Dear devs: do you realise that your content beta testers are not you average player? I beg you read

BXR_Lonestar

I disagree with you to a point. I feel like what motivated the OP to make this post was his frustrations with the Endless Archive and its difficulty, and I don't share the same sentiment. I think it offers a good, scaling challenge that offers better and better rewards the longer you are able to stay in there. It starts out easy, but then it gets more difficult the longer you play. Ironically, more well-rounded characters tend to do better than those skewed for pure DPS, so there is no emphasis on fast, button-twitchy DPS rotations. To succeed, all you need to do is learn the mechanics.

However, Zos/Bethesda has made content that I think is not meant for solo/super casual players to pass in the overland. Specifically, the dragons that take the place of anchors in Elsewyr and the Harrowstorms in Western Skyrim can be HELL to complete, regardless of skill level, unless you have numbers on your side. They were great pieces of content when those areas were heavily populated, but now, if you want to kill dragons for a particular drop, good luck unless you form your own large hunting party. But to be fair, Zos seems to have conceded this issue and the content that has come after is easier to complete on your own (Vents in Galen, Oblivion Portals in Blackwood). So I do see that they are trying to find the right balance.

grewkshd

also you have yet again aimed to please the above average player base which btw is not as huge as your average player base.,why?

This is something many ESO players do not understand, and I also completely disagree with the comment. We're given quests+story pretty much every single update, the casual/questing players are the ones who are the source of the created content time and time again.
In fact it's because individuals such as yourself have been the target audience for so long, as to why the "above average player base" is not as "huge as your average player base".

I personally think Endless Archive, specifically Solo, has many flaws, but after playing it a few times as a duo, even with random players in the group finder, it becomes far more straight forward and appears more balanced....And the content being duo was the exact intention, so it's no surprise it feels better.

CGPsaint

grewkshd wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

arc 1 is normal mode

arc 4 is considered vet

anything past arc 4 is basically vet hard mode

Arc 1 is overland difficulty at best, and higher Arcs are considerably easier if you get the right Visions. RNG is going to play a huge factor in how far you're able to progress per run.

That's just not true, and the biggest problem with Endless Archive, no matter what visions you collect, Arc 5 is always harder than Arc 1.

This is because visions do not scale, whereas enemies do. Even if you could hand pick every vision, I'd guess it's technically impossible to get to Arc 15 solo right now...That's a problem for an 'Endless mode'.

The visions that deal X amount of damage do scale as you progress through the Arcs, whereas flat value Visions do not. Arc 1 is 100% able to be completed with zero Verses and Visions, whereas poor RNG in regards to which Visions you get will absolutely kill a deep run. You can literally finish the first Arc using nothing more than heavy attacks. Keep your heals up, block heavy attacks, prioritize which enemies need to die first, and you'll be fine. Tho'at is the only real challenge in Arc 1 but that fight just boils down to mechanics. Don't attack when he summons his mirrors. Don't stand in AOEs. Block heavy attacks. Kill adds. Rinse and repeat.

Making a point using Arc 5 vs Arc 15 doesn't make any sense. Arc 5 is not a cakewalk, but it can be done if you if RNG blesses you. I just finished a run where I died on the final Tho'at fight in Arc 4. Of the 19 Visions that I had active, only 4 of them were specific to a Magicka build. Getting XP, Gold, Pet Damage, Stamina, Martial Damage and other non-Magicka based Visions is ESO RNG at it's finest. I had exactly 1 Focused and ZERO Penetration or Crit Visions. In this case, more damage would have led to shorter fights which would have been much easier to sustain. As is, it was an unenjoyable slog, and one that I'm not likely to repeat regularly.

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

arc 1 is normal mode

arc 4 is considered vet

anything past arc 4 is basically vet hard mode

Arc 1 is overland difficulty at best, and higher Arcs are considerably easier if you get the right Visions. RNG is going to play a huge factor in how far you're able to progress per run.

