Do you feel The Elder Scrolls spirit while playing ESO?

SerasWhip

This doesn't feel like a TES game at all.

After all, it is an MMORPG, but I wish there was more emphasis on the RPG part.

Going back to Skyrim from this game I recall evading most sidequests because they are so repetitive on ESO, once I started to carry on with Skyrim quests I realized I was missing out on a lot. Especially on the quest rewards part. You get something new for each quest, something that has meaning with the quest, or a unique item you can actually put to use. The characters there don't disappear after the quest is finished, they go home, go to work, and interact with you in different ways, depending on your choices during the said questlines.

All in all, everything feels so alive in other TES games, but in ESO, although the world is full of hundreds of real players, it feels empty.

Billium813

Syldras wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

In ESO, the game is too big to not use Wayshrines and it could be argued that the environment is designed FOR fast travel. There are wayshrines every 5ft and not just fast travel to cities (which would be better imo). The game WANTS you to travel 5ft up the road with a Wayshrine or leave a delve by porting out (more recent design).

As someone who walks and travels by mount a lot (and uses siltstriders on Vvardenfell and sometimes boats to other countries just for fun - btw it's worse for my immersion that these services don't cost anything, not even a few gold coins), I've gotten the impression that actually the map of each region isn't even that big. If you want to travel from Murkmire to Eastmarch, it will take a while, yes, but crossing one single region by horse takes only between 5 and 10 minutes, I think. It's been a while, but I've tried that with Stonefalls and Auridon once. Somehow the wayshrines even seem to make the maps seem bigger than they actually are, because you get the impression you've just teleported to who knows where although you could have just walked there in 2 minutes.

I agree that individual zones are ... relatively small. Given the speed mounts can travel at, 4-5 minutes may be more or less correct to cross 1 zone, end-to-end (sprinting, less). However, I don't personally think that Wayshrines make the maps feel bigger than they actually are. I'm sure this just comes down to an individual players awareness of spatial positioning and distances and time. But I personally never feel an " impression you've just teleported to who knows where". I know every time I teleport that I just traded 3 minutes of my time for 6 seconds of porting. I can trace on the map where I was and where I am and the twists and turns it would take to get there. Of course, experience also players a factor.

To me, Wayshrines make the zone feel even smaller! I know that I can reach ANYWHERE in the zone in 30 seconds. Having the option to port out of delves, at a cost that is arguably negligible, gives me no sense of emersion.

Syldras wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

In ESO, the game is too big to not use Wayshrines and it could be argued that the environment is designed FOR fast travel. There are wayshrines every 5ft and not just fast travel to cities (which would be better imo). The game WANTS you to travel 5ft up the road with a Wayshrine or leave a delve by porting out (more recent design).

That said, having the wayshrines is no bad option, in my opinion. There are people who just want to fastly travel from dungeon to dungeon or doing crafting surveys and writs and such, who would complain if they were forced to walk sometimes longer distances to reach their destination. If I enjoy wandering around and exploring, I don't have to use them. So everyone can decide for themselves. And I don't have the impression that the maps lack detail because most people are fasttravelling anyway either. There's so many detail everywhere, small camps in the wilderness, animals that somehow interact with the world (deer brushing their antlers against trees, nix oxens cleaning eachother), random encounters,... I think the landscapes are built with very much care to detail.

I think zone design is an interesting, multi-faceted challenge. There needs to be locales players would want to revisit, these locales need to be strategically placed. Reducing Wayshrines would create further issues of getting players from the major cities to things like delves and WBs. I think the notion that players will always use the straightest line to their objective is most likely correct, so there would end up being these large arteries running out of the cities... Not to mention the environment aspects (think Malabal Tor is bad? imagine no wayshrines!)

I think Wayshrines require a balancing act and are a necessary evil in may regards. I know that there are players that don't want to spend minutes of time traveling on mounts. I think there are also players that don't want a wayshrine at every road crossing and outside every delve. There must be a happy medium and I personally lean towards less. Would I love it if only major cities had Wayshrines? Perhaps... but I also acknowledge zone and city design would have to radically change! Suddenly everyone is using the main gate 0_0' and player pathing would start to oversimplify. It may actually be bad for an MMO; I acknowledge this! But for MY emersion, it would make ESO feel more TES to me.

