So when can small family/friends-only guilds sell and get guild bank storage?

E_V_IX_EN

Short lazy answer. Never.

Slighty processed thought consideration answer. (No-one has posted a Guild Bank 'spaces' #no. or Guild Store 'spaces' #no. so no-one knows what they are missing yet.)
Of your 1 of 35 choices of family... Of your 1 of 1x5x7x8=choices of Guild Members ... wait..280 choices of 1 Guild Stores.. and you need 50 Members..and you have 280 Members..?? Can you get together 14,000 Members ? Do you need 14,000 x 'spaces'=advertising 'spaces' ?

((edit: I've had a cuppa to think this over (Parent to Parent)) When can I have a Ferrari to store My Ferrari Garage in while I drove in The Australian Muster with my Babes))

Short lazy answer. Never.

Nicolyne

I play with my dad and his friend, so its just the 3 of us. We made a guild and while we don't care much for the store we would love to have guild storage! I don't see us ever having 10 members though. Oh well.

ZurinArctus

I was wondering about this as well ...

Brother and I ended up buying additional accounts so we could meet the 10 member limit for guild bank. It's so much easier to have that shared stash.

It's a ploy to get more money!

Lalai

Gonna ask again in hopes I will get an answer. Can anyone please explain to me why, with the current system, a guild with 7 close-knit people in it would want a Guild Store (which will only allow them to sell items to the other 6 folks in their guild). I get the Guild Bank thing and all.. but having a lot of trouble understanding the need for the Store given how it currently works. Perhaps it's just because I typically give items away to my friends free of charge?

nudel

Auction Houses vs. Guild Stores has been discussed ad nauseum. Guild Stores create nice little micro-economies with inter-guild trading happening in Cyrodiil. This is good as it prevents 1% of sellers dominating the market and setting prices which everyone must then adhere to in order to move their items at all. Rather than having one giant Stock Exchange which can be manipulated, smaller guild stores offer community and encourage fair prices. You can deny it all you want, but at the end of the day Auction Houses amount to little more than selling your wares to an NPC for slightly more gold. You cannot set your own prices and you cannot trade goods--as in I have Racial Motif: Orc. anyone have any others for trade.

If you're a small time trader, then you'll have to go the door-to-door salesman route, which can be rewarding as it completely eliminates the 25% store cut and the 10% mail cut. But has the obvious drawbacks of chat spam leading to being ignored and time spent spamming chat. You can also still buy from guild which you do not belong to if they have captured and claimed a keep in Cyrodiil.

It's not without its flaws, but overall I think it's far better than the alternative AH. Don't hate because it's simply not what you're used to having.

SilverSage

Big guilds are new to the typical Elder Scrolls player... these Elder Scroll games are made for mostly solo creative critical thinkers... not just a few on top of the heap of sheeple followers... if you like that, then it is set-up like that now... but i need my own guild... i dont follow.

Would seem to me after skimming the content in the post... is that general consensus is i'm paying for this game and i'm not getting full content and being disenfranchised... I think... anyone... should have a guild bank and allow how many or whoever they want ... even if it is just one friend...that simple.

I bought all content... $79.00 thank you... plus subscription.

nerevarine1138

SilverSage wrote: »

Big guilds are new to the typical Elder Scrolls player... these Elder Scroll games are made for mostly solo creative critical thinkers... not just a few on top of the heap of sheeple followers... if you like that, then it is set-up like that now... but i need my own guild... i dont follow.

Would seem to me after skimming the content in the post... is that general consensus is i'm paying for this game and i'm not getting full content and being disenfranchised... I think... anyone... should have a guild bank and allow how many or whoever they want ... even if it is just one friend...that simple.

I bought all content... $79.00 thank you... plus subscription.

Ignoring your use of the word "sheeple" (by the way, that's an excellent way to make sure no one listens to you), why do you need a guild bank if you're playing alone? You can always create mule alts if you need that much inventory space, but guild banks are meant to be communal. And you definitely don't need the store.

You aren't being denied access to content any more than requiring you to group up for instanced dungeons is denying you access to content.