The comment about "overland difficulty at best" comes across as insulting and dismissive, in light of two basic facts-- (1) vet players are constantly complaining that overland content is too easy and begging for some kind of difficulty setting or slider so they can make overland content more challenging for themselves; and (2) "overland content" is an incredibly broad topic that covers everything from daggerbacks and pony guars to the most difficult world bosses in the game.

Even world bosses overall vary considerably in difficulty from one to another, so saying something like "world boss difficulty at best" would beg the obvious question, "WHICH world boss(es)?" Maybe you didn't intend for that comment to come across as insulting and dismissive, but hopefully you see my point. WHICH overland content's difficulty does arc 1 correspond to, exactly? And how does comparing arc 1 to "overland" at all serve a useful purpose in the first place, given the manner in which some vet players tend to throw around the term "overland" to mean something they can burn through without the slightest effort on their part-- I think one description I've seen a few times is that "world bosses fall over dead if you just look at them." Note, I'm not trying to complain about your comment, just trying to help you see how it could come across to some players as a sort of putdown.

Speaking for myself, I don't care whether EA stays as-is forever, gets nerfed, gets buffed, gets savepoints or skips added to it, never gets savepoints or skips added to it, etc. I'll still play it every so often and get as far as I can-- which so far has been up to, but not beyond, the first Tho'at Replicanum, and usually not even beyond the third or fourth cycle boss. When I get killed, I'll leave and go do something else. I've been having fun fighting the mobs and cycle bosses, and I have no burning desire to get any of the new class set gear-- especially not for my Sorc main-- and I'm content to acquire whatever Archival Fortunes I can. Grinding isn't something I've ever been interested in, and rewards have always been secondary to me. Fun is what it's all about for me. I sometimes ride a circuit around Northern Elsweyr and solo all six world bosses, just for fun. Once upon a time I was not able to solo a single one of them, and just avoided them entirely for that reason; but now that I can solo them, I will do so just for the fun of it, regardless of whether I get any good "rewards" from them. Maybe one day I'll be able to get past the first Tho'at Replicanum and reach arc 2-- or maybe not-- but in the meantime I'm not going to grind EA to try to "master" it, or get hung up on my standing on a leaderboard, or complain about how hard or how easy or how unrewarding it is. It's good for a bit of fun, and when I inevitably get killed (usually sooner rather than later) there's still the entire rest of the game waiting for me to have fun in.

I understand what you're saying, and my comment is in no way meant to be insulting or dismissive. I am just not a fan of how ZOS implemented difficulty in EA, and to be frank they just flat out missed the mark on this one. Arc 1 feels a lot like base game overland content, and in no way prepares you for later Arcs, where the leap in difficulty from Arc 1 to Arc 2 (and beyond) is sure to be incredibly off-putting for more casual players. It's like finally being comfortable with normal DLC dungeons and then getting tossed into a vet hardmode. The first Arc should have been treated more like a tutorial, and the difficulty should have ramped up a bit slower across Arcs. Some end of cycle bosses are absolute pushovers, whereas others will just flat out punish you unless you're familiar with their mechanics. Marauders can and will 1-shot you starting in Arc 2. Marauder Gothmau is probably the most difficult boss in the game, and I'd personally rather solo both of the other Marauders at the same time rather than fight him alone.

I like the concept, but everything feels very cobbled together and lacking in cohesion. As mentioned before, once you progress beyond Arc 1, how far you get is going to be heavily dependent on getting the right Visions. Otherwise, this is just going to be yet another grind with poor rewards at the end.

Necrotech_Master

CGPsaint wrote: »

grewkshd wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

arc 1 is normal mode

arc 4 is considered vet

anything past arc 4 is basically vet hard mode

Arc 1 is overland difficulty at best, and higher Arcs are considerably easier if you get the right Visions. RNG is going to play a huge factor in how far you're able to progress per run.

That's just not true, and the biggest problem with Endless Archive, no matter what visions you collect, Arc 5 is always harder than Arc 1.

