update 35 almost kill the game

Amottica

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Look on steam charts - you see players drop there on about 15%.

It is more accurate data, because such players have their main character there. As example main on steam and some Alt accounts on standart launcher

@SPR_of_HA_community

You are correct that the Steam data is more accurate than what happens in one's guild or friends list. It is also unbiased. However, looking at what happened in August vs July is not the appropriate way to look at such data due to seasonal fluctuations.

The way an analyst, especially a business analyst, would look at such a chart is by comparing the same month across different years. Since we saw a boost from COVID in 2020 and slowly decreased in 2021 we should go back to 2019 for clean data.
Looking at these three months and comparing 2022 to 2019 we see an increase in the average players. Average players is a better indicator than peak since is shows a more sustained player base.

Regards,

It is not a clear data. In 2019+ you get ru region players, thats why you get 25k+ players numbers. You get 1 more big region of players. Yes COVID give you some numbers, but players from ru regions - like to play games that are translated - a lot of them do not know English.

With out COVID you already have 16+ k active players in Steam. Now it is 13k.

You can say about some region restrictions - but - even with them before U35 it was 16k+ players and all restrictions are easely avoidable, so if even 1 player from such region knows how to do it - ALL players from there knows how to do it )

Because such players are more focused on different forums, thats why if you see ru forum part of TESO here is quite empty.

The 28k plays is right at the point of COVIC lockdowns starting in mass. I assume that is what you are speaking of since you do not offer any dates for any of the numbers you provide.

Yes, but just minus from that number of players from ru region, that start play near same time.

Game was quite popular and a lot of players who do not play it before start play it. Than you can see a drop to 20k players on steam charts.

The reason was - regional prices and game translated to ru language, that make a lot number of players play it.

But after that - server was overloaded and big number of players leave the game because of bad perfomance and unpopular changes.

I think, even with out COVID this number would be about may be 25k players.


Game was very good made and a lot of players tell about it in 2019 year, the same time - new region of players was added.

All numbers and dates are the same and are posted on same sources we both look, so I do not think I need to post it to much.

I am really lazy one )

ESO has players in Russia before they added language localization in 2020. Zenimax's big announcement stated that Russian language support would be an official part of the game starting Update 26 for PC/Mac on May 26, 2020. However, people in Russia were playing ESO before the language support was added.

Just like we have Spanish-speaking players in ESO now and have for years even though ESO have not have Spanish language support did not start until this year.

So it is an assumption that there was a massive influx of Russian players during the past couple of years.


Please note that I have provided links to the information I have cited.

It is not an assumption. It is just how it is.

I am ru player and I played starting from 2016/2017

Yes a little part of players played TESO from ru regions, but their numbers was quite small.

The same time ALL players I start with leave the game.

Not a lot of RU players will play Teso for 40$ , but when regional prise drop to 5$ some players try the game. The same time in Ru - region some people know English, some Germany, some Chiness as second language. English is not primary foreign language. Some players in Ru - can know German but they do not understand English as example.

It is like ... would you play Chiness game that is not translated ? Some our players do. But for a lot of them English not translated game is like playing Chinese game for you.

They do not understand anything that is written.

So not a big part of players play not translated games.

The same time when ZOS lower prises and overload servers - some old players leave the game or was mad, because they can not normally play. So TESO get players and bots - that farm gold, but lose real players who was ready to pay for game more than 5 dolars )

So it do not look strange that gold grow in prises to 1200+ now ? ) From 300 ?

Thats why you see 28 k players that than fast drop to 20k )

You started playing well before ESO included Russian language support demonstrates my point very well. Thank you.

Beyond that, generalized statements about when most Russians started playing ESO make such claims an assumption by definition. If actual information was provided to back such claims then we could move it past considering it speculation.

Ok, you must not believe me ) But it is just like it is )

Teso becomes popular in 2019-2020 years, thats why you get so much players + new region.

On youtube not a big number of players even tell about it. But with good work TESO become very popular in this years.

But after a big number of bad desisions it lose a lot of players to 2023 year

I have asked you to provide real data to support the claim the increase in players was due to an influx of Russian players, but none has been provided. Case in point, the decline in players since the Spring of 2020 is mostly due to the influx of players related to the COVID lockdown returning to work. It would be very difficult to say it was mostly due to "bad decisions" just as it has proven difficult to demonstrate that there was a significant increase in players due to Russian language support being provided.

