Not enough bag space even with upgrades

JTWolph_ESO

ironvosneb18_ESO wrote: »

There is more than enough bagspace to allow for comfortable playing of the game.
You just have to think a bit about how you use it.
Don't just dump everything in a pile in your bank and alts and cry it's all filled.
I level up 5/6 crafts (not doing provisioning) on one character without any mules and i have space enough.

You state that you are leveling up 5/6 crafts on one character. Which means that you are getting levels toward the profession but either not spending skill points into each profession, not spending enough skill points to really invest in each profession, or investing many of this one character's skill points into all the profession skills to the detriment of your combat/healing abilities. But either way, if you use all your mats right away for each profession in the cycle of: Craft, Deconstruct, Craft, Deconstruct... ad infinitum or until you run out of mats, then, yes, you will not have any storage issues because you are using up most of your mats at once. But that method only works if you are focusing on a single character that is doing all professions.

Saying "not doing provisioning" implies that you either think provisioning is not important at all OR you recognize that the vast volume of provisioning mats would cause problems.

You say "Don't just dump everything in a pile in your bank and alts....". Well sir, if I could put it all in a single pile, there would be no space issues. But I don't just dump everything in to my bank or alts. I set aside the materials that my current character gathers for use on my alternate characters. I am not "hoarding", I am trying to manage my time by gathering all the materials that will be used by one of the eight characters that were included with my purchase.

If the game was designed so that you could *only* have one character at a time and they made it so you could only work on *only* one or two professions, then your point would be valid. In that case, there is no reason to save materials that are not going to be used right away. But that isn't how the game was designed.

Based on how the game was designed in every other area, aside from the small bank, they want you to be able to do all forms of crafting on a single character as indicated by the lack of limits to how many professions you can choose. You just might not want to invest all your skill points into every profession skill possible. They want you to gather from every node you find as you play, as is indicated by the many Achievements. And then there are all the developer interviews, videos, and comments from the past few years that stated that they want players to have the freedom to *CHOOSE* what they do with their time while playing ESO. At no point did anyone say that we must play only one character at a time until it hits 50 and while doing a maximum of 2 professions, either literally or by communicating it with the structure of the game.

We simply want to be able to do things our way. Or at least, find out if they will make changes so that we can do things our way. It is reasonable to believe that if they discover the difficulties we encounter with our chosen play-style, that they will make changes to improve the game for us. If they have no intention to make any changes, all it will take is a simple response to that affect and we will cease our complaints and either adapt or stop playing the game.

Whether they change the game or not, I fail to see how it effects people who do not share our choice in play-style.

LadyChaos

I prefer shared bank myself. I never liked crafter alts or mules personally. As time goes on you will expand the space enough to focus.

Don't forget horses can up bag space too(in case i missed it mentioned)
This is the same dilemma that you are faced with the 5 slotted skills.. you have the ability to do everything, but the restriction is what do you want to major in at this very moment in time...? IMO

merwanoreb17_ESO

I love the game and I am truly enjoying myself, except I keep getting frustrated and frustrated by the constant inventory and bank management. I truly hate and despise managing an inventory, it is not fun at all.

I can't even imagine how annoying this game will be when trying to level alts... A shared bank and only 60 slots to begin with. I don't know how big the max bank is, but if it is anything lower than like 100-200, then I see a lot of frustrated players in the future for this game.

Either increase the bank by 100-200 initial storage space, and you increase for each upgrade by at least 20 or 40. Or make materials not take any space at all. I never really liked Guild Wars 2, but how they did crafting storage was brilliant.

Mengari

Well they have 27 days left to fix the bank problem. I really like the game but I can't continue to pay for something that in my view and game style is frustrating and a game breaker. The system as it is now with inventory and a shared bank is great. They just forgot to add a private bank to every char you have. Add a private bank, same size as the shared bank with the same upgrades and everything will be ok for us that is altoholics. In 27 days they will get my money or they wont.

