The DK Class Set is the Single Most Overpowered Set Ever Created

WrathOfInnos

The 5 piece bonus gives 2.66 ult per second and cannot be combined with other sources of minor heroism. In reality it will be less given the front bar condition, and I’m expecting to see ~2 ult/s.

Compare that to other sets:
- Bloodspawn can theoretically approach 2.6 ult/s with a lot of small DoT ticks on you, however in practice it caps out more like 1.5-2
- Arkasis generates 1 to 1.5 ult/s to the user and 3.9 to 5.9 ult/s in a group of 4 (depending on potion cooldown)
- Dead-Water’s Guile is hard to put a number on, but it gives a ton of ultimate in solo PVE content like arenas
- Disciplined Slash generates 8-12 ult/s in the final 1/3 of a fight, averaging roughly 3 ult/s
- Drake’s Rush gives 1.33 ult/s to a group of 4, totaling 5.33 ult/s
- Pearl’s of Ehlnofey can reach 3 ult/s, but realistically is closer to 2-2.5
- Pillager’s Profit can reach extraordinary numbers with the right build, giving 11 players 1.4 ult/s, or generating up 15 ult/s total

The only thing that makes Basalt-Blooded unique is it's ease of use (nothing to track, it just works), and ability to be used effectively on a solo build (doesn't shine only when buffing others). At first impressions, I'm not opposed to this set existing.

Urzigurumash

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

danko355 wrote: »

I disagree

Found the DK main.

DK mains actually know this set is not as OP as everyone makes it to look. It's strong yes but not some G god OP mode mode or strongesr in the history like some people are claiming. High ulti gen and high healing playstyle is already present in the game and was possible since quite some time with daedric trickery and heroism pots or with someone in a group using drake's rush set. This set is not bringing anything that wasn't existing already.

Wait so using your logic, this is all okay because this combination of highly sought after bonuses for DKs was already obtainable, except now it's even easier on 1 set instead of multiple sources..

1. Don't need to use a specific potion, you can earn other bonuses.
2. The back bar bonuses are unnamed, so they stack with named healing buffs.
3. Daedric Trickery is strong, but it has inconsistency built into it due to the random nature of it. It's strongest point was the major heroism, which is now guaranteed on this new set.
4. Daedric Trickery has bad 2-4 piece bonuses.
5. You can't stack the front and back bar bonuses, but it doesn't really matter because they do what you need when you need them most. Front bar offense, back bar defence. This is one of the reasons sets like Heartland Conquerer were popular, they are both perfect for pvp as a 2 for 1 set.

Admittedly I haven't played for a long time, so maybe I'm wrong, but it seems pretty obviously 1 of the stronger sets offering the most sought after bonuses DK chase in a set that can be slotted on 1 bar, yet work on both bars with different effects for when you need them most at 100% uptime. Heartland Conquerer at least had to be slotted on front/back. Daedric Trickery is random. Potions are potions.

Well it's better to have Ult Gen stacked on the backbar if you're going to 1 bar it usually, because Ult Gen isn't actually offense in itself you know? That changes majorly if you're in perma-Corrosive spamming Titanic Cleave, but outside of that, usually you want Ult Gen ticking when you're kiting or turtling more than when using direct damage skills.

Whether this set is the most efficient source of the Heroism buffs, the best thing to run on a maximally efficient 1vX DK, or the best thing to enable perma-Corrosive seems hard to say without knowing:

1. The cooldown begins counting down on activation of Molten Stance, not expiration, right?
2. Is the frontbar/backbar thing just determined by the Main and Backup weapon slots in your inventory?

In other words can you slot a Decisive Ice Staff, swap to that bar, activate Molten Stance, and then swap back to a Nirnhoned 2h/DW bar (or Sharpened if using Leap) with your Direct Damage skills slotted, then swap back immediately upon expiration of Molten Stance and refresh it?

If so then I think I agree with the title of this thread. If not you're better off with Drakes Rush and Heroism Pots.

Right?

boi_anachronism_

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

The 5 piece bonus gives 2.66 ult per second and cannot be combined with other sources of minor heroism. In reality it will be less given the front bar condition, and I’m expecting to see ~2 ult/s.

