PTS Update 38 - Feedback Thread for Classes & Abilities

Ankael07

About Necro;

Can the developers tell us about what the class is supposed to be in pvp so we can tell them where its lacking?

IncultaWolf

Melzo wrote: »

Many players wrote that the necromancer has a lot of problems. You did a good job strengthening the skull, but it's really just a spit in the face that players will turn their backs on. You have broken the most important mechanics of the necromancer and now every necromancer should play like all other classes, only without the stun and adequate damage. In three patches you've nerfed the necromancer so badly that he's almost as bad as it gets. THE NECROMANCER IS ABSOLUTELY USELESS AS ONE AND IN A GROUP, SINCE HE GIVES NOTHING TO HIMSELF AND OTHER PLAYERS. There were many posts about the necromancer, and you only mentioned the sorcerer and the templar. Well damn thanks. Nine months I wrote and got 3 nerfs and a spit in the face from a pathetic unnecessary skull.


Are you specifically ignoring the necromancer?? The necromancer has too little community. Necromancers are much less played as the gameplay is crap. I wrote to increase the damage but you nerfed hot healing and dot damage. I wrote that the necromancer can do nothing but synergy, your answer is synergy nerf. We wrote that the necromancer is not viable. That he has almost nothing to stand out. Your Answer? Strengthening the skull Seriously??

Each player will agree that the necromancer is much worse than the templar and the sorcerer. Many posts about the sorcerer and templar? And there were no posts about necromancers?? What kind of prejudice is this?

At least bring back the synergy. Now nobody enjoys harmony. And the cemetery became useless.

On the last patch, the administrators responded to all classes and ignored absolutely all messages about the necromancer ??


Why??

What is the necromancer good at? Holding block. I can't take this class seriously anymore until it gets major brutality/sorcery and/or major prophecy/savagery built into the class toolkit. Grave grasp is also such an unsatisfying ability to use, should probably just receive a rework at this point, and also make totem stun immediately after cast.

SEINTDARKNES

Sooo they just forget to type warden changes once again right?
Nice joke...

IncultaWolf

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

Vampire Undeath Passive is still over tuned making vampire meta in pvp.

This doesn't get talked about enough unfortunately, it's pretty much mandatory if you want to succeed in pvp. Would be more balanced if they made the passive require you to slot a vampire ability for it to be active.

Lancer1602

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

Sooo they just forget to type warden changes once again right?
Nice joke...

Just give up on warden in PVE. Be healer warden or tank, but Warden DPS is the roleplay character.

Cast_El

I think templar buff are good, I would rather more damage than tankiness. Templar still need burst, but I look forward to try those buffs.

Zalathorm

RE: Templar Solar Barrage
Templar's 5% boost to class specific skills is not enough in a world where:
- Templar’s class skills (jabs) were RECENTLY nerfed in damage, even though they were already underperforming compared to top dps classes. 5% increase to class skills MIGHT have been ok with old jabs
- Major berserk was added to wrecking blow, which would force templars to either not have the major berserk and use jabs, or use wrecking blow and not have the class specific buff.
- Many important skills would be missed (destro ult, shooting star, barbed trap, scalding rune, stampede, carve, etc)
- As the most direct comparable to an underperforming class, nightblades got 10% damage done during their last tune up, and now have the damage boost of incap extended in addition because the 10% to all damage still wasn't enough.
Therefore: 5% is way too low if you keep it class specific.

Auzsi

Can we get some relevant argonian changes please?

TechMaybeHic

Veiled Strike
Concealed Weapon (morph): This morph now grants its damage done bonus for 10 seconds if Major Expedition was active while it was cast, rather than for 5 seconds when Major Expedition ends or was refreshed, to ensure the skill is used actively rather than passively. The damage bonus still operates the same for leaving sneak or invisibility.


How does doubling the duration make this work more actively than passively? Making it require activation while under major expedition does eliminate passively getting it from Path, but trying to keep that going for 10 seconds is a lot more active than just coming out of stealth.

This just tilts away from brawler NBs and favors cloaking even more. I hope that cloak being impacted by detection range doesn't also kill detect pots or we have a major integrity issue here. Probably have, and it's escalating

xDeusEJRx

Thank you so much for increasing the duration on Death Stroke Zenimax, this will finally enable me to deal decent single target damage on the class. Very amazing very good change zenimax, Nightblades were clearly underperforming

master_vanargand

"Concealed Weapon" has "your damage done is increased by 10%" and "increasing your Movement Speed by 15%".
"Surprise Attack" has "the Sundered status effect".
Don't you feel "game balance is bad" comparing these two?

We "Stamina Nightblade" have lost our identity.
Can only "Magicka Nightblade" play DPS?

This is too unfair.

