ESO players seem more entitled than ever

Jierdanit

Everyday you see new threads in which people are asking ZOS to make certain things easier to get or to give something that would require playing a different area of the game to them without actually having to play those parts of the game.
This is most noticeable during Midyear Mayhem when you get several threads a day about people complaining that they have to PvP to get their tickets, during the only PvP event there is.

Some other examples are PvE players generally asking for a PvE version of Cyrodiil or IC, casual PvE players asking for access to Endgame PvE like Trials and generally players asking to further lower the gap between the floor and the ceiling.

I don't understand how it is so hard for players to accept that there is stuff they won't get unless they take part in every part of the game. I have never done a Trial in ESO simply because I can't be bothered to do PvE, especially in a group of 12 people and I don't expect to get the rewards from Trials while not doing them.
I barely ever get Tickets from the PvE events, because they are super boring to me so I rarely take part, but that is just how it is, you dont get something if you dont do the content.

Generally a lot of people seem to be against other players being more effective than them, even if it is because they put way more work into their chars or are just considerably more skilled/experienced and constantly act like they're entitled to everything in the game simply because they bought it.

How do people want to get everything in the game handed to them, without them having to actually do the content? For me that would completely destroy every sense of achievement I'd get from it.

TaSheen

I don't really have any problem with not doing stuff I don't find fun. I ONLY do stuff I find fun in any game, and the "achievements" and rewards for the parts of the game I'm not interested in I also don't miss.

I don't play games for "sense of achievement". I play games strictly for fun.

tincanman

I doubt it's really about making it easier or unrewarding of effort - it's just the logistics of life and making the whole game or most of it accessible to as many as possible within the limited time people individually have available to play.

Customers are entitled to request whatever features they want of this product - they are, after all, paying or have paid for it.

Dagoth_Rac

The only thing you see more of than posts about easier access to items and content is posts complaining about people who want easier access to items and content.

Jierdanit

tincanman wrote: »

I doubt it's really about making it easier or unrewarding of effort - it's just the logistics of life and making the whole game or most of it accessible to as many as possible within the limited time people individually have available to play.

That's exactly my problem though. If you're playing a game this big you gotta accept that you won't get/achieve everything unless you put a huge amount of time into it.
At least that is my opinion.

tincanman wrote: »

Customers are entitled to request whatever features they want of this product - they are, after all, paying or have paid for it.

The only thing customers are entitled to is the product they paid for, not any changes to that product.
They can ofc ask for anything, I simply don't understand why they would ask for things like that tbh.

spartaxoxo

Customers are entitled to make feature requests. I don't see the issue. Everyone has their own opinion about how they'd like the game to play out. Devs take the feedback from all types and then make a game that will sell to a broad range of people. Pretty much the nature of online games.

Soarora

I agree with you, the entitlement is shocking. I hope many of the entitled players in question are able to find a single-player game they can invest in, seems like they’d be happier there.

Tandor

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Customers are entitled to make feature requests. I don't see the issue. Everyone has their own opinion about how they'd like the game to play out. Devs take the feedback from all types and then make a game that will sell to a broad range of people. Pretty much the nature of online games.

Devs also need to look at the success of their game as it exists and recognise the dangers of changing things in order to attract a few new players at the potential expense of losing a lot of existing players. SOE failed to recognise that danger with SWG:NGE, and every time ZOS trivialise another aspect of ESO they take the same risk. Sooner or later a critical number of those who liked the game as it was will walk away because it's no longer that game.

BlueRaven

Soarora wrote: »

I agree with you, the entitlement is shocking. I hope many of the entitled players in question are able to find a single-player game they can invest in, seems like they’d be happier there.

Are you advocating for LESS players in ESO? Because less players is a great way to kill the game.

Jierdanit

Tandor wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Customers are entitled to make feature requests. I don't see the issue. Everyone has their own opinion about how they'd like the game to play out. Devs take the feedback from all types and then make a game that will sell to a broad range of people. Pretty much the nature of online games.

Devs also need to look at the success of their game as it exists and recognise the dangers of changing things in order to attract a few new players at the potential expense of losing a lot of existing players. SOE failed to recognise that danger with SWG:NGE, and every time ZOS trivialise another aspect of ESO they take the same risk. Sooner or later a critical number of those who liked the game as it was will walk away because it's no longer that game.