Compare that to other sets:
- Bloodspawn can theoretically approach 2.6 ult/s with a lot of small DoT ticks on you, however in practice it caps out more like 1.5-2
- Arkasis generates 1 to 1.5 ult/s to the user and 3.9 to 5.9 ult/s in a group of 4 (depending on potion cooldown)
- Dead-Water’s Guile is hard to put a number on, but it gives a ton of ultimate in solo PVE content like arenas
- Disciplined Slash generates 8-12 ult/s in the final 1/3 of a fight, averaging roughly 3 ult/s
- Drake’s Rush gives 1.33 ult/s to a group of 4, totaling 5.33 ult/s
- Pearl’s of Ehlnofey can reach 3 ult/s, but realistically is closer to 2-2.5
- Pillager’s Profit can reach extraordinary numbers with the right build, giving 11 players 1.4 ult/s, or generating up 15 ult/s total

The only thing that makes Basalt-Blooded unique is it's ease of use (nothing to track, it just works), and ability to be used effectively on a solo build (doesn't shine only when buffing others). At first impressions, I'm not opposed to this set existing.

Your forgetting something major. The back bar. You are given a fantastic defensive back bar stacked with healing while being able to freely swap to your front bar automatically swapping to your herosim buff. It has no cooldown. It has no downsides. There is no kiss-curse situation here. The conditions are effectively nonexistent unlike the other sets listed where you have a specific build and conditions to make it work. Additionally it comes in all weights making it easily to use with a variety of other sets.

Tyrant_Tim

On paper, the set isn’t bad. If you were to throw it any other class it would be fine. It’s just when you couple it with Corrosive, keeping in mind that you get ult while in the ultimate, it’s a problem.

I’m a firm believer that Corrosive Armor should be Corrosive Weapons or Corrosive Armaments, and there should be no mitigation whatsoever on that morph. It’s bad enough that Battle Roar heals you and restores both resources every time you ult.

Lena_HJ

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Do you know how many years I have WAITED for dk healer to be top tier trials healer

Well... HPS wise DK was top tier since I remember (Major Mending with push of the button, no need for lame heavy attacks like other classes) and backbar free to apply touch of Z'en, keep up Martial Knowledge or Alkosh. Insanely fast rotations, tons of fun. The class specific healing abilities are kinda trash though and I never used them, just sticked to resto, orbs and Echoing Vigor if needed.

But what can I say, I got lucky to play with open minded people who had more creativity to go outside the usual DK+Necro tank Warden + NB healer group combo.

(Civi, you are probably not reading this but thank you for letting me try )

I am not hyped for the set itself, but so so happy to see Flames of Oblivion providing the buff when slotted on one of the bars, yaaay!

VinnyGambini

Dekrypted wrote: »

Already tested fighting against this set on pts. 100% like the old oakensoul days of perma corrosive.

What a "great idea". Atleast back during pre-nerf oakensoul, everyone had access to oaken (that had the chapter) and had the chance to be op. Put on sea serpent with this set and you're halfway back to the mythic... the mythic everyone bought a chapter for only to have it nerfed 3 months later...

This is only valuable post. Guy already tested it, and tell us how ridiclously OP it is.

fred4

My first instinct, speaking for PvP, was as per the title of this thread. The comparison with at-launch-Oakensoul, and the meta that followed, immediately came to mind.

That said, this is a 5-piece set that needs to be double-barred for full effect and won't have full uptime due to bar swapping. Might it simply have the same uptime as front-barring, say, Drake's Rush and using Minor Heroism potions? Might it be somewhat comparable to Trickery?

The set is a shoe-in for PvP DK, so much so that I can see every DK wearing it for a while. It's more affordable (once farmed) than Minor Heroism potions and should be more consistent than Trickery. That may count for a lot. Compared to Oakensoul it will allow combining with another mythic.

I still don't know how to weigh that it's a double-barred 5-piece set. I don't wish to equate it with Heartland Conqueror in terms of power, but how many people still wear that outside of no CP?

It will probably best combine with Bloodspawn, a mythic, and either two arena weapons or Potentates / Agility / Willpower. That only leaves room for some Trainee to round out the build.

TL;DR: Oakensoul was a mythic that could be combined with two other ult-gen or cost reduction sets, Bloodspawn, and the potions. This isn't the case here. The real problem may only come when ZOS introduce an ult-gen mythic that isn't Pearls of Ehlnofey.

