Endless Archive - Please add Save Progress

tomofhyrule

While I understand the people who would like the ability to save, I do see that the original idea of this was an endurance test... and that's kind of how the devs designed it. They were going for the old school Nintendo-hard version of go-as-long-as-you-can.

I mean, if someone was running a marathon and then stopped at mile 20 and told the organizers "yeah, I'm tired so I'm coming back tomorrow to finish it," that's patently ridiculous.

I don't know what the real answer is here - I can see why it's impossible for a large part of the playerbase to run long (believe me: I play a tank, so my runs are about 2-3 times as long as my friends' runs, and I'm getting bored around hour 3 or 4 in there), but the entire thing is set up as something you need to do in one sitting. Skipping right to a specific Arc or stopping and coming back to it are by nature going against the design of the place.

Zabagad

Billium813 wrote: »

I see no reason for Endless Archive to add progress saves

I think the only reason players are asking for this is because the first 3-4 Arcs are too easy. We need a Veteran mode that starts off at Arc 6.

I see reasons for Endless Archive to add progress saves

It's a sad thing that you can't think outside your own box and come up with the idea that there could be other reasons.

I don't want to ruin your perfect world and therefore don't want to describe my personal problems in too much detail.
But I haven't been to the EA once, because I no longer have the time management like I had when I was a student.

Unfortunately, I can't guarantee that I can disappear from my RL for the next X hours and it's always possible that I suddenly have to leave the game for 5, 10 or even 15+ minutes.
That's one reason why I avoid longer group play and therefore almost never run trials.
As I said - I don't want to go into details, but this would force me to give up progressing Y time, or violate the TOS of ZOS.

Therefore, as a fairly decent solo player, I will only enter the EA when I know that I can save if I need to.

patricknl76

Just make it save like Maelstrom . When you leave you can start at the same arc or if you want you can reset it . But the moment you decide to leave EA , it doesnt count for leaderboard anymore. So if you want leaderboard then you have to do it in one run . I think that everybody would be happy that way.

Lugaldu

tomofhyrule wrote: »

While I understand the people who would like the ability to save, I do see that the original idea of this was an endurance test... and that's kind of how the devs designed it. They were going for the old school Nintendo-hard version of go-as-long-as-you-can.

I mean, if someone was running a marathon and then stopped at mile 20 and told the organizers "yeah, I'm tired so I'm coming back tomorrow to finish it," that's patently ridiculous.

That's a completely unfitting comparison to the marathon. In a marathon I know in advance that I have to do 42 km and no more. The top runners can do it in 2 hours, the weaker amateurs in 5 hours. You can prepare for this and plan for it. With EA, the end of the "endurance test" cannot be foreseen and is also influenced by external factors such as an interruption in the Internet connection or a kick from the server and these factors must not influence the progress. Aside from the fact that the whole concept is completely unhealthy, gaming to the point of collapse to get to the top of the leaderboard...

FantasticFreddie

Billium813 wrote: »

I see no reason for Endless Archive to add progress saves

I think the only reason players are asking for this is because the first 3-4 Arcs are too easy. We need a Veteran mode that starts off at Arc 6.

Several people, myself included, have encountered crashes or run-ending bugs that force us to lose our progress and restart the archive

That ALONE should be enough to warrent frequent save points.

Billium813

Zabagad wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

I see no reason for Endless Archive to add progress saves

I think the only reason players are asking for this is because the first 3-4 Arcs are too easy. We need a Veteran mode that starts off at Arc 6.

I don't want to ruin your perfect world and therefore don't want to describe my personal problems in too much detail.
But I haven't been to the EA once, because I no longer have the time management like I had when I was a student.

Come back when you don't have excuses and when you get some real experience with the content you have such a strong opinion about. You're judging it before even experiencing it! You want me to open my mind to more possibilities, but you're so narrow minded that you've formed a conclusion at a glance and can't see the underlying problem.