A lot of people already have walked away sadly. At least from looking at my guilds and friends list. Used to have lots of people online every day, now I'm lucky to see a few a week.

spartaxoxo

Tandor wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Customers are entitled to make feature requests. I don't see the issue. Everyone has their own opinion about how they'd like the game to play out. Devs take the feedback from all types and then make a game that will sell to a broad range of people. Pretty much the nature of online games.

Devs also need to look at the success of their game as it exists and recognise the dangers of changing things in order to attract a few new players at the potential expense of losing a lot of existing players. SOE failed to recognise that danger with SWG:NGE, and every time ZOS trivialise another aspect of ESO they take the same risk. Sooner or later a critical number of those who liked the game as it was will walk away because it's no longer that game.

They have lost players to the skill gap being too high though and addressed that as a crucial need to fix. They have done that while trying their best not to lower the difficulty of the trials themselves.

The people who want more difficult content for the low end content like questing, and the people who want vet trials to be more accessible so it's easier to find groups are both correct imo. The gap is too much. And both are constantly complained about at a highly sustained level for years because the gap is genuinely too wide. I actually think they've done a good job overall of tackling that issue and the game is in a healthier spot than a couple of years ago, skill gap wise.

PvE Cyrodiil is obviously NOT a good idea but the devs have done nothing to make that remotely a thing.

In the end, I think that the best way for customers to handle things is to leave the feedback they believe in. And for the developers to listen to all of it, but only work on ideas that actually work for the health of the game. I don't think there's a problem that everyone has different opinions on it.

Bucky_13

Tandor wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Customers are entitled to make feature requests. I don't see the issue. Everyone has their own opinion about how they'd like the game to play out. Devs take the feedback from all types and then make a game that will sell to a broad range of people. Pretty much the nature of online games.

Devs also need to look at the success of their game as it exists and recognise the dangers of changing things in order to attract a few new players at the potential expense of losing a lot of existing players. SOE failed to recognise that danger with SWG:NGE, and every time ZOS trivialise another aspect of ESO they take the same risk. Sooner or later a critical number of those who liked the game as it was will walk away because it's no longer that game.

A lack of change can also impact the player case negatively, the reason why a ton of PvP players have left the game is due to the general indifference towards those players. When you do the same thing day in and out and nothing changes, you get bored and moved on. I guess it would be more fair to call what is needed improvements and new content though, balancing a few classes doesn't really move the needle that much.

Soarora

BlueRaven wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I agree with you, the entitlement is shocking. I hope many of the entitled players in question are able to find a single-player game they can invest in, seems like they’d be happier there.

Are you advocating for LESS players in ESO? Because less players is a great way to kill the game.

I'm advocating for people who are unhappy with ESO to find a game that they enjoy. A total shift in ESO towards single-player and casualizing everything and making PvP easily PvE-accessible would destroy the game we have now for the benefit of people who might just be happier playing a different game. I say this mostly because of complaints against the combat system as a whole along with complaints that other people exist in an online game.

Let's be honest here, if the removal of the people in question will kill the game then TES6 is going to kill ESO.

BlueRaven

Soarora wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I agree with you, the entitlement is shocking. I hope many of the entitled players in question are able to find a single-player game they can invest in, seems like they’d be happier there.

Are you advocating for LESS players in ESO? Because less players is a great way to kill the game.

I'm advocating for people who are unhappy with ESO to find a game that they enjoy. A total shift in ESO towards single-player and casualizing everything and making PvP easily PvE-accessible would destroy the game we have now for the benefit of people who might just be happier playing a different game. I say this mostly because of complaints against the combat system as a whole along with complaints that other people exist in an online game.

Let's be honest here, if the removal of the people in question will kill the game then TES6 is going to kill ESO.

TES6 is years away. We are talking about Bethesda here.

And there are more casual players than hardcore end gamers. So by your logic, maybe the hardcore players should be the ones go play their single player “souls/rouge-like” games and let the majority of players have their fun.

I'm just advocating for people who are unhappy that other players getting to enjoy themselves by finally doing trials and such, to go find a “hardcore” game that they enjoy.

•••

See? This works both ways.

