Kjalnar's Nightmare mask

FluffyBird

And again ZOS proves... Oh well. Nvm.



...I'm not even playing anymore because of such carelessness of devs. So I shouldn't complain anymore.

React

It seems like the bugs aren't even limited to combat anymore - every single piece of content that is being added to the game is broken in some way, or causes issues in unrelated systems when it is added.

How is this acceptable at this point? I am amazed that zenimax is continuing to release quarterly DLCs when they cannot even enable a drop in a dungeon without it being bugged. It seems like the best thing for the game right now would be to reschedule the next two DLCS and replace them with full on maintenance/balancing patches.

If the release of firesong was this bad, imagine what the next DLC with (supposedly) far more content will do to the game.

ApoAlaia

React wrote: »

[...] It seems like the best thing for the game right now would be to reschedule the next two DLCS and replace them with full on maintenance/balancing patches [...]

If constrained by time and release schedules they gave us U35 I shudder to think what they'd come up in the proposed scenario...

Besides, the team that keeps swinging for the fences is the one that is behind the design of dungeons and trials, seems cruel to put them in the dry dock where you give carte blanche to those who... ahem... are having inconsistent performance...

Alaztor91

Why can't the mask style have the intended 4 weeks drop period after the fix? Instead of 2.5 weeks in which there are also 2 major holidays.

RagnarSw

BradTheNord wrote: »

Got to be joking me what is going on over there …. I’m starting to believe the rumours a lot of the ZoS resources are being allocated to the new IP they’re working on it’s the only explanation at this point

It isn't a rumor, Ben Jones has said they ramped up the amount of developers to 200 for their new MMO. That is A LOT and they weren't all hire for this project. I'll let you guess where they came from as we already know people(who aren't even devs) like Tuttle and Firor were moved to it.

RevJJ

redspecter23 wrote: »

I think it might be nice if there were some sort of apology to the players that spent hours upon hours farming for something with a zero percent drop chance.

If it were me that made a mistake like that, I would feel horrible for wasting time of others and I would absolutely lead with a sincere apology.

I know this isn't Gina's fault, but by this point, it's happened enough that players are likely wary of even trying to farm new masks until others can prove it actually exists. This is not a healthy situation to have. One might say it erodes player trust in the ZOS team.

There is nothing left to erode.

OnnuK

That is why this topic moved from general to here... From now on no mask for me until I got confirmation from ZOS. This is again unacceptable. I am glad this time I was lucky enough and trusted my instincts and only did 1 run. I know it! ZOS what is going on? Are we alone? At least make an announcement and tell other players who are not aware this, not to waste time until the patch!

FluffyBird

RagnarSw wrote: »

BradTheNord wrote: »

Got to be joking me what is going on over there …. I’m starting to believe the rumours a lot of the ZoS resources are being allocated to the new IP they’re working on it’s the only explanation at this point

It isn't a rumor, Ben Jones has said they ramped up the amount of developers to 200 for their new MMO. That is A LOT and they weren't all hire for this project. I'll let you guess where they came from as we already know people(who aren't even devs) like Tuttle and Firor were moved to it.

I thought Mr. Firor's position was kind of above specific projects.

Billium813

Honestly, at this point, I just want them to remove the Arms Pack from the crown store, and shoulder style from the Undaunted seller, until they fix this. This would at least help tell players that the mask page is bugged and they shouldn't grind it. Knowing that there are still people grinding the dungeon in hopes of getting a 2.5% drop (which is actually 0%) makes me sad. There is nothing in place to let people know that the mask isn't dropping and players are wasting their time.

... and yes, grinding the same dungeon all weekend for a mask page that doesn't drop is a waste of time even if the dungeon is fun. Having to hunt down information on the forums shouldn't be expected by players.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hey everyone, thanks for your feedback here. You've brought up some very valid points that we should have initially considered. The style page and associated Arms Pack will be extended until January 18 so you'll have 4 full weeks to obtain it once the style page is properly dropping.

