Please STOP pushing threads into "Players helping Players" section

Northwold

wilykcat wrote: »

Soraka wrote: »

I feel like there's a lot more redundant threads now over the same topics.

If your posts gets moved so what. The forums are meant to be organized so people can easily find stuff

Well there's a whole thread on so what and how easily people can find stuff. You're posting in it.

wilykcat

This whole discussion about [snip] why their post got moved [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Varana

wilykcat wrote: »

Soraka wrote: »

I feel like there's a lot more redundant threads now over the same topics.

I agree. These kinds of threads complaining about almost non-existing issues are ridiculous.

If your posts gets moved so what. The forums are meant to be organized so people can easily find stuff

They may be meant to do that, but as we all know, good intentions are the pavement on the way to Oblivion.

The feedback in this thread makes it really clear that whatever it was meant to do, the reality is that the forum organisation is quite effective in hiding stuff from people.

SilverBride

This fun thread was just moved from General to Community Creations. I don't consider showing screenshots of our Arcanists to be creations and now this thread will die. PLEASE move this back so we can continue to enjoy each other's new characters.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/635254/share-your-acanist/p1

amapola76

freespirit wrote: »

Do the moderators have quota's they must achieve?

Or a salary they are trying to justify, perhaps.

Lumenn

What really gets me is seeing @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_Kevin interact with a thread("good job!" "These are great!" Or maybe a "we're looking into that") and it isn't an issue where it's at until some indefinite time later for some unknown reason with or without a possible stretch. I'd almost say AI but I doubt AI would leave posts for days/weeks and then move them. @ZOS_Kevin it's 10 pages here so far, can we get some feedback on anything that's been addressed here or has this pretty much just run it's course? Even if it's "internal restructuring" or "expanded training opportunities" it would be nice to hear SOMETHING at this point. As always thank you for your time.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After removing some unnecessary back and forth from this thread, we would like everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, civil, and constructive.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

wilykcat

@ZOS_Hadeostry

I'm sorry

SilverBride

Please consolidate the excessive number of forums into a reasonable number of categories. Players will be more likely to use these other forums if they actually stood out rather than being one of 36.

Davvy123

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

...
But since the conversation was started here, we'll ask some starting questions.

• How do you use the forums currently? Are you going to one specific category or do you visit multiple?
• What are your most viewed sections of the forum?
• Do you think the forums have too many categories?
• Do you use the navigation tabs at the top? (Categories, Dev Tracker, Recent, Unanswered, Participated)

1. I mostly come to General Discussion. Every so often to Players helping Players - **** often, not always, but often to post a problem I've encountered and need help on - therefore I don't typically get to help other players. It would be better if general help questions are left in GD, as OP has requested.
2. After GD, I occasionally visit Dev Tracker, Crafting, and again, Players helping Players.
3. No, the Categories are fine, with the caveat as expressed in 1 above.
4. Yes, I use the top level Tabs, maybe once or twice a week, whereas I have GD bookmarked and visit it several times each day.

Destai

Lumenn wrote: »

What really gets me is seeing @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_Kevin interact with a thread("good job!" "These are great!" Or maybe a "we're looking into that") and it isn't an issue where it's at until some indefinite time later for some unknown reason with or without a possible stretch. I'd almost say AI but I doubt AI would leave posts for days/weeks and then move them. @ZOS_Kevin it's 10 pages here so far, can we get some feedback on anything that's been addressed here or has this pretty much just run it's course? Even if it's "internal restructuring" or "expanded training opportunities" it would be nice to hear SOMETHING at this point. As always thank you for your time.

@ZOS_Kevin I'd like to echo this point. This thread is specifically about how forums are managed, so the impression is it's something you can be pretty active in. It's nice that you post community links and whatever other things you're directed to, but it's honestly feeling like the engagement isn't the top priority. There are times where it's there, others where it's not.

It happened with the Q&A, it's happened with a few PVP threads, it's happened with the crown crate thread, and bugs I've submitted. It gets me (and probably others too) that we can see the posts mentioned above, we can get loads of moderation, but we can't get follow up on discussions and questions that you were once a part of. I've seen this with the other CMs too, so I'm assuming it's a culture thing at ZOS. At the end of the day, I wish engagement was as visible and proactive as some of the other forms of communication we see from you and your team.

I get that you're probably bouncing from thing to thing, but it's hard to understand why something can't be revisited many weeks later.

VaranisArano

SilverBride wrote: »

This fun thread was just moved from General to Community Creations. I don't consider showing screenshots of our Arcanists to be creations and now this thread will die. PLEASE move this back so we can continue to enjoy each other's new characters.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/635254/share-your-acanist/p1

Just wanted to follow up on this one after roughly one week.

45 comments before moving -> Moved to Community Creations ->7 comments afterwards

From its creation on June 6th to the of the evening of June 9th after it was moved (and I noticed it), it had 2.2k views. A week later in Community Creations, it has 2.6k views.