Syldras

Billium813 wrote: »

I don't personally think that Wayshrines make the maps feel bigger than they actually are. I'm sure this just comes down to an individual players awareness of spatial positioning and distances and time. But I personally never feel an " impression you've just teleported to who knows where". I know every time I teleport that I just traded 3 minutes of my time for 6 seconds of porting. I can trace on the map where I was and where I am and the twists and turns it would take to get there. Of course, experience also players a factor.

We as players who have travelled whole maps by foot or mount know that these aren't huge distances. But would someone who has never done that ever develop a feeling for the scope of the map? If they always just hopped from one place to another by fast travel? I'd think it's like in real life. Small anecdote, but I've experienced that many people here who only use the subway might know all subway lines and where to change trains, but they don't have a real feeling about distances and how close some places actually are to each other. They hop in their train, sit there for a few minutes looking at a book, newspaper or their smartphone, and have no clue where they actually are and what places they pass by, because, obviously, underground they don't see anything of the landscape, they don't see the path they've just moved.

WiseSky

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Very much so. I have played Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim and also Legends and Blades. I also read the books. Looking to play some of the older games at some point. So far though, ESO feels like the definitive Elder Scrolls experience.
It has tons to explore and do, it expands upon under-appreciated races, it expands on lore and creates some fantastic new stuff. The combat is objectively better than the single player games.

Also the Mer are not hideous monstrosities (morrowind Dunmer looked cool tho).

Of course, we cannot have all the things the single player games have, for balance reasons. For example, no rushibg to grab an OP Daedric aftifact or other unique item. I feel that antiquities and monster sets make for nice substitutes though.

I personally think that the TG and DB quest lines in ESO are the best iterations, maybe with Oblivion's DB being close if not potentially better than ESO, depending on my mood.

Also, as a nice bonus, ESO's world feels more authentic and alive, due to there always being other players roaming around.

I could ramble about this alllll day. If you want me to expand further on this, let me know.

expand

WiseSky

Billium813 wrote: »

There are a couple things that remove me from what I feel as the "Elder Scrolls Spirit". For me, it's all about the emersion and tactile feeling.

1. Wayshrines - the pervasiveness of Wayshrine travel removes that vale of emersion for me. I would personally like LESS wayshrines per area. Having the ability to fast travel at all times... it just pulls me out of the content. I like instanced content more for this reason.
2. UI - The sheer amount of UI elements on the screen quickly pulls me out of the emersion of the game. I have personally bound the "Toggle UI" setting in controls and often turn off the UI for dungeons. Would be nice if NPC text still showed up tho!
3. Number of players - I like seeing other players and NPCs walking around. It makes the world feel realistic and full! However, seeing packs of Assistants and Pets running around really ruins the feel for me.
4. Game Speed - Also part of the "number of players" point, the speed that mounts can move (fully upgraded) kind of speeds up the game for me. It's nice for players that want to get where they are going, but you skip over lots of small design decisions AND I worry that it influences designers to skimp more on the content in-between. Ik it may not be popular, but I like moving a bit slower when questing (not sprinting).

For your 2nd request it is possible, you would just have to install the addons to hide the elements you only wish to hide. All of the addons needed are in this list

WiseSky

Syldras wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

In ESO, the game is too big to not use Wayshrines and it could be argued that the environment is designed FOR fast travel. There are wayshrines every 5ft and not just fast travel to cities (which would be better imo). The game WANTS you to travel 5ft up the road with a Wayshrine or leave a delve by porting out (more recent design).

