Arms of Relequen is the new Savage WW and needs to be nerfed

StaticWave

The set can tick 3 times in 1 second. Screenshots of CMX below:





I'm not sure if this was intended but it needs to have the same treatment as Savage WW

JerBearESO

No.... Stop trying to get something that represents an entire play style nerfed. It is NOT even the same as savage was. Rele is stack based and therefore hard countered by cleansing. It also procs maras balm since it is being reapplied constantly. It also cannot crit despite forcing two crit lines on your build. It's fine where it's at.

The only way to proc it 3 times within one second is with the set that buffs your attack speed.... Even then, the third proc is technically the first proc of the next second....

Get your misinformation out of here

StaticWave

JerBearESO wrote: »

No.... Stop trying to get something that represents an entire play style nerfed. It is NOT even the same as savage was. Rele is stack based and therefore hard countered by cleansing. It also procs maras balm since it is being reapplied constantly. It also cannot crit despite forcing two crit lines on your build. It's fine where it's at.

The only way to proc it 3 times within one second is with the set that buffs your attack speed.... Even then, the third proc is technically the first proc of the next second....

Get your misinformation out of here

Sigh…No, I dueled a competent NB with Rallying Cry and Relequen. He didn’t have any attack speed buff lol.

I knew there would be comments like yours. I’ll just post a video next time

StaticWave

JerBearESO wrote: »

No.... Stop trying to get something that represents an entire play style nerfed. It is NOT even the same as savage was. Rele is stack based and therefore hard countered by cleansing. It also procs maras balm since it is being reapplied constantly. It also cannot crit despite forcing two crit lines on your build. It's fine where it's at.

The only way to proc it 3 times within one second is with the set that buffs your attack speed.... Even then, the third proc is technically the first proc of the next second....

Get your misinformation out of here

1) Removing Relequen will not remove an entire playstyle lol

2) It is the same as savage ww pre nerf. Both sets proc off light and heavy attacks and can proc twice

3) Cleansing isn’t gonna hard counter a set that procs off light attacks lol. It’s a waste of resources.

4) Those crit lines will still benefit your abilities. You’re talking like the crits don’t help your build

5) It doesn’t need an attack speed buff to proc 2-3 times in a second.

6) It looks like you’re defending this set because you’re using it, kinda like when people defended savage ww because they were abusing it. It’s pretty disingenuous of you to say that

El_Borracho

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

This is a perfect example of what PVE players complain about. Relequen is not just a PVE set, it is the set for almost all stamina PVE DD builds. But since it damaged another player in PVP, it gots to go.

Its not Savage Werewolf. Its not the old Ravager. Its not Crimson Twilight. Its not the old Elf Bane/Zaan combo. Its a trials set. Its been out since 2018. Just because a PVE player won a duel wearing it doesn't make it OP.

DrNukenstein

Relequen is doody in pvp. I play under 30k health with only 1 piece heavy and can't remember the last time I died with the green winds on me. It's almost like it helps the person affected.

If you don't PVP and are reading this post, disregard it. Relequen is never even decent outside of high end PVE situations where stuff lives for longer than 5 seconds.

DocFrost72

El_Borracho wrote: »

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

This is a perfect example of what PVE players complain about. Relequen is not just a PVE set, it is the set for almost all stamina PVE DD builds.

Respectfully, this may be enough reason to change it...

El_Borracho

DocFrost72 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

This is a perfect example of what PVE players complain about. Relequen is not just a PVE set, it is the set for almost all stamina PVE DD builds.

Respectfully, this may be enough reason to change it...

Oh, I would welcome an alternative base set for stamina DDs, just for the sake of variety. But changing it for PVP reasons is silly, especially since so few people use Relequen in PVP

StaticWave

El_Borracho wrote: »

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

This is a perfect example of what PVE players complain about. Relequen is not just a PVE set, it is the set for almost all stamina PVE DD builds. But since it damaged another player in PVP, it gots to go.

Its not Savage Werewolf. Its not the old Ravager. Its not Crimson Twilight. Its not the old Elf Bane/Zaan combo. Its a trials set. Its been out since 2018. Just because a PVE player won a duel wearing it doesn't make it OP.