There are players who are not going to get better;

they are tired from a long day at work,
they don’t take games that seriously,
their time is limited due to RL issues,
they may have old outdated computers,
they are simply older, etc (whatever).

We should be a community that supports each other. Try to make the eso family larger.

Don’t advocate for players to leave the game. Think of ways we can all share the toys.

Soarora

BlueRaven wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I agree with you, the entitlement is shocking. I hope many of the entitled players in question are able to find a single-player game they can invest in, seems like they’d be happier there.

Are you advocating for LESS players in ESO? Because less players is a great way to kill the game.

I'm advocating for people who are unhappy with ESO to find a game that they enjoy. A total shift in ESO towards single-player and casualizing everything and making PvP easily PvE-accessible would destroy the game we have now for the benefit of people who might just be happier playing a different game. I say this mostly because of complaints against the combat system as a whole along with complaints that other people exist in an online game.

Let's be honest here, if the removal of the people in question will kill the game then TES6 is going to kill ESO.

TES6 is years away. We are talking about Bethesda here.

And there are more casual players than hardcore end gamers. So by your logic, maybe the hardcore players should be the ones go play their single player “souls/rouge-like” games and let the majority of players have their fun.

I'm just advocating for people who are unhappy that other players getting to enjoy themselves by finally doing trials and such, to go find a “hardcore” game that they enjoy.

•••

See? This works both ways.

There are players who are not going to get better;

they are tired from a long day at work,
they don’t take games that seriously,
their time is limited due to RL issues,
they may have old outdated computers,
they are simply older, etc (whatever).

We should be a community that supports each other. Try to make the eso family larger.

Don’t advocate for players to leave the game. Think of ways we can all share the toys.

Doesn't matter when, it matters that TES6 will happen. You see, it doesn't actually go both ways like you think it does. For one, the opposing party to those who are unhappy is NOT hardcore endgamers. You are implying that every casual is entitled, which is not true at all. The opposing party is people who are happy with the game as it is. For two, people happy with the game would be mad when the game changes. We cannot say for sure that this group is the minority especially when this game has been out for several years which is a lot of investment for people. Finally, endgamers HAVE been leaving for other games.

I play this game because I like this game. I don't want it to be made easier, I don't want the PvP PvE-ified, I don't want the combat completely changed. For better or for worse, the game just needs polishing and better handling. Not a complete ravamp where everything is handed to everyone. A casual can be a casual but they cannot ask for every trifecta and grand overlord handed to them on a silver platter. As a former casual, I never expected to get anything I have achieved. I never expected to like PvP as I hated it for a while. I never expected to actually get a trifecta in a dungeon or a trial. I still do not expect a thing. I might get grand overlord one day. I might get swashbuckler supreme. I might not, and that's okay. This may just be a game, but it's an rpgmmo. Other players are involved. Play the parts of the games you enjoy, don't advocate for other peoples parts of the game to be made into what you want. And if you don't like a core portion of the game, then find a game you like. Be happy. It's in your hands.

merpins

PVE and PVP both need attention. PVP more so, but fact of the matter is, statistically, there are more PVE players than PVP players, so I can see why Zos doesn't focus on the PVP much.

I think a good step in the right direction is balancing the two game modes separately. then there'd be less complaints from either side that impact either side.

TaSheen

merpins wrote: »

PVE and PVP both need attention. PVP more so, but fact of the matter is, statistically, there are more PVE players than PVP players, so I can see why Zos doesn't focus on the PVP much.

I think a good step in the right direction is balancing the two game modes separately. then there'd be less complaints from either side that impact either side.

Absolutely. There's really no excuse for the devs to ignore pvp. No, I don't play that part of the game, but my gosh! How long do the devs think pvp players will just sit here and take being ignored, being second class citizens,? THE DEVS are the ones who put pvp into this game, with some serious set up from the beginning to make pvp iimportant to the game.

But then.... they abdicated support for pvp.... I don't pvp any more (never in this game, but years back in WoW and RIFT) - but the inequity is just sad....

Balancing separately would be a good first step.

Supreme_Atromancer

No, I don't think "people are becoming more entitled every day". ZOS regularly solicits feedback from the community. The Forums are an invitation to express those things. I don't know if your thread is a wish topics you don't like would cease, or an appeal to the moral fabric of the gaming community, but I suspect its pointless in either case.