JTWolph_ESO

I already canceled. If they fix the issue I will re-subscribe. There are many ways they can resolve it so I won't be picky. I just want it resolved.

madame.kiraeb17_ESO

Much agreed with OP, need more bag space.. I have upgraded as much as I can afford, and this is just not enough. I have created alts just for putting materials on. And now I am mailing my hubby excess materials and having them send it back, since I can't mail myself. I have tried selling what isn't used, but it's never enough. Please consider something like GW2's crafting system, where there are special crafting materials-only bags. The amount of materials in this game is unreal..and just not enough storage.

dumbo

There's a bunch of things that could be done to mitigate this:
- style gems for 'common style' are not good. They're painful to find in your inventory, they aren't worth much, you can trivially buy them from crafting vendors and they drop like candy. (remove them from all drop tables and decrease the price a little bit to compensate?)
- potions. I have 4x level 18 health potions, 5x level 20 health potions, 5x level 18 stamina potions, 4x level 20 stamina potions.... there's very little difference between a level 20 and level 18 potion - but they don't stack. (given there's only 1 quickslot, I'm not sure how many people use "non-health" potions either)
- selling junk. It's a chore. I want to discard white items, crafting junk that stacks badly (provisions) etc. This means every time I reach a shopkeeper I need to trawl through the entire list.
- deconstructing. From the deconstruction list I can't compare an item to my currently worn item, nor can I see whether the trait on the item has been researched.
- bank/enchanter/locations. I deconstruct armour at A, ride to the enchanter at B and zone inside, then zone back outdoors, ride to the bank, zone inside, deposit my stuff, zone outside... Was all that necessary? (the bank has 50 people all crowded into a tiny room around a single NPC - which looks rather silly)
- pets/maps. These really shouldn't consume inventory slots.

Sakiri

thilog wrote: »

eq2imora_ESO wrote: »

Blizzard shut the AH in D3 for a reason alright.

Buying gear instead of finding it isn't fun and
The RMAH was causing legal headaches in other regions.

Didn't know they'd closed it. I played D3 for about 2 days.. before shelving it. After all the hype and years of waiting.. waste of money.

Whilst I'd like an AH here.. I like the game without one.

I played through 60 on all difficulties on a few characters and I play to putz around. I never got hardcore into diablo games like some did with D2 and always avoided b.net.

Played D3 much the same as I did D2 and felt fine with it.

Then again I also didnt buy it. WoW annual pass.

Sakiri

ironvosneb18_ESO wrote: »

There is more than enough bagspace to allow for comfortable playing of the game.
You just have to think a bit about how you use it.
Don't just dump everything in a pile in your bank and alts and cry it's all filled.
I level up 5/6 crafts (not doing provisioning) on one character without any mules and i have space enough.

Prov is the space hog.

killedbyping

I honestly dont understand why there is no unlimited "Alchemical bag", "Provisioning bag" and "Enchanting bag" in this game. There is tons of materials for each of this proffesion which usualy considered as a junk and should not waste any bag space what so ever.

WhiteQueen

To add fuel to the fire: Just found out that potency runes only stack to 20.

killedbyping

WhiteQueen wrote: »

To add fuel to the fire: Just found out that potency runes only stack to 20.

The funny part is, some items like crafted daggers take a slot for each item even if they are stacked.

mr_stealth_b14_ESO

dumbo wrote: »

- deconstructing. From the deconstruction list I can't compare an item to my currently worn item, nor can I see whether the trait on the item has been researched.

I'm constantly swapping back and forth between the crafting interface and my inventory/equipped items while crafting and deconstructing. It's an annoyance that would be easily fixed by having the compare tooltips pop up on both crafting and deconstruction. Research is less of an issue, but it would still be nice to have some way of indicating whether the trait is known without looking at the research tab.

And I don't think a dedicated crafting material storage can be suggested enough. This is needed for at least alchemy and provisioning, and perhaps enchanting. The weapon/armor crafts take up only a few slots per zone/tier, and will be less need for stashed materials as character reach max level and get more permanent gear. Alchemy and provisioning are used for consumables that will always be needed, no matter what level we are. There will always be that requirement to dedicated 20 or more slots to each of these.

Provisioning is also putting even more burden on those that need to supply leveling alts in other alliances with food and drinks. You either have to send the "foreign" recipes to the crafting character, which also means storing even more ingredients in the bank, or take the crafting character back to their low level zones just to gather ingredients for low level food/drink. Neither storing 3 alliances worth of materials, nor running around Auridon on a high level for gathering, sound very appealing to me.

