Crown Crate Gifting Temporary Solution Process

muscle_witch

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

after first hearing about this process to gift crates, my first thought was "this is terrible, going to have significant problems, and be way too much work to actually bother with" lol

and over the course of this thread i want to hate to say that i was right (i even predicted in my head that people wouldnt use this for randoms such as the larger crown/gold trading services lol)

i am not at all surprised about this, considering it feels like this process was instituted at the last minute because people were angry about the crate gifting being disabled for 4 months (prior to this process) and the last month with this process not making it any easier and getting a lot of mixed results lol

The first announcement that a temporary fix was in the works came on May 22. This was rolled out on July 13. Would 7 1/2 weeks be considered last minute?

Necrotech_Master

muscle_witch wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

after first hearing about this process to gift crates, my first thought was "this is terrible, going to have significant problems, and be way too much work to actually bother with" lol

and over the course of this thread i want to hate to say that i was right (i even predicted in my head that people wouldnt use this for randoms such as the larger crown/gold trading services lol)

i am not at all surprised about this, considering it feels like this process was instituted at the last minute because people were angry about the crate gifting being disabled for 4 months (prior to this process) and the last month with this process not making it any easier and getting a lot of mixed results lol

The first announcement that a temporary fix was in the works came on May 22. This was rolled out on July 13. Would 7 1/2 weeks be considered last minute?

potentially, if your considering the different departments needing to communicate and the CS people needing to make new copy/paste replies

not to mention all of the training to expect the new type of ticket

based on the CS responses and handling of this process as is that people are reporting, yes it feels rushed and last minute because its almost completely the opposite of how it would have expected to be handled

muscle_witch

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

muscle_witch wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

after first hearing about this process to gift crates, my first thought was "this is terrible, going to have significant problems, and be way too much work to actually bother with" lol

and over the course of this thread i want to hate to say that i was right (i even predicted in my head that people wouldnt use this for randoms such as the larger crown/gold trading services lol)

i am not at all surprised about this, considering it feels like this process was instituted at the last minute because people were angry about the crate gifting being disabled for 4 months (prior to this process) and the last month with this process not making it any easier and getting a lot of mixed results lol

The first announcement that a temporary fix was in the works came on May 22. This was rolled out on July 13. Would 7 1/2 weeks be considered last minute?

potentially, if your considering the different departments needing to communicate and the CS people needing to make new copy/paste replies

not to mention all of the training to expect the new type of ticket

based on the CS responses and handling of this process as is that people are reporting, yes it feels rushed and last minute because its almost completely the opposite of how it would have expected to be handled

I don't think you can say something is rushed or last minute just because it isn't working - ZOS is perfectly capable of failing on its own merits, not just because of scheduling. That being said, if any/all of what you're describing did take place, almost two months would be a pretty tight timeline - but not so tight that support should be making up parts of the TOS that do not and have never existed.

Sepultura_13

SimonThesis wrote: »

Honestly we can't trust anything they say anymore.

I wonder if the term "Virtual Currency" might be what is confusing to some? Everyone is insisting that "virtual currency" refers to in-game gold only, but I suspect that it might also refer to cryptocurrency.

I've only gifted crown crates themselves, here and there, to guild-mates during events. Never engaged in the what-seems-scummy "crowns for gold" trading, because it appears that its monopolized by Discord bros and OnlyFans Whoas who have accumulated crypto, or those who code-write and create their own.

If this so-called "soft banning" is getting rid of cheats who somehow have EVERY SINGLE CROWN STORE ITEM because they have UNLIMITED AMOUNTS of "currency," I say good riddance to bad rubbish. Keep this game for gamers, not for criminals who treat everything and everyone as a commodity.

DragonRacer

So, admittedly, I don't really understand what the poster above me is talking about with cryptocurrency unless PC players are somehow making gold exist in the game that otherwise wouldn't (?) because console certainly can't do that and people of all varieties are being accused by CS reps of whatever they think the violation is for years-old approved tradition of "here is some in-game gold, in exchange please gift me 4 Crown Crates".

But it did get me to thinking... what is the difference between Crown Crates and everything else giftable in the store? Crown GEMS. Now, you cannot directly buy Crown GEMS in any way whatsoever nor can you gift things to people that only accept Crown GEMS as currency. The only way to get Crown GEMS is by opening Crown Crates and either getting duplicate items which automatically convert to Crown GEMS or extracting things from Crown Crates to turn them into Crown GEMS.

No other item in the store creates a currency like that. Are the CS reps maybe interpreting THIS as the gold-for-virtual currency thing they keep referencing? They are not seeing this as someone giving in-game gold to receive a mount or a house, which will only ever be just a mount or a house? Are they seeing in-game gold exchanged for Crown CRATES as a way of people trying to buy Crown GEMS because the Crates are what leads to Crown GEMS?

Is it the stupid Crown GEMS that are screwing everything up in this process?

It still confuses me because it is still an in-game product (gold) being exchanged for an in-game product (Crown GEMS vicariously through Crown Crates), but it's the only difference in what the Crates spit out compared to everything else buyable in the store...

GooGa592

Sepultura_13 wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

Honestly we can't trust anything they say anymore.

I wonder if the term "Virtual Currency" might be what is confusing to some? Everyone is insisting that "virtual currency" refers to in-game gold only, but I suspect that it might also refer to cryptocurrency.

I've only gifted crown crates themselves, here and there, to guild-mates during events. Never engaged in the what-seems-scummy "crowns for gold" trading, because it appears that its monopolized by Discord bros and OnlyFans Whoas who have accumulated crypto, or those who code-write and create their own.

If this so-called "soft banning" is getting rid of cheats who somehow have EVERY SINGLE CROWN STORE ITEM because they have UNLIMITED AMOUNTS of "currency," I say good riddance to bad rubbish. Keep this game for gamers, not for criminals who treat everything and everyone as a commodity.