Billium813

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

I see no reason for Endless Archive to add progress saves

I think the only reason players are asking for this is because the first 3-4 Arcs are too easy. We need a Veteran mode that starts off at Arc 6.

Several people, myself included, have encountered crashes or run-ending bugs that force us to lose our progress and restart the archive

That ALONE should be enough to warrent frequent save points.

1. I see crashes and progression saves as completely different issues. I understand that some players see them as the same issue, but they really aren't. You're struggling to find a bandage for your issue and you have lassoed your problem to this "Save Progression" topic in hopes that 1 rock will kill 2 birds. That doesn't make it a good idea.

2. I completely agree that there should be mechanic to prevent game crashes from ending runs. However, that should not be an open ended mechanic that now players can use to save progress independently of the game f'n up. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Braffin

Billium813 wrote: »

I see no reason for Endless Archive to add progress saves

I think the only reason players are asking for this is because the first 3-4 Arcs are too easy. We need a Veteran mode that starts off at Arc 6.

I think there is place for both:

I agree with you, that more skilled players mainly ask for the ability to skip earlier Arcs, as they are simply a slog.

On the other hand, less experienced players could profit much from a proper save-function, even paired with the removal of limited threads. Imagine it as sort of training mode, enabling people to learn mechanics they're still unfamiliar with on their own pace.

All those additions would come with deactivation of leaderboards tho, but that's self-evident I assume.

Warhawke_80

You're going to have some kid who dosen't go to the bathroom or drink water dying on EA...the bad publicity will make them change it...I just don't know why they are waiting .

Rowjoh

Billium813 wrote: »

I see no reason for Endless Archive to add progress saves

I think the only reason players are asking for this is because the first 3-4 Arcs are too easy. We need a Veteran mode that starts off at Arc 6.

Imagine and hour or two in and there's a crash and you lose all your hard earned progress - thankfully ESO is 100% stable and never crashes.

Sarannah

I'm not against a save progress function, as long as losing all threads means that player is out/the run is ended. But I am against being able to start at higher stages. As that would allow those players to gain an unfair amount of currency. And defeats the entire purpose of the endless archive, which is seeing how far you can get in one run. By bypassing lower arcs these players would also bypass screw ups and tough random boss encounters, by default.

Personally I wouldn't want fewer cycles, as that would mean less currency drops, fewer unknown encounters, and fewer fun bosses to test our strenght against. Five feels right to me.

PS: Saving runs probably means quite a bit of data saving, so I doubt ZOS will ever allow this.

valenwood_vegan

I know that I should probably just git gud, but honestly a lot of people aren't looking to run this uber-competitively and a lot of people live in a real world where gaming is not the top priority and any number of responsibilities start to cut into gaming time, or can bring a surprise end to a gaming session.

Some way of saving progress for a run would make EA appeal to a much wider audience, without affecting the competitive leaderboard pushing folks in any way. (EDIT to add: If this is really NEVER going to happen, an alternative would be allowing folks to jump ahead to start in a later arc that they've already completed, so they can get right to the fun part).

I would think this would be a good thing, because if they put all of this effort into the archive with the goal of adding long-term repeatable content... and it turns into just like 50 ultra-competitive people running it long-term, that seems like a problem to me. This game has to grow and make money to survive, and to do that it has to add things that appeal to a wide variety of players.

Now of course one could just write off the archive by saying it's for vets, and they deserve difficult content (and sure they do), but that sells the archive sort - it could engage a much wider variety of players with a better design that allows for competitive or non-competitive play. It's the only substantial content addition to the game since... when was Necrom... June? And there won't be any other content added for months. Players that get nothing new and engaging will leave and may not come back. In my opinion, of course.

Rowjoh

Sarannah wrote: »

PS: Saving runs probably means quite a bit of data saving, so I doubt ZOS will ever allow this.

Not really - save mechanic was introduced for vet MA and VH launched with it.

Aside from the total frustration of crashing during a run and losing all progress, its important to take regular breaks and gaming companies have a responsibility to warn against playing without taking breaks, so it beggars belief that the same save mech hasn't been included in EA, which it easily could and should have been.