NettleCarrier

That's great and all, but there's still no way for players to know that this page isn't dropping unless they look at the forums. I'm fortunate enough to look at a discord dev tracker, but I know we are a small minority... At least a forum banner maybe?

thejadefalcon

That’s great, but why has it been, once again, on the players to make these observations? How did no-one on the dev team see this problem before we pointed it out? This was supposed to be part of what the, as I jested before, the U35 Q&A was apparently meant to answer, so we could gain insight into ZOS’ thoughts during a patch where players, as here, spotted blatant errors with a planned implementation that should have been noticed before it ever made it to the public.

Billium813

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, thanks for your feedback here. You've brought up some very valid points that we should have initially considered. The style page and associated Arms Pack will be extended until January 18 so you'll have 4 full weeks to obtain it once the style page is properly dropping.

Extending the time placates people on the forums, but it does nothing for the players in the game that don't know what's going on. Do you want more players grinding on a known bug, only to eventually be told "oh, we knew it existed but didn't tell you and allowed you to waste your time. Sorry, here is a pet to make up for it!"

I have had guildies post about setting up groups to farm Unhallowed Grave with them. I have had friends contact me about running Unhallowed Grave since the Arms Pack is up in the store. I have seen zone chats for players trying to organize. It falls on the community to /yell in chat that there are known bugs and assist players in not wasting their time. There is no mechanism for the game to inform players about known bugs that are about to be fixed.

You should remove the Arms Pack and Shoulder Page until this is fixed.

Billium813

thejadefalcon wrote: »

That’s great, but why has it been, once again, on the players to make these observations? How did no-one on the dev team see this problem before we pointed it out? This was supposed to be part of what the, as I jested before, the U35 Q&A was apparently meant to answer, so we could gain insight into ZOS’ thoughts during a patch where players, as here, spotted blatant errors with a planned implementation that should have been noticed before it ever made it to the public.

It's because they apparently don't have any automated testing; which is absolutely mindboggling to me as a software developer. They apparently have to manually enable all this stuff, then have no testing to make sure it's done right. Sloppy.

Destai

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, thanks for your feedback here. You've brought up some very valid points that we should have initially considered. The style page and associated Arms Pack will be extended until January 18 so you'll have 4 full weeks to obtain it once the style page is properly dropping.

Thanks for the communications and the extension. Looking forward to getting it.

Yarcnoshy

@ZOS_GinaBruno how many dev ESO have actually 3 devs? ow time all players spend to game how time zenimax spend to players my money is very low for zos? the community is decreased constantly and zos make anything? no. zenimax announcement another game with 200 devs, wow all Elder Scrolls are gracefully

Ek1

Billium813 wrote: »

It's because they apparently don't have any automated testing; which is absolutely mindboggling to me as a software developer. They apparently have to manually enable all this stuff, then have no testing to make sure it's done right. Sloppy.

And as senior architect its funny that you think that a bot that is capable of doing up to trifecta level content would not leak or get reverse engineered or get otherwise abused. Or that the content needs to be made so simple that it can be macroed through.
I don't say it is not possible. Custom client with extended Lua funktions reacting on ingame events would be capable of running triffectas with no graphical interface thus it could be run on VM. And maybe they are doing just that but as it is US based firm they might just have a holiday or the imperial system screws them over.

Katheriah

Give them a break, it's only like the 3rd or 4th time they fail to enable the drop of a stylepage.

Billium813

Ek1 wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

It's because they apparently don't have any automated testing; which is absolutely mindboggling to me as a software developer. They apparently have to manually enable all this stuff, then have no testing to make sure it's done right. Sloppy.