There is no means to spend cryptocurrency with ZOS.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings, as we've removed a few non-constructive comments, please remember that while it’s all right to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding.

Arunei

Sepultura_13 wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

Honestly we can't trust anything they say anymore.

I wonder if the term "Virtual Currency" might be what is confusing to some? Everyone is insisting that "virtual currency" refers to in-game gold only, but I suspect that it might also refer to cryptocurrency.

I've only gifted crown crates themselves, here and there, to guild-mates during events. Never engaged in the what-seems-scummy "crowns for gold" trading, because it appears that its monopolized by Discord bros and OnlyFans Whoas who have accumulated crypto, or those who code-write and create their own.

If this so-called "soft banning" is getting rid of cheats who somehow have EVERY SINGLE CROWN STORE ITEM because they have UNLIMITED AMOUNTS of "currency," I say good riddance to bad rubbish. Keep this game for gamers, not for criminals who treat everything and everyone as a commodity.

Uh...what? Crypto has NOTHING to do with this, not in any form. None of what you've said applies to this matter. Crypto cannot and does not affect ESO, you can't buy anything in-game with it, and no one is making their own to somehow get every item in the CS for free.

There's also nothing scummy about selling CS items for gold. It's not monopolized by anyone; in fact, several people I know who do it often sell things for below what the average per Crown is, so let's not make accusations about people who have done nothing wrong.

demonology89

Arunei wrote: »

Sepultura_13 wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

Honestly we can't trust anything they say anymore.

I wonder if the term "Virtual Currency" might be what is confusing to some? Everyone is insisting that "virtual currency" refers to in-game gold only, but I suspect that it might also refer to cryptocurrency.

I've only gifted crown crates themselves, here and there, to guild-mates during events. Never engaged in the what-seems-scummy "crowns for gold" trading, because it appears that its monopolized by Discord bros and OnlyFans Whoas who have accumulated crypto, or those who code-write and create their own.

If this so-called "soft banning" is getting rid of cheats who somehow have EVERY SINGLE CROWN STORE ITEM because they have UNLIMITED AMOUNTS of "currency," I say good riddance to bad rubbish. Keep this game for gamers, not for criminals who treat everything and everyone as a commodity.

Uh...what? Crypto has NOTHING to do with this, not in any form. None of what you've said applies to this matter. Crypto cannot and does not affect ESO, you can't buy anything in-game with it, and no one is making their own to somehow get every item in the CS for free.

There's also nothing scummy about selling CS items for gold. It's not monopolized by anyone; in fact, several people I know who do it often sell things for below what the average per Crown is, so let's not make accusations about people who have done nothing wrong.

The players that are doing something wrong are being accused. Players are using Discord to sell gold for real world money and using that money to purchase dirt cheap crowns. It's absolutely scummy. And this behavior has ruined it for the rest of the playerbase who were buying crowns legitimately. I could see ZOS taking away all gifting at this point. Hopefully, some big bans are handed out and it'll be back to business as normal for the non scummy crown sellers.

Vulkunne

Sepultura_13 wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

Honestly we can't trust anything they say anymore.

I wonder if the term "Virtual Currency" might be what is confusing to some? Everyone is insisting that "virtual currency" refers to in-game gold only, but I suspect that it might also refer to cryptocurrency.

I've only gifted crown crates themselves, here and there, to guild-mates during events. Never engaged in the what-seems-scummy "crowns for gold" trading, because it appears that its monopolized by Discord bros and OnlyFans Whoas who have accumulated crypto, or those who code-write and create their own.

If this so-called "soft banning" is getting rid of cheats who somehow have EVERY SINGLE CROWN STORE ITEM because they have UNLIMITED AMOUNTS of "currency," I say good riddance to bad rubbish. Keep this game for gamers, not for criminals who treat everything and everyone as a commodity.

Ok well thanks for sharing your opinion on this. However I kind of feel like you're making too many assumptions. I mean, a-lot of good people are getting caught in this madness too... let's not forget that. There are some bad apples out there yeah but my concern is if we're handing out bans, (just for requesting to send Crates as a Gift...) and also hitting many with a TOS Violation too, then how do you ever expect them to tackle the real problem folks out there? I understand everyone is not a fan of certain things but before pointing the finger at parties we don't like personally I think we need to slow down on the blame train. That is in the spirit of the law and if we are going to just start jumping to conclusions or making decisions based on feelings then that itself is worse of all because then, that is becoming the thing you despise the most about others.

If as I understand it, there was some things that happened to cause all of this from before, so then I feel, that is where the focus needs to be is on the problem itself. If they continue going about this as we have seen then that's not really going to fix anything. We really don't want to speculate blame and this should be used as an opportunity to fix the problem not go after others who may or may not have been connected with the underlying issue. If a hand gun is used in a murder do we fine or put everyone in prison who wants to buy a hand-gun? That's just creating more problems, more work for Support, more hype, more tension and again, others as well as I have also stated previously, this just seems like a solution that serves no one and has no real purpose.

muscle_witch

demonology89 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Sepultura_13 wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

Honestly we can't trust anything they say anymore.

I wonder if the term "Virtual Currency" might be what is confusing to some? Everyone is insisting that "virtual currency" refers to in-game gold only, but I suspect that it might also refer to cryptocurrency.

I've only gifted crown crates themselves, here and there, to guild-mates during events. Never engaged in the what-seems-scummy "crowns for gold" trading, because it appears that its monopolized by Discord bros and OnlyFans Whoas who have accumulated crypto, or those who code-write and create their own.

If this so-called "soft banning" is getting rid of cheats who somehow have EVERY SINGLE CROWN STORE ITEM because they have UNLIMITED AMOUNTS of "currency," I say good riddance to bad rubbish. Keep this game for gamers, not for criminals who treat everything and everyone as a commodity.

