ESO players seem more entitled than ever

Soarora

Asking for change is not inherently entitlement…

Real examples of entitlement I have seen here on the forums:
- Wanting the PvP motif that requires a certain rank and lots of tel var to be accessible to PvErs even though the entire point of the motif is to show off as a PvPer… as said by ZOS.
- Wanting vet and HM and trifecta content nerfed so that there’s no prog or very limited prog. Down with months long trial trifecta prog groups because that’s not how they want to play the game and they don’t think anyone should play the game that way…
- Wanting a way to get event tickets during midyear mayhem— the PVP event— without stepping foot in a PvP zone even though it’s easy to avoid PvP especially with some foreplanning. Weeks leading up to the event large groups of PvErs run around and stock up on quests. Some PvPers but it doesn’t matter if you die unless you’re hunting tel var. Can even run right past several enemy players.
- Wanting dungeon challenger rewards, particularly personalities, dropped down in difficulty to obtain.
- Wanting PvP ranks to be easier to obtain for a PvEr because of the dyes/furnishings

Tldr; stepping on the toes of players who do content that they do not do to suggest that said content should be easier or rewardless because they want a place in content they don’t think they like. Entitlement of ease of content or entitlement to every reward or achievement in the game.

What is not entitlement:
- Wishing for more overland content
- Not wanting their build nerfed
- Not wanting to join a guild
- Wanting to be able to duo or solo with companion(s) normal dungeons
- Wanting more sets to be viable

Tldr; suggestions that pertain to their usual gameplay and would not really affect anyone else.

oldbobdude

A lot of people feel entitled to tell others the “right way” to think and behave.

Malkosha

Tandor wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Customers are entitled to make feature requests. I don't see the issue. Everyone has their own opinion about how they'd like the game to play out. Devs take the feedback from all types and then make a game that will sell to a broad range of people. Pretty much the nature of online games.

Devs also need to look at the success of their game as it exists and recognise the dangers of changing things in order to attract a few new players at the potential expense of losing a lot of existing players. SOE failed to recognise that danger with SWG:NGE, and every time ZOS trivialise another aspect of ESO they take the same risk. Sooner or later a critical number of those who liked the game as it was will walk away because it's no longer that game.

For me, killing the AOE on the lightening staff is my breaking point. Between the this and the decision to only put out half of the content they've been doing every year, I'm searching for a new place to spend my money. Of course, ZOS won't miss me at all. I have an ego but not that big. The question is ... how many others are thinking like me? I agree with you. Sometimes it's best to leave things alone because you just can't know if the latest change is "the one" that will bring the house of cards down.

Braffin

I don't think the entitlement of the community is increasing, it's always been that way:
Besides endgamers and casuals there was always a third group of "veteran FOMOists" which simply can't stand that others have fun in content they don't like themselves. How get those shiny rewards? Easy, call for nerfs for all others. That's more fun than improving/adapting the own playstyle.
The very same situation we have with people, which hate this game's combat system to it's core from the very beginning.

These groups are louder now, as they aren't prioritized by zos the first time since years. Now they are ranting and telling the community that they will leave the game (which they think of course, will be the end for eso).

I_killed_Vivec

Soarora wrote: »

Asking for change is not inherently entitlement…

Real examples of entitlement I have seen here on the forums:
- Wanting the PvP motif that requires a certain rank and lots of tel var to be accessible to PvErs even though the entire point of the motif is to show off as a PvPer… as said by ZOS.
- Wanting vet and HM and trifecta content nerfed so that there’s no prog or very limited prog. Down with months long trial trifecta prog groups because that’s not how they want to play the game and they don’t think anyone should play the game that way…
- Wanting a way to get event tickets during midyear mayhem— the PVP event— without stepping foot in a PvP zone even though it’s easy to avoid PvP especially with some foreplanning. Weeks leading up to the event large groups of PvErs run around and stock up on quests. Some PvPers but it doesn’t matter if you die unless you’re hunting tel var. Can even run right past several enemy players.
- Wanting dungeon challenger rewards, particularly personalities, dropped down in difficulty to obtain.
- Wanting PvP ranks to be easier to obtain for a PvEr because of the dyes/furnishings

Tldr; stepping on the toes of players who do content that they do not do to suggest that said content should be easier or rewardless because they want a place in content they don’t think they like. Entitlement of ease of content or entitlement to every reward or achievement in the game.

