Disabling crown gifting is a bad idea

Katheriah

Respectfully, Kevin, but the crown crate gifting is temporary disabled for about half a year now. I can't say I have faith in a swift solution.

FireBreathingNord

That's a fair point - disabling gifting does hurt crown sales from legit players. But there may also be gains if more players stay engaged long-term without as many fraud harms. It's about balancing short and long-term revenue.

The ideal solution re-enables gifting with smart anti-fraud measures so crowns can still be exchanged safely. With the right policies, gifting crowns could continue with reduced fraud risk and sustain sales. There are compromises between a total ban and unchecked fraud.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

Sometimes investigations and temporarily disabling stuff does take longer. Not everything in life happens quickly and instantly.

Just wanted to build on this point. We are working on building solutions that protect everyone when gifting crown store items. Investigating solutions and building those out does take time. We understand this is not deal. It isn't ideal for anyone not engaging in fraudulent behavior. It isn't ideal for us. However, we want to stress this is temporary as we are working out the best path forward. We don't know how long this will take, but we are working to resolve this as soon as we can.

Glad to hear you're working on solutions to safely re-enable gifting. Temporary ban makes sense during investigation. Please keep the community updated on progress. Many rely on gifting legitimately, so the sooner compromise solutions are found, the better for honest players.

lostineternity

What the reason to farm gold in game right now? There are no cosmetics, no new homes for gold (fake currency lol).
Everything good have been added only to crown store for last 5-6 years.
[snip]
[edited for bashing]

Ezhh

Back when I was building my guild house, one of the main ways I afforded the ridiculously expensive Mundus stones/dummies and so on was by guild members selling me crowns at a lower than normal gold value. There was no way I could have ever bought enough crowns myself to make the guild house. I feel very sorry for anyone who still hoped to attempt such a thing themselves, because sadly I have no faith that this will be short term, or even "fixed" at all.

I also have friends who sell crowns to make gold and upgrade their equip, because they don't have time to grind for mats in game. They've already been contacting me the past couple months offering me lower gold prices to buy their crowns because (no surprise!) it's getting harder to find buyers. I've been turning them down, because I was saving my gold hoping crates could sometime be gifted again. At least a couple of the people I used to sometimes buy crates from this way are now barely playing and talk about fully quitting the game. This will quite likely drive them over the edge and make their decision for them.

Meanwhile I lose any motivation to make gold and so play less...

Players in a lot of different situations can be pushed toward leaving by this.

IrisDupree

Simple fix Accounts buying or receiving gifts must be a year old and/or have a subscription. Plus must have the gifter/seller on their friends list for a minimum amount of time say 6 months.
This prevents bots from selling gold unless they want to invest at least 6 months in being friends AND are any players going to risk their account to friend xxIsellgoldxx for 6 months and then make a trade?

The time limit on friends means you are ensuring that the people know each other for long enough they should be comfortable trading. The account age means people have invested enough time to not want to scam friends of gold and lose the account.

Destai

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

Sometimes investigations and temporarily disabling stuff does take longer. Not everything in life happens quickly and instantly.

Just wanted to build on this point. We are working on building solutions that protect everyone when gifting crown store items. Investigating solutions and building those out does take time. We understand this is not deal. It isn't ideal for anyone not engaging in fraudulent behavior. It isn't ideal for us. However, we want to stress this is temporary as we are working out the best path forward. We don't know how long this will take, but we are working to resolve this as soon as we can.

Some questions:

• Is an official crown-to-gold exchange being entertained? This seems like the most permanent solution to the need for the RMTs.
• How often will you be providing updates on the matter? It sounds like this will be an ongoing endeavor. Historically speaking, the updates haven't been as forthcoming as many of us would like, so it'd be nice to get some regular cadence.
• Will you be active this thread with more follow up on the numerous questions?
• Why was there not an advanced window? Many guilds have giveaways and other activities that rely on gifting, it would've been nice to have had a window to wrap that up.

Katheriah

SilverBride wrote: »

Katheriah wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Put the blame where the blame is due.

ZoS didn't create this problem... players did. They are the ones that are responsible for this mess.

Something needed to be done so they can remedy this situation. Luckily gifting is just paused and not removed permanently which they could have done instead.

I'm not blaming ZOS for the fraud that seems to be going on. I blame them for this 'solution'.

How would you have fixed it?

Easy. ZOS is working on a fix, according to Kevin. Make that fix prio 1 and don't disable gifting. Or only disable gifting with a really massive discount on crowns (and I don't mean just 50%) to get on the good side of players.

I don't think you realize how many people have making gold to get shinies as their playstyle.