Halicar

dumbo wrote: »

There's a bunch of things that could be done to mitigate this:
- style gems for 'common style' are not good. They're painful to find in your inventory, they aren't worth much, you can trivially buy them from crafting vendors and they drop like candy. (remove them from all drop tables and decrease the price a little bit to compensate?)
- potions. I have 4x level 18 health potions, 5x level 20 health potions, 5x level 18 stamina potions, 4x level 20 stamina potions.... there's very little difference between a level 20 and level 18 potion - but they don't stack. (given there's only 1 quickslot, I'm not sure how many people use "non-health" potions either)
- selling junk. It's a chore. I want to discard white items, crafting junk that stacks badly (provisions) etc. This means every time I reach a shopkeeper I need to trawl through the entire list.
- deconstructing. From the deconstruction list I can't compare an item to my currently worn item, nor can I see whether the trait on the item has been researched.
- bank/enchanter/locations. I deconstruct armour at A, ride to the enchanter at B and zone inside, then zone back outdoors, ride to the bank, zone inside, deposit my stuff, zone outside... Was all that necessary? (the bank has 50 people all crowded into a tiny room around a single NPC - which looks rather silly)
- pets/maps. These really shouldn't consume inventory slots.

Very good points and I totally agree. I would like to add the ability to mail items to our alts, which would make the system work a little bit better.

I'm starting to hate the towns, the banks, the crafting areas, because of all the time I have to spend there, instead of questing and exploring. And since there ARE banks in the game - why do they have to be far from crafting areas? What exactly is the point with wasting everyone's time and patience just running around? Sure I could ditch crafting altogether, but is that how it's supposed to be? Especially when farming mats and crafting is what I usually like best in games.

Btw avoid enchanting, I have around 25 (different) runes that I can't use for lack of Aspect runes and levels, and I'm stuck leveling it because once you have translated the runes you get virtually no exp either for making or breaking glyphs.

Today I only had a few hours to play, and the bag/bank/crafting just sucked the fun out of it completely. When it's only been 8 days and I'm relieved that I have work to do and must close ESO... That doesn't bode well. I doubt I'll subscribe after the first month.

deep.orcaeb17_ESO

Provisioning is the most easy tradeskill to level, hitting Shadowfen as EP basically equals lvl 50 provisioning.

Alchemy uses all the same reagents on all levels expect water.

Other tradeskills are best leveled at lvl 50 due to much greater xp from deconstruction. Before lvl 50 its better to sell items to buy 42k horse earlier, and deconstruct only blue+ items to get rare reagents.

I'd say 2 bank upgrades is more than enough.

Halicar

deep.orcaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Provisioning is the most easy tradeskill to level, hitting Shadowfen as EP basically equals lvl 50 provisioning.

Alchemy uses all the same reagents on all levels expect water.

Other tradeskills are best leveled at lvl 50 due to much greater xp from deconstruction. Before lvl 50 its better to sell items to buy 42k horse earlier, and deconstruct only blue+ items to get rare reagents.

I'd say 2 bank upgrades is more than enough.

Eh... yes more than enough if that is how you want to play the game, but I can assure you a lot of people want to level skills while leveling their chars. Zenimax can insist that we play the game THEIR way, but I for one wont waste time or money on them in return.

Hellorush

I run a nice little guild as a g-master and it gives 500 slots of guildbank for my private usage (with right settings of access). It solves the bagspace problem completely. Btw I am a crafter in all professions

ferikz

Craftsman warehouses. Sort of a separate bank for material's only.

Imryll

My highest level character is level 8 and has the first two bag upgrades and the first *four* bank upgrades. I think I currently have 3 empty bank slots, but could increase that number by reading stylebooks that I've postponed using until I'm sure I will continue to play my current characters. I'm not now using any mules, but expect to once different levels of crafting materials become more of a factor.

I agree that bank space is over-scarce to support the crafting system. What you can "afford," however is in part a matter of priorities, of how you spend your playtime and what you spend money on.

Raethek

If you need more bag space, which I do, and yeah it kinda sucks but you really do need to focus on one at a time. Seriously. Don't just zerg the crafting system, it's just more realistic to have a limit to what you can do. If you quit because of this mechanic... I don't feel sorry for you.

zhevon

Bag space is probably reasonable plus you can play feed your horse oats for a slowly increasing number; shared space isn't. I have an 80 slot bank - and 3 toons - one toon is essentially a mule. I keep all runes, alchemy ingredients and crafting materials. There are maybe 2-3 duplicate stacks. Space management is still a pain. And I am only in the level 5-15 zones. So unless you plan to limit all your toons to either alchemy or enchanting its not enough.