As someone who walks and travels by mount a lot (and uses siltstriders on Vvardenfell and sometimes boats to other countries just for fun - btw it's worse for my immersion that these services don't cost anything, not even a few gold coins), I've gotten the impression that actually the map of each region isn't even that big. If you want to travel from Murkmire to Eastmarch, it will take a while, yes, but crossing one single region by horse takes only between 5 and 10 minutes, I think. It's been a while, but I've tried that with Stonefalls and Auridon once. Somehow the wayshrines even seem to make the maps seem bigger than they actually are, because you get the impression you've just teleported to who knows where although you could have just walked there in 2 minutes.

That said, having the wayshrines is no bad option, in my opinion. There are people who just want to fastly travel from dungeon to dungeon or doing crafting surveys and writs and such, who would complain if they were forced to walk sometimes longer distances to reach their destination. If I enjoy wandering around and exploring, I don't have to use them. So everyone can decide for themselves. And I don't have the impression that the maps lack detail because most people are fasttravelling anyway either. There's so many detail everywhere, small camps in the wilderness, animals that somehow interact with the world (deer brushing their antlers against trees, nix oxens cleaning eachother), random encounters,... I think the landscapes are built with very much care to detail.

I walked Auridon once from the bottom to the top... It took 47 Minutes. The details of the zones is surely there but only for those who take the time to enjoy it.

Do you ever have your own RP restrictions you make in order to achieve something in game?

I love to RP that the traveling merchants always ask for some random thing in order for them to give me a ride, that way it feels they are not doing it for free ofc

Billium813

WiseSky wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

In ESO, the game is too big to not use Wayshrines and it could be argued that the environment is designed FOR fast travel. There are wayshrines every 5ft and not just fast travel to cities (which would be better imo). The game WANTS you to travel 5ft up the road with a Wayshrine or leave a delve by porting out (more recent design).

As someone who walks and travels by mount a lot (and uses siltstriders on Vvardenfell and sometimes boats to other countries just for fun - btw it's worse for my immersion that these services don't cost anything, not even a few gold coins), I've gotten the impression that actually the map of each region isn't even that big. If you want to travel from Murkmire to Eastmarch, it will take a while, yes, but crossing one single region by horse takes only between 5 and 10 minutes, I think. It's been a while, but I've tried that with Stonefalls and Auridon once. Somehow the wayshrines even seem to make the maps seem bigger than they actually are, because you get the impression you've just teleported to who knows where although you could have just walked there in 2 minutes.

That said, having the wayshrines is no bad option, in my opinion. There are people who just want to fastly travel from dungeon to dungeon or doing crafting surveys and writs and such, who would complain if they were forced to walk sometimes longer distances to reach their destination. If I enjoy wandering around and exploring, I don't have to use them. So everyone can decide for themselves. And I don't have the impression that the maps lack detail because most people are fasttravelling anyway either. There's so many detail everywhere, small camps in the wilderness, animals that somehow interact with the world (deer brushing their antlers against trees, nix oxens cleaning eachother), random encounters,... I think the landscapes are built with very much care to detail.

I walked Auridon once from the bottom to the top... It took 47 Minutes.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....... like RP walk? Not normal jog? maybe... I don't know if I want to try that.

WiseSky

Billium813 wrote: »

WiseSky wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

In ESO, the game is too big to not use Wayshrines and it could be argued that the environment is designed FOR fast travel. There are wayshrines every 5ft and not just fast travel to cities (which would be better imo). The game WANTS you to travel 5ft up the road with a Wayshrine or leave a delve by porting out (more recent design).

As someone who walks and travels by mount a lot (and uses siltstriders on Vvardenfell and sometimes boats to other countries just for fun - btw it's worse for my immersion that these services don't cost anything, not even a few gold coins), I've gotten the impression that actually the map of each region isn't even that big. If you want to travel from Murkmire to Eastmarch, it will take a while, yes, but crossing one single region by horse takes only between 5 and 10 minutes, I think. It's been a while, but I've tried that with Stonefalls and Auridon once. Somehow the wayshrines even seem to make the maps seem bigger than they actually are, because you get the impression you've just teleported to who knows where although you could have just walked there in 2 minutes.