It ticked 5 times in 1.5 seconds. The set is not working as intended and is the reason I’m making this thread.

M0ntie

NO!
Stop requesting nerfs to PVE gear just because you got killed by it in PVP. It’s hard to get so should be a good set.

StaticWave

Relequen behaves like Savage WW where a light/heavy attack will apply a separate "tick" of damage on top of the DoT. Therefore even if you don't wear any attack speed sets, you can still proc Relequen twice in a second from the tick and from doing a light attack weave. You can see it in the first screenshot of this comment.

This is exactly how Savage WW worked before it got nerfed. The only difference is you need to build stacks with Relequen. The argument that it's cleansable is laughable. A build with Relequen will have at least 10 debuffs on you at all times, making it nearly impossible to cleanse it. Even if they did, it would just get reapplied again and reached full stacks in 5 seconds from consistent light attack weave.

I don't care if it's a proc that ticks once a second. But when it can tick twice a second, then it is borderline one of the strongest procs in the game. It is only a matter of time before people catch up to how this set works and run it on ranged builds.

Dovahmiim

He's actually completely right here, this set is not behaving as intended, based on cmx screenshots.
If you defend it, you are defending a bugged mechanic, and I can guarantee you are defending it because you use it in PvE.
I don't know if the sets behaves like this in PvE too, but at the very least it needs fixing in PvP.

StaticWave

Dovahmiim wrote: »

He's actually completely right here, this set is not behaving as intended, based on cmx screenshots.
If you defend it, you are defending a bugged mechanic, and I can guarantee you are defending it because you use it in PvE.
I don't know if the sets behaves like this in PvE too, but at the very least it needs fixing in PvP.

Thank you, this is what I'm trying to bring up. Based on the description, the set should only tick ONCE every second and deal more damage the more stacks you have. It SHOULD NOT tick from every light/heavy attack application. If that's intended, then it needs to be removed. If it's a bug, then it needs to be fixed.

StaticWave

More examples of Relequen ticking twice in a second:




I had my friend stand still and light attack me with Ice staff. He's in Rallying Cry and Relequen, so no attack speed buffing sets here. Still ticks twice a second from the light attack and the actual DoT.

JerBearESO

Yes relequen is an entire playstyle.... For me, it's mine, I made the playstyle. Wow that's like the moto of this game what a shock I don't use meta builds.....

Rele on my necro allows me to consider blastbones as my spamable while weaving with heavy attacks as needed without actually being a heavy attacks build. Is this overpowered? Not really, it's barely viable to be honest.

Tell you what, first remove all the meta builds that easily drop me to the floor and THEN start looking at rele.

Rhaegar75

I hate OP sets..I truly do but I really struggle to see an issue with releuqen. no way near as oppressive as Savage WW

JerBearESO

StaticWave wrote: »

Dovahmiim wrote: »

He's actually completely right here, this set is not behaving as intended, based on cmx screenshots.
If you defend it, you are defending a bugged mechanic, and I can guarantee you are defending it because you use it in PvE.
I don't know if the sets behaves like this in PvE too, but at the very least it needs fixing in PvP.

Thank you, this is what I'm trying to bring up. Based on the description, the set should only tick ONCE every second and deal more damage the more stacks you have. It SHOULD NOT tick from every light/heavy attack application. If that's intended, then it needs to be removed. If it's a bug, then it needs to be fixed.

This behavior actually was stated somewhere as intended design. I wish I could remember where.... The intention is to reward light attack weaving by allowing for the dot to proc immediately and then right before the use of your next light attack so that proper light attack weaving results in a double proc per second. I think it's meant as a trade off for being cleanseable stack based and non crit.

Notably, this effect is lost at times when using projectiles because of travel times and moving around causing the timeframe to fluctuate. So it is useful mostly for melee builds.

JerBearESO

StaticWave wrote: »

Relequen behaves like Savage WW where a light/heavy attack will apply a separate "tick" of damage on top of the DoT. Therefore even if you don't wear any attack speed sets, you can still proc Relequen twice in a second from the tick and from doing a light attack weave. You can see it in the first screenshot of this comment.