Sarannah

Rowjoh wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

PS: Saving runs probably means quite a bit of data saving, so I doubt ZOS will ever allow this.

Not really - save mechanic was introduced for vet MA and VH launched with it.

Aside from the total frustration of crashing during a run and losing all progress, its important to take regular breaks and gaming companies have a responsibility to warn against playing without taking breaks, so it beggars belief that the same save mech hasn't been included in EA, which it easily could and should have been.

There is a major difference between those arena's and this one. In every other arena the mobs and bosses are static(always the same), while in the EA the bosses and mobs differ every run. Without saving an incomplete run on the servers, players could abuse a saved run to keep relogging just to get easy random bosses to progress easier. Not to mention random player buffs, visions and verses would have to be saved too.

PS: Side question: What is the EA actually? And does gear/buffs that affects damage done to and damage reduced by dungeon/trial/arena monsters affect the EA too? As technically it is none of those.

Zabagad

Sarannah wrote: »

Without saving an incomplete run on the servers, players could abuse a saved run to keep relogging just to get easy random bosses to progress easier. Not to mention random player buffs, visions and verses would have to be saved too.

I don't know if you have the wrong idea about the way of the save, or if it's me?
I (and I guess the majority - if not all) am not asking for a save in the sense of a single player game that you can reload again and again.
Instead I hope for a save that only acts like a long break. And for sure this save can only be done at some points and not right before a boss fight.
And I guess almost everybody is only asking for a save which can only be loaded once.

Visions and verses are a special question.
I don't know how many different of them exist and if it's possible to save them easily?
If it's possible in a list of integer (numbers) it wouldn't be a big deal - otherwise I would even accept a save without them.

As many already said - the duo mode could be a bit more tricky, but I guess with a lot of restrictions (both players with the same char only) it should be possible too.

Rowjoh

Sarannah wrote: »

There is a major difference between those arena's and this one. In every other arena the mobs and bosses are static(always the same), while in the EA the bosses and mobs differ every run. Without saving an incomplete run on the servers, players could abuse a saved run to keep relogging just to get easy random bosses to progress easier. Not to mention random player buffs, visions and verses would have to be saved too.

PS: Side question: What is the EA actually? And does gear/buffs that affects damage done to and damage reduced by dungeon/trial/arena monsters affect the EA too? As technically it is none of those.

not really - what the vast majority are asking for, is for the game to automatically save progress (resume at the beginning of the level you last played when you logged off or crashed) exactly the same as the other vet arenas - I'm reliably informed that this wouldn't pose a capacity problem for ZoS at all, especially as the servers have been upgraded recently. And technically it's straightforward.

FantasticFreddie

Sarannah wrote: »

I'm not against a save progress function, as long as losing all threads means that player is out/the run is ended. But I am against being able to start at higher stages. As that would allow those players to gain an unfair amount of currency. And defeats the entire purpose of the endless archive, which is seeing how far you can get in one run. By bypassing lower arcs these players would also bypass screw ups and tough random boss encounters, by default.

Personally I wouldn't want fewer cycles, as that would mean less currency drops, fewer unknown encounters, and fewer fun bosses to test our strenght against. Five feels right to me.

PS: Saving runs probably means quite a bit of data saving, so I doubt ZOS will ever allow this.

This is already a function in the game. Both solo arenas allow you to to stop and come back to the same place you left off.

Sakiri

Lugaldu wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Though it woulnt be too much to have some kind of grace period like 5-10 min when crashing.

They say there´s a 5 min grace period, but 5 min is nothing when you suddenly lost internet connection, have to make a restart of your computer or got kicked due to inactivity because you went in the kitchen to get yourself a drink!

It takes you more than 15 minutes to get a drink?

My computer restarts in less than 30s.

Rowjoh

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

This is already a function in the game. Both solo arenas allow you to to stop and come back to the same place you left off.

