This is why nobody dies in PvP

StarOfElyon

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

xHotguy6pack wrote: »

Here's a super crazy ide, you ready? Disable proc sets entirely in Cyrodiil. Man the game was 100x better when there were none. It really showed what needed balancing. Nowadays the game basically plays for you. Then gradually add ones in such as Pariah or BSW. You know, ones that aren't completely absurd? The Greymoor patch really ruined ESO PvP and the constant needs to things that didn't need it. PvP needs to go back to the hulking Drauger/Bright throat meta.

Really sick of people trying to gut out over half the games equip sets for made up reasons.... Why so many procists? I looooove proc sets. Yes, the overperforming ones need to be nerfed, for sure. I hate when certain procs becomes waaay OP. But to cry for full removal of procs altogether is just wrong. Procs make for build creativity! I can't tell you how many awesome builds I've made over the years that centered around a proc effect thematically.

Procs are GOOD! Overpowered procs failing to receive nerfs are bad. No different than a stat set that would give 1200 wep/spell damage. That would be baaaad, overpowered, but would not justify people demanding stats be disabled.

You love AFK sets ?

But I get it, proc sets are like an AI bot which can play the game for you in eso while you can concentrate IRL.

Training wheel sets.

SandandStars

Proc sets should never have been as overtuned as they are/were.

A single proc (Masters DW) should never have been designed so out of alignment with existing gear sets.

BUT, this is from the perspective of someone who thinks a balanced system of classes and gear would lead to much more diverse playing styles and dynamic, interesting pvp combat. An eso dinosaur, in other words.

JerBearESO

I don't think, if I even remember correctly, that masters DW originally increased the damage of the direct damage part of the ability. The DoT pressure it adds is actually mediocre, about 800 per second dps, low for a proc dot. The problem with it is that it applies that DoT while hitting as hard as a spamable, so the receiver is put into defense vs DoT pressure too easily.

Just need the proc to not occur on the direct damage part....

master_vanargand

Need change Vampire's Undeath passive to Major Protection.

Bashev

master_vanargand wrote: »

Need change Vampire's Undeath passive to Major Protection.

It is not only this. Yes undeath should be addressed but the block healing is an issue too. Basically 2 good players with good builds cannot kill each other. Very often I have these situations where, we just run away from each other as there is no way to kill each other.

TechMaybeHic

Bashev wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Need change Vampire's Undeath passive to Major Protection.

It is not only this. Yes undeath should be addressed but the block healing is an issue too. Basically 2 good players with good builds cannot kill each other. Very often I have these situations where, we just run away from each other as there is no way to kill each other.

I'm torn on thus statement as I get what you're saying 1 vs 1, but the past update or 2; I've run lower resists and more damage to be able to kill by myself. And that of course opens me up to being more killable. And the more turtled up builds are popular as their slight deficiency in damage is covered up by focusing damage. I'm not saying I expect to 1 vs X but in a group vs group fight; I rely a lot on a good timed block cast burst heal and a HOT into a roll dodge

That is to say to be careful to not just push more I to an even more mitigation meta.

Heals_With_Orbs

Fkey wrote: »

World of Vamps

Up to 30% across the board damage reduction from Undeath.
All types, all ticks, bursts, all of it.
Flame damage increase is ignorable, and also gets reduced.
Fighter ability damage increase is only 20%, is also subject to the Undeath reduction, and requires slotting specific skills.
Silver shards - okayish. Traps - next to useless. Dawnbreaker - good if it lands.
So 2 abilities that are okayish.
All to fight what is arguably more of a crutch than any gear set whether nerfed or pre-nerf.
If you don't take Undeath you are nerfing yourself.
Can you fight as a mortal - yes, as long as you are willing to accept the fact
--you will lose more than if you took Undeath--

Not everyone wants to be forced to be a cannibal monstrosity.
They could just buff mortal damage versus vampire players to the point that this choice of crutch is no longer necessary, and dies out as such an appealing choice.

There is also the problem that they are nerfing/buffing based on the assumption that everyone (pvp) takes Undeath.
Undeath is/was a big hole that got dug, and I doubt they will change it.

Interesting this world of vamps.

There seems to be a part of this world of vamps that zos haven chosen to ignore....

Of course we all know that creatures of the night like vamps can walk around in the day time, and werewolves can transform whenever they choose....nothing to do with a full moon or anything...