What is not entitlement:
- Wishing for more overland content
- Not wanting their build nerfed
- Not wanting to join a guild
- Wanting to be able to duo or solo with companion(s) normal dungeons
- Wanting more sets to be viable

Tldr; suggestions that pertain to their usual gameplay and would not really affect anyone else.

Interesting... mainly PvP "achievements" that you say PvEers want without having to PvP. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

SilverPaws

I agree with the OP only the entitlement was always there and it's the sole reason for many nerfs and dumbing down of the game to the point it's no longer enjoyable.

PvP skillgap is nonexistent (just procs) and PvE is really easy overall now too (insane powercreep). Dots and buffs last forever. Extremely easy sustain/tons of easy burst heals/tons of hots. The game is easier it has ever been unlike some people been saying there isn't a skillgap. If you aren't catching up you are simply not trying to.

You'll still have people though complaining it's not enough. Thinking they should have access to everything without putting in any work. Just cause they don't have enough time or willingness to put in any work into getting good.

Shara_Wynn

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The people who want more difficult content for the low end content like questing, and the people who want vet trials to be more accessible so it's easier to find groups are both correct imo. The gap is too much. And both are constantly complained about at a highly sustained level for years because the gap is genuinely too wide. I actually think they've done a good job overall of tackling that issue and the game is in a healthier spot than a couple of years ago, skill gap wise.

Absolutely. There is like regular questing which is for most people not challenging, then there is the proverbial falling off a cliff edge which is veteran trials and DLC dungeons and NOTHING in between.

Why ZOS has to have such a VAST segregation between these two types of content, I cannot fathom.

I don't see what the harm is in asking for something in between these too levels. Most games run through a range of difficulties in content, not just easy and then really hard. Where is the progression from one to the other? It's no wonder most folk don't go near Trials because the rest of the game has done very little to actually prepare them for any kind of challenge what so ever.

That is entirely on ZOS.

SilverPaws wrote: »

You'll still have people though complaining it's not enough. Thinking they should have access to everything without putting in any work. Just cause they don't have enough time or willingness to put in any work into getting good.

Many people want content that is more challenging than what the average five year old could master. This doesn't mean that they want to have instant and easy access to all the more difficult content in the game. Surely there can be something in the middle. And it doesn't mean that they don't want to "work" for it, it just means that they don't want to have to group with 11 other people and commit to doing so over and over again in a Trial progression group in order to have a bit more challenge and enjoyment to the game.

I personally have only just started doing Trials with an absolutely fantastic guild who are super supportive and quite fabulous with their organization of events, that seem, designed to bridge the gap between easy solo play and the more difficult group content in the game. However, not everyone wants to join a guild or do Trials, but that doesn't mean that they can't ask for something in between that is more challenging.

I remember the times in EQ when, if you died, you left behind a corpse with ALL your gear on it. Which pretty much meant you were well and truly [snip] and you weren't getting it back from, say, the Plane of Fear without a guild of 30+ people to help you haha. It rotted after a number of days which meant you lost ALL YOUR GEAR, and in that game, your gear was EVERYTHING. You couldn't do jack [snip] without it. That was the "end game" but at least there was challenging content in between for everyone else.

I have to agree though, that players asking for a PvE version of Cyrodiil, is however, just a wee bit ridiculous.

Sepultura_13 wrote: »

The entitled elitists are the ones ruining the game, from my perspective.

Isn't that always the way in life.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Panchaea

It's not right to point the finger at players when the game expects you to fork out cash every time you want something cool and offers you little in exchange for playing the game or even provides support to PVE/PVP gameplay. When was the last tie PVP got any substantial upgrades or additions, besides adding one cosmetic set every Q2 that takes months to get because you're limited in obtaining commendations?

I'd understand someone complaining about not being able to get a skin from a dungeon in 2018,. You have to unlock it, after all, but in these days when the Challenger achievements (or most achievements) offer nothing, players should be more vocal about earning items, or having more meaningful content that incentivizes gameplay without nudging you to a cash shop.

Given we've been offered the same promises regarding a more "communicative" team since 2014, I think players should be more vocal than ever in their dissatisfaction, but that also means voting with your wallet.