SilverSage

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

SilverSage wrote: »

Big guilds are new to the typical Elder Scrolls player... these Elder Scroll games are made for mostly solo creative critical thinkers... not just a few on top of the heap of sheeple followers... if you like that, then it is set-up like that now... but i need my own guild... i dont follow.

Would seem to me after skimming the content in the post... is that general consensus is i'm paying for this game and i'm not getting full content and being disenfranchised... I think... anyone... should have a guild bank and allow how many or whoever they want ... even if it is just one friend...that simple.

I bought all content... $79.00 thank you... plus subscription.

Ignoring your use of the word "sheeple" (by the way, that's an excellent way to make sure no one listens to you), why do you need a guild bank if you're playing alone? You can always create mule alts if you need that much inventory space, but guild banks are meant to be communal. And you definitely don't need the store.

You aren't being denied access to content any more than requiring you to group up for instanced dungeons is denying you access to content.

This is not intend for your argument... this is more intend to the development team... so they will see all of the folks who want this... I don't participate in troll and responses.

Lalai

SilverSage wrote: »

Big guilds are new to the typical Elder Scrolls player... these Elder Scroll games are made for mostly solo creative critical thinkers... not just a few on top of the heap of sheeple followers... if you like that, then it is set-up like that now... but i need my own guild... i dont follow.

Would seem to me after skimming the content in the post... is that general consensus is i'm paying for this game and i'm not getting full content and being disenfranchised... I think... anyone... should have a guild bank and allow how many or whoever they want ... even if it is just one friend...that simple.

I bought all content... $79.00 thank you... plus subscription.

Please explain to me why a guild with 2-7 people in it needs access to a guild store that would only allow them to sell things to members of the same guild.

Yes, you paid $79.00 for all the content, plus subscription. That does not mean all the content with no barriers to access what so ever, though. For gear, the barrier is defeating mobs, crafting, doing something to get it and be able to equip it. To get access to certain abilities you need to level and invest skill points. To get access to the guild store you need to have a good chunk of members.

I've yet to see someone answer why they'd need access to the guild store with so few members without the argument boiling down to something like "well we aren't really going to use it, but I don't like the big group having access to something I don't.. even if it's useless to me."

If that's your argument and such then fine. I disagree with server resources being dedicated to guild stores which are going to go completely unused because the guild is small enough, and close enough, not to even sell things to each other.

nudel

If you make a post on a forum asking the development team to change things, expect others to disagree with you. Your opinion is not the only one that matters and disagreement can happen without it being an argument or trolling. If you don't want to see others disagree with your ideas, submit them privately via the in-game feedback tab. Otherwise, accept that this is a public forum and people are allowed to differ from you.

Greydog

nudel wrote: »

Greydog wrote: »

Um ..there is no trade feature for sales. Just the guild stores and spamming.

agree +1

I'm sorry sir but you are wrong. Walk up to a person. Press F to interact. Direct your mouse to the lower left to 'Trade'. Now you can each drop in items/ gold and confirm. No store cut/ no mail cut.

If you find that inconvenient, you can send a trade via mail. Use COD to ensure payment for items.

but you most likely had to spam to get to that point. (I was being facetious)

It really doesn't matter how low you drop the number to access the store. You are still only able to sell to those few in the guild. There is a much greater market out there ..that's what I want access to.

Cyrodiil keeps are nice but even that is only a small portion of the market.

omimace

AH's in every mmo i have played have ruined the economy, this a good idea but would be better returning to personal stores of old, i miss then!!

Khandi

Gunner59 wrote: »

I have never liked guilds and the guild mentality. I prefer to solo and interact one on one, but I also need a place to buy and sell gear...no AH for soloists is a deal breaker for me.

It is oh so close to being a deal breaker for me as well.

I will not join a guild just to sell things. I personally think the guild/AH/Trade is a stupid idea. It pigeon holes you into playing "their" way.

Between not being able to sell items easily and all the irksome random issues that force you to play their way ESO is rapidly becoming my play-it-until-something-else-comes-along game.