This is exactly how Savage WW worked before it got nerfed. The only difference is you need to build stacks with Relequen. The argument that it's cleansable is laughable. A build with Relequen will have at least 10 debuffs on you at all times, making it nearly impossible to cleanse it. Even if they did, it would just get reapplied again and reached full stacks in 5 seconds from consistent light attack weave.

I don't care if it's a proc that ticks once a second. But when it can tick twice a second, then it is borderline one of the strongest procs in the game. It is only a matter of time before people catch up to how this set works and run it on ranged builds.

Just a note here.

It takes 10 applications to reach max stacks, so 10 seconds when weaving, or 7 seconds when spamming light attacks or heavy attacks. In pvp most will be dodged so enjoy getting max stacks every 15 to 20 seconds and often having those stacks cleansed away at 5 or so stacks. The overall power of the set should be judged at half stacks, not max, because of this.

Also remember the behavior is extremely unreliable on ranged builds, so it would be used on melee builds. Melee builds are usually about burst, not building up pressure over 15 to 20 seconds worth of sustained combat....

xylena_lazarow

Is this set a problem in any form of PvP outside duels? Should nerfs be made on behalf of dueling?

Chilly-McFreeze

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Is this set a problem in any form of PvP outside duels? Should nerfs be made on behalf of dueling?

If you go by the sets tooltip, would you describe it's current behavior as a bug?

TybaltKaine

The problem with this post is not that it is calling for a bug fix, but for a nerf. Those are two very different things. Nerfing the set into the ground doesn't fix the underlying bug. Maybe if you worded things differently there wouldn't be such a knee jerk response.

If the set is behaving inappropriately, fix it by determining the problem. I'd also like to know if this is as much of a problem in general PVP or even Battlegrounds, which I doubt it is. In a duel it is easy to get overwhelmed by something like this, while in group play I doubt it would tickle tbh.

But, as mentioned, there are easy counters for this. Cleansing, Mara's Balm, and dodging come to mind immediately.

StaticWave

JerBearESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Dovahmiim wrote: »

He's actually completely right here, this set is not behaving as intended, based on cmx screenshots.
If you defend it, you are defending a bugged mechanic, and I can guarantee you are defending it because you use it in PvE.
I don't know if the sets behaves like this in PvE too, but at the very least it needs fixing in PvP.

Thank you, this is what I'm trying to bring up. Based on the description, the set should only tick ONCE every second and deal more damage the more stacks you have. It SHOULD NOT tick from every light/heavy attack application. If that's intended, then it needs to be removed. If it's a bug, then it needs to be fixed.

This behavior actually was stated somewhere as intended design. I wish I could remember where.... The intention is to reward light attack weaving by allowing for the dot to proc immediately and then right before the use of your next light attack so that proper light attack weaving results in a double proc per second. I think it's meant as a trade off for being cleanseable stack based and non crit.

Notably, this effect is lost at times when using projectiles because of travel times and moving around causing the timeframe to fluctuate. So it is useful mostly for melee builds.

Again, the argument that it’s cleans-able is laughable. If you fought any pressure build worth any salt, you would know how many debuffs can be applied each second.

The same argument of being cleansable was used to defend Savage WW DoT. Guess what, it doesnt work like that. Good luck trying to cleanse the actual proc when I can apply 5 debuffs with Ele Sus on ice staff, 3 more DoTs with master DW, plus other class DoTs.

Using Mara’s Balm as an argument is also laughable. The set has a cooldown of 30, while it only takes 5s to reach max stacks if you try to proc it fast.

StaticWave

JerBearESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Relequen behaves like Savage WW where a light/heavy attack will apply a separate "tick" of damage on top of the DoT. Therefore even if you don't wear any attack speed sets, you can still proc Relequen twice in a second from the tick and from doing a light attack weave. You can see it in the first screenshot of this comment.

This is exactly how Savage WW worked before it got nerfed. The only difference is you need to build stacks with Relequen. The argument that it's cleansable is laughable. A build with Relequen will have at least 10 debuffs on you at all times, making it nearly impossible to cleanse it. Even if they did, it would just get reapplied again and reached full stacks in 5 seconds from consistent light attack weave.