Dr_Con

you can participate in all aspects of the game without being an endgamer or hardcore player.

you can't get all titles and hardmode achievements without setting your ego aside and putting time and effort in. Not sure why this is so hard for some people to accept.

pelle412

ESO caters to a wide audience of varying skill levels and interests. Homogenizing it so everything is doable by everyone would destroy the game. There are things in ESO I want but I don't want to put in the effort to get there and that's perfectly fine.

Comments to the effect that elitist gamekeepers are blocking you from doing something is also silly. No one is blocking you from doing anything. If you want to be on someone else's team you play by their rules. If the rules are unacceptable, you make your own team and rules.

WinterHeart626

[/quote]

The only thing customers are entitled to is the product they paid for, not any changes to that product.
They can ofc ask for anything, I simply don't understand why they would ask for things like that tbh.[/quote]

Well, I “paid” for MY plaguebreak set in time and effort farming to get those to gold, for mob clearing in PVE. One could say that the product was changed without my personal approval despite my paying for it in time and gold.
Never received the materials and time invested back after they nerfed that set into the ground, stomped on it, and basically said screw you, no refunds or reimbursement. Good times hey.
Sure I’d love to be handed stuff on a platter, but then why bother playing.
Plaguebreak being curbstomp nerfed was the final straw for me at any rate, I tend to speak with my wallet and game time, and as such, EsO hasn’t been worth any game time, let alone a single cent from my wallet. Even if my old trial crew is desperate for a healer, I tend to decline, got better stuff to play (I do occasionally pop up in the forums though).

Rant over.

Edit: what I’ve put up IS an example of entitlement.

Anifaas

Sepultura_13 wrote: »

From what I've seen / encountered in-game, the "entitled" players are the elitist, end-gaming gatekeepers who are besties with others in supported and promoted "Stream Team" guilds. If you don't know the "right" people then you're labeled a "n00b" who needs to "git gud!" Same with being told that I can only use three of the nine playable races, and only build them a certain way, and only use certain armor/weapon/skills/attributes/CP placement to do Trials or specific DLC content.

These are the people who inhabit internet gaming forums the most. We call it terminally online and it is a perspective that isn't really worth arguing with any more than arguing with a toddler.

On the internet "entitled" is a word people throw around to describe someone else asking for something different than themselves. In MMOs it is a word often used by people who base their personalities and lifestyles on games to denigrate those who do not.

The elephant in the room is that ESO is designed to be a narrative game accessible to everyone but the group play is catered to an entirely different group of people and so there is lots friction. Going from killing everything with single heavy attacks to instantly dying if you didn't move quite fast enough is quite a spread. The players didn't create the problem, ZOS did. The majority are casuals but the endgame is designed for self-proclaimed elites who subscribe to streamer culture. ZOS is the one who created this 80/20 split and this discontent is inevitable.

Personally this is why I only do casual questing in ESO and save the sweaty gaming moments for heroic raids and M+ over in WoW where the questing is bad but the endgame is well thought out and harmonized.

Amottica

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Customers are entitled to make feature requests. I don't see the issue. Everyone has their own opinion about how they'd like the game to play out. Devs take the feedback from all types and then make a game that will sell to a broad range of people. Pretty much the nature of online games.

This. I fail to see how someone's request would upset other players. Our opinions and their opinions do nothing in and of themselves other than inform Zenimax of a suggestion. It is them who decide and Zenimax is more likely to want to maintain the integrity of the game rather than ner difficulty.

Muizer

I don't think entitlement is a problem in itself. It's what people do with it. For instance, lately there have been threads about "being forced to play ToT". Now I can understand that people don't want to. I can understand when people would like an alternative way to get their lead drops. What I do not like is when this is followed up with the insinuation that ToT is somehow second rate content that should be removed / never been added. It's the same as calls that PVP should be removed from Cyrodiil or IC. That's a pointlessly aggressive and inflammatory attitude that lacks respect for other players. It's a good example of an aspect of feedback that we really should want ZOS to ignore. Thankfully so far they have.

Wolf_Eye

..

BlueRaven wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I agree with you, the entitlement is shocking. I hope many of the entitled players in question are able to find a single-player game they can invest in, seems like they’d be happier there.