P.S. Corrosive, but not Magma Shell, could probably do with a cost increase to 250, or as someone else suggested no ult gen while active, one way or the other.

boi_anachronism_

Dekrypted wrote: »

Already tested fighting against this set on pts. 100% like the old oakensoul days of perma corrosive.

What a "great idea". Atleast back during pre-nerf oakensoul, everyone had access to oaken (that had the chapter) and had the chance to be op. Put on sea serpent with this set and you're halfway back to the mythic... the mythic everyone bought a chapter for only to have it nerfed 3 months later...

If this goes live im not pvping again till they fix it. Period.

Jierdanit

fred4 wrote: »

My first instinct, speaking for PvP, was as per the title of this thread. The comparison with at-launch-Oakensoul, and the meta that followed, immediately came to mind.

That said, this is a 5-piece set that needs to be double-barred for full effect and won't have full uptime due to bar swapping. Might it simply have the same uptime as front-barring, say, Drake's Rush and using Minor Heroism potions? Might it be somewhat comparable to Trickery?

The set is a shoe-in for PvP DK, so much so that I can see every DK wearing it for a while. It's more affordable (once farmed) than Minor Heroism potions and should be more consistent than Trickery. That may count for a lot. Compared to Oakensoul it will allow combining with another mythic.

I still don't know how to weigh that it's a double-barred 5-piece set. I don't wish to equate it with Heartland Conqueror in terms of power, but how many people still wear that outside of no CP?

It will probably best combine with Bloodspawn, a mythic, and either two arena weapons or Potentates / Agility / Willpower. That only leaves room for some Trainee to round out the build.

TL;DR: Oakensoul was a mythic that could be combined with two other ult-gen or cost reduction sets, Bloodspawn, and the potions. This isn't the case here. The real problem may only come when ZOS introduce an ult-gen mythic that isn't Pearls of Ehlnofey.

P.S. Corrosive, but not Magma Shell, could probably do with a cost increase to 250, or as someone else suggested no ult gen while active, one way or the other.

You dont need to double bar it.

If you have it on one bar and cast an earthen heart skill you get the buff for 20 seconds.
Currently you just get the buff from that bar though, no matter if you are on front or back bar, but im pretty sure that is not working as intended.
Otherwise everyone is just going to have the set front barred for actually permanent Heroism.

Tommy_The_Gun

Jierdanit wrote: »

You dont need to double bar it.

That is exactly how I would intend to use it on my DK. Why would I ever need another bar if I can have minor + major Heroism with 100% uptime + Decisive weapon and maybe other ulti gen set + mythic and just have Corrosive up all of the time ? With setup like this I can have max penetration for pretty much free and still be unkillable. The only drawback is that the only thing I won't be able to kill is other DK with same "always up" Corrosive... which I imagine there will be plenty.

Well in that sense they got it right balance wise lol. Every one will play same spec, same class, no one will be able to kill anyone and no one will die. No clear winner = balance

fxeconomisteb17_ESO

[snip]

We are trying to get something done. [snip] We lose the appetite and we leave until the next update.

The set is indeed more powerful than Heartland Conqueror, albeit marginally. However, as long as Immovable and its morphs continue to be a mockery 9 years since release, a non-blocking tank remains incompetent and cannot get a continuous ultimate stream.

[edited for baiting]

Major_Soulless

The Templar set takes half your magic for 25% damage buff on 2 skills maybe 3

This dk set creates super pvp machine how is this fair lol

boi_anachronism_

fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »

[snip]

We are trying to get something done. [snip] We lose the appetite and we leave until the next update.

The set is indeed more powerful than Heartland Conqueror, albeit marginally. However, as long as Immovable and its morphs continue to be a mockery 9 years since release, a non-blocking tank remains incompetent and cannot get a continuous ultimate stream.

So you see this as being on par with the other upcoming class sets available? Templar who needs 50 stacks? Nb who effectively loses incap to run their set? Necro that already had many of these buffs in its tool kit and is again relegated to a support role when it desperately needed a dps buff to make it viable as a full damage dps?

[edited to remove quote]

Four_Fingers

The other guy's set is always too powerful!

gariondavey

Four_Fingers wrote: »

The other guy's set is always too powerful!