Uh...what? Crypto has NOTHING to do with this, not in any form. None of what you've said applies to this matter. Crypto cannot and does not affect ESO, you can't buy anything in-game with it, and no one is making their own to somehow get every item in the CS for free.

There's also nothing scummy about selling CS items for gold. It's not monopolized by anyone; in fact, several people I know who do it often sell things for below what the average per Crown is, so let's not make accusations about people who have done nothing wrong.

The players that are doing something wrong are being accused. Players are using Discord to sell gold for real world money and using that money to purchase dirt cheap crowns. It's absolutely scummy. And this behavior has ruined it for the rest of the playerbase who were buying crowns legitimately. I could see ZOS taking away all gifting at this point. Hopefully, some big bans are handed out and it'll be back to business as normal for the non scummy crown sellers.

Sorry, could you explain what about this practice is scummy? What's the difference between a scummy and non scummy crown seller? The behaviour you described...doesn't involve selling crowns, so I don't see how it should affect "non scummy crown sellers". It kinda sounds like the only difference is the price someone has to pay for crowns, which is a system that ZOS itself set up and manages to be intentionally different based on the country a player is in.

demonology89

muscle_witch wrote: »

demonology89 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Sepultura_13 wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

Honestly we can't trust anything they say anymore.

I wonder if the term "Virtual Currency" might be what is confusing to some? Everyone is insisting that "virtual currency" refers to in-game gold only, but I suspect that it might also refer to cryptocurrency.

I've only gifted crown crates themselves, here and there, to guild-mates during events. Never engaged in the what-seems-scummy "crowns for gold" trading, because it appears that its monopolized by Discord bros and OnlyFans Whoas who have accumulated crypto, or those who code-write and create their own.

If this so-called "soft banning" is getting rid of cheats who somehow have EVERY SINGLE CROWN STORE ITEM because they have UNLIMITED AMOUNTS of "currency," I say good riddance to bad rubbish. Keep this game for gamers, not for criminals who treat everything and everyone as a commodity.

Uh...what? Crypto has NOTHING to do with this, not in any form. None of what you've said applies to this matter. Crypto cannot and does not affect ESO, you can't buy anything in-game with it, and no one is making their own to somehow get every item in the CS for free.

There's also nothing scummy about selling CS items for gold. It's not monopolized by anyone; in fact, several people I know who do it often sell things for below what the average per Crown is, so let's not make accusations about people who have done nothing wrong.

The players that are doing something wrong are being accused. Players are using Discord to sell gold for real world money and using that money to purchase dirt cheap crowns. It's absolutely scummy. And this behavior has ruined it for the rest of the playerbase who were buying crowns legitimately. I could see ZOS taking away all gifting at this point. Hopefully, some big bans are handed out and it'll be back to business as normal for the non scummy crown sellers.

Sorry, could you explain what about this practice is scummy? What's the difference between a scummy and non scummy crown seller? The behaviour you described...doesn't involve selling crowns, so I don't see how it should affect "non scummy crown sellers". It kinda sounds like the only difference is the price someone has to pay for crowns, which is a system that ZOS itself set up and manages to be intentionally different based on the country a player is in.

Because players are profiting off this. And I'll assume any profits these players are making are not being reported and properly taxed, therefore making it illegal. Selling gold for real world money is absolutely against TOS. Why did you intentionally gloss over this behavior? Better yet, what gives these players the right to take advantage of as you put it, "a system that ZOS itself set up and manages to be intentionally different based on the country a player is in"? The company these players are profiting off is losing money big time. ZOS has every right to ban them and should. The rest of the playerbase not partaking in this crap is now paying the price.

Edited for grammatical error.

Arunei

demonology89 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Sepultura_13 wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

Honestly we can't trust anything they say anymore.

I wonder if the term "Virtual Currency" might be what is confusing to some? Everyone is insisting that "virtual currency" refers to in-game gold only, but I suspect that it might also refer to cryptocurrency.

I've only gifted crown crates themselves, here and there, to guild-mates during events. Never engaged in the what-seems-scummy "crowns for gold" trading, because it appears that its monopolized by Discord bros and OnlyFans Whoas who have accumulated crypto, or those who code-write and create their own.

If this so-called "soft banning" is getting rid of cheats who somehow have EVERY SINGLE CROWN STORE ITEM because they have UNLIMITED AMOUNTS of "currency," I say good riddance to bad rubbish. Keep this game for gamers, not for criminals who treat everything and everyone as a commodity.

Uh...what? Crypto has NOTHING to do with this, not in any form. None of what you've said applies to this matter. Crypto cannot and does not affect ESO, you can't buy anything in-game with it, and no one is making their own to somehow get every item in the CS for free.

There's also nothing scummy about selling CS items for gold. It's not monopolized by anyone; in fact, several people I know who do it often sell things for below what the average per Crown is, so let's not make accusations about people who have done nothing wrong.

The players that are doing something wrong are being accused. Players are using Discord to sell gold for real world money and using that money to purchase dirt cheap crowns. It's absolutely scummy. And this behavior has ruined it for the rest of the playerbase who were buying crowns legitimately. I could see ZOS taking away all gifting at this point. Hopefully, some big bans are handed out and it'll be back to business as normal for the non scummy crown sellers.

Literally no one is doing anything wrong, at all. Don't make accusations that have no founding, this is why people are getting into trouble for no reason. You're drawing parallels to two completely separate issues in order to pin the blame on people it doesn't belong to.

Everyone already knows selling gold for irl money is a BANNABLE OFFENSE that's AGAINST THE TOS. That is NOTHING to do with the actual problem. It has been ALLOWED FOR YEARS to trade in-game currency for in-game items and vice-versa, CRATES INCLUDED. We have Gina telling us years ago this is the case and that it's fine. Someone posted a screen not too far back that Crown items for Gold is NOT AGAINST THE TOS.