Are you advocating for LESS players in ESO? Because less players is a great way to kill the game.

I'm advocating for people who are unhappy with ESO to find a game that they enjoy. A total shift in ESO towards single-player and casualizing everything and making PvP easily PvE-accessible would destroy the game we have now for the benefit of people who might just be happier playing a different game. I say this mostly because of complaints against the combat system as a whole along with complaints that other people exist in an online game.

Let's be honest here, if the removal of the people in question will kill the game then TES6 is going to kill ESO.

TES6 is years away. We are talking about Bethesda here.

And there are more casual players than hardcore end gamers. So by your logic, maybe the hardcore players should be the ones go play their single player “souls/rouge-like” games and let the majority of players have their fun.

I'm just advocating for people who are unhappy that other players getting to enjoy themselves by finally doing trials and such, to go find a “hardcore” game that they enjoy.

•••

See? This works both ways.

There are players who are not going to get better;

they are tired from a long day at work,
they don’t take games that seriously,
their time is limited due to RL issues,
they may have old outdated computers,
they are simply older, etc (whatever).

We should be a community that supports each other. Try to make the eso family larger.

Don’t advocate for players to leave the game. Think of ways we can all share the toys.

And also people who have a physical disability. I just wanted to add that to your list because it's important to me and so many people forget. I hope that's ok that I responded here.

boi_anachronism_

If im being honest i was all for the HA builds. Doing countless trials and being active in many teaching guilds i saw an increase in folks breaking into that content and many who developed a drive to expand beyond that (although i do not believe that should be a requirement for regular vet content). What i do not want is high end content to be nerfed. Hm should remain hard and trifectas should be left as is. It keeps long time players something to strive for as well as new raiders. I think a better reward system for all levels of content would mitigate some of the calls for this. Ultimately there should be achievements available to all but there should always be something left for the top tier that is a true challange and the truth is that not everyone will or can get there.

Warhawke_80

See, I think I see way more post complaining about how entitled everyone is than post asking for more access to gated features...and in the end it is Zenimax not the fans that drive what is accessible to who not us.

The average MMO developer (This is not exclusive to ZoS by any means) will tell you: "we make games that we would want to play" and since devs are usually hard core Raiders/PVP players it leave little room for other styles of play. The guys who made the short Lived Wizardry MMO said they were obsessed with with the game loop and couldn't stop playing their game...problem was no one else liked it..I'm not knocking anyone that is just an observation.

If it were as the OP suggest we would have a much more expansive Companion system that would let solo players play through vet Dungeons and Trials like FFXIV Trust system or the upcoming "Dungeon Follower" System in WoW, but as is Companions are little more than pets that have no clue how to play the game.

No the gates are still locked, despite the fact that it seems little to no people are doing end game content and that's fine with me... besides most players are concerned about other issues like performance, rewards, the Business model, crafting, Housing..etc etc than to worry about a casual stepping foot in a Trial.

MaraxusTheOrc

tincanman wrote: »

I doubt it's really about making it easier or unrewarding of effort - it's just the logistics of life and making the whole game or most of it accessible to as many as possible within the limited time people individually have available to play.

Customers are entitled to request whatever features they want of this product - they are, after all, paying or have paid for it.

This mentality of “customers are entitled to request whatever…” is the exact entitlement OP is talking about. You’re a customer. You purchased a product based on how it exists. You don’t get to then dictate for the life of said product it’s direction, evolution, feature list forever. There’s feedback and there’s entitlement. Constantly parading out “I’m a customer, so I want…” is entitlement.

wilykcat

I'm very into both the game (mostly dungeons and then everything else, I don't understand the lore yet) and the forums 😉.

sarahthes

Anifaas wrote: »

The majority are casuals but the endgame is designed for self-proclaimed elites who subscribe to streamer culture. ZOS is the one who created this 80/20 split and this discontent is inevitable.

Wut?

The majority of ESO streamers are housing streamers.

Housing is the real endgame confirmed!

ArchangelIsraphel

(The random bolded areas in my post are for PVE players who might like a few tips- just wanted to highlight them in the midst of my wall of text)

When it comes to the Whitestrakes Mayhem debacle every year, I don't personally believe that the sentiments revolving around the event come from a place of entitlement. I feel that the come from a place of frustration.