Yep, except you will respawn at the beginning of the level you last played, so for example if you left just before a boss, you'll have to play that level again to get back to the boss. Small price to pay though!

Sirona_Starr

Instead of saving they could just drop the threads. Super annoying, those threads.

Rowjoh

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

Instead of saving they could just drop the threads. Super annoying, those threads.

Not sure that solves it.

Plenty of players reaching points where they can't progress/coming up against a brick wall then having to quit or indeed crashing then having to start all over again.

A save mechanic is what the vast majority need to make this bore fest a little less tedious.

Ishtarknows

Rowjoh wrote: »

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

Torghast in another game never had a 'save progress' option. Nor should this one. It is an MMO, there is no 'save progress'.

Incorrect.

Vateshran Hollows and Maelstrom Arena both have save mechanics.

Vateshran Hollows and Maelstrom Arena are both SOLO arenas. There's no save option for Dragonstar Arena or Blackrose Prison.

LouisaB75

I can't help but wonder if those who are so adamantly against a save progress option would feel the same way if they were having their best run ever only to get kicked from the server and lose it all.

katanagirl1

The save seems reasonable since you have only three lives. If it were truly infinite then saving would not make sense.

Ph1p

tomofhyrule wrote: »

While I understand the people who would like the ability to save, I do see that the original idea of this was an endurance test... and that's kind of how the devs designed it. They were going for the old school Nintendo-hard version of go-as-long-as-you-can.

I mean, if someone was running a marathon and then stopped at mile 20 and told the organizers "yeah, I'm tired so I'm coming back tomorrow to finish it," that's patently ridiculous.

I think it would make sense to have a save option to start from where you paused, while you still had lives/threads left. To me, these threads are the endurance factor, not how long you can stay up past midnight to continue. Plus, losing progress due to crashes or other external factors is simply too frustrating.

You have a point with the marathon comparison, though, which is why leaderboard progress should stop once a save is used. But I think the EA right now is more like a multi-day pilgrimage, where you get teleported back to your hometown if you fall asleep at night.

Nilandia

Sarannah wrote: »

PS: Side question: What is the EA actually? And does gear/buffs that affects damage done to and damage reduced by dungeon/trial/arena monsters affect the EA too? As technically it is none of those.

Minor slayer works in the archive. I haven't tested it, but I would imagine minor aegis does as well.

Four_Fingers

The slight gotcha with saving is EA is built for 2 players and would have to save for both.
So what happens if one player is not available when you reload?
A little different than solo arenas.

Elyu

Similar to a post from another thread, but I'll repeat it here:

Second the sentiment expressed in this thread, there needs an option either to save the progress of your run, or the ability to enter 'checkpoints' - say if you have completed arc 4, you can start at arc 4 in future.

As to how this will affect leaderboards, a few options; either you have to have at least 1 thread remaining to be ranked, or you have to start from the beginning (arc 1) or even a manual option to play a ranked or non-ranked.

Lugaldu

Sakiri wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Though it woulnt be too much to have some kind of grace period like 5-10 min when crashing.

They say there´s a 5 min grace period, but 5 min is nothing when you suddenly lost internet connection, have to make a restart of your computer or got kicked due to inactivity because you went in the kitchen to get yourself a drink!

It takes you more than 15 minutes to get a drink?

My computer restarts in less than 30s.

Good if your PC restarts in 30 seconds. But I already described my experience in the OP that I was back in the game after about 6 minutes after the internet connection crashed and this already led to a "back to 0". There was nothing like a 15 min. grace period. And it also already happened many times that the game kicked me out after being afk for 2-3 min...

Rowjoh

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Vateshran Hollows and Maelstrom Arena are both SOLO arenas. There's no save option for Dragonstar Arena or Blackrose Prison.

Endless Archive is also a SOLO arena. It is a 2-man arena as well, but 2 players isn't considered a 'group'.

Dragonstar Arena and Blackrose Prison is 4 man group content and as such only takes a half decent group about an hour to complete at most, so not really surprising there is no save mechanic for those.