This matter how absolutely nothing to do with people selling gold for money irl and everything to do with CS now telling us that something that's been allowed for YEARS is suddenly no longer allowed and is actively against the TOS. People who HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG, who are just trying to use the system as intended, ARE BEING ACCUSED OF TRYING TO EXPLOIT THE SYSTEM, simply for USING it the way it's meant to be used.

So again, stop making accusations that a) have no basis and b) have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

@ZOS_Kevin
Can you please pass on to the powers that be that we need an actual response on this matter so people will quit making ridiculous claims and conspiracy theories? The latter isn't allowed but then the devs go absolutely silent during critical times for long stretches of time. What do they think is going to happen when communication is so poor?

Vulkunne

demonology89 wrote: »

muscle_witch wrote: »

demonology89 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Sepultura_13 wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

Honestly we can't trust anything they say anymore.

I wonder if the term "Virtual Currency" might be what is confusing to some? Everyone is insisting that "virtual currency" refers to in-game gold only, but I suspect that it might also refer to cryptocurrency.

I've only gifted crown crates themselves, here and there, to guild-mates during events. Never engaged in the what-seems-scummy "crowns for gold" trading, because it appears that its monopolized by Discord bros and OnlyFans Whoas who have accumulated crypto, or those who code-write and create their own.

If this so-called "soft banning" is getting rid of cheats who somehow have EVERY SINGLE CROWN STORE ITEM because they have UNLIMITED AMOUNTS of "currency," I say good riddance to bad rubbish. Keep this game for gamers, not for criminals who treat everything and everyone as a commodity.

Uh...what? Crypto has NOTHING to do with this, not in any form. None of what you've said applies to this matter. Crypto cannot and does not affect ESO, you can't buy anything in-game with it, and no one is making their own to somehow get every item in the CS for free.

There's also nothing scummy about selling CS items for gold. It's not monopolized by anyone; in fact, several people I know who do it often sell things for below what the average per Crown is, so let's not make accusations about people who have done nothing wrong.

The players that are doing something wrong are being accused. Players are using Discord to sell gold for real world money and using that money to purchase dirt cheap crowns. It's absolutely scummy. And this behavior has ruined it for the rest of the playerbase who were buying crowns legitimately. I could see ZOS taking away all gifting at this point. Hopefully, some big bans are handed out and it'll be back to business as normal for the non scummy crown sellers.

Sorry, could you explain what about this practice is scummy? What's the difference between a scummy and non scummy crown seller? The behaviour you described...doesn't involve selling crowns, so I don't see how it should affect "non scummy crown sellers". It kinda sounds like the only difference is the price someone has to pay for crowns, which is a system that ZOS itself set up and manages to be intentionally different based on the country a player is in.

Because players are profiting off this. And I'll assume any profits these players are making are not being reported and properly taxed, therefore making it illegal. Selling gold for real world money is absolutely against TOS. Why did you intentionally gloss over this behavior? Better yet, what gives these players the right to take advantage of as you put it, "a system that ZOS itself set up and manages to be intentionally different based on the country a player is in"? The company these players are profiting off is losing money big time. ZOS has every right to ban them and should. The rest of the playerbase not partaking in this crap is now paying the price.

Edited for grammatical error.

I don't necessarily disagree with your posts here, I can see where you're coming from. Because even though many of us did nothing wrong, something happened and and now bad things are going down. So I get that. However, I also appreciate how you're saying this is partially due to people making money off loot boxes and it not being taxed or what not. My question about that is if the Crowns/Crates are purchased from ZOS then that should cover the tax right?

Still, I've been following some things on the news and so forth, and its like the more I see of Gov getting involved in things it just seems like the worse everything gets. For example, I was dinged with a 'minor' tax issue not too long ago but it really seems like, it just seems scummy and petty to me, for Gov to get this deep into people's entertainment and a video game right? I'm not at all condoning any behavior that's against TOS but as I'm sure you've seen some of the stories out there its really sickening that this is what Gov cares more about than fixing the real issues. Is coming after a video game and people who they see as professional gamblers, or see ZOS as like a Lottery.

I mean that, that tells me to stay away from certain countries because if they have time to harass people with tax issues related to in-game loot boxes then you know that's just crazy to me. You have so many other problems and you have to do this. Its like I work for the Gov and I'm going to wake up one day and go after a video game because people are using random treasure chests and maybe/maybe not making money off it. Do they tax the in-game gold as well? Could ZOS opt to become tax free in these areas? These are good questions that I hope they're asking.

muscle_witch

demonology89 wrote: »

muscle_witch wrote: »

demonology89 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Sepultura_13 wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

Honestly we can't trust anything they say anymore.

I wonder if the term "Virtual Currency" might be what is confusing to some? Everyone is insisting that "virtual currency" refers to in-game gold only, but I suspect that it might also refer to cryptocurrency.

I've only gifted crown crates themselves, here and there, to guild-mates during events. Never engaged in the what-seems-scummy "crowns for gold" trading, because it appears that its monopolized by Discord bros and OnlyFans Whoas who have accumulated crypto, or those who code-write and create their own.

If this so-called "soft banning" is getting rid of cheats who somehow have EVERY SINGLE CROWN STORE ITEM because they have UNLIMITED AMOUNTS of "currency," I say good riddance to bad rubbish. Keep this game for gamers, not for criminals who treat everything and everyone as a commodity.

Uh...what? Crypto has NOTHING to do with this, not in any form. None of what you've said applies to this matter. Crypto cannot and does not affect ESO, you can't buy anything in-game with it, and no one is making their own to somehow get every item in the CS for free.

There's also nothing scummy about selling CS items for gold. It's not monopolized by anyone; in fact, several people I know who do it often sell things for below what the average per Crown is, so let's not make accusations about people who have done nothing wrong.