I know...too bad for me right? Well, I am obviously not the only one that feels like this and as more people sigh up and realize that simple functionality has been over-looked they will be right behind me, not letting the door hit us in the ass.

Aserak

One of the guilds I am in is one I created for my RL friends and our sons. There are only about 7 of us. Not having access to a shared bank to easily give things to help each other out is ridiculous. I understand the game designers wont want it to be used for one person to create a guild just to have a second bank for themselves, but this is over reaching that goal. Change this please.

Greydog

Lalai wrote: »

Gonna ask again in hopes I will get an answer. Can anyone please explain to me why, with the current system, a guild with 7 close-knit people in it would want a Guild Store (which will only allow them to sell items to the other 6 folks in their guild). I get the Guild Bank thing and all.. but having a lot of trouble understanding the need for the Store given how it currently works. Perhaps it's just because I typically give items away to my friends free of charge?

You're missing the underlying argument. The guild store system is needlessly restrictive and somewhat punitive to those who would rather not "guild up".

Zen should leave it as is and those of us who don't like it can leave. That seems to be the only option given here ..no middle ground.

Fine ..have fun being lonely till it becomes f2p

Lalai

Greydog wrote: »

You're missing the underlying argument. The guild store system is needlessly restrictive and somewhat punitive to those who would rather not "guild up".

Zen should leave it as is and those of us who don't like it can leave. That seems to be the only option given here ..no middle ground.

Fine ..have fun being lonely till it becomes f2p

Oh well I do apologize, I was just going by what the OP actually posted (that the game is punishing them for having a smaller guild by not giving them access to the guild store), and by what several others in the thread have posted. I thought the threads purpose was to argue that small family guilds should have access to the guild store and guild bank, not to argue about an overhaul of the entire store system.

Personally, I'm willing to give their system a chance. It is far too early to tell how good or bad the current setup is going to be end game.

Yes there are less things to see on the store itself as you aren't accessing the entire server, yeah you're probably going to see more spam in zone chat (but after initial launch I tend to turn that off anyway as people typically no longer ask for help very often), however right now what I'm seeing is active guilds designed around trading. I'm in three trading guilds.. and a forth role playing guild. The trading guilds are not at all spamming my chat, even though I have chat showing for each on my main window. If they do I have a separate window for each guild so I can filter stuff out. Seeing unwanted information from them is not an issue.

RMTers are going to have limited access to the economy as a whole. People aren't going to be able to corner market places and be a jerk with inflation without risking a kick from a guild. Overall people have been much more active with trading around materials in the guilds I'm in. I like it so far, people are being social. I'm certainly not going to cry dooms day just because ESO is trying something new.

Edited to add: Just to be clear, I am not against the idea of an AH. I wouldn't cry if one were implemented.. I just kind of prefer the system in place at this point in time for the above reasons. A trade channel, as @Korah_Eaglecry below me pointed out would actually serve very well with the current setup, and I completely agree that it should be in the game.

Korah_Eaglecry

Khandi wrote: »

Gunner59 wrote: »

I have never liked guilds and the guild mentality. I prefer to solo and interact one on one, but I also need a place to buy and sell gear...no AH for soloists is a deal breaker for me.

It is oh so close to being a deal breaker for me as well.

I will not join a guild just to sell things. I personally think the guild/AH/Trade is a stupid idea. It pigeon holes you into playing "their" way.

Between not being able to sell items easily and all the irksome random issues that force you to play their way ESO is rapidly becoming my play-it-until-something-else-comes-along game.

I know...too bad for me right? Well, I am obviously not the only one that feels like this and as more people sigh up and realize that simple functionality has been over-looked they will be right behind me, not letting the door hit us in the ass.

You do understand the difference between a Beta Testing Community asking for Auction Houses and A Subbed Community asking for Auction Houses right?

1 can voice their opinions til theyre blue in the face but it doesnt mean Zenimax has to do anything about it. The latter on the other hand. Is essential to the life of the game. And if they leave. The game risks being shutdown if it cant go F2P quick enough.

Im assuming the reasons theyve avoided the Auction Houses is because of numerous reasons. From preventing inflation and re-sellers hijacking the AH to the sheer size of the server population that could possibly break the AH.