Need move Concealed Weapon's "your damage done is increased by 10%" to Veiled Strike (base skill).
Don't penalize people who like "Stamina Nightblade DPS".

I'm not asking you to do anything difficult.
"Play how you like" requires "game balance".

Comparing "Concealed Weapon" and "Surprise Attack", do they appear to have the same power?
If you don't understand this, then you can't expect anything.
Because that's right, right? What can you expect from someone who can't understand math?

SeaUnicorn

Arcanist abilities seem to have a lot of fancy particle effects and drop frame rates for the players.

Tannus15

Sorcerer changes are basically non entities.

We still have no bar space
Pet are still take up 2 skill slots
Frags still has a cast time
We still don't have major prophecy or savagery and no bar space to slot camo hunter or inner light
No pet sorcs still suck

So it's nice to know that they read the sorc feed back and then decided to add a pair of pointless buffs to a skill no one uses in end game PvE.

The atro buff is nice, the scamp change is a whatever. It still stuns and it'll happen when it happens and we'll all hope that's not when the tank needs to chain something.
Dark deal was almost useful with major berserk but then they chickened out and gave it minor force, so i guess when people are looking at spreadsheets of buffs sorcs will look slightly better but in reality it's the least most impactful buffs you could give.

So thanks for trying i guess?

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

I'll not get started on the empower and Storm Master changes. Both unnecessary changes...


But this I must say: The changes to Templar completely miss the mark. Templars desperately need burst damage and sustained pressure back, not all their power crammed into the execute. Spread it out, please.

And.... above everything I could ask for or hope for in this game.... Please, please revert the horrid, embarrassing jabs animation. Please.

maxjapank

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

And.... above everything I could ask for or hope for in this game.... Please, please revert the horrid, embarrassing jabs animation. Please.

A lot of Templars have been asking for this. Almost a year now.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

maxjapank wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

And.... above everything I could ask for or hope for in this game.... Please, please revert the horrid, embarrassing jabs animation. Please.

A lot of Templars have been asking for this. Almost a year now.

At least acknowledgement would be a start, from the devs.

AndreNoir

master_vanargand wrote: »

We "Stamina Nightblade" have lost our identity.

Identity of what ? Of being able to crit without actually any investments in crit ?

Yamenstein

Melzo wrote: »

Many players wrote that the necromancer has a lot of problems. You did a good job strengthening the skull, but it's really just a spit in the face that players will turn their backs on. You have broken the most important mechanics of the necromancer and now every necromancer should play like all other classes, only without the stun and adequate damage. In three patches you've nerfed the necromancer so badly that he's almost as bad as it gets. THE NECROMANCER IS ABSOLUTELY USELESS AS ONE AND IN A GROUP, SINCE HE GIVES NOTHING TO HIMSELF AND OTHER PLAYERS. There were many posts about the necromancer, and you only mentioned the sorcerer and the templar. Well damn thanks. Nine months I wrote and got 3 nerfs and a spit in the face from a pathetic unnecessary skull.


Are you specifically ignoring the necromancer?? The necromancer has too little community. Necromancers are much less played as the gameplay is crap. I wrote to increase the damage but you nerfed hot healing and dot damage. I wrote that the necromancer can do nothing but synergy, your answer is synergy nerf. We wrote that the necromancer is not viable. That he has almost nothing to stand out. Your Answer? Strengthening the skull Seriously??

Each player will agree that the necromancer is much worse than the templar and the sorcerer. Many posts about the sorcerer and templar? And there were no posts about necromancers?? What kind of prejudice is this?

At least bring back the synergy. Now nobody enjoys harmony. And the cemetery became useless.

On the last patch, the administrators responded to all classes and ignored absolutely all messages about the necromancer ??


Why??

Yeah ZoS has messed up with Necromancer. It's not even about the damage output but how fun the class is to play.
Such a clunky mess.

Hopefully more tweaks come in the upcoming PTS updates but I don't have high hopes.

I am actually looking forward to the new Diablo game. Necro in that looks sick.

Ratzkifal

Templars need a buff to their bread-and-butter skill Puncturing Strikes (and morphs).

• The damage it deals does not feel rewarding enough to use. Prior to Update 35 the higher damage value made the ability fun and rewarding to use in spite of its longer channel time. The new channel duration, having made it easier to light attack weave with the ability, has only increased the need to attack weave when Templars previously had the luxury of not needing to weave at all. As a result Templars have become harder to play, while outputting the same amount of damage. Stamina Templars in particular have suffered as a result of this as they cannot take advantage of the skills that magicka Templars can to the same effect (nor do they want to, as they would otherwise be playing Magicka Templar already). Return the old channel time and damage to this skill, or at the very least, move the 5% class skill damage buff from Solar Flare to a more resource agnostic skill so that Stamina Templars may benefit more easily.

birdik

Please revert concealed weapon changes: it will be super clunky in pve ( in pvp too in some cases ).
As nb main i dont want press it each 10 seconds while i:

Fighting trash mobs
Using bow bow/staff staff ranged build
Spam killer blade/impale during execute
(All least rotation in melee build)

As stam nb i dont have magicka for this too, lol

Ratzkifal

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

Vampire Undeath Passive is still over tuned making vampire meta in pvp.

