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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
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Flame Staff and Tri Focus
Billium813
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The new Tri-Focus Passive
After some initial testing on the PTS, I don't think this passive is working as intended for Flame Staff. If you continuously hold HA, then the Tri Focus passive keeps re-applying before the tick ever has a chance to deal damage.
And if you are weaving, as most people would, I think this re-applying behavior is causing skipping of a lot of damage procs. The overall DPS addition from this new Tri Focus is not really looking that impactful for HA Inferno Staves IMO.
After some initial testing on the PTS, I don't think this passive is working as intended for Flame Staff. If you continuously hold HA, then the Tri Focus passive keeps re-applying before the tick ever has a chance to deal damage.
And if you are weaving, as most people would, I think this re-applying behavior is causing skipping of a lot of damage procs. The overall DPS addition from this new Tri Focus is not really looking that impactful for HA Inferno Staves IMO.
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Billium813✭✭✭✭✭
✭Definitely needs to do the first tick on impact.
I definitely think it should first tick on the initial application of the Tri Focus debuff... but that still isn't going to fix the issue.
I think the cast time of inferno HA is shorter than the tick window for the damage? If it always did the damage on impact, then holding HA would end up dealing damage more then it should. They also can't just reduce the window to re-apply, since it would also end up skipping fractions of seconds when reupping to 20 seconds in the middle of a damage tick.
Perhaps the best fix would be to just not re-apply the Tri Focus debuff until it runs out, then just have another HA re-apply it.Edited by Billium813 on July 12, 2023 3:56AM0 -
Braffin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Billium813 wrote: »Definitely needs to do the first tick on impact.
I definitely think it should first tick on the initial application of the Tri Focus debuff... but that still isn't going to fix the issue.
I think the cast time of inferno HA is shorter than the tick window for the damage? If it always did the damage on impact, then holding HA would end up dealing damage more then it should. They also can't just reduce the window to re-apply, since it would also end up skipping fractions of seconds when reupping to 20 seconds in the middle of a damage tick.
Perhaps the best fix would be to just not re-apply the Tri Focus debuff until it runs out, then just have another HA re-apply it.
Well, that's what I call a critical oversight. 😆
Seconding your solution btw. But this is still leaving the issue, that more than 1 HA per 20 sec is basically wasted dmg.
Maybe add a slight buff for consecutive HA to the affected target could solve this? Burning status comes in mind to have a synergy to the ancient knowledge changes.Never get between a cat and it's candy!
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Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.2 -
Billium813✭✭✭✭✭
✭Billium813 wrote: »Definitely needs to do the first tick on impact.
I definitely think it should first tick on the initial application of the Tri Focus debuff... but that still isn't going to fix the issue.
I think the cast time of inferno HA is shorter than the tick window for the damage? If it always did the damage on impact, then holding HA would end up dealing damage more then it should. They also can't just reduce the window to re-apply, since it would also end up skipping fractions of seconds when reupping to 20 seconds in the middle of a damage tick.
Perhaps the best fix would be to just not re-apply the Tri Focus debuff until it runs out, then just have another HA re-apply it.
But this is still leaving the issue, that more than 1 HA per 20 sec is basically wasted dmg.
Maybe add a slight buff for consecutive HA to the affected target could solve this? Burning status comes in mind to have a synergy to the ancient knowledge changes.
Fair. It would be ideal for it to keep renewing the timer as long as Fully Charged HAs are being made, but tying that to the damage ticks seems to be where the problem lays.
I think when ZOS does this sort of damage effect, they usually don't allow it to renew until the effect has run out. Something like Burning Spellweave, where they add "The effect can occur once every X seconds". Otherwise, it would keep re-applying and acting weird, just like Tri-Focus is acting now.
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ZhuJiuyin✭✭✭✭I'm curious, does The new Tri-Focus Passive make Flame Staff subject to Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet?
Or the Flame Staff bonus damage given by the Tri-Focus Passive is not affected by Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet?"是燭九陰，是燭龍。"──by "The Classic of Mountains and Seas "English is not my first language,If something is ambiguous, rude due to context and translation issues, etc., please remind me, thanks.1 -
Billium813✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm curious, does The new Tri-Focus Passive make Flame Staff subject to Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet?
Or the Flame Staff bonus damage given by the Tri-Focus Passive is not affected by Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet?
Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet reduces your light and Heavy attack damage by 99%, but you STILL do 1% damage! Meaning, that the Tri Focus will still proc on damage and apply. After that, the damage from the Tri Focus passive is not HA/LA damage, it's totally separate.
TLDR; the new Tri Focus passive for Inferno Staff will be buffed by Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet, not reduced by 99%
Edited by Billium813 on July 12, 2023 3:23PM2 -
ZhuJiuyin✭✭✭✭Billium813 wrote: »Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet reduces your light and Heavy attack damage by 99%, but you STILL do 1% damage! Meaning, that the Tri Focus will still proc on damage and apply. After that, the damage from the Tri Focus passive is not HA/LA damage, it's totally separate.