If you look at the sets though you won't make that joke

fxeconomisteb17_ESO

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »

[snip]

We are trying to get something done. [snip] We lose the appetite and we leave until the next update.

The set is indeed more powerful than Heartland Conqueror, albeit marginally. However, as long as Immovable and its morphs continue to be a mockery 9 years since release, a non-blocking tank remains incompetent and cannot get a continuous ultimate stream.

So you see this as being on par with the other upcoming class sets available? Templar who needs 50 stacks? Nb who effectively loses incap to run their set? Necro that already had many of these buffs in its tool kit and is again relegated to a support role when it desperately needed a dps buff to make it viable as a full damage dps?

[edited to remove quote]

No, it's not on par. Certainly the best. To be honest I don't even play other than DK now. And when I began ESO, I did most content with my sorc, which has become my crafter main.

The two most special classes are DK and Nightblade. DK has the unique Magma to resist whatever comes at it. Nightblade is unique by invisibility. The other classes are in-between mish-mashes with more or less abilities to damage or to healing.

But Nightblades don't need ultimates for invisibility. Only Magicka. A lot of it, but only Magicka. Nightblades are functional as Nightblades out of the box. DKs, in order to become functional as DKs - not as general blockers as all classes can do - need to have functional Magma. That's what is made for.

It is imperative that DKs could reach a chaining level of Magma with a lot of investment. What you guys want is to be absolutely impossible. And I think ZOS is starting to understand their long fight to destroy tanking and keep DKs outside their functional level in order to get PVP streamers happy cannot be maintained anymore.

What could be on par with it ? A set that would restore a lot of the Magicka cost on Nightblade casting invisibility.
A set that could scale Radiant Destruction bonus damage from 100% target health, not from 50%.
And even so, many would just mumble that DKs are too strong.

sunshineflame

Dk set + bloodspawn + potentates + trainee + oakensoul

fred4

x

Jierdanit wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

My first instinct, speaking for PvP, was as per the title of this thread. The comparison with at-launch-Oakensoul, and the meta that followed, immediately came to mind.

That said, this is a 5-piece set that needs to be double-barred for full effect and won't have full uptime due to bar swapping. Might it simply have the same uptime as front-barring, say, Drake's Rush and using Minor Heroism potions? Might it be somewhat comparable to Trickery?

The set is a shoe-in for PvP DK, so much so that I can see every DK wearing it for a while. It's more affordable (once farmed) than Minor Heroism potions and should be more consistent than Trickery. That may count for a lot. Compared to Oakensoul it will allow combining with another mythic.

I still don't know how to weigh that it's a double-barred 5-piece set. I don't wish to equate it with Heartland Conqueror in terms of power, but how many people still wear that outside of no CP?

It will probably best combine with Bloodspawn, a mythic, and either two arena weapons or Potentates / Agility / Willpower. That only leaves room for some Trainee to round out the build.

TL;DR: Oakensoul was a mythic that could be combined with two other ult-gen or cost reduction sets, Bloodspawn, and the potions. This isn't the case here. The real problem may only come when ZOS introduce an ult-gen mythic that isn't Pearls of Ehlnofey.

P.S. Corrosive, but not Magma Shell, could probably do with a cost increase to 250, or as someone else suggested no ult gen while active, one way or the other.

You dont need to double bar it.

If you have it on one bar and cast an earthen heart skill you get the buff for 20 seconds.
Currently you just get the buff from that bar though, no matter if you are on front or back bar, but im pretty sure that is not working as intended.
Otherwise everyone is just going to have the set front barred for actually permanent Heroism.

Damn! If the buff carries, this is way OP. How does the game even work out what your front bar is? Couldn't you just put this and all your defensive skills on bar 1 for the heroism while making bar 2 your offensive bar?

Dr_Con

Time to change the game name to Dragon Knight Online.

TechMaybeHic

Yeah, I mean how fun would it be if everyone is taking only 3% of their health damage per attack while being able to heal 50% of their health... Yeah, would be totally fine to try to match every class an equivalent of full uptime corrosive armor /S

Gopher

Dekrypted wrote: »

Already tested fighting against this set on pts. 100% like the old oakensoul days of perma corrosive.