Yes, but I would not frame it this way. Vampire has only one useful passive and no significant downsides since the removal of Prismatic damage. We don't need a nerf to Undeath. We need a nerf to the downsides of vampirism specific to PvP. For example an extra debuff to healing received as part of vampirism could be enough to get vampires in line without taking power out of Undeath. Vampires want to be viable too. It's only a problem when everybody feels the need to play vampire.

birdik

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Thank you so much for increasing the duration on Death Stroke Zenimax, this will finally enable me to deal decent single target damage on the class. Very amazing very good change zenimax, Nightblades were clearly underperforming

Ye ye bow to pve pleb ( carve stacks on you) with many buffs (balorg 500? ) bravo!

Ratzkifal

Racial Passives:
Bosmer still have not a single bonus to stealth.

• Detection is not stealth. There is nothing to detect in PvE but plenty of enemies to sneak past in both PvE and PvP. Stealth is universal where detection is very limited in its uses. Not to mention how buggy the detection bonus actually is.
• Their lore explicitly mentions how stealthy they are time and time again since TES1. Even the lore of ESO does!
• The original core audience for Bosmer either picked them for looks or for their passives and back then their passives were so bad that stealth was the only reason to be picking them. By taking their stealth away, the original core Bosmer audience has been alienated for years now.

Undo this mistake and do right by 25 years of previously established lore!

This is the prime example of developers not listening to well-reasoned feedback from the community. There was a post with over 190 agrees way back when this change was originally made (in Wrathstone!), wishing their stealth be returned.
Silence your critics already by listening to it better late than never!

xylena_lazarow

Changing DK Elder Dragon to HP regen effectively deletes the passive from PvP. Not that DKs needed a boost or anything, but surely they deserve something less pathetically useless.

I'm not sure why Templar defense was buffed when it's already extremely strong in PvP, and their offense will still lack badly even with the 5% class damage effect.

Ratzkifal

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Changing DK Elder Dragon to HP regen effectively deletes the passive from PvP. Not that DKs needed a boost or anything, but surely they deserve something less pathetically useless.

I'm not sure why Templar defense was buffed when it's already extremely strong in PvP, and their offense will still lack badly even with the 5% class damage effect.

It's another example of ZOS' trademark flip-flop changes. Why did they bother adding the unique 2m bonus to melee range when they are now just going to unceremoniously remove it? Did the developers who added those 2m range leave the company? Why the 180°? It hardly improved the passive to do so, so what purpose did that serve? It makes no sense and sadly this is nothing new. Just wait a couple of updates and they will have completely changed their mind again.

Blackbird_V

Whatever has been done to Templar Jabs animation (yet again)... It feels even worse now. Please, please please revert the U35 changes, i dont care if you nerf damage slightly more, but please this really is not bearable, and jabs are already weaker than Wrecking Blow and Blazing Spear spamming over jabs.

The new feel to it really is not good at all. Please, I am literally begging you now please revert this. Please.

universal_wrath

Sorcerers have been asking for the same specific changes in 5 years and yet still being ignored. To refresh zenimax memory:

1- instant burst heal
2- instant frags
3- one bar pets
4- scale excute mages wrath or make it spammable.
5- bound armament rework.
6- movable air atronach ultimate.
7- atronached inhert major berserk buff instead of synrgy.
8- lighting splash added effect.
9- power surge no cooldown.

Maybe there are more but I believe these are most important and zenimax never bothered to even talk about these point.

nokturnihs

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

Empower change:
"While we're happy to see these builds being ran, we're seeing these builds inch a little too close to some of the high end builds with how much more simplified they are, "

Why nerf all heavy attack builds because of the one bar oakensoul HA build?
How about increasing the duration of empower from skills?
How about making bar swap cleaner on HA builds? H
How about removing the extra skill cast time on HA weaving so that using non-long DOT skills isn't a damage loss?
How about shortening the duration of HAs to a flat 2s so that it lines up better with skills?

All of the above would make 2 bar HA builds viable and encourage people to do more complex combat rotations while still using HA playstyle if that is what they enjoy.

Then you can have the simple one bar oakensoul setup at your new nerfed values,
A more complex HA build meaningfully above the current oakensorc.
And both still noticeably below high end LA builds (which they currently are).