The players that are doing something wrong are being accused. Players are using Discord to sell gold for real world money and using that money to purchase dirt cheap crowns. It's absolutely scummy. And this behavior has ruined it for the rest of the playerbase who were buying crowns legitimately. I could see ZOS taking away all gifting at this point. Hopefully, some big bans are handed out and it'll be back to business as normal for the non scummy crown sellers.

Sorry, could you explain what about this practice is scummy? What's the difference between a scummy and non scummy crown seller? The behaviour you described...doesn't involve selling crowns, so I don't see how it should affect "non scummy crown sellers". It kinda sounds like the only difference is the price someone has to pay for crowns, which is a system that ZOS itself set up and manages to be intentionally different based on the country a player is in.

Because players are profiting off this. And I'll assume any profits these players are making are not being reported and properly taxed, therefore making it illegal. Selling gold for real world money is absolutely against TOS. Why did you intentionally gloss over this behavior? Better yet, what gives these players the right to take advantage of as you put it, "a system that ZOS itself set up and manages to be intentionally different based on the country a player is in"? The company these players are profiting off is losing money big time. ZOS has every right to ban them and should. The rest of the playerbase not partaking in this crap is now paying the price.

Edited for grammatical error.

Okay, none of this is making sense to me, could you tell me what I'm missing? I'll break it down because I feel like there's a logical leap I'm not making.

demonology89 wrote: »

Players are using Discord to sell gold for real world money and using that money to purchase dirt cheap crowns.

1. Person sells gold on Discord for real world money (this is against TOS, I'm following you here)
2. Person then uses that money to buy dirt cheap crowns (from who? from ZOS or from a third party seller?)

demonology89 wrote: »

And this behavior has ruined it for the rest of the playerbase who were buying crowns legitimately

3. I get that selling gold for real world money is bad, but how does this affect people who buy crowns "legitimately"? It's not like ZOS can tell where money comes from, and RMT is a completely different issue from any kind of fraudulent behavior involving crowns.

demonology89 wrote: »

And I'll assume any profits these players are making are not being reported and properly taxed, therefore making it illegal.

4. That's not relevant because 1) ZOS does not care about whether or not people pay taxes and it has no bearing on their in-game activities; 2) Failing to pay taxes on money earned from a given activity does not make that activity illegal; 3) This is all just speculation on your part anyway, so I'm not giving it any factual weight

demonology89 wrote: »

Selling gold for real world money is absolutely against TOS. Why did you intentionally gloss over this behavior?

5. I follow you on this, and yes I understand it's against TOS, but I "glossed over" this because I don't see how it connects to crowns at all, aside from using that money to buy them (see 3, 4.1, 4.2 for my reasoning)

demonology89 wrote: »

Better yet, what gives these players the right to take advantage of as you put it, "a system that ZOS itself set up and manages to be intentionally different based on the country a player is in"?

6. Because you haven't described how they're taking advantage of it? I get that RMT is a TOS violation, but what part of that relates to crown buying/selling? I assumed that when you mentioned dirt cheap crowns you were talking about how players in certain countries pay significantly less for crowns because of regional pricing, so I don't understand how this is taking advantage of anything.

Sorry for the length, I'm just genuinely not following you here

demonology89

Arunei wrote: »

demonology89 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Sepultura_13 wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

Honestly we can't trust anything they say anymore.

I wonder if the term "Virtual Currency" might be what is confusing to some? Everyone is insisting that "virtual currency" refers to in-game gold only, but I suspect that it might also refer to cryptocurrency.

I've only gifted crown crates themselves, here and there, to guild-mates during events. Never engaged in the what-seems-scummy "crowns for gold" trading, because it appears that its monopolized by Discord bros and OnlyFans Whoas who have accumulated crypto, or those who code-write and create their own.

If this so-called "soft banning" is getting rid of cheats who somehow have EVERY SINGLE CROWN STORE ITEM because they have UNLIMITED AMOUNTS of "currency," I say good riddance to bad rubbish. Keep this game for gamers, not for criminals who treat everything and everyone as a commodity.

Uh...what? Crypto has NOTHING to do with this, not in any form. None of what you've said applies to this matter. Crypto cannot and does not affect ESO, you can't buy anything in-game with it, and no one is making their own to somehow get every item in the CS for free.

There's also nothing scummy about selling CS items for gold. It's not monopolized by anyone; in fact, several people I know who do it often sell things for below what the average per Crown is, so let's not make accusations about people who have done nothing wrong.

The players that are doing something wrong are being accused. Players are using Discord to sell gold for real world money and using that money to purchase dirt cheap crowns. It's absolutely scummy. And this behavior has ruined it for the rest of the playerbase who were buying crowns legitimately. I could see ZOS taking away all gifting at this point. Hopefully, some big bans are handed out and it'll be back to business as normal for the non scummy crown sellers.

Literally no one is doing anything wrong, at all. Don't make accusations that have no founding, this is why people are getting into trouble for no reason. You're drawing parallels to two completely separate issues in order to pin the blame on people it doesn't belong to.

Everyone already knows selling gold for irl money is a BANNABLE OFFENSE that's AGAINST THE TOS. That is NOTHING to do with the actual problem. It has been ALLOWED FOR YEARS to trade in-game currency for in-game items and vice-versa, CRATES INCLUDED. We have Gina telling us years ago this is the case and that it's fine. Someone posted a screen not too far back that Crown items for Gold is NOT AGAINST THE TOS.

This matter how absolutely nothing to do with people selling gold for money irl and everything to do with CS now telling us that something that's been allowed for YEARS is suddenly no longer allowed and is actively against the TOS. People who HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG, who are just trying to use the system as intended, ARE BEING ACCUSED OF TRYING TO EXPLOIT THE SYSTEM, simply for USING it the way it's meant to be used.

So again, stop making accusations that a) have no basis and b) have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

@ZOS_Kevin
Can you please pass on to the powers that be that we need an actual response on this matter so people will quit making ridiculous claims and conspiracy theories? The latter isn't allowed but then the devs go absolutely silent during critical times for long stretches of time. What do they think is going to happen when communication is so poor?