What a "great idea". Atleast back during pre-nerf oakensoul, everyone had access to oaken (that had the chapter) and had the chance to be op. Put on sea serpent with this set and you're halfway back to the mythic... the mythic everyone bought a chapter for only to have it nerfed 3 months later...

This reply will be mostly dueling / 1v1 focused, as it was the only setting we tested in.

I was the one who was helping Mr. Dekrypted here test fighting this set. As someone who enjoys a little bit of DK every now and again, I can wholeheartedly say that this set, as it currently is in PTS is entirely overtuned (putting it forum friendly)

Keep in mind that Dekrypted was using acuity on a templar, and built it in arguably one of the strongest ways (albeit not as strong because it's templar lol) that a plar can be built. Every time his acuity got off cooldown, I had more than enough ult to just corrosive and survive it all. In the 26 seconds in a seperate duel it took me to realize that I had forgotten to slot my champion points, I had gone from 0 ult to three-quarters of the way to being able to pop corrosive.

Building off of what Dekrypted said, at least in the Oakensoul days everyone who had the DLC was able to use this item and reap some sort of benefit from it. Why on earth would they give the literal STRONGEST set this patch to a class that has not been struggling in the slightest for the past like 8 months?

And oh boy, if only it ended there. We've not even started talking about the back bar buffs! I think something every player in eso can agree on is that if there's any area DK struggles in (which there are very few) healing/survivability is DEFINITELY not one of them.

On live, I have already seen my coags crit for anywhere from 12-14k. So please, someone explain why this set further buffs the heals I get when I sit on my defensive bar?
With all due respect, it seems as if absolutely nothing is being considered prior to being sent into the game.

Zos, please.. please take the time to at least look on the forums to see what people are asking for, and stop buffing the same class so many patches in a row.

Tommy_The_Gun

fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »

As a DK, I would rather see this set put away and Oakensoul re-buffed.

Werewolves would like that idea too.

Dr_Con

Decisive go brrrrrrrrrr

fxeconomisteb17_ESO

fred4 wrote: »

Damn! If the buff carries, this is way OP. How does the game even work out what your front bar is? Couldn't you just put this and all your defensive skills on bar 1 for the heroism while making bar 2 your offensive bar?

It's not OP. It's marginally better than Heartland. Maybe the magin that counts, but it's just marginally better.

You are upset at the cooldown, cause it makes it perma buff.

But do you honestly think, that if Drake's Rush would be buffed with Minor Heroism as well as the existing Major Heroism, would anyone actually use it due to the large hole put there by the cooldown ?

You guys want trash sets that mean nothing. I would ask ZOS, why the hell would we even buy arm packs if we can't have our cake when we want it ?

The game is full of averaged trash sets. Everyone obviously goes for the sets providing the most bang for the buck. Everyone wants to be godlike. Nobody wants averages. Everyone wants extremes. And there are two kind of extremes : extreme DPS and extreme tanking. And there are 7 classes.

TechMaybeHic

fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Damn! If the buff carries, this is way OP. How does the game even work out what your front bar is? Couldn't you just put this and all your defensive skills on bar 1 for the heroism while making bar 2 your offensive bar?

It's not OP. It's marginally better than Heartland. Maybe the magin that counts, but it's just marginally better.

You are upset at the cooldown, cause it makes it perma buff.

But do you honestly think, that if Drake's Rush would be buffed with Minor Heroism as well as the existing Major Heroism, would anyone actually use it due to the large hole put there by the cooldown ?

You guys want trash sets that mean nothing. I would ask ZOS, why the hell would we even buy arm packs if we can't have our cake when we want it ?

The game is full of averaged trash sets. Everyone obviously goes for the sets providing the most bang for the buck. Everyone wants to be godlike. Nobody wants averages. Everyone wants extremes. And there are two kind of extremes : extreme DPS and extreme tanking. And there are 7 classes.

What cooldown? Seems the buff lasts 20 seconds and the cooldown lasts 20 seconds from activation

Twohothardware

Has anyone posted video of this set in use? I want to see the actual ultimate build up in combat.

Galeriano

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Scyware wrote: »

Tell me you're a PVPer, without telling me you're a PVPer

Even in PvE this set will be massively OP. Do people not remember how ridiculous the heroism on Oakensoul was on release? This is even worse.