Reverb

I suspect that this is driven by the monetization department. I theorize that the number of continuous ESO+ subscriptions dropped significantly after U35 and didn’t rebound, and that purchases during the last Crown sale didn’t meet targets.

Reasons for this are several. The inability to gift crates has been in place for much longer than expected, and people who would buy crowns to sell, gift, or raffle crates haven’t been buying.

I know many members of the pvp and pve raiding community who bought DLCs with gold after dropping sub due to zeni’s development direction over the last 18 months. A casual poll of crown sellers seems to be primarily unloading their ESO+ crowns rather than buying.

In the execs short-sighted views, denying crown gifting means everyone will need to either sub or buy crowns themselves. In all likelihood a small percentage of players will do that, and the rest will drift away from the game. That will lead to continued declines of subs, purchases, and player pop, which will lead to more aggressive monetization to meet cash flow targets, which will lead to more players leaving, in a vicious cycle.

jaws343

Katheriah wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Katheriah wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Put the blame where the blame is due.

ZoS didn't create this problem... players did. They are the ones that are responsible for this mess.

Something needed to be done so they can remedy this situation. Luckily gifting is just paused and not removed permanently which they could have done instead.

I'm not blaming ZOS for the fraud that seems to be going on. I blame them for this 'solution'.

How would you have fixed it?

Easy. ZOS is working on a fix, according to Kevin. Make that fix prio 1 and don't disable gifting. Or only disable gifting with a really massive discount on crowns (and I don't mean just 50%) to get on the good side of players.

I don't think you realize how many people have making gold to get shinies as their playstyle.

Letting fraudulent behavior continue isn't a real option though. You can't let the problem continue just to keep the system in place until you can fix it. That isn't how anything in life works.

It's like fixing a leak in a pipe without turning the water off. You have to shut the water off to replace the pipe or you just end up in a larger mess.

Katheriah

This arms pack is currently for sale, remember: it's just cosmetics.



This costs 2500 crowns. I'd have to buy the 3000 Crown Pack for €20.99. There is no way in hell I would pay this amount of money for cosmetics.

But if they were €3-5, I would buy every. single. one of them. All of them. If the houses had normal prices, same thing.

The fraudulent people get so much success, because the crownstore cosmetics are extremely expensive.

thehilanderb14a_ESO

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

Sometimes investigations and temporarily disabling stuff does take longer. Not everything in life happens quickly and instantly.

Just wanted to build on this point. We are working on building solutions that protect everyone when gifting crown store items. Investigating solutions and building those out does take time. We understand this is not deal. It isn't ideal for anyone not engaging in fraudulent behavior. It isn't ideal for us. However, we want to stress this is temporary as we are working out the best path forward. We don't know how long this will take, but we are working to resolve this as soon as we can.

The problem is that the game is already struggling in terms of population and has been for some time now. If any “temporary” fix lasts long too long, it results in more people moving on to “greener pastures”. That in turn makes the game less fun for those who remain, and creates a compounding problem.

lostineternity

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

Sometimes investigations and temporarily disabling stuff does take longer. Not everything in life happens quickly and instantly.

Just wanted to build on this point. We are working on building solutions that protect everyone when gifting crown store items. Investigating solutions and building those out does take time. We understand this is not deal. It isn't ideal for anyone not engaging in fraudulent behavior. It isn't ideal for us. However, we want to stress this is temporary as we are working out the best path forward. We don't know how long this will take, but we are working to resolve this as soon as we can.

you know even our lives or even our galactic is temporary

FireBreathingNord

Reverb wrote: »

I suspect that this is driven by the monetization department. I theorize that the number of continuous ESO+ subscriptions dropped significantly after U35 and didn’t rebound, and that purchases during the last Crown sale didn’t meet targets.

Reasons are this are several. The inability to gift crates has been in place for much longer than expected, and people who would buy crowns to sell, gift, or raffle crates haven’t been buying.

I know many members of the pvp and pve raiding community who bought DLCs with gold after dropping sub due to zeni’s development direction over the last 18 months. A casual poll of crown sellers seems to be primarily unloading their ESO+ crowns rather than buying.

In the execs short-sighted views, denying crown gifting means everyone will need to either sub or buy crowns themselves. In all likelihood a small percentage of players will do that, and the rest will drift away from the game. That will lead to continued declines of subs, purchases, and player pop, which will lead to more aggressive monetization to meet cash flow targets, which will lead to more players leaving, in a vicious cycle.

You raise fair concerns - overzealous monetization often backfires long-term when players feel nickeled and dimed. But let's give ZOS benefit of doubt that they want to balance revenue with maintaining a vibrant player economy.