I don't care if it's a proc that ticks once a second. But when it can tick twice a second, then it is borderline one of the strongest procs in the game. It is only a matter of time before people catch up to how this set works and run it on ranged builds.

Just a note here.

It takes 10 applications to reach max stacks, so 10 seconds when weaving, or 7 seconds when spamming light attacks or heavy attacks. In pvp most will be dodged so enjoy getting max stacks every 15 to 20 seconds and often having those stacks cleansed away at 5 or so stacks. The overall power of the set should be judged at half stacks, not max, because of this.

Also remember the behavior is extremely unreliable on ranged builds, so it would be used on melee builds. Melee builds are usually about burst, not building up pressure over 15 to 20 seconds worth of sustained combat....

Nobody is going to spam rolls to dodge light attacks lol… You’re wasting stam to dodge something that’s essentially free of cost.

At the end of the day, all it takes is for more pressure builds to slot Relequen and make it meta. The only reason people aren’t slotting it is because they don’t know that it can proc twice in a second.

StaticWave

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Is this set a problem in any form of PvP outside duels? Should nerfs be made on behalf of dueling?

I mean I could speak the same about Caluurions, the set that was mostly complained about due to gankers using it, or Overload + Cwep + Elewep used by gankers. I never complained about them, but they still got nerfed didn’t they?

Not everything has to be a problem in every aspect of PvP. As long as it’s a problem in some area, it needs to at least be looked at.

StaticWave

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

I hate OP sets..I truly do but I really struggle to see an issue with releuqen. no way near as oppressive as Savage WW

The issue is it can tick twice in a second. The description does not say that it’s supposed to tick twice.

I am simply pointing out this mechanic, whether bugged or intended, and hope that ZoS consider at least adjusting the set to proc once per second as described.

Anti_Virus

@StaticWave

So you want Relequen nerfed but not sets like way of fire, Maarselok and Master dual wield/Vateashran destro staff?

PhoenixGrey

StaticWave wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

I hate OP sets..I truly do but I really struggle to see an issue with releuqen. no way near as oppressive as Savage WW

The issue is it can tick twice in a second. The description does not say that it’s supposed to tick twice.

I am simply pointing out this mechanic, whether bugged or intended, and hope that ZoS consider at least adjusting the set to proc once per second as described.

Even way of the fire is bugged.

Wear that one along with this, masters dw and maybe a poison and we don’t have to bother about skill, class, race etc

There is no difference between top tier pvp’ers and bottom feeder wearing sets like these anymore. That being said all these fire and forget sets need to be straight up deleted

PhoenixGrey

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Is this set a problem in any form of PvP outside duels? Should nerfs be made on behalf of dueling?

Pvp is flooded by all these fire and forget sets
It’s one of the reasons why everyone has 50k hp in cyrodil

Anti_Virus

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Is this set a problem in any form of PvP outside duels? Should nerfs be made on behalf of dueling?

Pvp is flooded by all these fire and forget sets
It’s one of the reasons why everyone has 50k hp in cyrodil

And soon if nothing is done about these sets you will start seeing 60K plus hp builds. I’ve seen them already on Xbox NA

NordSwordnBoard

"against monsters" - now it's not a nerf for PvE:
Perfected Arms of Relequen
(2 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(5 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina, Your Light and Heavy attacks apply a stack of harmful winds to Monsters for 5 seconds. Harmful winds deal 52 Physical Damage per stack every 1 second. This effect can stack once every half second, up to 10 times and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage.

Is it outside the parameters of the tooltip/intended design? Functioning in a way that has unintended effects? Basically, if the devs think its "out of bounds" then it is. We will see I guess? Minor Slayer doesn't help the case for what this set was intended for. It would be wrong (I'm PvPer) to nerf it in PvE, when it could be adjusted to let PvE keep the set viable.

StaticWave

Anti_Virus wrote: »

@StaticWave

So you want Relequen nerfed but not sets like way of fire, Maarselok and Master dual wield/Vateashran destro staff?

I want them nerfed too. Already discussed how they should be nerfed with other PvPers. I will make a future thread regarding these sets.