Crown Crate Gifting Temporary Solution Process

virtus753

RedrunnerFred wrote: »

Tried this process twice with two of my friends over the past week. One didn't go through because when he returned from a 4 year hiatus he didn't meet the 90 day active requirement. The second one said something about how redeemed content is not downloadable, exchangeable or refundable and then it was rejected. He didn't even redeem the crates, though he had crowns for it. This is confusing to me because I thought the whole point of the process was that gifting crown crates to friends is possible. Not sure if customer support is getting the memo with these responses or if this is just an automated response.

It seems that some people at Support are under the impression that crates are crowns or otherwise qualify as currency. They can’t quote ToS saying exchanging crates for gold is prohibited because the current terms don’t say that in any way. Instead they are implicitly equating crates with crowns and then quoting the applicable ToS regarding crowns for gold being prohibited. They seem to be thinking that people are exchanging crowns for gold via crate exchanges, but that isn’t consistent with the reality of the system, since crates cannot be turned back into crowns or any other currency. Crates and their contents are (non-refundable) virtual goods, not currency, which should be obvious even without Gina’s explicit statement from 2018 that “a Crown Store item is an in-game item.” Therefore any ToS about virtual currency can’t be applied to crates.

I find it ironic that Support is the only party that can exchange crates back to crowns as an exception, and if they’re doing that, well, they might want to stop?

Vulkunne

RINEgameYouTube wrote: »

How'd you guys get a photo of me? I was just patiently waiting for my ticket to go thru gawwwd. C'mon man.

Kimberlyand

I’ve been playing this game daily for 5+ years. I have had ESO+ that whole time and have pre-purchased every chapter.

If ZOS holds to their position that buying crowns from friends using gold is forbidden, I will likely stop playing. As much as I love all elements of this game, I absolutely live for furnishings and cosmetic items, and no way can I afford buying them myself.

This position will likely lead to me quitting the game, and I’m sure I’m not the only one.

ZOS, please don’t kill ESO.

Arunei

So how much longer do the devs need before they finally tell us what's up? Communication to your players has become nothing more than a meme at this point and that's really not a good look.

Also this is directed strictly at the higher ups that dictate what can be said and when it can be said. Kevin can't do or say anything until they tell him he can. What I want to know is why it almost always takes weeks before they give him and the others anything of substance they can tell us. Especially on matters where it DOES NOT TAKE weeks for them to give us actual answers.

This is a very straightforward question that doesn't need weeks to figure out an answer to: Is selling or buying items from the CS now considered a ToS violation, or not? There's 0 excuse for why they haven't told us one way or the other by now.

GooGa592

Kimberlyand wrote: »

I’ve been playing this game daily for 5+ years. I have had ESO+ that whole time and have pre-purchased every chapter.

If ZOS holds to their position that buying crowns from friends using gold is forbidden, I will likely stop playing. As much as I love all elements of this game, I absolutely live for furnishings and cosmetic items, and no way can I afford buying them myself.

This position will likely lead to me quitting the game, and I’m sure I’m not the only one.

ZOS, please don’t kill ESO.

No reason to quit playing, just quit paying until they get this issue sorted out.

DragonRacer

By the way, now another ESO Facebook group is talking about this. Because the CS reps are literally telling people attempting to use this gifting program that they are in violation of TOS, people are interpreting that exchanging in-game gold now for ANY item (not just crates) to be gifted is now a violation and they have announced they will not allow posts anymore of people seeking to buy/sell Crown Store gifts nor will they post up to warn people of Crown scanners since they now think the exchange of ANYTHING in the store is now a violation of TOS so nobody should be scammed in the future because they shouldn’t be looking for sellers in-game to begin with.

If this is what you wanted by this confusion and lack of clarification to the community, you have achieved it with flying colors.

Spookiest

ZOS continuing to try and solve this situation with zero communication/cooperation with the player-base, lol.

Go to the previous thread and see their approach to this "bug"; the consistent complaints that ZOS would only pop in to clean up some comments and drop some variant of "thank you for your patience!".

Then see now the delivered "fix" and how it's somehow failed to meet even the lowest of expectations.

I've said before, can't really blame them for thinking they can operate this way seeing as they've literally left game-breaking bugs in for years despite player outcry.