No one thinks that achievements shouldn't be achievable; so I'd say it looks like we're all brothers and sisters united in this terrible sense of entitlement. The point of difference- how those barriers work, and who they work for- is what we're all hating on each other for and trawling through comment histories and unfairly characterising people over. That's where you should direct your efforts in overcoming your self-professed failure to understand other people.

Jierdanit

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

No, I don't think "people are becoming more entitled every day". ZOS regularly solicits feedback from the community. The Forums are an invitation to express those things. I don't know if your thread is a wish topics you don't like would cease, or an appeal to the moral fabric of the gaming community, but I suspect its pointless in either case.

No one thinks that achievements shouldn't be achievable; so I'd say it looks like we're all brothers and sisters united in this terrible sense of entitlement. The point of difference- how those barriers work, and who they work for- is what we're all hating on each other for and trawling through comment histories and unfairly characterising people over. That's where you should direct your efforts in overcoming your self-professed failure to understand other people.

The achievements are already achievable though.
People just need to accept that there are some they are not going to get if they don't do all the content.
That's how achievements work, you have to actually do something specific to get them.

TinyDragon

Jierdanit wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

No, I don't think "people are becoming more entitled every day". ZOS regularly solicits feedback from the community. The Forums are an invitation to express those things. I don't know if your thread is a wish topics you don't like would cease, or an appeal to the moral fabric of the gaming community, but I suspect its pointless in either case.

No one thinks that achievements shouldn't be achievable; so I'd say it looks like we're all brothers and sisters united in this terrible sense of entitlement. The point of difference- how those barriers work, and who they work for- is what we're all hating on each other for and trawling through comment histories and unfairly characterising people over. That's where you should direct your efforts in overcoming your self-professed failure to understand other people.

The achievements are already achievable though.
People just need to accept that there are some they are not going to get if they don't do all the content.
That's how achievements work, you have to actually do something specific to get them.

That's your opinion, which you are entitled to express here. Other people may have differing opinions, which they are also entitled to express here.

AnduinTryggva

Jierdanit wrote: »

Everyday you see new threads in which people are asking ZOS to make certain things easier to get or to give something that would require playing a different area of the game to them without actually having to play those parts of the game.
This is most noticeable during Midyear Mayhem when you get several threads a day about people complaining that they have to PvP to get their tickets, during the only PvP event there is.

Some other examples are PvE players generally asking for a PvE version of Cyrodiil or IC, casual PvE players asking for access to Endgame PvE like Trials and generally players asking to further lower the gap between the floor and the ceiling.

I don't understand how it is so hard for players to accept that there is stuff they won't get unless they take part in every part of the game. I have never done a Trial in ESO simply because I can't be bothered to do PvE, especially in a group of 12 people and I don't expect to get the rewards from Trials while not doing them.
I barely ever get Tickets from the PvE events, because they are super boring to me so I rarely take part, but that is just how it is, you dont get something if you dont do the content.

Generally a lot of people seem to be against other players being more effective than them, even if it is because they put way more work into their chars or are just considerably more skilled/experienced and constantly act like they're entitled to everything in the game simply because they bought it.

How do people want to get everything in the game handed to them, without them having to actually do the content? For me that would completely destroy every sense of achievement I'd get from it.

Each player is actually fully entitled to request whatever s/he wants. It is weird that some people see offence in that. All players are customers and as that they can express what they expect the product to offer to them. Of course you are entitled to request to not have these changes. But I wonder what entitles some to think that is is ok to request other customers to not request.

On the part of "a lot of people seem to be against other players being more effective than them" looks to be a huge assumption on your part without any evidence. Maybe it is how you see other people? Do you see other people from the perspective of competition and you assume that other people do the same? If so: I can tell you that a lot of people have a very different approach that you and this assumption is just wrong.

AnduinTryggva

Tandor wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Customers are entitled to make feature requests. I don't see the issue. Everyone has their own opinion about how they'd like the game to play out. Devs take the feedback from all types and then make a game that will sell to a broad range of people. Pretty much the nature of online games.