Now, its entirely possible that most people who wanted to share their Arcanists did so in the first three days, and we'll have a large influx of Console players posting their pictures when Necrom launches. Threads that aren't kept active, die.

Or...perhaps moving the thread to Community Creations did exactly what you predicted.

birdmann1230

I didn’t know there were tabs like Dev Tracker since I only access this on mobile. Maybe updating the mobile page would be a good start.

I also have had threads moved to the PHP thread that didn’t make sense to me. People get help in the other threads with questions I don’t see a need to redirect to a category that isn’t as used.

SedoUmbra

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

[1] How do you use the forums currently? Are you going to one specific category or do you visit multiple? [2] What are your most viewed sections of the forum? [3] Do you think the forums have too many categories? [4] Do you use the navigation tabs at the top? (Categories, Dev Tracker, Recent, Unanswered, Participated)

1. I peruse general discussion and that's it. I sometimes dip my toe into the others to see what's happening, but then I see that as lively as a graveyard and come back to general discussion.


2. General discussion is basically the height of it.


3. Yes. Far too many. And worse than too many some of them just don't seem necessary. I've seen on other forums, it's been possible to "tag" posts. So they're still all on the one discussion board and no one is forced to place posts in a discussion board with little to no traffic, but players are able to filter what kind of topics they'd like to engage in based on the tag, which on the forums in question was indicated by a small colour coded square in the title bar. Obviously, it's good to keep some things separate, like bug reports and LFG so they don't get lost in general discussion and they get the attention they deserve. But I really don't think there is a need for separate boards for general, and then the crown store, and character builds, and PvP tips and trick. Like I don't even know what is meant to be in general discussion when every conceivable topic appears to have it's very own board for discussion.


4. I occasionally use Dev Tracker because I'm nosy, but aside from that, no.

SaffronCitrusflower

To me it seems many of the sub-forums exist primarily to kinda bury threads, especially the threads that don't necessarily reflect well on management.

evan302

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

[*] How do you use the forums currently? Are you going to one specific category or do you visit multiple?
[*] What are your most viewed sections of the forum?
[*] Do you think the forums have too many categories?
[*] Do you use the navigation tabs at the top? (Categories, Dev Tracker, Recent, Unanswered, Participated)
[/list]

-I will either go straight to General Discussion or Recent. I've only been using Recent since this thread was made as I wasn't aware of it before then, but I'm finding it's easier to find a thread there that may have been moved but I didn't post in. I also browse Housing, Lore or Crown Store occasionally but not very often as there isn't much activity outside of General Discusson.
I don't follow threads I'm interested in, just tend to go to where I saw them last.
I now only make long posts in threads if they are in General Discussion because I find it depressing investing 15 - 20 mins composing something only to have nobody read it.

-There are definitely too many categories

-I'm using the navigation tabs now, but I was unaware of them for a long while as for some reason they never appear until I go to one of the boards.

(I only browse the forum on PC)

ESO_player123

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

But since the conversation was started here, we'll ask some starting questions.

• How do you use the forums currently? Are you going to one specific category or do you visit multiple?
• What are your most viewed sections of the forum?
• Do you think the forums have too many categories?
• Do you use the navigation tabs at the top? (Categories, Dev Tracker, Recent, Unanswered, Participated)

1. I use General section 99% of the time and rarely navigate anywhere else unless I see that an interesting thread was moved from General section
2. General and PTS when a new chapter/large update drops there
3. Yes, too many categories
4. No, I do not use navigation tabs

RevJJ

And now even threads about bugs are being moved to that section and not to the bugs forum. Ridiculous.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/635963/necrom-has-messed-up-psyjic-portal-drops#latest

ESO_player123

Sadly, moving threads to Players Helping Players section does not help players at all. Threads simply die there.

Jaraal

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Sadly, moving threads to Players Helping Players section does not help players at all. Threads simply die there.

And they are aware of that, so the question remains, why?

wilykcat

I feel like this whole discussion is about "my post got moved to another category which means it won't get clicks anymore". 🤔

Tip: If your post doesn't fit into the other categories then it belongs in general discussion.

When my post gets moved, I don't really care or notice. I won't judge the moderators for moving my post.

Varana

To be honest, this discussion is mostly about "posts that I'd like to read or that are very helpful to the community or that should be read by as many as possible get moved to the graveyard forums", not "my post". That it's only affected thread starters here, is hugely misrepresenting the whole discussion.
I have started exactly two topics since 2014, both not in General, the last one over a year ago, and I'd like to ask you to not lie about my motives for posting in this thread. Thanks.

Also, that's not how these forums work, and that should be very clear by now. Intended purpose and real life can diverge sometimes.

DragonRacer

I haven't had any of "my posts" moved, so it hasn't been me crying over that.