There are compromises between unchecked fraud enabling and blanket gifting bans. With good faith on both sides, solutions can be found that curb abuse while keeping crowns flowing reasonably. Patience and optimism can prevail over cynicism.

NerfSeige

Maaaan, we just announced the winner of our housing contest... And we can't send the prizes now so I checked the forums. Bad move imo

Soarora

jaws343 wrote: »

Katheriah wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Katheriah wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Put the blame where the blame is due.

ZoS didn't create this problem... players did. They are the ones that are responsible for this mess.

Something needed to be done so they can remedy this situation. Luckily gifting is just paused and not removed permanently which they could have done instead.

I'm not blaming ZOS for the fraud that seems to be going on. I blame them for this 'solution'.

How would you have fixed it?

Easy. ZOS is working on a fix, according to Kevin. Make that fix prio 1 and don't disable gifting. Or only disable gifting with a really massive discount on crowns (and I don't mean just 50%) to get on the good side of players.

I don't think you realize how many people have making gold to get shinies as their playstyle.

Letting fraudulent behavior continue isn't a real option though. You can't let the problem continue just to keep the system in place until you can fix it. That isn't how anything in life works.

It's like fixing a leak in a pipe without turning the water off. You have to shut the water off to replace the pipe or you just end up in a larger mess.

Fraudulent behavior could range from pirating a movie from a controversial multi-million dollar corporation to millions of dollars in tax evasion. Not all fraud is worth stopping at the cost of public relations. If ZOS loses more money to the fraud then they would to the PR loss, then fine. But I have my doubts that is the case.

Katheriah

jaws343 wrote: »

Katheriah wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Katheriah wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Put the blame where the blame is due.

ZoS didn't create this problem... players did. They are the ones that are responsible for this mess.

Something needed to be done so they can remedy this situation. Luckily gifting is just paused and not removed permanently which they could have done instead.

I'm not blaming ZOS for the fraud that seems to be going on. I blame them for this 'solution'.

How would you have fixed it?

Easy. ZOS is working on a fix, according to Kevin. Make that fix prio 1 and don't disable gifting. Or only disable gifting with a really massive discount on crowns (and I don't mean just 50%) to get on the good side of players.

I don't think you realize how many people have making gold to get shinies as their playstyle.

Letting fraudulent behavior continue isn't a real option though. You can't let the problem continue just to keep the system in place until you can fix it. That isn't how anything in life works.

It's like fixing a leak in a pipe without turning the water off. You have to shut the water off to replace the pipe or you just end up in a larger mess.

You miss two points:
1. This seemingly has been going on for a longer time, why is there suddenly a need to shut it off? The house is already flooded and the cat has drowned.
2. ZOS is really at a point where they want to keep their loyal players happy. Subscribers are not happy with the latest update (no new content, and the fixes are not as great as hoped), this is not helping.

SilverBride

Katheriah wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Katheriah wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Put the blame where the blame is due.

ZoS didn't create this problem... players did. They are the ones that are responsible for this mess.

Something needed to be done so they can remedy this situation. Luckily gifting is just paused and not removed permanently which they could have done instead.

I'm not blaming ZOS for the fraud that seems to be going on. I blame them for this 'solution'.

How would you have fixed it?

Easy. ZOS is working on a fix, according to Kevin. Make that fix prio 1 and don't disable gifting. Or only disable gifting with a really massive discount on crowns (and I don't mean just 50%) to get on the good side of players.

I don't think you realize how many people have making gold to get shinies as their playstyle.

I realize this, which is why I'm active in trading and have amassed enough guild to purchase what I want. Our guild has a crown exchange service established in our discord and in the past few months I've purchased Earthtear Cavern and the Grand Psijic Villa through them. That was a total of 28000 crowns and over 40 million gold just in those 2 purchases. So I do get it.

Pausing gifting so they can find a solution is a much better option than just giving up and disabling gifting permanently.

majulook

When they allowed the gifting and basically OKed Gold for Crowns, but did not make it actually available to do in the U/I or somewhere else that actually in the game other than player chat. They could not see the extremely high possibility of scamming, fraud, and other shenanigans?

Sheezabeast

Well there goes my only way of being able to obtain future DLCs.....

Aorys

Its September and many games out there waiting for me to open my purse. There is the trigger.

Murderhound

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

Sometimes investigations and temporarily disabling stuff does take longer. Not everything in life happens quickly and instantly.

Just wanted to build on this point. We are working on building solutions that protect everyone when gifting crown store items. Investigating solutions and building those out does take time. We understand this is not deal. It isn't ideal for anyone not engaging in fraudulent behavior. It isn't ideal for us. However, we want to stress this is temporary as we are working out the best path forward. We don't know how long this will take, but we are working to resolve this as soon as we can.