It's a lovely game, but I'm staying unsubbed. Have moved past the Crown Crates to be honest, just feel foolish continuing to invest in a game with this type of leadership. The Skyrim mod scene is nuts right now, and I'm now following some talented mod authors that cite/have clear ESO influences!

virtus753

DragonRacer wrote: »

By the way, now another ESO Facebook group is talking about this. Because the CS reps are literally telling people attempting to use this gifting program that they are in violation of TOS, people are interpreting that exchanging in-game gold now for ANY item (not just crates) to be gifted is now a violation and they have announced they will not allow posts anymore of people seeking to buy/sell Crown Store gifts nor will they post up to warn people of Crown scanners since they now think the exchange of ANYTHING in the store is now a violation of TOS so nobody should be scammed in the future because they shouldn’t be looking for sellers in-game to begin with.

If this is what you wanted by this confusion and lack of clarification to the community, you have achieved it with flying colors.

To add to this:

There is now being circulated in some guilds and Discords a rumor (but being given out as official policy and fact) that players are getting banned for trying to gift crates through this system.

I imagine this arose as a result of people being scared into thinking they’ll be banned as a result of the ToS accusations being leveled by Support. So far I don’t know of anyone who has actually gotten banned. But this whole thing is quickly getting out of hand and is only going to get worse the longer it sits.

muscle_witch

GooGa592 wrote: »

Kimberlyand wrote: »

I’ve been playing this game daily for 5+ years. I have had ESO+ that whole time and have pre-purchased every chapter.

If ZOS holds to their position that buying crowns from friends using gold is forbidden, I will likely stop playing. As much as I love all elements of this game, I absolutely live for furnishings and cosmetic items, and no way can I afford buying them myself.

This position will likely lead to me quitting the game, and I’m sure I’m not the only one.

ZOS, please don’t kill ESO.

No reason to quit playing, just quit paying until they get this issue sorted out.

Once you make the decision to quit paying, quitting playing becomes a foregone conclusion* - once I made the decision to not spend any money on the game, it took about a month before I went from logging in every day to logging in 1-4 times a month, maximum. Time and money are both expressions of an investment in a hobby, and once you make the decision to cut one off entirely, you start to question the investment of the other.

*I know that you said until the issue gets sorted out, but we're coming up on the five month mark in a little over a week, so we're potentially talking over a year of playing without paying, and let's face it - ESO without + is a neverending series of chores to try and manage the gameplay without some pretty hefty QoL improvements

SaffronCitrusflower

muscle_witch wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Kimberlyand wrote: »

I’ve been playing this game daily for 5+ years. I have had ESO+ that whole time and have pre-purchased every chapter.

If ZOS holds to their position that buying crowns from friends using gold is forbidden, I will likely stop playing. As much as I love all elements of this game, I absolutely live for furnishings and cosmetic items, and no way can I afford buying them myself.

This position will likely lead to me quitting the game, and I’m sure I’m not the only one.

ZOS, please don’t kill ESO.

No reason to quit playing, just quit paying until they get this issue sorted out.

Once you make the decision to quit paying, quitting playing becomes a foregone conclusion* - once I made the decision to not spend any money on the game, it took about a month before I went from logging in every day to logging in 1-4 times a month, maximum. Time and money are both expressions of an investment in a hobby, and once you make the decision to cut one off entirely, you start to question the investment of the other.

*I know that you said until the issue gets sorted out, but we're coming up on the five month mark in a little over a week, so we're potentially talking over a year of playing without paying, and let's face it - ESO without + is a neverending series of chores to try and manage the gameplay without some pretty hefty QoL improvements

I quit paying when U35 was on PTS when I saw how much I disapproved of so many of the changes during the update. But then again, I've already paid more than $3,000 to play ESO since 2014, so I figure I've paid my dues for perpetuity even if I never sub again.

muscle_witch

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

muscle_witch wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Kimberlyand wrote: »

I’ve been playing this game daily for 5+ years. I have had ESO+ that whole time and have pre-purchased every chapter.

If ZOS holds to their position that buying crowns from friends using gold is forbidden, I will likely stop playing. As much as I love all elements of this game, I absolutely live for furnishings and cosmetic items, and no way can I afford buying them myself.

This position will likely lead to me quitting the game, and I’m sure I’m not the only one.

ZOS, please don’t kill ESO.

No reason to quit playing, just quit paying until they get this issue sorted out.

Once you make the decision to quit paying, quitting playing becomes a foregone conclusion* - once I made the decision to not spend any money on the game, it took about a month before I went from logging in every day to logging in 1-4 times a month, maximum. Time and money are both expressions of an investment in a hobby, and once you make the decision to cut one off entirely, you start to question the investment of the other.

*I know that you said until the issue gets sorted out, but we're coming up on the five month mark in a little over a week, so we're potentially talking over a year of playing without paying, and let's face it - ESO without + is a neverending series of chores to try and manage the gameplay without some pretty hefty QoL improvements

I quit paying when U35 was on PTS when I saw how much I disapproved of so many of the changes during the update. But then again, I've already paid more than $3,000 to play ESO since 2014, so I figure I've paid my dues for perpetuity even if I never sub again.