And as senior architect its funny that you think that a bot that is capable of doing up to trifecta level content would not leak or get reverse engineered or get otherwise abused. Or that the content needs to be made so simple that it can be macroed through.
I don't say it is not possible. Custom client with extended Lua funktions reacting on ingame events would be capable of running triffectas with no graphical interface thus it could be run on VM. And maybe they are doing just that but as it is US based firm they might just have a holiday or the imperial system screws them over.

Either you misunderstand how simple the testing needs to be or I am oversimplifying things. I have looked at several Lua addons, so I kinda get how it works, but I am by no means an expert on ESOs game code. I'm not a Lua designer, but from my understanding the core game code is all written in C? I digress, I don't think that really matters.

We aren't talking about some complex game function here tho. I'm not expecting them to have automated testing for skills or player controls or how skills interact with mobs. However, I find it funny that you think that they would need to design a whole bot, that is capable of "doing up to trifecta level content", just to test something rudimentary like testing boss loot drops are as expected. The whole UI (actually using a character to play the game) should be able to be bypassed for internally testing something as basic as triggers and actions! Something that wouldn't even need to be exposed on Live or PTS servers; testing the internal code, on development servers.

Perhaps I'm dumbing it down too much, but in my head:
Test sets appropriate "test character" configuration (for achievement settigns I suppose). Test "fakes" boss death with a trigger. Loot is generated. Internal testing fires triggers, asserts loot expectations based on server configuration settings (like PTS or Live settings). This could also be used for validating that achievements are properly awarded too.
None of this requires actually playing the game (testers) or actually creating some advanced bot. It's all rudimentary testing of basic gameplay elements (are events firing as expected, is loot being generated as expected). It doesn't have to be mind blowing, it doesn't require manual testing, and it can scale to a level of instantly running 1000 times to check drop percentages.

baratron

FluffyBird wrote: »

RagnarSw wrote: »

BradTheNord wrote: »

Got to be joking me what is going on over there …. I’m starting to believe the rumours a lot of the ZoS resources are being allocated to the new IP they’re working on it’s the only explanation at this point

It isn't a rumor, Ben Jones has said they ramped up the amount of developers to 200 for their new MMO. That is A LOT and they weren't all hire for this project. I'll let you guess where they came from as we already know people(who aren't even devs) like Tuttle and Firor were moved to it.

I thought Mr. Firor's position was kind of above specific projects.

It is. He's the Studio Director of Zenimax Online Studios.

FluffyBird

Billium813 wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

That’s great, but why has it been, once again, on the players to make these observations? How did no-one on the dev team see this problem before we pointed it out? This was supposed to be part of what the, as I jested before, the U35 Q&A was apparently meant to answer, so we could gain insight into ZOS’ thoughts during a patch where players, as here, spotted blatant errors with a planned implementation that should have been noticed before it ever made it to the public.

It's because they apparently don't have any automated testing; which is absolutely mindboggling to me as a software developer. They apparently have to manually enable all this stuff, then have no testing to make sure it's done right. Sloppy.

It would be OK, if they had proper manual testing or, you know, actually fixed bugs and problems pointed out during PTS. Or at least if they fixed what got to live in a timely manner and not 10 incrementals later.
And if they have to wait that long because of certifications, then again, maybe there should be more effort to fix bugs before release?

G0K4R

NettleCarrier wrote: »

That's great and all, but there's still no way for players to know that this page isn't dropping unless they look at the forums. I'm fortunate enough to look at a discord dev tracker, but I know we are a small minority... At least a forum banner maybe?

Exactely this... Imagine those players still trying to farm those and wasting their time...

Daoin

personally i can understand a 16 year old with no university or college qualifications maybe still putting in an odd complaint in forum about a mask style page not dropping once it has been said its going to be fixed with a 4 week duration to find one (or 10 in a farmers case)

CaptainVenom

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, thanks for your feedback here. You've brought up some very valid points that we should have initially considered. The style page and associated Arms Pack will be extended until January 18 so you'll have 4 full weeks to obtain it once the style page is properly dropping.