Your punish the many for the sins of a few is not welcome nor will it play out the way you hope. The game has been out for 8 years now, if you haven't figured out how to balance the market and create a safe trading space by now. You may never figure it out. This does nothing but alienate the already slimmed out player base thanks to U35 mass exodus. Even people who are returning from a break all have the same comments about the game. Limited things to earn in game or strive for. Now you take away what little they had to begin with. Is the attrition of your player base worth this? Hate to tell you, but fraud is prevalent even in games that have systems to prevent it. They will just figure out a different way to work the system that you haven't thought of. They do this just in time for Starfield, convenient reason to play a whole lot less.

jaws343

Katheriah wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Katheriah wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Katheriah wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Put the blame where the blame is due.

ZoS didn't create this problem... players did. They are the ones that are responsible for this mess.

Something needed to be done so they can remedy this situation. Luckily gifting is just paused and not removed permanently which they could have done instead.

I'm not blaming ZOS for the fraud that seems to be going on. I blame them for this 'solution'.

How would you have fixed it?

Easy. ZOS is working on a fix, according to Kevin. Make that fix prio 1 and don't disable gifting. Or only disable gifting with a really massive discount on crowns (and I don't mean just 50%) to get on the good side of players.

I don't think you realize how many people have making gold to get shinies as their playstyle.

Letting fraudulent behavior continue isn't a real option though. You can't let the problem continue just to keep the system in place until you can fix it. That isn't how anything in life works.

It's like fixing a leak in a pipe without turning the water off. You have to shut the water off to replace the pipe or you just end up in a larger mess.

You miss two points:
1. This seemingly has been going on for a longer time, why is there suddenly a need to shut it off? The house is already flooded and the cat has drowned.
2. ZOS is really at a point where they want to keep their loyal players happy. Subscribers are not happy with the latest update (no new content, and the fixes are not as great as hoped), this is not helping.

I mean, they've spent the last 6 months trying to fix the pipe while keeping the water somewhat running, and apparently, that is no longer a functional option.

And the fraud aspect of things seems to be more prevalent rather recently as of this year. So it isn't like this has been out of control for years and they are just coming around to it.

Aka_

Just like the leaving instances situation where very few players exploited a buggy system, you punished the many for what the few do and tout it as a solution, instead of fixing those exploits directly.

Also, I received a gift yesterday that I can't open today, which is pretty annoying, to say the least.

majulook

Aorys wrote: »

Its September and many games out there waiting for me to open my purse. There is the trigger.

I certainly am looking at 3 that are on my short list to get in the next few months.

IrisDupree

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

Sometimes investigations and temporarily disabling stuff does take longer. Not everything in life happens quickly and instantly.

Just wanted to build on this point. We are working on building solutions that protect everyone when gifting crown store items. Investigating solutions and building those out does take time. We understand this is not deal. It isn't ideal for anyone not engaging in fraudulent behavior. It isn't ideal for us. However, we want to stress this is temporary as we are working out the best path forward. We don't know how long this will take, but we are working to resolve this as soon as we can.

I know being the bearer of news like this likely sucks. But, with respect, you all have been working on the crown crates for over 6 months now and now adding another layer of not gifting is not giving us any hope that its going to be fixed. This fix not only affects people like me who cannot afford crowns but also your own streamers and large guilds that gift prizes to members.

We as your players deserve a timeline or an honest we are not bringing it back ever. So we can make informed choices on whether its time to move on from this game or stick around.

prof_doom

prof_doom wrote: »

Naftal wrote: »

They disabled the biggest gold sink in the game. I don't think you are thinking this through.

There's an easy answer to this problem.
Put everything currently in the crown store in a new store where you can buy things for in-game gold.

2nd option that I saw someone elsewhere suggest: Make an NPC that sells Seals of Endeavor for gold. Then they don't even have to make a new storefront UI.

Kappachi

I just hope when it comes back there is gift with C.O.D. option

Four_Fingers

Yes, we need a way to buy service tokens with gold, it is just not about crown crate items.
Or even service tokens for endeavors would help.

Reverb

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Well there goes my only way of being able to obtain future DLCs.....

I’m pretty sure that’s the intent. Instead of being able to get the DLCs from someone in exchange for gold, you’ll have to either sub or buy your own crowns. That’s a win for zeni

Aka_

Reverb wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Well there goes my only way of being able to obtain future DLCs.....

I’m pretty sure that’s the intent. Instead of being able to get the DLCs from someone in exchange for gold, you’ll have to either sub or buy your own crowns. That’s a win for zeni

No? The DLC still had to be bought by someone. They still get the money whether someone gifted it or bought it themselves.