Ok completely skip over how I said the behaviors by some players have completely screwed over the rest of the playerbase. I never said the action of trading gold for crown store items was not allowed. It has been allowed and is still allowed for some crown store items. And I never accused the players being forced to use this gifting option as trying to exploit the system. This gifting option sucks and hearing players getting soft bans for trying to do what was always allowed really sucks. I never accused these players of doing anything wrong.

Arunei

demonology89 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

demonology89 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Sepultura_13 wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

Honestly we can't trust anything they say anymore.

I wonder if the term "Virtual Currency" might be what is confusing to some? Everyone is insisting that "virtual currency" refers to in-game gold only, but I suspect that it might also refer to cryptocurrency.

I've only gifted crown crates themselves, here and there, to guild-mates during events. Never engaged in the what-seems-scummy "crowns for gold" trading, because it appears that its monopolized by Discord bros and OnlyFans Whoas who have accumulated crypto, or those who code-write and create their own.

If this so-called "soft banning" is getting rid of cheats who somehow have EVERY SINGLE CROWN STORE ITEM because they have UNLIMITED AMOUNTS of "currency," I say good riddance to bad rubbish. Keep this game for gamers, not for criminals who treat everything and everyone as a commodity.

Uh...what? Crypto has NOTHING to do with this, not in any form. None of what you've said applies to this matter. Crypto cannot and does not affect ESO, you can't buy anything in-game with it, and no one is making their own to somehow get every item in the CS for free.

There's also nothing scummy about selling CS items for gold. It's not monopolized by anyone; in fact, several people I know who do it often sell things for below what the average per Crown is, so let's not make accusations about people who have done nothing wrong.

The players that are doing something wrong are being accused. Players are using Discord to sell gold for real world money and using that money to purchase dirt cheap crowns. It's absolutely scummy. And this behavior has ruined it for the rest of the playerbase who were buying crowns legitimately. I could see ZOS taking away all gifting at this point. Hopefully, some big bans are handed out and it'll be back to business as normal for the non scummy crown sellers.

Literally no one is doing anything wrong, at all. Don't make accusations that have no founding, this is why people are getting into trouble for no reason. You're drawing parallels to two completely separate issues in order to pin the blame on people it doesn't belong to.

Everyone already knows selling gold for irl money is a BANNABLE OFFENSE that's AGAINST THE TOS. That is NOTHING to do with the actual problem. It has been ALLOWED FOR YEARS to trade in-game currency for in-game items and vice-versa, CRATES INCLUDED. We have Gina telling us years ago this is the case and that it's fine. Someone posted a screen not too far back that Crown items for Gold is NOT AGAINST THE TOS.

This matter how absolutely nothing to do with people selling gold for money irl and everything to do with CS now telling us that something that's been allowed for YEARS is suddenly no longer allowed and is actively against the TOS. People who HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG, who are just trying to use the system as intended, ARE BEING ACCUSED OF TRYING TO EXPLOIT THE SYSTEM, simply for USING it the way it's meant to be used.

So again, stop making accusations that a) have no basis and b) have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

@ZOS_Kevin
Can you please pass on to the powers that be that we need an actual response on this matter so people will quit making ridiculous claims and conspiracy theories? The latter isn't allowed but then the devs go absolutely silent during critical times for long stretches of time. What do they think is going to happen when communication is so poor?

Ok completely skip over how I said the behaviors by some players have completely screwed over the rest of the playerbase. I never said the action of trading gold for crown store items was not allowed. It has been allowed and is still allowed for some crown store items. And I never accused the players being forced to use this gifting option as trying to exploit the system. This gifting option sucks and hearing players getting soft bans for trying to do what was always allowed really sucks. I never accused these players of doing anything wrong.

You yourself literally said "The players that are doing something wrong are being accused", so yes, you did accuse everyone who has gotten warnings or accusations of doing something wrong, as having done something wrong. And that isn't the case in the slightest. People might have been trying to exchange Crate for Gold in the beginning, but that's because it wasn't until a few days later was it quietly edited into the OP that using the system to do Crates for Gold/Gold for Crates wouldn't be facilitated. Even then no one was doing anything wrong.

And your 'the actions of some players' point is still irrelevant because people buying gold for irl money has 0 to do with this issue. People "getting Crowns for dirt cheap" doesn't make any sense in the context of what's going on, and also has nothing to do with what's going on. Your posts 100% implied that people who sell Crates for gold are scummy, because they...all bought Crowns to get the Crates with money obtained by selling Gold, I guess? Which, again, isn't the problem here.

I also didn't say you were the one accusing people of misusing the system. I'm saying that's what CS has been replying to people with, that their attempts to simply use the system as it's meant to be used are being met with things like "our records indicate you are clearly trying to misuse the system". The screens of that reply have been posted at least a few times here. I personally know someone who got that reply and has since stopped trying to use the system for fear of action being taken against his account.

Kiyakotari

Arunei wrote: »

demonology89 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

demonology89 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Sepultura_13 wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

Honestly we can't trust anything they say anymore.

I wonder if the term "Virtual Currency" might be what is confusing to some? Everyone is insisting that "virtual currency" refers to in-game gold only, but I suspect that it might also refer to cryptocurrency.

I've only gifted crown crates themselves, here and there, to guild-mates during events. Never engaged in the what-seems-scummy "crowns for gold" trading, because it appears that its monopolized by Discord bros and OnlyFans Whoas who have accumulated crypto, or those who code-write and create their own.

If this so-called "soft banning" is getting rid of cheats who somehow have EVERY SINGLE CROWN STORE ITEM because they have UNLIMITED AMOUNTS of "currency," I say good riddance to bad rubbish. Keep this game for gamers, not for criminals who treat everything and everyone as a commodity.