That said, having the wayshrines is no bad option, in my opinion. There are people who just want to fastly travel from dungeon to dungeon or doing crafting surveys and writs and such, who would complain if they were forced to walk sometimes longer distances to reach their destination. If I enjoy wandering around and exploring, I don't have to use them. So everyone can decide for themselves. And I don't have the impression that the maps lack detail because most people are fasttravelling anyway either. There's so many detail everywhere, small camps in the wilderness, animals that somehow interact with the world (deer brushing their antlers against trees, nix oxens cleaning eachother), random encounters,... I think the landscapes are built with very much care to detail.

I walked Auridon once from the bottom to the top... It took 47 Minutes.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....... like RP walk? Not normal jog? maybe... I don't know if I want to try that.

good old walk

just toggle the keybind from run to walk and enjoy

carly

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Recent video made me laugh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxfLnYlT5ts&t=0s&ab_channel=VivaLaDirtLeague

OMG...this is a great video..lol! I recently purchased the Captain Margaux's place in Daggerfall - mostly because I was bored and wanted another small house to decorate. When I exited the house I realized that the city is full of NPC's, going about their daily business - I had forgotten how alive the core zones and cities are. There were so many players milling about and it really made me remember why I first fell in love with this game.

The new chapters are nice - 'visually' but so empty and once you've done the quests, there isn't much reason to go back to them.

Supreme_Atromancer

WiseSky wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

In ESO, the game is too big to not use Wayshrines and it could be argued that the environment is designed FOR fast travel. There are wayshrines every 5ft and not just fast travel to cities (which would be better imo). The game WANTS you to travel 5ft up the road with a Wayshrine or leave a delve by porting out (more recent design).

As someone who walks and travels by mount a lot (and uses siltstriders on Vvardenfell and sometimes boats to other countries just for fun - btw it's worse for my immersion that these services don't cost anything, not even a few gold coins), I've gotten the impression that actually the map of each region isn't even that big. If you want to travel from Murkmire to Eastmarch, it will take a while, yes, but crossing one single region by horse takes only between 5 and 10 minutes, I think. It's been a while, but I've tried that with Stonefalls and Auridon once. Somehow the wayshrines even seem to make the maps seem bigger than they actually are, because you get the impression you've just teleported to who knows where although you could have just walked there in 2 minutes.

That said, having the wayshrines is no bad option, in my opinion. There are people who just want to fastly travel from dungeon to dungeon or doing crafting surveys and writs and such, who would complain if they were forced to walk sometimes longer distances to reach their destination. If I enjoy wandering around and exploring, I don't have to use them. So everyone can decide for themselves. And I don't have the impression that the maps lack detail because most people are fasttravelling anyway either. There's so many detail everywhere, small camps in the wilderness, animals that somehow interact with the world (deer brushing their antlers against trees, nix oxens cleaning eachother), random encounters,... I think the landscapes are built with very much care to detail.

I walked Auridon once from the bottom to the top... It took 47 Minutes. The details of the zones is surely there but only for those who take the time to enjoy it.

Do you ever have your own RP restrictions you make in order to achieve something in game?

I love to RP that the traveling merchants always ask for some random thing in order for them to give me a ride, that way it feels they are not doing it for free ofc

I don't RP walk, (I'd lose patience), but I *do* very frequently avoid wayshrines, and travel from zone to zone, wherever there is an opportunity to do so. Funny thing is, as time goes by, I see more people doing it, which is pretty cool.

I'd say that Its HIGHLY important to me that this is continued to be a supported possibility.

On that note, I still really want gates between Murkmire and Blackwood, Alik'r and Fallen Wastes (southern Bangkorai), and between Dragonstar and The Reach.

Supreme_Atromancer

Syldras wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

In ESO, the game is too big to not use Wayshrines and it could be argued that the environment is designed FOR fast travel. There are wayshrines every 5ft and not just fast travel to cities (which would be better imo). The game WANTS you to travel 5ft up the road with a Wayshrine or leave a delve by porting out (more recent design).