Devs also need to look at the success of their game as it exists and recognise the dangers of changing things in order to attract a few new players at the potential expense of losing a lot of existing players. SOE failed to recognise that danger with SWG:NGE, and every time ZOS trivialise another aspect of ESO they take the same risk. Sooner or later a critical number of those who liked the game as it was will walk away because it's no longer that game.

That may be but the risk also exists the other way round.
A lot of people will eventually walk away from a game they have played for years.

Before I started out with ESO I played flight simulators. For many many years. Did nothing else. Eventually the interest faded away. I simply had no longer the motivation. I dropped it and then for some time played some fps until I lost interest in that genre. Now I play ESO and maybe in some years I will drop it too. A game developer has to observe how the targeted customer range evolves to maintain a high level of income. Otherwise it will die.

Nightowl_74

I don't care how other people get their tickets or rewards for anything, or feel it impacts my game. I just do the things that I enjoy doing.

Supreme_Atromancer

.

Jierdanit wrote: »

That's how achievements work, you have to actually do something specific to get them.

ZOS aren't making achievements no one is getting. They need to think about what people playing their game want, what they expect, aspirational values, and tolerance and desire for doing unpalatable things. Some times they might need to push it a little, and some times, to reign it in. If anything, it would be entitlement to argue that they shouldn't adapt- if that's what would be best for the players and the game- just because the *current* status quo happens to align best with what *you* believe is good.

I get the value of keeping some things challenging and requiring "work". But it shouldn't be hard to also see that people have wildly different thresholds for grinding out things they don't enjoy; that those people still have a stake in the game (its not just "if you don't like this aspect you should LEAVE"), AND zos probably needs to pay attention to that to determine the sweet spot. People should be free to discuss that.

There's a lot of rhetoric about "entitled people these days" but the obvious counter to that is that things change. People *do* have far less tolerance for grind and "pain" that developers were able to crutch on in previous times. They could make Wildstar 2.0 with all the classic values and the 20 or so people actually playing it would be ecstatically happy, I'm sure. This could be a sign of the moral fabric of today's gamer or whatever, but I think its maybe because downtime is at an absolute premium for many more people now, not some "sense of entitlement" thing.

Hurbster

I'm not going to comment as I don't want to cop a holiday from the forums, but IMO that is a very inflammatory and aggressive topic title.

BlueRaven

[Edit to remove repeat post]

Hurbster wrote: »

I'm not going to comment as I don't want to cop a holiday from the forums, but IMO that is a very inflammatory and aggressive topic title.

Agreed.

The “entitlement” card gets thrown around a lot on these forums. It basically can be assigned to any request or opinion a player does not agree with at this point.

More/less casual/endgame content = entitlement.

More/less pvp content = entitlement.

It’s really kind of lost its meaning at this point, and is just meant to inflame.

agelonestar

I couldn't disagree with @Jierdanit more if I wanted to.

ESO Players are, in fact, paying customers. Some paid for the base game, some for the ESO Plus subscription, and some for the annual Chapter releases. I have been paying since 2014. I subscribe, have bought every chapter, and I have done so on multiple accounts. I buy Crowns on top, too, because I like shiny stuff.

So, if I want to voice my opinion on the direction of the game that has always told me I will be able to "Play My Way" then I will and I encourage everyone else to do so, too. I'm going to be especially vocal about game performance, about poor communication from ZoS to their customers, and where the game is going down a road I can't follow.

As should we all.

Jierdanit

agelonestar wrote: »

I couldn't disagree with @Jierdanit more if I wanted to.

ESO Players are, in fact, paying customers. Some paid for the base game, some for the ESO Plus subscription, and some for the annual Chapter releases. I have been paying since 2014. I subscribe, have bought every chapter, and I have done so on multiple accounts. I buy Crowns on top, too, because I like shiny stuff.

So, if I want to voice my opinion on the direction of the game that has always told me I will be able to "Play My Way" then I will and I encourage everyone else to do so, too. I'm going to be especially vocal about game performance, about poor communication from ZoS to their customers, and where the game is going down a road I can't follow.

As should we all.

I don't mind any complaints about game performance or poor communication. I complain about that too. That has nothing to do with being entitled though, you paid for a product so you can expect that product to work or if it isn't working at least expect decent communication about why.