Uh...what? Crypto has NOTHING to do with this, not in any form. None of what you've said applies to this matter. Crypto cannot and does not affect ESO, you can't buy anything in-game with it, and no one is making their own to somehow get every item in the CS for free.

There's also nothing scummy about selling CS items for gold. It's not monopolized by anyone; in fact, several people I know who do it often sell things for below what the average per Crown is, so let's not make accusations about people who have done nothing wrong.

The players that are doing something wrong are being accused. Players are using Discord to sell gold for real world money and using that money to purchase dirt cheap crowns. It's absolutely scummy. And this behavior has ruined it for the rest of the playerbase who were buying crowns legitimately. I could see ZOS taking away all gifting at this point. Hopefully, some big bans are handed out and it'll be back to business as normal for the non scummy crown sellers.

Literally no one is doing anything wrong, at all. Don't make accusations that have no founding, this is why people are getting into trouble for no reason. You're drawing parallels to two completely separate issues in order to pin the blame on people it doesn't belong to.

Everyone already knows selling gold for irl money is a BANNABLE OFFENSE that's AGAINST THE TOS. That is NOTHING to do with the actual problem. It has been ALLOWED FOR YEARS to trade in-game currency for in-game items and vice-versa, CRATES INCLUDED. We have Gina telling us years ago this is the case and that it's fine. Someone posted a screen not too far back that Crown items for Gold is NOT AGAINST THE TOS.

This matter how absolutely nothing to do with people selling gold for money irl and everything to do with CS now telling us that something that's been allowed for YEARS is suddenly no longer allowed and is actively against the TOS. People who HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG, who are just trying to use the system as intended, ARE BEING ACCUSED OF TRYING TO EXPLOIT THE SYSTEM, simply for USING it the way it's meant to be used.

So again, stop making accusations that a) have no basis and b) have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

@ZOS_Kevin
Can you please pass on to the powers that be that we need an actual response on this matter so people will quit making ridiculous claims and conspiracy theories? The latter isn't allowed but then the devs go absolutely silent during critical times for long stretches of time. What do they think is going to happen when communication is so poor?

Ok completely skip over how I said the behaviors by some players have completely screwed over the rest of the playerbase. I never said the action of trading gold for crown store items was not allowed. It has been allowed and is still allowed for some crown store items. And I never accused the players being forced to use this gifting option as trying to exploit the system. This gifting option sucks and hearing players getting soft bans for trying to do what was always allowed really sucks. I never accused these players of doing anything wrong.

You yourself literally said "The players that are doing something wrong are being accused", so yes, you did accuse everyone who has gotten warnings or accusations of doing something wrong, as having done something wrong. And that isn't the case in the slightest. People might have been trying to exchange Crate for Gold in the beginning, but that's because it wasn't until a few days later was it quietly edited into the OP that using the system to do Crates for Gold/Gold for Crates wouldn't be facilitated. Even then no one was doing anything wrong.

Exactly. I did, in fact, send the guilldmate who sent me the crates gift some gold, as a thank-you tip. It was a courtesy thing, for the inconvenience of her having to deal with this new system. And at the time that I did so, and when she submitted her ticket to ZOS customer service (which was actually the day after I reached out to her, and which I was fine with, because again, now worries, she was doing ME a favor and we've been guildies forever) there was NO mention of gold-for-crowns not being allowed under the new system. Just that it had to be someone who was a friend or guildmate. So both she and I were very confused when the ticket was rejected, and we could only assume that the CS reps had looked into our mail history and seen the gold I'd sent her, and just randomly decided that it meant I was buying the crates, which was super frustrating. Both because it wasn't correct and also because even if it had been, that wasn't a violation of the "process" at time of my asking her for the help with this whole fiasco.

I live off of $400 a month. I farm in-game gold by selling things, doing writs, etc. I don't have the free cash to throw around for housing projects, I can only crowns-for-gold or gifting through the generosity of friends, or contests run by guilds, etc. My boyfriend has been wanting to send me crates, but also been unable to, and been frustrated by it.

demonology89

Arunei wrote: »

demonology89 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

demonology89 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Sepultura_13 wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

Honestly we can't trust anything they say anymore.

I wonder if the term "Virtual Currency" might be what is confusing to some? Everyone is insisting that "virtual currency" refers to in-game gold only, but I suspect that it might also refer to cryptocurrency.

I've only gifted crown crates themselves, here and there, to guild-mates during events. Never engaged in the what-seems-scummy "crowns for gold" trading, because it appears that its monopolized by Discord bros and OnlyFans Whoas who have accumulated crypto, or those who code-write and create their own.

If this so-called "soft banning" is getting rid of cheats who somehow have EVERY SINGLE CROWN STORE ITEM because they have UNLIMITED AMOUNTS of "currency," I say good riddance to bad rubbish. Keep this game for gamers, not for criminals who treat everything and everyone as a commodity.

Uh...what? Crypto has NOTHING to do with this, not in any form. None of what you've said applies to this matter. Crypto cannot and does not affect ESO, you can't buy anything in-game with it, and no one is making their own to somehow get every item in the CS for free.

There's also nothing scummy about selling CS items for gold. It's not monopolized by anyone; in fact, several people I know who do it often sell things for below what the average per Crown is, so let's not make accusations about people who have done nothing wrong.

The players that are doing something wrong are being accused. Players are using Discord to sell gold for real world money and using that money to purchase dirt cheap crowns. It's absolutely scummy. And this behavior has ruined it for the rest of the playerbase who were buying crowns legitimately. I could see ZOS taking away all gifting at this point. Hopefully, some big bans are handed out and it'll be back to business as normal for the non scummy crown sellers.

Literally no one is doing anything wrong, at all. Don't make accusations that have no founding, this is why people are getting into trouble for no reason. You're drawing parallels to two completely separate issues in order to pin the blame on people it doesn't belong to.