As someone who walks and travels by mount a lot (and uses siltstriders on Vvardenfell and sometimes boats to other countries just for fun - btw it's worse for my immersion that these services don't cost anything, not even a few gold coins)

That's really cool, @Syldras ! I actually personally intended to use boats more, but when I tried, I found that its hard to do so- many docks don't have ships going to where you want, others will take you to an inland city even when more sensible docks exist not too far off. I wish there was a system in place for it to work in an intuitive way (we already have wayshrines, ships should be designed immersively), though I don't think it should be some big priority or anything.

Krist

ESO feels very familiar to me, so I do think it has the same spirit. That doesn't mean it is the same. Quite frankly it being an MMO means it will be different. I rather enjoy the fact that it is an MMO, even if I do not interact with anyone. It feels more alive. Yes, there will always be people doing goofy things, that for them is fun, but that is what comes with an MMO. I can ignore them and the teenage chat quite easily.

What happened to me the other day is what makes ESO so great to me. I was just fishing, and not even fishing to "get something", I just felt like fishing, quite immersed in solo rp, with shirt and britches on for fishing of course. While I was fishing I ended up in a major quest that is either newish or I just never came across it before. It was cool.

Go hunting and fishing sometimes. Go explore and take your time looking around. Go find the best spots for selfie screen shots, when the moons are perfect. Go into Cyrodiil and do the dungeons and gather the shards. Yes, you may get murdered, but so what? You hit a dungeon or go after a shard not knowing if you will get caught, hey, that will get your blood flowing.

In my opinion it really is what you make of it.

In the end, the lore is there to explore. The lands are there to go look at, especially the places that you know from the other games, to see how familiar or unfamiliar they are (lots of difference in time). There are negatives, in my opinion too much daedra interactions, but it is what it is. There are negatives in say Skyrim as well. You can save the town from the dragon, and then they will try and string you up for accidently killing a chicken! lol

Have fun. Don't stress or over focus on the negatives. The lore is there, the spirit is still there.

Supreme_Atromancer

Quethrosar wrote: »

game needs name police.

I feel ya- I had an epiphany when I realised that if I went around booting everyone with a bad name, there'd be no one in Tamriel but me!

Random letters and numbers for name? Haha! Bye! Kaboom.

Play on controversial dev decision for a name? On ya bike, son!

PvP boasting, crap-talking in name form? BOOT! Toodles!

Name from some other franchise, with symbols and numbers replacing letters because 100 people already did the same thing? YEET!

I honestly just pretend they aren't there, these days. Then each to their own. Win-win.

Living_Tribunal

Nah, not really. Seeing other people running around kinda ruins it for me. However, the soundtrack hits that Morrowind nostalgia bone hard.

Mrtoobyy

Played Oblivion and Skyrim for too many hours to tell . Back in 2014 I played ESO beta and have been playing since then, last two years there has been weekly breaks due to bad patches and other stuff.

When ESO first came out everything was slower and felt like it had more weight wich made it feel more like an Elder scrolls game. Nowadays there are many bright flashy stuff, clipping fast twitching animations. I would love if they were to revert back more to the original feel.
Leveled zones made bosses and enemies have depth and some even felt scary making you not wanna face them cause you know you'd just die!

The "dumbing" down of the game has contributed to that but also myself is responsible for that, after 8 years of playing a game it's very likely that one becomes just too good for alot of things in the game.

I have lost the spark I've had for this game because of the latest years changes... I am though really looking forward to the global reveal wishing the big thing will be harder overland. Would be a great feature but there are so many things I personally would wanna change/revert in this game for it to reach it's full potential.

I mean lets be real, this game could be the best fantasy/RPG game of all time if were to be given enough love.

Syldras

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

That's really cool, @Syldras ! I actually personally intended to use boats more, but when I tried, I found that its hard to do so- many docks don't have ships going to where you want, others will take you to an inland city even when more sensible docks exist not too far off.

I'm still used to this:



So...

It's really a matter of memorizing the routes. Not very convenient, I must admit.

Varana

I think that many expect very different things from a "TES spirit" that doesn't necessarily have much to do with some of the actual single player TES games, and instead represent an idealised look back.