This is because visions do not scale, whereas enemies do. Even if you could hand pick every vision, I'd guess it's technically impossible to get to Arc 15 solo right now...That's a problem for an 'Endless mode'.

The visions that deal X amount of damage do scale as you progress through the Arcs, whereas flat value Visions do not. Arc 1 is 100% able to be completed with zero Verses and Visions, whereas poor RNG in regards to which Visions you get will absolutely kill a deep run. You can literally finish the first Arc using nothing more than heavy attacks. Keep your heals up, block heavy attacks, prioritize which enemies need to die first, and you'll be fine. Tho'at is the only real challenge in Arc 1 but that fight just boils down to mechanics. Don't attack when he summons his mirrors. Don't stand in AOEs. Block heavy attacks. Kill adds. Rinse and repeat.

Making a point using Arc 5 vs Arc 15 doesn't make any sense. Arc 5 is not a cakewalk, but it can be done if you if RNG blesses you. I just finished a run where I died on the final Tho'at fight in Arc 4. Of the 19 Visions that I had active, only 4 of them were specific to a Magicka build. Getting XP, Gold, Pet Damage, Stamina, Martial Damage and other non-Magicka based Visions is ESO RNG at it's finest. I had exactly 1 Focused and ZERO Penetration or Crit Visions. In this case, more damage would have led to shorter fights which would have been much easier to sustain. As is, it was an unenjoyable slog, and one that I'm not likely to repeat regularly.

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

arc 1 is normal mode

arc 4 is considered vet

anything past arc 4 is basically vet hard mode

Arc 1 is overland difficulty at best, and higher Arcs are considerably easier if you get the right Visions. RNG is going to play a huge factor in how far you're able to progress per run.

The comment about "overland difficulty at best" comes across as insulting and dismissive, in light of two basic facts-- (1) vet players are constantly complaining that overland content is too easy and begging for some kind of difficulty setting or slider so they can make overland content more challenging for themselves; and (2) "overland content" is an incredibly broad topic that covers everything from daggerbacks and pony guars to the most difficult world bosses in the game.

Even world bosses overall vary considerably in difficulty from one to another, so saying something like "world boss difficulty at best" would beg the obvious question, "WHICH world boss(es)?" Maybe you didn't intend for that comment to come across as insulting and dismissive, but hopefully you see my point. WHICH overland content's difficulty does arc 1 correspond to, exactly? And how does comparing arc 1 to "overland" at all serve a useful purpose in the first place, given the manner in which some vet players tend to throw around the term "overland" to mean something they can burn through without the slightest effort on their part-- I think one description I've seen a few times is that "world bosses fall over dead if you just look at them." Note, I'm not trying to complain about your comment, just trying to help you see how it could come across to some players as a sort of putdown.

Speaking for myself, I don't care whether EA stays as-is forever, gets nerfed, gets buffed, gets savepoints or skips added to it, never gets savepoints or skips added to it, etc. I'll still play it every so often and get as far as I can-- which so far has been up to, but not beyond, the first Tho'at Replicanum, and usually not even beyond the third or fourth cycle boss. When I get killed, I'll leave and go do something else. I've been having fun fighting the mobs and cycle bosses, and I have no burning desire to get any of the new class set gear-- especially not for my Sorc main-- and I'm content to acquire whatever Archival Fortunes I can. Grinding isn't something I've ever been interested in, and rewards have always been secondary to me. Fun is what it's all about for me. I sometimes ride a circuit around Northern Elsweyr and solo all six world bosses, just for fun. Once upon a time I was not able to solo a single one of them, and just avoided them entirely for that reason; but now that I can solo them, I will do so just for the fun of it, regardless of whether I get any good "rewards" from them. Maybe one day I'll be able to get past the first Tho'at Replicanum and reach arc 2-- or maybe not-- but in the meantime I'm not going to grind EA to try to "master" it, or get hung up on my standing on a leaderboard, or complain about how hard or how easy or how unrewarding it is. It's good for a bit of fun, and when I inevitably get killed (usually sooner rather than later) there's still the entire rest of the game waiting for me to have fun in.