Anyways, your right, not everyone wants to be a creature of the NIGHT. Yes thats N I G H T.

Why does a game puts you in a position where "you must do this or basically be inferior" and rewrite the rules of lore of age old monsters? well......anyway.....

Perhaps that 30% damage mitigation should be the other way around as a penalty for walking around during daylight hours or having "lack of sleep" etc

If zos really insist in making up their own rules, there should be some counter to it.

ZOS - please can we have garlic infused holy water pistols like the Frog Brothers do on the vamp movie The Lost Boys?

olsborg

Bashev wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Need change Vampire's Undeath passive to Major Protection.

It is not only this. Yes undeath should be addressed but the block healing is an issue too. Basically 2 good players with good builds cannot kill each other. Very often I have these situations where, we just run away from each other as there is no way to kill each other.

Yes, imo it is too easy to stay alive vs killing someone, and if you specc your build into more dmg to be able to kill someone tanky you will actually end up taking more dmg then the tank, if you both atk eachother, because it just pays off to build for defence. Its like building for defence is worth 1.5 points and building for offence is worth 1.2 points. The higher point is obviously better.

FireBreathingNord

PvP encounters often require adjusting your setup and skills based on what you're up against. The first fight usually reveals the type of build you're facing, and then you can modify your strategy accordingly in subsequent fights with the same player. You yourself are a vampire with Undeath ;-)

Against tanky builds stacking resistances and self-heals, slotting an execute or applying execute pressure could help overcome their survivability. But as you mentioned, the opportunity cost of giving up other skills may be too high depending on your class and playstyle.

Rather than expecting one universal build to handle every opponent, adapting and pivoting based on each fight is key. Having the right toolbox of skills and gear to tweak your loadout as needed can help counter different types of players.

Skilled players can still overcome strong builds by adjusting their approach - skill and adaptability matters more than just optimal builds. Each fight presents a chance to learn and evolve your loadout options.

FireBreathingNord

Additionally, I find that continuously nerfing certain passives or abilities can end up negatively impacting (the majority) average players more than highly-skilled veterans:

Skilled players are more versatile and can pivot faster to new optimal builds when old ones get nerfed. They may have deeper knowledge and experience adapting.

Casual players take more time to learn one build. If it gets changed repeatedly, they have to re-learn instead of getting comfortable.

Extensive nerfs rewards general gameplay skill and system knowledge more than individual build mastery. Skilled players excel there.

Passive nerfs often hit casual solo or small group players hardest by making survival more difficult.

Frequent changes cater to theorycrafters and those "in the know" versus average players.

TechMaybeHic

olsborg wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Need change Vampire's Undeath passive to Major Protection.

It is not only this. Yes undeath should be addressed but the block healing is an issue too. Basically 2 good players with good builds cannot kill each other. Very often I have these situations where, we just run away from each other as there is no way to kill each other.

Yes, imo it is too easy to stay alive vs killing someone, and if you specc your build into more dmg to be able to kill someone tanky you will actually end up taking more dmg then the tank, if you both atk eachother, because it just pays off to build for defence. Its like building for defence is worth 1.5 points and building for offence is worth 1.2 points. The higher point is obviously better.

The base damage everyone has is too high and the damage stats granted by sets too low or conditional to where procs often add more damage than any stat set

Zama666

@StaticWave question - isn't that the idea behind a tank - not die, taunt, but maybe don't do the most damage? Like a distraction?

JerBearESO

Zama666 wrote: »

@StaticWave question - isn't that the idea behind a tank - not die, taunt, but maybe don't do the most damage? Like a distraction?

Not die should never be an element of PvP. Die slowly is ok....

olsborg

Id also like to add an experience: Why slot an execute these days, its a wasted space in 90% of fights because blocked executes deal no more dmg

Zama666 wrote: »

@StaticWave question - isn't that the idea behind a tank - not die, taunt, but maybe don't do the most damage? Like a distraction?

the problem with the tankmeta in pvp these last years or so, is that most tanky builds can still dish out enough dmg to kill ppl, expecially those that arent tanks, but rather built for damage, the tank will have the advantage because they both deal similar dmg to eachother, but the tank can easily utilize/abuse the blockheal mechanic without much cost...the DD cannot

IncultaWolf

master_vanargand wrote: »

Need change Vampire's Undeath passive to Major Protection.

major + minor protection would be balanced, the unique 30% mitigation is a big issue