Now I think the population issue is more of a 'better safe then sorry'. As this isnt the only MMO out there with a MegaServer and they fully support functional AHs.

But I personally dont see the Guild Stores as that big of an issue. But I can understand where people are coming from and Id like to see a Trade Channel dedicated to providing an alternative to the Trade Guild options.

Greydog

Lalai wrote: »

Oh well I do apologize, I was just going by what the OP actually posted (that the game is punishing them for having a smaller guild by not giving them access to the guild store), and by what several others in the thread have posted. I thought the threads purpose was to argue that small family guilds should have access to the guild store and guild bank, not to argue about an overhaul of the entire store system.

Personally, I'm willing to give their system a chance. It is far too early to tell how good or bad the current setup is going to be end game.

Yes there are less things to see on the store itself as you aren't accessing the entire server, yeah you're probably going to see more spam in zone chat (but after initial launch I tend to turn that off anyway as people typically no longer ask for help very often), however right now what I'm seeing is active guilds designed around trading. I'm in three trading guilds.. and a forth role playing guild. The trading guilds are not at all spamming my chat, even though I have chat showing for each on my main window. If they do I have a separate window for each guild so I can filter stuff out. Seeing unwanted information from them is not an issue.

RMTers are going to have limited access to the economy as a whole. People aren't going to be able to corner market places and be a jerk with inflation without risking a kick from a guild. Overall people have been much more active with trading around materials in the guilds I'm in. I like it so far, people are being social. I'm certainly not going to cry dooms day just because ESO is trying something new.

Edited to add: Just to be clear, I am not against the idea of an AH. I wouldn't cry if one were implemented.. I just kind of prefer the system in place at this point in time for the above reasons. A trade channel, as @Korah_Eaglecry below me pointed out would actually serve very well with the current setup, and I completely agree that it should be in the game.

No one has asked for a "complete overhaul" nor are we looking for a global AH or any other radical change. Just a little middle ground.

I don't necessarily hate the guild features, I just feel they make things too fragmented, inconvenient, restrictive and yes ..almost punitive.

If you've read the thread you'll see my second post on pg 2 offers a suggestion that could make us both happy. Of course it would also require a reduction in the guild requirements that the Op is requesting.

If you haven't read the whole thread then I can see where you may jump to the conclusion that we are.

As a side note, the only meaningful change I'd like to see in guilds would be having my alts be recognized as individuals.

*edit* A trade channel would still require me to sit for hours spamming when I could be out adventuring.

Fiedi

I thought about this before and what i think would be just great:
Little shopping carts for single player as in other games like ragnarok online.
A player himself could put up a sign on the side of the road, put some of their wares on dislplay with a fixed price or maybe even request some items and offer gold for it.
Would be just awesome if you wanna go afk for 5 min too ;-)
And i just would feel great to be the little travelling merchant with his few but delicate wares ^^

Lalai

Greydog wrote: »

No one has asked for a "complete overhaul" nor are we looking for a global AH or any other radical change. Just a little middle ground.

I don't necessarily hate the guild features, I just feel they make things too fragmented, inconvenient, restrictive and yes ..almost punitive.

If you've read the thread you'll see my second post on pg 2 offers a suggestion that could make us both happy. Of course it would also require a reduction in the guild requirements that the Op is requesting.

If you haven't read the whole thread then I can see where you may jump to the conclusion that we are.

As a side note, the only meaningful change I'd like to see in guilds would be having my alts be recognized as individuals.

*edit* A trade channel would still require me to sit for hours spamming when I could be out adventuring.

That's just it though... changing the system to involve other guilds and players outside of guilds could very well be a complete overhaul from a programming standpoint. The thing you suggested on page 2 very much is an entirely different system from what we have available. I am also not a fan of personal markets. Usually they result in either way too much crowding, or if space is limited, preventing a lot of people from selling (which is essentially what already happens with guild stores in Cyrodiil.. you don't even have to PvP, just have to be there at the right time to claim the keep). If they are going to go that route an Auction House would be much preferred.