I mean, you paid your dues when you bought the game - everything else is extra.

Vulkunne

virtus753 wrote: »

DragonRacer wrote: »

By the way, now another ESO Facebook group is talking about this. Because the CS reps are literally telling people attempting to use this gifting program that they are in violation of TOS, people are interpreting that exchanging in-game gold now for ANY item (not just crates) to be gifted is now a violation and they have announced they will not allow posts anymore of people seeking to buy/sell Crown Store gifts nor will they post up to warn people of Crown scanners since they now think the exchange of ANYTHING in the store is now a violation of TOS so nobody should be scammed in the future because they shouldn’t be looking for sellers in-game to begin with.

If this is what you wanted by this confusion and lack of clarification to the community, you have achieved it with flying colors.

To add to this:

There is now being circulated in some guilds and Discords a rumor (but being given out as official policy and fact) that players are getting banned for trying to gift crates through this system.

I imagine this arose as a result of people being scared into thinking they’ll be banned as a result of the ToS accusations being leveled by Support. So far I don’t know of anyone who has actually gotten banned. But this whole thing is quickly getting out of hand and is only going to get worse the longer it sits.

As of this morning I am inclined to believe there may be something to this. (Not at all trying to get on the hype train or anything like that) Now my account is fine however if you look at their request form it basically says your account needs to be in good standing with no TOS violations for the last 6 months.

Ergo, many of us who just used the service instantly took a hit. That's strike one. So others who may have been on the fence, (I'm not saying they were), however if they refuse your request saying you have a TOS violation and it doesn't get lifted then that could possibly be counted as a strike against your account. Judging by their language one could surmise... your account is no longer in 'good standing'. Just from using this request alone.

So then, depending on who you deal with they may see that and take it a step further, if something else happens or let's say you have too many things against you already, then yeah it could add up. It seems this temporary solution may be the gift that we don't want. And so I think it safe to say that doing this is 100% not worth it. Its not worth the requester taking a hit, or possibly losing their account over and anyone who really cares about you would not be able to enjoy their 'gifts' anyways.

- You can't receive anything for sending someone Crates
- If you do send in a request, you automatically put your account at risk
- No friend of mine would want this for me to lose my account so they can enjoy a few Crates with lousy rewards as others on here have said

It makes me wonder about this wonderful 'solution' of there's. It doesn't really seem to benefit anyone so why have it. Strange.

DragonRacer

Yeah, this temporary solution is feeling more and more like entrapment with the way CS is responding to people.

The official silence in this thread is deafening and I'm at the point I'm honestly afraid of buying anything from the Crown Store unless it's my own Crowns, which means that will be an instant drop in revenue as I hoard my Crowns and only spend them on what I really, really want.

Vulkunne

DragonRacer wrote: »

Yeah, this temporary solution is feeling more and more like entrapment with the way CS is responding to people.

The official silence in this thread is deafening and I'm at the point I'm honestly afraid of buying anything from the Crown Store unless it's my own Crowns, which means that will be an instant drop in revenue as I hoard my Crowns and only spend them on what I really, really want.

Yeah and I'm not... you know... trying to say this or that. Not my place to judge. Just so little information, no foreword or announcement before hand and alot of silence. So naturally, because of this its up to us to do the best we can with what little we know.

I also think for those of us who opened these requests initially when the form did not specify anything about not permitting Crown Crates for Gold Exchanges, (that last line item) the same should *ALL* neither suffer a hit or ban because of this and have our accounts remain in good standing because they didn't say, other than what has already been said, permitting gold to be accepted.

The request was granted but its no one's fault. I think that's fair and that's how I will operate going forward and just refrain from using the form or opening any new requests for this.

Arunei

So, I know this is the case every so often, but I had to accept the ToS again after the update again, as did a friend of mine who's tried to gift Crates using this system. Unfortunately, neither of us thought to read through it for any changes in gifting in relation to Crown Crates or gifting in general.

It just seems strange that given recent circumstances, we're required to accept the ToS again. It might just be coincidence, but I think it's time to pull up the ToS and have a look to see what might have changed (assuming the link to them here on the site is already updated with any changes).

virtus753

Arunei wrote: »

So, I know this is the case every so often, but I had to accept the ToS again after the update again, as did a friend of mine who's tried to gift Crates using this system. Unfortunately, neither of us thought to read through it for any changes in gifting in relation to Crown Crates or gifting in general.