BTW I only keep 2 different racial motifs for crafting purposes. In case, its not clear I do not put provisioning material in the bank.

Krym

JTWolph_ESO wrote: »

ironvosneb18_ESO wrote: »

There is more than enough bagspace to allow for comfortable playing of the game.
You just have to think a bit about how you use it.
Don't just dump everything in a pile in your bank and alts and cry it's all filled.
I level up 5/6 crafts (not doing provisioning) on one character without any mules and i have space enough.

Here is a prime example of someone who doesn't think before they post. He does it *HIS* way and it works fine for *HIM* so our complaints are invalid.

He states that he is leveling up 5/6 crafts on one character. Which means that he is getting levels toward the profession but either not spending skill points into each profession, not spending enough skill points to really invest in each profession, or is investing many of this one character's skill points into all the profession skills to the detriment of his combat/healing abilities. But either way, if you use all your mats right away for each profession in the cycle of: Craft, Deconstruct, Craft, Deconstruct... ad infinitum or until you run out of mats, then, yes, you will not have any storage issues because you are using up most of your mats at once. But that method only works if you are focusing on a single character that is doing all professions.

what? sorry, but if you actually split stuff across chars it's even easier to manage your space than have it all on one char. I got 1 bank upgrade, that's it. I have some stuff on a mule but that's may be 6-8 slots (improvement items & runes I hoard for lvl50 etc), another upgrade would even take care of that, but I wanted to save money for a mount. you really want to tell me that's easier than just dump half of it on another char?

I'm also one of those people that go full klepto and touch every chest, barrel and sack I can find.

here's how I did it:

- keep a stack of herbs, ore, wood in your inventory. if you got a full stack refine/bank/sell it and start a new stack. same with bait, you'll get plenty of that as well all the time.

- dump runes/style items/gems in the bank, you'll only ever find a few of those and can bank it on your trips back to the city (and if the bank gets full move them to the alt you do the craft on)

- if you get items either deconstruct or sell them (or give them away in the guild).

- most importantly: keep cooking stuff in your inventory as well. if you look for motifs and recipes you'll get a lot of it. you can cook almost everywhere. then vendor the stuff at a nearby npc or give it away in the guild etc. and there are a lot more cooking fires + merchants around than the bank in the city. did I mention the mad dosh you make with it?

the common mistake people make is try to dump everything in the bank and to have an empty as possible inventory while questing. consider this: what will you find the most when running around? is it worth to have TWO stacks of those (1 inventory + 1 bank)? no.
I usually ran around 48/70 inventory space, even after a public dungeon I had space left. and if it ever need more I can get rid of the mats I a) don't have a recipe for b) are so common they don't sell c) are not "worth it" too keep (wasp squeezings, I'm looking at you).

all it needs is some management and organisation.

PS: I forgot to mention, if you move into the next area with a new tier of resources, get rid of the "old" stuff (for example iron ore -> high iron). same for cooking etc.

JTWolph_ESO

"When you go to a new area, get rid of the old stuff!", you say? What about crafting for your lower level alts or lower level guild mates or friends.

The point of a profession isn't just for your one main character. If you can't craft something for an alt or friend that isn't your level due to not having the mats, that just makes the profession very limited or makes you have to go farm mats every time you need to make something lower.

I am so happy for you that your play-style either meshes seamlessly or you have found a way to shoehorn your play-style into the current game structure but there are many of us that will not do so and will cancel our accounts over it. While you could probably care less about people leaving, I would hope Zenimax cares. There are multiple posts on this forums, there are articles on other webpages, complaints on Facebook, threads on Reddit and elsewhere that all have people complaining about the problem. The more people leave, the less effort will be put into working on the game and the shorter the lifespan of the game.

I love the game, in all areas except storage management. It is a very simple thing to fix. If they would let me, I am the kind of player that stays and keeps playing after the min/maxers get bored. I will take my time and bring all 8 alts to level cap. But to do that, I want to be able to use my characters to craft for each other to make the journey more pleasant for them all. I am the kind of gamer that actually does that thing... what is it called? Oh, yes! "READING" I read everything. All those lore books you come across and most likely just click on then close, I read them. I am the guy in the dungeon standing in front of the bookshelves for 5-10 minutes to make sure I have read all the books, not just for random skill points but for the lore. I have been like that in every TES game since Morrowind (which was my first but I went back and played Daggerfall next).