However play how you want never meant "play how you want and get everything in the game through it" if you only do Overland PvE you're only going to get rewards and achievements from Overland PvE.
The same goes for PvP and all other playstyles.
If you only play certain parts of the game you're only going to get rewarded for those parts.

My problem is with people that are asking to get rewards from other parts of the game without actually having to engage in those parts.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

Jierdanit

BlueRaven wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I agree with you, the entitlement is shocking. I hope many of the entitled players in question are able to find a single-player game they can invest in, seems like they’d be happier there.

Are you advocating for LESS players in ESO? Because less players is a great way to kill the game.

I'm advocating for people who are unhappy with ESO to find a game that they enjoy. A total shift in ESO towards single-player and casualizing everything and making PvP easily PvE-accessible would destroy the game we have now for the benefit of people who might just be happier playing a different game. I say this mostly because of complaints against the combat system as a whole along with complaints that other people exist in an online game.

Let's be honest here, if the removal of the people in question will kill the game then TES6 is going to kill ESO.

TES6 is years away. We are talking about Bethesda here.

And there are more casual players than hardcore end gamers. So by your logic, maybe the hardcore players should be the ones go play their single player “souls/rouge-like” games and let the majority of players have their fun.

I'm just advocating for people who are unhappy that other players getting to enjoy themselves by finally doing trials and such, to go find a “hardcore” game that they enjoy.

•••

See? This works both ways.

There are players who are not going to get better;

they are tired from a long day at work,
they don’t take games that seriously,
their time is limited due to RL issues,
they may have old outdated computers,
they are simply older, etc (whatever).

We should be a community that supports each other. Try to make the eso family larger.

Don’t advocate for players to leave the game. Think of ways we can all share the toys.

It's funny when the casual players who have almost all the "toys" in this game ask endgame PvE and PvP players to share theirs.

To add onto this: It's especially funny if this argument is brought up by a guy, who partied openly here in forums the last time a bunch of endgamers left.

Link?

Sure, no problem:

BlueRaven wrote: »

LordDragonMara wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

It's time for other people to enjoy endgame content. It's has been inaccessible for the majority.

It was accessible to you, but you didn't want to put the work to get there. It's still going to be inaccessible for you, and we can on bet on that.
Also making the vets players mad with this changes, a lot of them will quit, and a lot of others won't be happy with the casuals, good luck getting into some of their group.

If a lot of them quit, will zos finally stop wasting money on producing two dungeon dlcs a year? Seems like a win to me.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/611855/competitive-players-the-most-mistreated-eso-demographic/p1

sarcasm
sär′kăz″əm
noun
A cutting, often ironic remark intended to express contempt or ridicule.
A form of wit characterized by the use of such remarks.
A biting taunt or gibe, or the use of such a taunt; a bitter, cutting expression; a satirical remark or expression, uttered with scorn or contempt; in rhetoric, a form of irony; bitter irony.

••••

That comment was in a thread called

“Competitive Players: The Most Mistreated ESO Demographic”

If you don’t see the irony in pointing out that they get two dungeon dlcs a year in a thread about lack of content for higher end players, I can’t help you.

Jierdanit wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I agree with you, the entitlement is shocking. I hope many of the entitled players in question are able to find a single-player game they can invest in, seems like they’d be happier there.

Are you advocating for LESS players in ESO? Because less players is a great way to kill the game.

I'm advocating for people who are unhappy with ESO to find a game that they enjoy. A total shift in ESO towards single-player and casualizing everything and making PvP easily PvE-accessible would destroy the game we have now for the benefit of people who might just be happier playing a different game. I say this mostly because of complaints against the combat system as a whole along with complaints that other people exist in an online game.

Let's be honest here, if the removal of the people in question will kill the game then TES6 is going to kill ESO.

TES6 is years away. We are talking about Bethesda here.

And there are more casual players than hardcore end gamers. So by your logic, maybe the hardcore players should be the ones go play their single player “souls/rouge-like” games and let the majority of players have their fun.

I'm just advocating for people who are unhappy that other players getting to enjoy themselves by finally doing trials and such, to go find a “hardcore” game that they enjoy.

•••

See? This works both ways.

There are players who are not going to get better;

they are tired from a long day at work,
they don’t take games that seriously,
their time is limited due to RL issues,
they may have old outdated computers,
they are simply older, etc (whatever).