I have read the entire thread. Most people are using it to jump into a conversation about how they think the guild store system should be changed when the original topic, and the original post, quite obviously are just about giving smaller guilds the ability to access the guild store. The original topic, and original post, is what I'm having trouble comprehending as a necessity. The rest of it is just a difference of opinions in what we prefer to do trading-wise combined with a willingness from myself to give the new system a chance before I claim it's going to throw the game into a F2P nightmare.

Waylon

Would ESO and the ESO membership consider the creation of a "Household"? Unlike a Guild it is smaller in size, say 0-10 accounts, and they have a Guild Bank and a tabard, but not the store. Seems to be a fair compromise to me. I could see how the role-players could benefit from it and it could help contribute to the emersion effect. Role-players, friends and real family members could create a virtual online family. What doe you all think?

S1D3FX

Lalai wrote: »

Greydog wrote: »

No one has asked for a "complete overhaul" nor are we looking for a global AH or any other radical change. Just a little middle ground.

I don't necessarily hate the guild features, I just feel they make things too fragmented, inconvenient, restrictive and yes ..almost punitive.

If you've read the thread you'll see my second post on pg 2 offers a suggestion that could make us both happy. Of course it would also require a reduction in the guild requirements that the Op is requesting.

If you haven't read the whole thread then I can see where you may jump to the conclusion that we are.

As a side note, the only meaningful change I'd like to see in guilds would be having my alts be recognized as individuals.

*edit* A trade channel would still require me to sit for hours spamming when I could be out adventuring.

The original topic, and original post, is what I'm having trouble comprehending as a necessity. The rest of it is just a difference of opinions in what we prefer to do trading-wise combined with a willingness from myself to give the new system a chance before I claim it's going to throw the game into a F2P nightmare.

What are you having a hard time comprehending? It's an obvious advantage to be part of a large guild in terms of monetary leverage. Why are they trying to push such emphasis on HUGE (relative, I realize) groups of players? /pause for obligatory "zomg-its-an-MMO-n00b comment".

I'm in the same boat as the OP. Small group of family and friends that I want to play with. Honestly, I could enjoy ESO in its entirety without ever socially interacting with another human player, but I understand that it's just part of the game and will be necessary at times. I just don't agree with the devs basically saying "Oh, you want to be anti social? sucks for you!" Give me the same capitalistic power as someone in a large guild!

/steps down from soapbox

nerevarine1138

Since capitalism was brought up:

Do mom-and-pop grocery stores have the same capital power as a massive chain?

Lalai

S1D3FX wrote: »

What are you having a hard time comprehending? It's an obvious advantage to be part of a large guild in terms of monetary leverage. Why are they trying to push such emphasis on HUGE (relative, I realize) groups of players? /pause for obligatory "zomg-its-an-MMO-n00b comment".

I'm in the same boat as the OP. Small group of family and friends that I want to play with. Honestly, I could enjoy ESO in its entirety without ever socially interacting with another human player, but I understand that it's just part of the game and will be necessary at times. I just don't agree with the devs basically saying "Oh, you want to be anti social? sucks for you!" Give me the same capitalistic power as someone in a large guild!

/steps down from soapbox

I don't see what giving guild store access to a small guild will accomplish, which is what the OP is asking for. They aren't asking for a change to the way the system works, they want access to a guild store function for their small guild. It's not going to give you a market to sell to, it's just going to allow you to sell to individuals in your own guild who you have already proclaimed you are very close to. Anything that involves changing the way the system works at present falls into a difference of opinion on how things "need" or should work (like allowing other guilds to sell to each other outside of Cyrodiil, setting up stalls, or an Auction House).

Again, I don't understand why, with the current system, small guilds would need access to the guild store specifically.

I get why you may want an AH and the like. I don't necessarily understand why you can't treat a trading guild as an AH by joining, disabling chat, and only using the guild store (which in no way requires you to be social), but that is your choice. That's the difference of opinion part.

Edited to add: As I said earlier. I am not -against- the idea of an AH being added either. I think both systems have pros and cons, and I'm just willing to see how our current system actually does before crying it will be the downfall of the game.