I'm saying this as a player who absolutely loves Whitestrakes Mayhem and deliberately schedules time off to participate in the event as much as possible, for as long as possible. (By the same token, I am also a PVE player- I participate in as many aspects of the game as I can, at least those that make me the happiest.)

The biggest problem with Whitestrakes Mayhem is that Zenimax has chosen to make it a required event in order to obtain tickets for the quarterly collectibles. Participation is absolutely necessary if one wants to obtain these items with relative ease throughout the year.

This is understandably frustrating for PVE players, especially when they obtained all of the other pieces of a collectable from PVE, they suddenly must participate in PVP to finish off that collectable. Typically, it is the second quarter collectable that is effected by Whitestrakes Mayhem. When tickets for quarterly collectables are primarily obtained through PVE means, it is upsetting to a PVE player to have to participate in a play style they regularly avoid in order to complete what they began in a PVE setting.

To them, it feels as if they are being forced into a PVP setting- and they aren't wrong. It is quite obvious to me that the event is set up this way in order to deliberately pull PVE players into Cyrodiil and IC, where they would rather not be. (Yes, yes, I know "They don't have to get these collectibles, they can just not do it!" Something something FOMO. But when they got 2/3 pieces of a collectible through PVE, it is understandable upsetting when they suddenly have to PVP for the 3rd. Especially if they were unaware that this would be the pattern of events.)

In my personal opinion, Whitestrakes Mayhem should be disconnected from the quarterly collectable cycle and turned into its own, independent event that does not grant event tickets, but still has its own rewards and drops. While this would still cause some friction within the PVE community who would miss out on those rewards, the pressure caused by needing event tickets for the quarterly collectables would be eliminated.

(But Archangel, PVP players have to PVE for their event tickets! Thats not fair either!- no, it isn't, and that's why Zeni should work on running an entirely separate set of events for PVP players, with PVP related rewards that would benefit us, instead of placing a piece of a primarily PVE event inside of PVP areas to bait PVE players into them)

While one might argue that the population within the PVP zones is raised by the presence of event tickets and that they are necessary to the success of the event, I don't feel that this is true. Those that just want their event tickets get in, and get out again if they aren't being ganked by people who have nothing more productive to do. They don't add to the population during these events other than to clog up our queue and lengthen queue times. The people who want to be there, are there for the AP, and they are out there taking forts and enjoying the double bonuses for doing so. A lot of us could care less about the event tickets or Impresario because we're having a great time running around Cyro and IC.

Some PVE players who are curious about PVP get their feet wet for the first time during Whitestrakes and they really enjoy it. But for those who don't, I have a lot of compassion for them. PVP is an activity that takes a certain temperament to enjoy- it can be stressful, it can be frustrating, and I can understand why it would feel extremely upsetting that a game you go to in order to escape would put you in a position where you feel you are under attack. Some of us like that adrenaline rush, and a lot of us don't.

That isn't fun for you, and as a PVP player, that isn't fun for me either. I want to fight people who want to fight me in turn. I want to learn from those better than I am, and I want to enjoy a good battle. I don't want to inadvertently run down a quester just because they happened to be too close to an enemy zerg. The only time I kill people that I assume to be questers is if they are taking a resource, or in some way touching my objectives- if you are in a town, I avoid you, unless you fire on me first.

Removing the tickets from Whitestrakes and putting them in a different event would alleviate much of the tension surrounding PVP, and a lot of the negativity aimed at PVP players. Cyrodiil will still get a population if we are tempted with AP. We don't need the tickets.

(A tip for any PVE player reading- a few weeks before Whitestrakes Mayhem, pre-load your account with IC and Cyrodiil PVE quests, but don't turn them in. Wait until the event starts, then turn in one of each every day for your tickets. While you may encounter some PVP outside of Whitestrakes, it is nothing compared to how aggressive things get during Whitestrakes. I do this for myself before Whitestrakes so that I don't have to worry about event tickets while I'm farming AP, and it works like a charm. I barely see a single soul.)

As for the desire for a PVE version of Cyrodiil and IC to explore? I don't think that comes from a place of entitlement either- that just comes out of a desire to have an adventure, while not wanting others to disrupt them. But, I'll be honest, you're not missing much down in IC. If you want to see what the IC sewers looks like, all you have to do is load up Wayrest Sewers I and thats...basically it. IC is just larger, and more irritating to navigate.