How about nerf high end LA builds.
Why not reduce the global cooldown to the same time as an LA so it becomes a choice between using a skill or making an attack (to proc sets, skills, etc)?

Why does every MMO dev seem to hate casual/accessibility builds and pushing whatever narrative the elite top-end are whining about between updates?

Big takeaways from the path notes:
ZOS: ALL the sweaty players hold their nose up at oaken builds, let's stop their whining and make higher DPS something for those who exclusively like sweating. They didn't want any of the rest of us in their trials anyway...
Also ZOS:: Plaguebreak - same problem as oaken soul. We don't want you rushing through trash packs in normal dungeons. Please stop. (PS- "Over performing against trash isn't really a high bar)
Also ZOS: We've changed some PVP sets to only work in PvP but don't worry, trial, overland and dungeon sets that over perform in BG or PvP will continue to function in the same manner. It was just about you spending more time grinding content to increase the likelihood of you buying crowns.
ZOS on master stations - the gold sink you 1% top earners have been whining about - here's an all in one station. Enjoy.

Excited for arcanist. Development philosophy is still garbage.

Bodycounter

The changes to the Elder Dragon passive are actual garbage. This passive has been a staple and was very unique to the Dragonknight class for many years and you just deleted the whole concept like that? At least compensate (not buff, they are strong enough) them in a meaningful way.

Cloudrest

Templar U38 Feedback

For the most part, I'll be echoing what other Templar players have been saying for the past several months. The class desperately needs power shifted away from Radiant Oppression and instead funneled into Backlash + Morphs and Puncturing Strikes + morphs. The change to Rune Focus + Morphs is an interesting change and something that I can appreciate, but the 5% increased damage done to class abilities attached to Solar Barrage misses the mark entirely to address the problems with Templar in PvP.

Backlash

Backlash and morphs still lack burst damage in a PvP setting when Battle Spirit is applied, despite having similar damage in PvE before the changes made to the skill's functionality. Is this a bug, where Battle Spirit is disproportionally affecting the final 'burst' of damage from the skill, or is this intended functionality? It would be nice for the developers to communicate about this skill, as the intent was originally quoted to be during U36 Firesong,

The final damage deals approximately 10% more damage than the initial hit at base and increases up to an additional 200% to reach similar values of power seen before.

"Similar values of power seen before." Backlash (and morphs) function properly in PvE and reaches similar values of power seen before, but it does not reach anywhere close to similar values of power seen before in PvP. An ability that should be hitting for 8-14k damage is hitting for 3-4k damage. Currently, Templar has no form of burst damage, something that is incredibly important in PvP. Either Backlash + morphs have a bugged interaction with Battle Spirit, or the ability desperately needs some power funneled back into it, and it needs looking into.

Puncturing Strikes

Puncturing Strikes and morphs are going to suffer even more than they already have due to the release of Arcanist. Major Evasion is already a staple in Cyrodiil in the current meta, meaning any damage from the already-lackluster morphs of Strikes/Sweeps/Jabs is mitigated by a flat 20% value. With Minor Evasion being readily available from Arcanist, that's another 10% free mitigation against Templar's main spammable.

Puncturing Strikes and morphs were already changed drastically with the release of U35 Lost Depths. They lost an entire tick of damage with the remaining 3 ticks being nerfed by a further 21%.

This ability and its morphs now hit 3 times over a channel time of 800ms, rather than 4 times over 1 second.

Reduced the overall damage of the primary attack by approximately 21% since this ability no longer incurs a DPS loss while weaving within the 1 second global cooldown window.

Unfortunately, the addition of a light attack does not make up for the loss of an entire tick of damage from the ability, especially when the remaining 3 have been nerfed by 21% and are so heavily impacted by Major and Minor Evasion. It's a very real possibility that with U38 Necrom, Templar's already lackluster spammable is going to be doing 30% less damage in PvP outright due to Major + Minor evasion on players.

Along with the controversial changes to the animation (ontop of the issues of Evasion), I think Puncturing Strikes and morphs need to be re-examined. Ideally, I would love to see the animation reverted entirely, the lost tick of damage being re-added, and the ability functioning similarly to Dual Wield's Flurry in being a single-target spammable that hits for multiple times over .8s whilst keeping the damage of the first 3 ticks as it is currently, but with the last tick being an AOE strike that hits harder than the previous 3. Either that, or make Puncturing Strikes + morphs unaffected by Evasion.

Something desperately needs to change, as Templar isn't in a good spot at the moment (along with Necromancer) and they both sorely need some love. Unfortunately, the changes on the PTS don't do anything to address the actual issues with either class. Please listen to the community.