Every one of us who are running into this issue know how to get around it. We know we can just craft everything/sell everything to clear it out. We know that if we just focus on a single character doing a single profession that we won't have issues with space (debatable). But we *CHOOSE* to play the way we want to play. We have more *FUN* playing games the way we enjoy them. If we cannot have fun with this game, we will simply leave.

coolerking

I was suffering from terrible inventory problems in both my sack and my bank until I took the nuclear option to chuck out all those bloody treasure maps from the CE. That freed everything up nicely and now I'm much happier. Even happier now I've bought my horse and can now start saving for space upgrades.

james_walling_ESO

People have read the comments, if they do not agree with you it is not because they have not read your post, but they just do not agree with your argument. I believe the developer's fear of unlimited crafting space, is that it will wreck the in-game economy. Leveling all alts to do all things will destroy the economy, because nobody will need to sale or trade crafted items with others. So, if you are going to be an altoholic and try to do everything then you will be facing soft caps to make it difficult, so the economy doesn't go crashing. If the altoholics have there way once again resources will be more valuable than the crafted items. Simply put, yes the changes can me made, but the effects to the in-game economy could be devastating. You can see this in GW2, the resources are more expensive than the crated items. If you have an altoholic tendency and get great joy in buying resources or collecting resouces, because the crafted item is cheaper than the resources, you might want to go somewhere else, because if this economy gets trashed like all other MMOs then why craft!

ironvosneb18_ESO

JTWolph_ESO wrote: »

ironvosneb18_ESO wrote: »

There is more than enough bagspace to allow for comfortable playing of the game.
You just have to think a bit about how you use it.
Don't just dump everything in a pile in your bank and alts and cry it's all filled.
I level up 5/6 crafts (not doing provisioning) on one character without any mules and i have space enough.

Here is a prime example of someone who doesn't think before they post. He does it *HIS* way and it works fine for *HIM* so our complaints are invalid.

He states that he is leveling up 5/6 crafts on one character. Which means that he is getting levels toward the profession but either not spending skill points into each profession, not spending enough skill points to really invest in each profession, or is investing many of this one character's skill points into all the profession skills to the detriment of his combat/healing abilities. But either way, if you use all your mats right away for each profession in the cycle of: Craft, Deconstruct, Craft, Deconstruct... ad infinitum or until you run out of mats, then, yes, you will not have any storage issues because you are using up most of your mats at once. But that method only works if you are focusing on a single character that is doing all professions.

Note that he says "not doing provisioning" which implies that he either thinks provisioning is not important at all OR he recognizes that the vast volume of provisioning mats would cause problems, even for him.

Also notice how he chooses the wording for "Don't just dump everything in a pile in your bank and alts....". Well sir, if I could put it all in a single pile, there would be no space issues. But I don't just dump everything in to my bank or alts. I set aside the materials that my current character gathers for use on my alternate characters. I am not "hoarding", I am trying to manage my time by gathering all the materials that will be used by one of the eight characters that were included with my purchase.

If the game was designed so that you could *only* have one character at a time and they made it so you could only work on *only* one or two professions, then your point would be valid. In that case, there is no reason to save materials that are not going to be used right away. But that isn't how the game was designed.

Based on how the game was designed in every other area, aside from the small bank, they want you to be able to do all forms of crafting on a single character as indicated by the lack of limits to how many professions you can choose. You just might not want to invest all your skill points into every profession skill possible. They want you to gather from every node you find as you play, as is indicated by the many Achievements. And then there are all the developer interviews, videos, and comments from the past few years that stated that they want players to have the freedom to *CHOOSE* what they do with their time while playing ESO. At no point did anyone say that we must play only one character at a time until it hits 50 and while doing a maximum of 2 professions, either literally or by communicating it with the structure of the game.

Again... Instead of reiterating your futile arguments of "It works for me!" either don't post or try to wrap your diminutive mind around the concepts to which we are discussing. We simply want to be able to do things our way. Or at least, find out if they will make changes so that we can do things our way. It is reasonable to believe that if they discover the difficulties we encounter with our chosen play-style, that they will make changes to improve the game for us. If they have no intention to make any changes, all it will take is a simple response to that affect and we will cease our complaints and either adapt or stop playing the game.