I understand what you're saying, and my comment is in no way meant to be insulting or dismissive. I am just not a fan of how ZOS implemented difficulty in EA, and to be frank they just flat out missed the mark on this one. Arc 1 feels a lot like base game overland content, and in no way prepares you for later Arcs, where the leap in difficulty from Arc 1 to Arc 2 (and beyond) is sure to be incredibly off-putting for more casual players. It's like finally being comfortable with normal DLC dungeons and then getting tossed into a vet hardmode. The first Arc should have been treated more like a tutorial, and the difficulty should have ramped up a bit slower across Arcs. Some end of cycle bosses are absolute pushovers, whereas others will just flat out punish you unless you're familiar with their mechanics. Marauders can and will 1-shot you starting in Arc 2. Marauder Gothmau is probably the most difficult boss in the game, and I'd personally rather solo both of the other Marauders at the same time rather than fight him alone.

I like the concept, but everything feels very cobbled together and lacking in cohesion. As mentioned before, once you progress beyond Arc 1, how far you get is going to be heavily dependent on getting the right Visions. Otherwise, this is just going to be yet another grind with poor rewards at the end.

i feel like the difficulty ramps up pretty linearly

the furthest ive been able to get is arc 9, and i feel that overall it ramps up pretty consistently

i do agree though that without the right visions, those later arcs do become a slog because of the massive health boosts the enemies get if your low on dmg

i felt like arcs 1 and 2 were pretty easy, 3 is where stuff starts to get more difficulty as in you cant completely ignore the elite enemies/fabled, and arc 4 is usually where i end a run if im on a pure dps character because of the incoming dmg (while on my tank i dont feel like anything except marauders gets difficulty until at least arc 6-7)

CGPsaint

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i feel like the difficulty ramps up pretty linearly

the furthest ive been able to get is arc 9, and i feel that overall it ramps up pretty consistently

i do agree though that without the right visions, those later arcs do become a slog because of the massive health boosts the enemies get if your low on dmg

i felt like arcs 1 and 2 were pretty easy, 3 is where stuff starts to get more difficulty as in you cant completely ignore the elite enemies/fabled, and arc 4 is usually where i end a run if im on a pure dps character because of the incoming dmg (while on my tank i dont feel like anything except marauders gets difficulty until at least arc 6-7)

Arc 4 onward seems to be the point where I feel the difficulty starts to ramp up in a more linear fashion, which you can see as the enemy health bars and incoming damage both start growing rapidly arc over arc. I feel like marauders not named Gothmau are fairly manageable solo up through Arc 4, and were manageable on my tank through Arc 8. After that, all bets are off and having Magma ready is advisable.

Necrotech_Master

CGPsaint wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i feel like the difficulty ramps up pretty linearly

the furthest ive been able to get is arc 9, and i feel that overall it ramps up pretty consistently

i do agree though that without the right visions, those later arcs do become a slog because of the massive health boosts the enemies get if your low on dmg

i felt like arcs 1 and 2 were pretty easy, 3 is where stuff starts to get more difficulty as in you cant completely ignore the elite enemies/fabled, and arc 4 is usually where i end a run if im on a pure dps character because of the incoming dmg (while on my tank i dont feel like anything except marauders gets difficulty until at least arc 6-7)

Arc 4 onward seems to be the point where I feel the difficulty starts to ramp up in a more linear fashion, which you can see as the enemy health bars and incoming damage both start growing rapidly arc over arc. I feel like marauders not named Gothmau are fairly manageable solo up through Arc 4, and were manageable on my tank through Arc 8. After that, all bets are off and having Magma ready is advisable.

yeah, the fire marauder is definitely a problem even early on, i have trouble tanking that one even at arc 3 (i usually still kite it, but have enough heals to get through, but its not fun)

it would certainly help if they removed his bleed that he applied on a light attack

i saw you comment in the other thread, but using stuff like alessias bulwark (-350 weapon/spell dmg to melee attackers), and weakening enchantments can make him a ton more manageable