What about people who subscribed to ESO Plus on Nov. 23 just to enter the dungeon and drop it? Because I did and now I'm starting to feel like ZOS just said "not my problem".

FluffyBird

Daoin wrote: »

personally i can understand a 16 year old with no university or college qualifications maybe still putting in an odd complaint in forum about a mask style page not dropping once it has been said its going to be fixed with a 4 week duration to find one (or 10 in a farmers case)

[snip]

Did you mean that if ZOS said they'll fix it, the thread should be closed, because you think that people's wasted efforts during those weeks are not a problem?

[edited for minor baiting]

deleted221205-002626

CaptainVenom wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, thanks for your feedback here. You've brought up some very valid points that we should have initially considered. The style page and associated Arms Pack will be extended until January 18 so you'll have 4 full weeks to obtain it once the style page is properly dropping.

What about people who subscribed to ESO Plus on Nov. 23 just to enter the dungeon and drop it? Because I did and now I'm starting to feel like ZOS just said "not my problem".

You basically get your crown value from the sub plus access to other great content and they owe you nothing!

Katheriah

sinnereso wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, thanks for your feedback here. You've brought up some very valid points that we should have initially considered. The style page and associated Arms Pack will be extended until January 18 so you'll have 4 full weeks to obtain it once the style page is properly dropping.

What about people who subscribed to ESO Plus on Nov. 23 just to enter the dungeon and drop it? Because I did and now I'm starting to feel like ZOS just said "not my problem".

You basically get your crown value from the sub plus access to other great content and they owe you nothing!

Yikes. At least when ZOS gives the 'not my problem' response they pretend to feel sorry for you.

Crown value sounds nice, but many people would never buy crowns for that price. If you sub for a specific goal, it sucks balls if you cannot do that because they broke the same thing again and again.

CaptainVenom

sinnereso wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, thanks for your feedback here. You've brought up some very valid points that we should have initially considered. The style page and associated Arms Pack will be extended until January 18 so you'll have 4 full weeks to obtain it once the style page is properly dropping.

What about people who subscribed to ESO Plus on Nov. 23 just to enter the dungeon and drop it? Because I did and now I'm starting to feel like ZOS just said "not my problem".

You basically get your crown value from the sub plus access to other great content and they owe you nothing!

If I knew page drop would be bugged, I'd have hold my money until they fixed it to subscribe. My intention for this month was to get into Unhallowed Grave and I couldn't care less about the "other content" I own already. But it seems they won't care about people who gave them money at this point, will they?

deleted221205-002626

CaptainVenom wrote: »

sinnereso wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, thanks for your feedback here. You've brought up some very valid points that we should have initially considered. The style page and associated Arms Pack will be extended until January 18 so you'll have 4 full weeks to obtain it once the style page is properly dropping.

What about people who subscribed to ESO Plus on Nov. 23 just to enter the dungeon and drop it? Because I did and now I'm starting to feel like ZOS just said "not my problem".

You basically get your crown value from the sub plus access to other great content and they owe you nothing!

If I knew page drop would be bugged, I'd have hold my money until they fixed it to subscribe. My intention for this month was to get into Unhallowed Grave and I couldn't care less about the "other content" I own already. But it seems they won't care about people who gave them money at this point, will they?

Likly not thats why they provide crowns etc.. Its theyre out incase something goes wrong

FluffyBird

sinnereso wrote: »

FluffyBird wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

personally i can understand a 16 year old with no university or college qualifications maybe still putting in an odd complaint in forum about a mask style page not dropping once it has been said its going to be fixed with a 4 week duration to find one (or 10 in a farmers case)

personally I almost had a stroke trying to decipher you comment

Did you mean that if ZOS said they'll fix it, the thread should be closed, because you think that people's wasted efforts during those weeks are not a problem?

[snip]

Ah, I see. Right, so silly to still come here and complain with all those in-game and social media notifications... oh wait.

[edited to remove quote]