It's me seeing threads that are helpful to the community getting moved to subforums where they will never be seen and, therefore, cease to be helpful to the community when that happens. That is irritating, unnecessary, and unhelpful behavior by those in power.

valenwood_vegan

I mean... *THE FORUM MANAGER* for Zenimax literally asked for feedback on the issue earlier in this thread. So it's not ridiculous for people to provide it. If someone doesn't like the topic, they don't actually have to engage with the thread, you know.

Time might be better spent finding topics that are of interest and engaging with those... but trying to repeatedly belittle people who are discussing an issue that was apparently important enough to warrant a direct response from ZoS... not a great look, with all due respect.

Jaraal

DragonRacer wrote: »

I haven't had any of "my posts" moved, so it hasn't been me crying over that.

It's me seeing threads that are helpful to the community getting moved to subforums where they will never be seen and, therefore, cease to be helpful to the community when that happens. That is irritating, unnecessary, and unhelpful behavior by those in power.

The logical solution would be to remove the unvisited subforums, so that threads don't have a place to die.

SilverBride

Jaraal wrote: »

The logical solution would be to remove the unvisited subforums, so that threads don't have a place to die.

This is what should happen. There are currently 36 separate forums, many of which could be consolidated together.

VaranisArano

wilykcat wrote: »

I feel like this whole discussion is about "my post got moved to another category which means it won't get clicks anymore". 🤔

Tip: If your post doesn't fit into the other categories then it belongs in general discussion.

When my post gets moved, I don't really care or notice. I won't judge the moderators for moving my post.

From the first post, I understand this thread to be about how when ZOS moves threads into smaller, less used subforums (Players Helping Players in particular) the threads get less engagement and thus, less help for the players who need it.

In a similar light, I was very curious as to whether moving my Whitestrakes Mayhem Guide from General Discussions to Event Guide did in fact let it serve the community as a guide...or not, because it wasn't visible to the community. I didn't complain to the mods at the time because it is in fact an event guide; I did do a write up afterward here with the results.

In the same way, I'm still watching the "Share your Arcanist" thread that got moved to Community Creations, because Necrom just launched on Console, and I'd like to see if moving that thread actually encouraged posters to share their Arcanist...or if it in fact hid their opportunity to do so. I mean, it is a bunch of creations by the community, so it's technically correct.

There's a difference between "wah, my thread didn't get clicks" and asking "hey...is moving these threads to the correct subforum actually counterproductive to the purpose of those threads/categories?" Less complaining; more case studies. Less judgment of the mods; more analysis of whether it's having the intended effect.

As you yourself said,

wilykcat wrote: »

The forums are meant to be organized so people can easily find stuff

But what happens when the act of organizing means that players aren't finding stuff because most players never engage with those subforums?

I mean, I'd think that Players Helping Players would actually mean people get help, that Event Guides would be where people go to look at guides, and Community Creations helps people share their creations. But if that's not happening, and if we see that's not happening on threads that get moved there, then that's something ZOS should know about as they evaluate the answers they're getting on how players use the forums/subforums. Or, conversely, if threads that get moved are still getting reasonable engagement, then it might be working fine, and it's good to know that too!

FeedbackOnly

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/636644/do-you-have-trouble-filling-replacements-with-dungeon-finder/p1

Moved

Ragnarok0130

Jaraal wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Sadly, moving threads to Players Helping Players section does not help players at all. Threads simply die there.

And they are aware of that, so the question remains, why?

To bury inconvenient threads that have broken no rules would be a logical conclusion.

NewBlacksmurf

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So the posts being moved is so that they are in the sub-section that matches the contents of the thread. This is based on the current structure of the forum. The intent is not to harm players or hinder conversation.

However with that being said, we've noticed frustration with some of the moving of conversations and have started looking at how we can better address this problem. That way, those posting get the help they need and we have conversations happening in the right places. We do intend on asking a wider audience here on the forum how they use the forum currently and how that experience can be made better from user navigation standpoint.

But since the conversation was started here, we'll ask some starting questions.

• How do you use the forums currently? Are you going to one specific category or do you visit multiple?
• What are your most viewed sections of the forum?
• Do you think the forums have too many categories?
• Do you use the navigation tabs at the top? (Categories, Dev Tracker, Recent, Unanswered, Participated)

I used to frequent the forums A LOT and used or tried to use each group as you all intend.

- I typically access the forums on my cell phone (Apple) or an iPad. I go to General 9/10 times unless there is an Xbox Specific technical issue however, other than reporting an issue I've found it best to discuss said topic in the General forums section.

- most viewed sections are : 1 General 2. Xbox Technical
- Yes, I believe the forums has way too many categories.
- There are no navigation tabs on mobile, I don't think I've used the forums on a PC since closed betas.

Suggestion: If you want to keep the categories to cause less co fusion, that's fine but perhaps consider giving each user a way to filter which categories they see as one grouping.

Think of how Reddit works (can't believe I'm saying this) but the flair and or required identifier in some of their groups helps to categorize posts. I think uses would find that more beneficial if the above suggestion is also added.