In PvE it will be kinda meh. You can get major or minor heroism from many sources already (heroism pots, heroic slash, drake's rush) and additional 14% healing is kinda pointless since heals in PvE are more than strong enough already.

On pve you'd put it on a healer with PP.

Do you know how many years I have WAITED for dk healer to be top tier trials healer

Why to put it on a helaer when You have sets that will charge ulti for You and Your group? Also that set is for from making DK a good healer not even mentioning top tier one.

boi_anachronism_

fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »

[snip]

We are trying to get something done. [snip] We lose the appetite and we leave until the next update.

The set is indeed more powerful than Heartland Conqueror, albeit marginally. However, as long as Immovable and its morphs continue to be a mockery 9 years since release, a non-blocking tank remains incompetent and cannot get a continuous ultimate stream.

So you see this as being on par with the other upcoming class sets available? Templar who needs 50 stacks? Nb who effectively loses incap to run their set? Necro that already had many of these buffs in its tool kit and is again relegated to a support role when it desperately needed a dps buff to make it viable as a full damage dps?

[edited to remove quote]

No, it's not on par. Certainly the best. To be honest I don't even play other than DK now. And when I began ESO, I did most content with my sorc, which has become my crafter main.

The two most special classes are DK and Nightblade. DK has the unique Magma to resist whatever comes at it. Nightblade is unique by invisibility. The other classes are in-between mish-mashes with more or less abilities to damage or to healing.

But Nightblades don't need ultimates for invisibility. Only Magicka. A lot of it, but only Magicka. Nightblades are functional as Nightblades out of the box. DKs, in order to become functional as DKs - not as general blockers as all classes can do - need to have functional Magma. That's what is made for.

It is imperative that DKs could reach a chaining level of Magma with a lot of investment. What you guys want is to be absolutely impossible. And I think ZOS is starting to understand their long fight to destroy tanking and keep DKs outside their functional level in order to get PVP streamers happy cannot be maintained anymore.

What could be on par with it ? A set that would restore a lot of the Magicka cost on Nightblade casting invisibility.
A set that could scale Radiant Destruction bonus damage from 100% target health, not from 50%.
And even so, many would just mumble that DKs are too strong.

Ok but you are here looking at this purely from a pvp perspective. Nighblade invisibility which you say is a staple of their class identity is in no way viable in pve where dk is not only viable but essential in almost every role, it is the only class that is capable of solo tanking score pushing runs for trifectas as well as being a class that multiple important comp sets synergize with far above any other class. Even with the double bar bonus invisibility got it is only used in one 12 man. Vas. The thing that that does for pvp is that it opens blade up to an extra skill and different pots where in 12 man it is essential to run sp pots which give us the same buff anyway where blades can now have the choice in pvp. Tripots for 1 example out of many are incredibly useful in pvp, you can do that while maintaining 100% in trials that is of no use.

Also i believe you are making assumptions about what i want for the set. I do believe it should be reworked and i dont believe it should go live in its current state but i never stated dks shouldnt have a strong set that suits the class, simply one on par with other classes. Im a blade main and i would still be 💯 against such a thing for that class as it woud give them unlimited in cap along with their already powerful crit bonuses, i also believe a stacking cost should be put on invisibility. My point is im interested in balance between the classes regardless if said balance means a set would be nerfes for that class to make it happen. The fact is this is very unbalanced as it stands.

Four_Fingers

gariondavey wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

The other guy's set is always too powerful!

If you look at the sets though you won't make that joke

Sorry I am not a Sorc.

Panderbander

I believe it is fair to say that an imbalance in classes manifests more significantly and more materially in a PvP environment than in a PvE environment.

Take werewolf for example: I can complete most veteran trial content as a werewolf without much effort (Cloudrest notwithstanding, but that's another issue completely), but in a PvP environment I absolutely struggle to achieve even a sense of parity with a DK running a meta Vat destro/Master's DW build.

Werewolf is running far behind in both contents (I can parse 90k+ on a fully optimized werewolf on live but 100k+ on a slapped together DK), but in one there may be a delta of a few percentage points in damage dealt (PvE) while in the other I have to struggle to survive as a werewolf while I casually handle packs of enemy players on a DK.

I am in no way saying the PvE balance should be ignored. What I am saying is that small imbalances in PvE get magnified by significant amounts when applied to PvP.