BUT, if anyone who PVE's wants to see Cyro or IC without being bothered by PVP- I highly recommend downloading the test server, if you have the disk space for it. The test server remains accessible outside of testing periods, and pretty much -no one- is there to bother you. Go visit Cyro and IC after the testing of a major patch is over, and you'll have a great big ghost town of a map all to yourself to enjoy. I go there to test siege engines and mess around all the time without being bothered at all.


(ETA To Add: Wanting strictly PVP dyes, achievements, and furnishings to be made accessible to strictly PVE players can definitely come off as entitled. These things should not be accessible through any other means than PVP, and the work put in by PVP players to obtain them.)

sarahthes

@ArchangelIsraphel

The flaw in your argument about disconnecting PvE and PvP events is this:

PvE folks will still want the PvP rewards. Doesn't matter if they're different rewards. If they're cosmetic at all... they'll want them, and complain about them being inaccessible.

ArchangelIsraphel

sarahthes wrote: »

@ArchangelIsraphel

The flaw in your argument about disconnecting PvE and PvP events is this:

PvE folks will still want the PvP rewards. Doesn't matter if they're different rewards. If they're cosmetic at all... they'll want them, and complain about them being inaccessible.

I already mentioned that in my post, which is why I said it would alleviate the friction surrounding tickets and quarterly collectibles, but not the friction surrounding PVP specific collectibles. I'm well aware that people will want the PVP specific collectibles, and in that case, they will then have to make the choice to PVP or not.

The problem with the quarterly collectibles is that they begin with PVE events, then ask you to go do PVP events to get the rest of your fragments. If a collectible is PVP specific, it is asking you to PVP at the outset, and in that case, you either choose to PVP, or you don't get it at all.

Removing the tickets, however, and placing them in a different event, would help considerably. I see no reason to tie the quarterly collectibles to PVP, especially since they have nothing to do with PVP at all. (And frankly speaking, I'd rather PVP with people who actually want to PVP during Whitestrakes, and would like to see the event cator to PVP players more than it does already, without involving event tickets.)

sarahthes

You would alienate the few remaining PvPers a lot more than you would appease the PvEers with your strategy.

Ticket items cycle back, and everything is available at New Life for the entire year. There's plenty of options to make up the missing tickets, including the crown store (using gold, once gifting is re-enabled).

ArchangelIsraphel

sarahthes wrote: »

You would alienate the few remaining PvPers a lot more than you would appease the PvEers with your strategy.

Ticket items cycle back, and everything is available at New Life for the entire year. There's plenty of options to make up the missing tickets, including the crown store (using gold, once gifting is re-enabled).

In what way would this alienate PVP players? Designing the event around PVP players, with more PVP rewards in mind, would only make me all the more happy to return to Cyro during Whitestrakes. I'm suggesting that we make Whitestrakes better, and offer even more than it does, while putting event tickets somewhere else. It would be nice if our one PVP event actually focused on us, instead of focusing on the quarterly collectibles that have absolutely nothing to do with PVP. I wouldn't feel alienated by getting rewards that actually relate to the game mode I'm playing.

I have no problem with getting event tickets personally, I'm only making a suggestion that I feel would resolve an underlying issue with why PVE players complain. I don't personally believe they're entitled for wanting to finish their quarterly collectibles without participating in a game mode they hate.

sarahthes

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

You would alienate the few remaining PvPers a lot more than you would appease the PvEers with your strategy.

Ticket items cycle back, and everything is available at New Life for the entire year. There's plenty of options to make up the missing tickets, including the crown store (using gold, once gifting is re-enabled).

In what way would this alienate PVP players? Designing the event around PVP players, with more PVP rewards in mind, would only make me all the more happy to return to Cyro during Whitestrakes. I'm suggesting that we make Whitestrakes better, and offer even more than it does, while putting event tickets somewhere else. It would be nice if our one PVP event actually focused on us, instead of focusing on the quarterly collectibles that have absolutely nothing to do with PVP. I wouldn't feel alienated by getting rewards that actually relate to the game mode I'm playing.