We should be a community that supports each other. Try to make the eso family larger.

Don’t advocate for players to leave the game. Think of ways we can all share the toys.

It's funny when the casual players who have almost all the "toys" in this game ask endgame PvE and PvP players to share theirs.

To add onto this: It's especially funny if this argument is brought up by a guy, who partied openly here in forums the last time a bunch of endgamers left.

Link?

Sure, no problem:

BlueRaven wrote: »

LordDragonMara wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

It's time for other people to enjoy endgame content. It's has been inaccessible for the majority.

It was accessible to you, but you didn't want to put the work to get there. It's still going to be inaccessible for you, and we can on bet on that.
Also making the vets players mad with this changes, a lot of them will quit, and a lot of others won't be happy with the casuals, good luck getting into some of their group.

If a lot of them quit, will zos finally stop wasting money on producing two dungeon dlcs a year? Seems like a win to me.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/611855/competitive-players-the-most-mistreated-eso-demographic/p1

Even more funny that he seems to think the dungeon DLCs aren't casual content.
Since they are most definitely not actually Endgame content.

You do know you can just click on the quote to see the whole back and forth, right? Maybe read context BEFORE commenting?



So no one, not even the person defending the dungeon difficulty, agrees that the dungeon dlcs in question should be considered “casual content”.

If you disagree, you can go back and take it up with them.

DLC dungeons at least on vet might not be easily accessible to casual players, that doesn't make them Endgame content.

The point is that casual pve players effectively get at least 1.5 updates a year just for them (even if you take out Dungeon DLCs from that, which i still find strange), while endgame PvE gets 1 Trials and Endgame PvP didn't get anything for about 5 years.

So instead of asking the endgame players to share their small amount of content maybe share your content with them first.
How would you feel about overland PvP in other Zones than Cyro and IC?

Just because YOU don’t consider some dlc dungeons high end does not decree it so to the players at large. Some dlc dungeons require higher end worthy styles of gameplay to finish.

Casual players DID get 1.5 per year, now they just get one. Which they have to pay out of pocket for.

Zos is not giving casual questing now for free.

One chapter, not included in eso+ until it’s a year old (? still not sure how that works) is the apparent new cadence. Meanwhile “endless dungeons” are on the horizon, and I doubt those will be an extra charge to eso+ subscribers.

If people wanted to do overland pvp, cyrodiil/IC would be a lot more popular. And besides there is pvp in those other “base” questing areas, it’s called “dueling”, you should look into it.

Well you're not going to find a lot of people doing prolonged endgame in DLC dungeons in this game.
So yes they are higher tier than overland, but they're not endgame.

Imo casual players still get 3.5 updates a year but i don't think we're ever gonna agree on that, since we obviously have very different opinions of what casual is.

You definitely did get 2 overland zones every year since morrowind came out (and 3 before that), while endgame got 1 or 2 trials a year and pvp got basically nothing since IC and BGs.
Everyone has to pay for everything and I doubt Endless dungeons are going to be endgame either from what I've heard so far tbh.

Cyrodiil and IC would be a lot more popular if ZOS didn't completely ignore that playerbase and the garbage performance in PvP for ages.
Dueling is something entirely different to open world PvP though and you perfectly well know that.

Sepultura_13

From what I've seen / encountered in-game, the "entitled" players are the elitist, end-gaming gatekeepers who are besties with others in supported and promoted "Stream Team" guilds. If you don't know the "right" people then you're labeled a "n00b" who needs to "git gud!" Same with being told that I can only use three of the nine playable races, and only build them a certain way, and only use certain armor/weapon/skills/attributes/CP placement to do Trials or specific DLC content.

I've played since 2014, always on PC / NA, had ESO+ and enjoyed PvP content a bit more than PvE grinds. Now there's nothing but toxicity, bots, and lag-hackers who directly interfere with anything and everything I do in-game. I don't need every single achievement to be happy since FOMO isn't a thing for me, but I didn't think that I'd be required to use someone's data-mining add-ons to get, say, the Master Angler achievement. Since I can't "play my way" I finally unsubbed at the beginning of the year. The entitled elitists are the ones ruining the game, from my perspective.