Like wayshrines when you can insta-port wherever you want in Oblivion or Skyrim. (And just as instant teleports, you can just ignore them and take wayshrines as what they are to the general populace - little shrines to the local gods.)

Or UI - there aren't actually that much more UI elements in ESO, and some of them you can just switch off as well. (Not to mention the older games with their large and blocky old-school RPG interfaces.)

Things like NPC schedules were only really introduced in Oblivion. Before that, you had shops closing for the night, but not much more. Companions with inventories and rudimentary personality and stuff are a Skyrim thing. As is mounted combat, again only very basic. You can have the "TES spirit" entirely without them.

Also, ESO has been around for a really long time now. It's quite inevitable that the sense of wonder and exploration is somewhat reduced after all this time.

There's a lot of nostalgia doing the heavy lifting here.

BretonMage

Varana wrote: »

I think that many expect very different things from a "TES spirit" that doesn't necessarily have much to do with some of the actual single player TES games, and instead represent an idealised look back.

Like wayshrines when you can insta-port wherever you want in Oblivion or Skyrim. (And just as instant teleports, you can just ignore them and take wayshrines as what they are to the general populace - little shrines to the local gods.)

I have to admit, travelling in Morrowind was incredibly frustrating for me, and I literally cheered when Oblivion introduced fast travel. Incidentally (or ironically), I find ESO to be perfect for avoiding fast travelling: mounts are fast, and there's always something to do while travelling, whether it's farming mats or sets, fighting WBs or one of their frequent (much more frequent than Skyrim's) encounters.

Adding to your post, I'd say some gameplay things have been very consistent in the SP games to date, like slow and difficult-to-manouveur mounts and clunky combat, so I'm very glad we can cherry-pick the TES spirit we like (and I hope they never lose sight of: lore, atmosphere and music).

jtm1018

Yeah, definitely.
Morrowind, Summerset, Wrothgar, feels so right.

rpa

No. I guess the real TES level of "it just works" is impractical in an online game. One does not even have to install unofficial bugfixing patch to be able to play. And I can play indefinitely without having to exit the ailing gaem and restart whole computer to clear up the debris. A courier may give me a stupid message but never wearing nothing but ugly underwear. Only select few mobs ascend like balloons and disappear to sky. Only few quests are unfinishable. ESO has it's bugs and lacks polish at corners but really does miss the thousands of mistakes and clitches of the single player games.

HailstoSithis

Recently played TES3: Morrowind again. It feels more unique than this game. No offense to the people who work very hard on this game but most of what you say is fact in my eyes; might not feel that way to others, but I agree with nearly everything you said.

mocap

Played Skyrim recently. No HOTs, no NPC healers, healing mechanics in general is just an abomnination (like devouring a ton of vegetables from the inventory). DOT builds barely works even at lowest difficulty. Clunky melee animation. Delay hit registering, like it's not single player but more like Cyrodiil with 400+ ping.

Im glad i don't feel The Elder Scrolls spirit while playing ESO.

Xarc

even if you planning to play immersive, you always see 99% of players running everywhere and daedric pets in cities.
This is a call back to reality of how non immersive is an mmo like eso.

Syldras

Xarc wrote: »

even if you planning to play immersive, you always see 99% of players running everywhere and daedric pets in cities. This is a call back to reality of how non immersive is an mmo like eso.

I agree that's a typical immersion problem with MMOs. Not only that the world doesn't really progress, no influential choices can be made and most npcs just resurrect a few minutes after they die, also: People jumping around everywhere, wearing weird outfits and even weirder skins, sitting on exaggerated unnatural-looking mounts. Could have been toned down a bit by not selling flashy color dyes and lore-breaking mounts in the store, but it's not surprising that they offer everything that sells well, and rather warp established lore than insisting that "no, you cannot ride on a neon-orange lizard zombie horse sprinkling pink glimmer dust from its hooves, it's lore-breaking"... But I guess that's just how MMOs are. So I don't even try to compare them to singleplayer games too much.