I have no problem with getting event tickets personally, I'm only making a suggestion that I feel would resolve an underlying issue with why PVE players complain. I don't personally believe they're entitled for wanting to finish their quarterly collectibles without participating in a game mode they hate.

Because PvPers also want those collectibles, and have to participate in a game mode they hate to get them.

You're catering to one side and not the other.

Bobargus

I'm a casual player, who prefers playing all games on the easiest difficulty, even in online games.

Why try accommodating to the demands of a game, when i can just choose to roleplay as a strong hero and do everything from beginning to the end, without being restricted in any way?

This mindset works on games like Skyrim, but not on ESO.

Because of this reason alone, unless ESO offers the same amount of flexibility that Skyrim does at the very least; without needing any gear, champion points, levels, weapons, and/or skills to make things easier and work smoothly, in my opinion, ESO will never be better than games like Skyrim, where you can just set your own rules if you want to, with or without mods.

SkaiFaith

As I was trying to make a point in this thread (now closed even tough it was still feedback for ESO) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644395/discussion-at-what-difficulty-do-you-play-any-game-usually-difficulty-gap-explained#latest there are people that when purchase a game expect/wish to be able to clear it at the lowest difficulty, because that's how they play any game. It's not a weird concept wanting to be able to enjoy a story in its fullest form at a difficulty one can manage without worries.

With that said, sure imposing any difficulty, super easy or super hard, is bad, but I'd think having in ESO these two extremes can make a lot of people happy, both the ERPers and the Hardcore Competitors.

When people ask for content to be more easily accessible I think they do it mostly to be able to see the stories: I would like to be able to Solo Raids, but I have no interest at all in seeing my name in leaderboards. I just want to see the story without having to group with 11 strangers.

Yes, it's an MMO, I get it, but many like me just enjoy being surrounded by like-minded people without ever interacting with them, maybe because they are shy or don't have the personality to stand online players. Honestly I can't see it like "they want everything handled to them", I don't think it's the case, at least for the most part...

boi_anachronism_

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

@ArchangelIsraphel

The flaw in your argument about disconnecting PvE and PvP events is this:

PvE folks will still want the PvP rewards. Doesn't matter if they're different rewards. If they're cosmetic at all... they'll want them, and complain about them being inaccessible.

I already mentioned that in my post, which is why I said it would alleviate the friction surrounding tickets and quarterly collectibles, but not the friction surrounding PVP specific collectibles. I'm well aware that people will want the PVP specific collectibles, and in that case, they will then have to make the choice to PVP or not.

The problem with the quarterly collectibles is that they begin with PVE events, then ask you to go do PVP events to get the rest of your fragments. If a collectible is PVP specific, it is asking you to PVP at the outset, and in that case, you either choose to PVP, or you don't get it at all.

Removing the tickets, however, and placing them in a different event, would help considerably. I see no reason to tie the quarterly collectibles to PVP, especially since they have nothing to do with PVP at all. (And frankly speaking, I'd rather PVP with people who actually want to PVP during Whitestrakes, and would like to see the event cator to PVP players more than it does already, without involving event tickets.)

My genuine question to you is this:

What rewards would you purpose giving to pvpers exclusively that pve players wouldnt be upset that they are required to do the content to get? Everyone wants cool cosmetics, dyes, mounts, ect. Wouldnt that just create the same issue? Otherwise you would have to come up with completely new pvp related items and i cant even fathom what that might be. As it is ive seen many people still get upset that legate black requires pvp and thats just a dye.

Arizona_Steve

SkaiFaith wrote: »

When people ask for content to be more easily accessible I think they do it mostly to be able to see the stories: I would like to be able to Solo Raids, but I have no interest at all in seeing my name in leaderboards. I just want to see the story without having to group with 11 strangers.

I'm the same, but I prefer solo content to group content for one main reason: I hate Hate HATE letting the other members of my group down.

Case in point. I did a Bastion Nymic a few days ago. I was fine until the last boss and then:

I messed up somewhere and got one-shotted.
I was resurrected by one of the other players - and was immediately one-shotted again.
And after getting resurrected again I died once more before the boss went down.

Now, I've done several of these during the Telvanni event and managed to stay alive. But the above was embarrassing and I have not attempted a Bastion Nymic since.