TLDR; the new Tri Focus passive for Inferno Staff will be buffed by Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet, not reduced by 99%
Sounds good, if paired with Yandir's Might this seems to make the Inferno Staff heavy attack an effective option"是燭九陰，是燭龍。"──by "The Classic of Mountains and Seas "English is not my first language,If something is ambiguous, rude due to context and translation issues, etc., please remind me, thanks.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Billium813 wrote: »I'm curious, does The new Tri-Focus Passive make Flame Staff subject to Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet?
Or the Flame Staff bonus damage given by the Tri-Focus Passive is not affected by Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet?
Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet reduces your light and Heavy attack damage by 99%, but you STILL do 1% damage! Meaning, that the Tri Focus will still proc on damage and apply. After that, the damage from the Tri Focus passive is not HA/LA damage, it's totally separate.
TLDR; the new Tri Focus passive for Inferno Staff will be buffed by Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet, not reduced by 99%
That is interesting. Not sure if it really makes flame staff PVE viable, but an interaction to look into for sure.0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Billium813 wrote: »Definitely needs to do the first tick on impact.
I definitely think it should first tick on the initial application of the Tri Focus debuff... but that still isn't going to fix the issue.
I think the cast time of inferno HA is shorter than the tick window for the damage? If it always did the damage on impact, then holding HA would end up dealing damage more then it should. They also can't just reduce the window to re-apply, since it would also end up skipping fractions of seconds when reupping to 20 seconds in the middle of a damage tick.
Perhaps the best fix would be to just not re-apply the Tri Focus debuff until it runs out, then just have another HA re-apply it.
I think the HA window is just under 2s. If you were to hold down the HA permanently then yes, refreshing and applying the first tick on the initial hit would be around 10% more overall tick damage from this effect than intended. I don't think this would be a big deal at all. In fact seeing as how Inferno staves are in danger of being abandoned next update, I think it's probably a good idea to allow any quirk of extra damage to go through.
Same with reapplying before the next tick happens in the middle of the DoT's run. That would always be a net positive for DPS, and would make tracking the buff less of a chore.0 -
Billium813✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some other interesting sets- Elemental Catalyst
The Tri Focus damage isn't procing Elemental Catalyst. Is that expected?
- Way of Fire + Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet
The additional damage from Way of Fire is not reduced by 99%
- Elf Bane
The Tri Focus debuff does get extended by 5 seconds
- Encratis's Behemoth
The damage from the HA procs Encratis's Behemoth, and the damage from the Tri Focus proc does seem to get +5%. However, the additional 5 seconds of Tri Focus, at the end, does not seem to re-apply Encratis's Behemoth after the cooldown is over. Is that expected?
- Silks of the Sun
The 400 W/S Damage does increase the Tri Focus damage
5 - Elemental Catalyst
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jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Billium813 wrote: »Some other interesting sets- Elemental Catalyst
The Tri Focus damage isn't procing Elemental Catalyst. Is that expected? - Way of Fire + Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet
The additional damage from Way of Fire is not reduced by 99% - Elf Bane
The Tri Focus debuff does get extended by 5 seconds - Encratis's Behemoth
The damage from the HA procs Encratis's Behemoth, and the damage from the Tri Focus proc does seem to get +5%. However, the additional 5 seconds of Tri Focus, at the end, does not seem to re-apply Encratis's Behemoth after the cooldown is over. Is that expected? - Silks of the Sun
The 400 W/S Damage does increase the Tri Focus damage
Way of Fire makes sense. It isn't adding the damage to your heavy attack damage it is adding a proc along side your heavy attack damage, it also adds the proc alongside any damage you do with a weapon skill. Functionally very different from a set like Nobles that adds damage directly into the damage your heavy attack does.Edited by jaws343 on July 12, 2023 5:41PM2 - Elemental Catalyst
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JerBearESO✭✭✭✭I highly doubt this change is to promote heavy attacks spamming with inferno. It's more like fit a heavy in every 20 seconds for a free DoT.
Inferno is becoming a damage backbar option, especially pvp wise. On backbar it's ice vs fire for defense vs offense with HA into ele sus0 -
Billium813✭✭✭✭✭
✭JerBearESO wrote: »I highly doubt this change is to promote heavy attacks spamming with inferno. It's more like fit a heavy in every 20 seconds for a free DoT.
Inferno is becoming a damage backbar option, especially pvp wise. On backbar it's ice vs fire for defense vs offense with HA into ele sus
I'm sure they don't expect constant HA spamming, but it should work with that behavior regardless.
Green is when damage is occurring
Black represents when a new HA occurs, resetting back to the start
Consider HA weaving, or even simply doing another HA between damage procs. If you initiate another HA just before the damage was going to proc, say at second 16.25, you reset the Tri Focus debuff and have to wait ANOTHER 2 seconds for the damage. Meaning you've waited 3.75 seconds, performed HAs, and got no dot damage. This means that any HA within the 20 seconds is going to reduce the damage. A real HA weaving in PvE ends up chopping off lots of these damage windows every time it re-applies and seriously degrades the DPS output, through no fault of the player. In my testing, I'm often only seeing the damage tick at 18 seconds, then not seeing another one for almost 4 seconds. That's almost 50% less damage then is expected since damage ticks are essentially being skipped.
Edited by Billium813 on July 12, 2023 7:03PM0