Everyone already knows selling gold for irl money is a BANNABLE OFFENSE that's AGAINST THE TOS. That is NOTHING to do with the actual problem. It has been ALLOWED FOR YEARS to trade in-game currency for in-game items and vice-versa, CRATES INCLUDED. We have Gina telling us years ago this is the case and that it's fine. Someone posted a screen not too far back that Crown items for Gold is NOT AGAINST THE TOS.

This matter how absolutely nothing to do with people selling gold for money irl and everything to do with CS now telling us that something that's been allowed for YEARS is suddenly no longer allowed and is actively against the TOS. People who HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG, who are just trying to use the system as intended, ARE BEING ACCUSED OF TRYING TO EXPLOIT THE SYSTEM, simply for USING it the way it's meant to be used.

So again, stop making accusations that a) have no basis and b) have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

@ZOS_Kevin
Can you please pass on to the powers that be that we need an actual response on this matter so people will quit making ridiculous claims and conspiracy theories? The latter isn't allowed but then the devs go absolutely silent during critical times for long stretches of time. What do they think is going to happen when communication is so poor?

Ok completely skip over how I said the behaviors by some players have completely screwed over the rest of the playerbase. I never said the action of trading gold for crown store items was not allowed. It has been allowed and is still allowed for some crown store items. And I never accused the players being forced to use this gifting option as trying to exploit the system. This gifting option sucks and hearing players getting soft bans for trying to do what was always allowed really sucks. I never accused these players of doing anything wrong.

You yourself literally said "The players that are doing something wrong are being accused", so yes, you did accuse everyone who has gotten warnings or accusations of doing something wrong, as having done something wrong. And that isn't the case in the slightest. People might have been trying to exchange Crate for Gold in the beginning, but that's because it wasn't until a few days later was it quietly edited into the OP that using the system to do Crates for Gold/Gold for Crates wouldn't be facilitated. Even then no one was doing anything wrong.

And your 'the actions of some players' point is still irrelevant because people buying gold for irl money has 0 to do with this issue. People "getting Crowns for dirt cheap" doesn't make any sense in the context of what's going on, and also has nothing to do with what's going on. Your posts 100% implied that people who sell Crates for gold are scummy, because they...all bought Crowns to get the Crates with money obtained by selling Gold, I guess? Which, again, isn't the problem here.

I also didn't say you were the one accusing people of misusing the system. I'm saying that's what CS has been replying to people with, that their attempts to simply use the system as it's meant to be used are being met with things like "our records indicate you are clearly trying to misuse the system". The screens of that reply have been posted at least a few times here. I personally know someone who got that reply and has since stopped trying to use the system for fear of action being taken against his account.

I suppose I need to apologize for the misunderstanding here.

There was another poster being 'attacked' for claiming discord bros were monopolizing crown for gold selling. I was merely trying to point out that they were partially right. Somehow my words have been misconstrued to say I was accusing all crown sellers as being scummy. I was merely referring to the players that sell gold for money and buy dirt cheap crowns by taking advantage of currency exchange rates as scummy. And a lot of these players do their transactions in discord. Sorry you thought I viewed all crown sellers as bad. Far from the truth. I love crown sellers, especially guildies who have the crowns when I don't and there's a limited time mount on the crown store. They are awesome!

Edited to add- I don't purchase crates at all with crowns or gold. I hate the idea of them because it is gambling. This temporary disabling doesn't affect me at all. What I am anxious about is if any and all fraudulent behavior isn't nipped in the bud, all gifting from the crown store may be disabled at a later date. And that will really suck because I like to buy a lot of mounts, name or race changes, etc.

Kirawolfe

They told us we could use this system to gift crates.
They did not say we couldn't trade gold for crowns after crates had been gifted - something OK'd by Zos previously.
They didn't tell anyone that this policy had changed.
They have accused some folks who used this system in good faith of doing things they've never done.

This was exceptionally poorly handled and only adds to the mistrust and anger folks feel towards this company.

gangyzgirl

@ZOS_Kevin

On Sunday I applied a ticket to gift crown crates to a friend. It's now Wednesday and an agent still has not even looked at it yet. How long should it take before I should find out if it was approved or not?

dosco

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

[...] real people are going through these [requests] to execute the transaction.

this aged very poorly

Darkmage1337

It has been 78 hours. My order still has not been processed. My ticket has been stuck on "waiting on agent."

Fontecc

Update to my post on #184

After messaging on 27/7 "I would like to appeal the decision, this is a gift." I did get a positive responde nearly a week after, on 2/8. Perhaps this delay (other messages took a day) is due to being a human response.



I have confirmed the crowns were withdrawn and all gifts I requested have been received by my friends.
And so ends the saga for me.

Quackery

Why is it not possible to gift crown crates on Xbox NA-server? It worked fine 1-2 months ago and it's now broken??

fizl101

Quackery wrote: »

Why is it not possible to gift crown crates on Xbox NA-server? It worked fine 1-2 months ago and it's now broken??

Its been turned off for a while, on console it was turned off a little while back. There is a process to gift crown crates as per the first post

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/637779/crown-crate-gifting-fraudulent-activity-on-consoles#latest

DUTCH_REAPER

I followed the directions, 2 days later the crates still have not been gifted. It says “waiting on Agent”

muscle_witch

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

I followed the directions, 2 days later the crates still have not been gifted. It says “waiting on Agent”

Settle in, you're one of us now

Arunei

Remember when ZOS told us they were working on doing better with communication for the nth time?

muscle_witch

Arunei wrote: »

Remember when ZOS told us they were working on doing better with communication for the nth time?

Listen, if we still trust ZOS to do what they say in this, the year 2023, then that's a "fool me twice shame on me" kinda situation. At this point, we should just be placing bets on how far and in what ways they're going to fall short of the mark (If we were the kind of moral degenerates who engaged in gambling. Which is definitely not what Crown Crates are. I'm not sure why I even brought it up, actually)