It just seems strange that given recent circumstances, we're required to accept the ToS again. It might just be coincidence, but I think it's time to pull up the ToS and have a look to see what might have changed (assuming the link to them here on the site is already updated with any changes).

Are you sure it was the ToS? For me it was only the Privacy Policy, not the ToS. Those are two different documents.

The new Privacy Policy has been posted online. The ToS haven't been updated since December of 2021.

DragonRacer

PC had a privacy policy update, not TOS update. Console will get it Wednesday. But someone posted the link to in the patch notes thread earlier and I read through the whole blasted thing - it is only about privacy and how ZOS collects/uses your data. Zilch about this gifting fiasco.

valenwood_vegan

Yeah I did actually read through it (on PC) and it was only privacy policy stuff. I was worried about it too lol.

Twig_Garlicshine

Did anyone really think Zos enabled a manual transaction process through customer service reps to enable discord bros to be back in business as usual?
Think about it for a second.
A temporary pain in the butt process to alleviate some of the forum flack, and bad P.R. from players
or a
back to business as usual for crate sellers and gamblers?

They did state this was only for gifting to friends and guilds, not every player who hits discord looking to fill their crate opening fix.

Soraka

Gina's post was in 2018 (5 years ago) and before Microsoft purchased zos. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the policy has changed, as appears to be the case from Kevin's update and the responses received.
I don't really have a stake in this so I do empathize with individuals who are having to deal with this, I just think maybe the writing is on the wall and people don't want to see it.

dosco

if they really prohibit it now, it shouldn't be hard to confirm this here.

TaSheen

dosco wrote: »

if they really prohibit it now, it shouldn't be hard to confirm this here.

Exactly. It shouldn't be difficult to post a sentence or two, basically saying we're working on sorting out the issues with CS, or sorry, you can no longer do this.

DragonRacer

TaSheen wrote: »

dosco wrote: »

if they really prohibit it now, it shouldn't be hard to confirm this here.

Exactly. It shouldn't be difficult to post a sentence or two, basically saying we're working on sorting out the issues with CS, or sorry, you can no longer do this.

Right, that’s really all any of us are asking at this point. We weren’t concerned about a potential change in TOS until CS reps started accusing people of being in violation of it by utilizing this program.

There are guilds who vet trusted Crown sellers for buying and selling in-game Crown Store items for in-game gold so guildmates know they won’t be scammed by these sellers as opposed to buying from strangers in zone chat. PC has whole Discords and guilds dedicated to it. It is an entire in-game market operating on Gina’s old posts saying it was fine and dandy.

Pretty sure we would KINDA LIKE TO KNOW if this is now actually a TOS violation so we can protect ourselves and educate buyers/sellers.

Jaimeh

Fkey wrote: »

Did anyone really think Zos enabled a manual transaction process through customer service reps to enable discord bros to be back in business as usual?
Think about it for a second.
A temporary pain in the butt process to alleviate some of the forum flack, and bad P.R. from players
or a
back to business as usual for crate sellers and gamblers?

They did state this was only for gifting to friends and guilds, not every player who hits discord looking to fill their crate opening fix.

This ^ As soon as they announced the fix, TCE discord said they wouldn't bother with this process because they likely realized there would be problems. For anyone still trying to get crates through gifting, I think it'd be better that the seller not mention in their message to support that they are trading the crates and that it's just a gift to a friend.

GooGa592

With all this hubub and back and forth it seems like people should just stop trying to force the issue.

Just stop trying to use this system to "gift" crown crates. Maybe if crown sales slow down enough ZOS will decide to re-enable crown crate gifting.

I fear if this situation is harped on too much they will just remove the ability to gift anything from the crown store.

virtus753

GooGa592 wrote: »

With all this hubub and back and forth it seems like people should just stop trying to force the issue.

Just stop trying to use this system to "gift" crown crates. Maybe if crown sales slow down enough ZOS will decide to re-enable crown crate gifting.

I fear if this situation is harped on too much they will just remove the ability to gift anything from the crown store.

Some of us are not trying to force Support to do anything at all. I personally would just like to understand from the Community Managers why the responses from Support are not “we are not facilitating exchanges for gold” but rather “what we think you’re trying to do is a violation of ToS” when those ToS are not applicable to the situation and the type of exchange they’re alleging to be in violation has previously been explicitly approved by a CM. Support’s response has a lot of people concerned over a lot more than crates. It is causing fear and distrust even among those who aren’t trying to use the system at all.