Whether they change the game or not, I fail to see how it effects people who do not share our choice in play-style. Perhaps you should take some quiet time to yourself and reflect on the reason you feel you should comment or pass judgment on things that have nothing to do with you in any way, shape or form.

If you spent as much time in game figuring out a better way to spend your storage as you did trying to dissect my comment and raging about how i don't share your opinion about the issue, then maybe you would have found some solutions already.

Atleast i try to find a way in the game as it was made and step up to the challenge, you however seem to want to mold the game to your own playstyle because you can't adapt.

Am i not allowed to state that i have no problem with the bagspace in a thread where people some people complain about bagspace?

Oh and yes, i don't do provisioning for multiple reasons.
One is that it's not much a useful craft to have, you can buy food at vendors.
Second is that it's easy to level later, and materials are easy to come by a there are crates and barrels everywhere in the world and it's gathering of resources is totally independent of character level, so it's easy to do later.
Third is that i realize that you should not be able to do all crafts at once anyway. I planned on only doing 2 crafts, but i managed to squeeze in 5.

And to aswer you skillpoint assessment.
I do have many skillpoints in every crafting skill i level, and i am still more than capable in combat.

Krym

JTWolph_ESO wrote: »

"When you go to a new area, get rid of the old stuff!", you say? What about crafting for your lower level alts or lower level guild mates or friends.

The point of a profession isn't just for your one main character. If you can't craft something for an alt or friend that isn't your level due to not having the mats, that just makes the profession very limited or makes you have to go farm mats every time you need to make something lower.

yes, because "get rid" always means destroy it. not put it on A LOWER LEVEL ALT or GUILD BANK. "get rid" in this case means out of your inventory/bank because the slots are too valuable to drag around stuff you need once in a blue moon.
and that's with only one inventory upgrade (hence the "how I did it"). it's an example that it's possible, it doesn't force you to follow it.
another example: if you spend the money on upgrades (which I didn't) you can keep the ore/wood/cloth (if you want to waste slots on the few items left, since it makes more sense to level with everything you got, but hey, that's just me); cooking makes absolutely no sense to keep since you end up with stuff you can't use anyway, cause you miss the other resource and everyone has plenty of it himself.

if you would employ some thought instead of ranting mindlessly, being in a guild which swaps stuff makes the limited storage space even less of an issue. if you want to rant about sth rant about the simple permission system for guild banks.

also, a company doesn't always change stuff because people complain. because then it would end up with a mess of a product that doesn't attract anyone. "oh, some people have an issue with X? LET'S CHANGE IT, THAT WILL SURELY KEEP THEM PAYING!"

another point: no mmo gives you endless storage from the get go, you ALWAYS have to buy upgrades. if you if you go full hoarder "because I might need it" don't complain you run out of space.

welcome to the real world.

Valmond

I think the main problem is provisioning.
There are dozens of different food items, most of which you won't, or can't, use at whatever level you are, yet they keep dropping in abundance.
Sometimes i have ended with stack or more of a food item, had to throw it out because simply had no room, gain 5+ levels, switch zones, and now suddenly i need that item, and it no longer drops.
It's insane.

Krym

Valmond wrote: »

I think the main problem is provisioning.
There are dozens of different food items, most of which you won't, or can't, use at whatever level you are, yet they keep dropping in abundance.
Sometimes i have ended with stack or more of a food item, had to throw it out because simply had no room, gain 5+ levels, switch zones, and now suddenly i need that item, and it no longer drops.
It's insane.

usually tier 1 stuff only drops in the first zone (with a few rare exceptions), after that it gets more messy. but don't get me started on the stuff for the rare+ recipes - they really need to sort it out a bit, at least clarify it in the tooltip.

alarikub17_ESO

Being told we are playing the game wrong and finding ourselves having to spend large amounts of time micromanaging inventories does not lead to long term retention of players.

On forums one tends to see dramatic "I WILL QUIT" responses to many things. I suspect the reality is that things tend to push people one way or the other on that "Maybe i will stay subbed, maybe i will not". The issue with bag space is not about to make me say i quit but it does make me less likely to renew. The time i spent making the system work for me is time that also pushes me to the less likely to renew side.

People may well find out in a few months there are fewer complaints about space as those that are told that their play style is wrong have drifted away from Tamriel.