SirLee

Even the largest of trade guilds does not come close to giving a crafter access to enough buyers. 499 other players is not enough to support a robust and thriving economy.

All the lack of an Auction House/Bazaar is going to do, is fill up the chat channels with WTS/WTB/WTT spam.

Zyhlaari

I'll admit I skipped a few pages of this thread, but I'll throw in my 2c anyway. I understand not wanting to implement a large scale AH on a mega server, and the economic difficulties that come from that (I've been through times where the economy was controlled by gold sellers). And guild to guild trading and the guild stores might be a good idea to combat this - but I do feel that there needs to be some way of people to sell outside of that, and outside of chat spamming willy nilly. I also don't think lowering the guild store requirement will be very useful to the small guilds either (lowering the bank threshold, or giving the option to purchase it with smaller numbers for more gold or something I think should be available but that's a whole 'nother topic)

Ignoring the "if you want it like this game go play that game" I think having a 'bazaar' option like FFXI or as Fiedi mentioned a cart system like Ragnarok might work. You can set the price on something you carry in your inventory, other players can see you have something for sale, and if they like the price they can purchase it from you directly. It would give the little guys some way to sell things (at the expense of their inventory space to make guild stores still a good option if you have a lot of stuff). Against this is the need for some extra programming.

Other people have mentioned having an area where you can go and sell, and that would work well with both those options. It may also naturally develop this way anyway given time, and when people have something they want to sell or buy they'll go there and shout. If nothing changes dev side, I see this as being the most likely outcome, the "Unofficial Bazaar". Trade channel would work wonders for that too I guess.

Sorry for the TL;DR - Maybe we should wait for the current system to mature and see where it goes.

Korah_Eaglecry

SirLee wrote: »

Even the largest of trade guilds does not come close to giving a crafter access to enough buyers. 499 other players is not enough to support a robust and thriving economy.

All the lack of an Auction House/Bazaar is going to do, is fill up the chat channels with WTS/WTB/WTT spam.

Actually what will eventually happen with these Trade Guilds. Are certain people in the Guilds will more then likely join numerous Trade Guilds and move goods from one Guild to the other. These will be the same people that would typically act as Re-sellers in other games with AHs.

The only two things that will matter any in these Trade Guilds are extremely rare/legendary items and mats.

SirLee

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

SirLee wrote: »

Even the largest of trade guilds does not come close to giving a crafter access to enough buyers. 499 other players is not enough to support a robust and thriving economy.

All the lack of an Auction House/Bazaar is going to do, is fill up the chat channels with WTS/WTB/WTT spam.

Actually what will eventually happen with these Trade Guilds. Are certain people in the Guilds will more then likely join numerous Trade Guilds and move goods from one Guild to the other. These will be the same people that would typically act as Re-sellers in other games with AHs.

The only two things that will matter any in these Trade Guilds are extremely rare/legendary items and mats.

Which will still make it come down to the other 90% of us spaming chat.

Ashenar

I don't mind being in a smaller guild with no store. A small number of people can trade person to person.
I do think that smaller guilds should be allowed some shared storage. Mailing and in person sharing of items is a pain. Having a shared location for crafting mats in a smaller guild is also really helpful.
The full 500 slots isn't really needed, just something to simplify the things that take away from play time.... spending 10 minutes standing around swapping crafting mats and crafted items isn't fun for any of the people involved.

kabuehringb14_ESO

I agree as well. My family and I have played MMO's together since WoW and have always had one small guild between us all that was for the sole purpose of trading and sharing our supplies. We never usually number more than four or five and with everything being counted by account and not character it seems ridiculous to us to have a requirement of ten people before we are allowed to access the guild bank. We don't' want nor need to access the guild store, so that can remain out of our reach, but when you are trading more than five items (much more) every single day between four or five different people and characters, a bank is a much more easier and convenient approach then having to run around, meet up and do multiple trade screens.

And the fact that we can join up to five guilds makes this ten people requirement seem even more ridiculous to me. I mean, if you join a guild of 50+ people for the store then why would you even share something if you could make a prophet off it?