I have no problem with Support declining to facilitate gold exchanges as part of the policy of this temporary system. I have a problem with players being accused of violating ToS in an unintelligible and contradictory way. Asking for clarification of ToS is a valid inquiry and deserves an answer, especially since we are all subject to those terms and Support’s interpretation of the ToS would seem to impact far more than this temporary system for crate gifting. We will all have a very hard time abiding by ToS if they’re being understood and potentially enforced in an unclear way.

muscle_witch

GooGa592 wrote: »

With all this hubub and back and forth it seems like people should just stop trying to force the issue.

Just stop trying to use this system to "gift" crown crates. Maybe if crown sales slow down enough ZOS will decide to re-enable crown crate gifting.

I fear if this situation is harped on too much they will just remove the ability to gift anything from the crown store.

It is extremely messed up that it would even be credible to fear that a major functionality will be removed because ZOS got tired of people complaining about them disabling a game function without telling anyone, letting everyone think it was a bug for months, claiming that a temporary solution will be rolled out, and then offering a solution that not only blatantly doesn't work but also potentially will lead to strikes on peoples accounts while refusing to offer any clarification. Not saying you're wrong, just saying that it's messed up.

Necrotech_Master

GooGa592 wrote: »

With all this hubub and back and forth it seems like people should just stop trying to force the issue.

Just stop trying to use this system to "gift" crown crates. Maybe if crown sales slow down enough ZOS will decide to re-enable crown crate gifting.

I fear if this situation is harped on too much they will just remove the ability to gift anything from the crown store.

i doubt they would remove all gifting from the store, again since this entire thing is currently only affecting crates (likely due to gambling law legalities instead of "fraud")

i personally would prefer if they just got rid of the crates entirely and offered the items for sale directly (the ironic thing is buying them with endeavors is bypassing paying crowns at all for the items, and you get what you want even if the endeavors take awhile to stock up)

Zastrix

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

With all this hubub and back and forth it seems like people should just stop trying to force the issue.

Just stop trying to use this system to "gift" crown crates. Maybe if crown sales slow down enough ZOS will decide to re-enable crown crate gifting.

I fear if this situation is harped on too much they will just remove the ability to gift anything from the crown store.

i doubt they would remove all gifting from the store, again since this entire thing is currently only affecting crates (likely due to gambling law legalities instead of "fraud")

i personally would prefer if they just got rid of the crates entirely and offered the items for sale directly (the ironic thing is buying them with endeavors is bypassing paying crowns at all for the items, and you get what you want even if the endeavors take awhile to stock up)

Yeah but that generates less money by not forcing you to gamble (it's not a surprise loot mechanics, it's gamble. A gambling machine isn't a surprise loot mechanic automaton) so greedy zos won't implement this.

Also the endeavours change constantly and for the good mounts you need around a year of farming (or more) to get an apex mount. And crown crates last for, what? A week and a half to fake how 'temporarily they are'.

Necrotech_Master

Zastrix wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

With all this hubub and back and forth it seems like people should just stop trying to force the issue.

Just stop trying to use this system to "gift" crown crates. Maybe if crown sales slow down enough ZOS will decide to re-enable crown crate gifting.

I fear if this situation is harped on too much they will just remove the ability to gift anything from the crown store.

i doubt they would remove all gifting from the store, again since this entire thing is currently only affecting crates (likely due to gambling law legalities instead of "fraud")

i personally would prefer if they just got rid of the crates entirely and offered the items for sale directly (the ironic thing is buying them with endeavors is bypassing paying crowns at all for the items, and you get what you want even if the endeavors take awhile to stock up)

Yeah but that generates less money by not forcing you to gamble (it's not a surprise loot mechanics, it's gamble. A gambling machine isn't a surprise loot mechanic automaton) so greedy zos won't implement this.

Also the endeavours change constantly and for the good mounts you need around a year of farming (or more) to get an apex mount. And crown crates last for, what? A week and a half to fake how 'temporarily they are'.

i dont think zos will have a choice if more and more countries jump on the "loot boxes is gambling and should be banned" bandwagon lol

and crown crate seasons last for about 4 months, the returning crates being limited time are only about 1.5 weeks

on a per week basis, you could expect to earn a minimum of 410 endeavors (200 for the weekly and 10x3 per day for each daily), the actual amount is probably closer to 500 per week (weekly usually gives between 200-230, and the daily is usually 10 or 15)

so roughly 2000 per month (~4 months to earn an apex mount, ~8 months for a radiant apex, or in more general terms, ~24000 seals per year if you dont miss any daily or weeklies in that time frame)

not great, but not insignificant, and i dont kid myself either, i know the seals were only added as another way to try to bypass the gamble laws and keep the crates in store