I respect that you have the opinions you have noted. It is not a matter of believing anyone but the value of looking for actual facts being presented. Again, I ask for real data to back up these claims.

Regards,

I do not think, that you ever get real numbers, just because it is just impossible. The same time even on numbers how to compare is it new player or just new alt accounts.

I can base on expirience of playing with different players and number of ru speaking players greatly increase.

I played with a number of players from South America. Does that mean ESO saw an increase in players from South America? Now that I am not playing with many from South America does that mean they left because they were unhappy with changes to the game?

Probably not in both occasions as the very narrow portion of the game each of us sees is too small to suggest it reflects on the game as a whole. That is why guessing what is happening from such limited information is just that, guessing. It is also why I only deal with real information and avoid trying to say something is happening based on nothing more than an assumption.

OK if you want real numbers just compare how online changed in same time on other games that has no region add. And if they have the same +- add in percents recalculate this procent, so may be you get some +- correct answer. May be if you do such calculation we get more realistick answer It is easy thing to do and it is some thing that I am limited to do here (because may be it is some promotion of other games that is limited by forum rules)

Games I watch get about 10-20% add because of COVID. So yes it depends, but for TESO online jump in 2 times from 13k to 28k, jump only because of COVID for 20% is some thing possible, but if so - 13k+20% is about 16k players, but you see 12k more growth in numbers.

That is near numbers I talk you before.

And as a player with 20years+MMO expirience I think I already know how thingth work there quite correct

So predict a lot of thingth is easy thing enough to do, because it is always the same each time.

Comparing ESO numbers to that of other games does not provide real numbers about any aspect of the population in ESO.

The fact is, we do not know how adding Russian language support influenced the size of the Russian-speaking population in ESO. We can only guess and even then we are guessing with any real basis for the number.

That is why it is nothing more than an assumption to suggest most of the growth at that point, or even a significant part of the growth was due to that improvement Zenimax made. Guesses and assumptions are not facts.

I see no benefit in continuing to detour this thread with this tangent unless you can come up with actual numbers that can be demonstrably accurate. So with respect to you and your opinion, have a good day.

If you go through the history of my conversation with them that becomes very clear they are speaking to the increase in Russian players being the driving force in the increase in the Steam numbers during the past couple of years.

Below are just a couple of their sentences to demonstrate the core of that conversation. They are in the history of what you quoted.

In 2019+ you get ru region players, thats why you get 25k+ players numbers.

So it is an assumption that there was a massive influx of Russian players during the past couple of years.

doesurmindglow

Amottica wrote: »

Comparing ESO numbers to that of other games does not provide real numbers about any aspect of the population in ESO.

Except you're wrong and yes, it does. You're working especially hard on this thread to ignore and downplay the mountain of real data that has been presented by multiple people from multiple sources. The comparison with FF14's Steam playerbase and change in player reviews over time are both robust, empirical data sets with more than sufficient sample sizes (thousands) as to be representative. [snip]

Put simply, the argument you're engaged in at this point is data denial, not data inquiry. You're engaging in the assumptions by coming up with increasingly absurd reasons to dismiss and ignore all of the actual data that does, in fact, exist.

That's fine if that's something that makes you feel better about continuing to enjoy a game whose playerbase is generally in decline, but the developers would do well to ignore your one player's perspective and focus instead on the larger context of hard data, which is in fact showing that their playerbase has been eclipsed by other games in the genre, and on the ample player feedback that provides clear indications as to why: persistent and unresolved performance issues and bugs, dramatic and repeated balance changes that don't really improve gameplay, frustrations with monetization and the lack of worthwhile in-game rewards, and (though to lesser extent than the first three), a dwindling interest in repetitive storylines and seemingly recycled content.

I ultimately do want the game to succeed and have a positive review of it overall. But both are in jeopardy if the playerbase continues to leave the game, and ignoring the data and the (frankly pretty loud) outcry that says they are doing so helps no one, including those of us who aren't yet ready to abandon it entirely. Especially those of us who aren't ready to abandon it entirely.

[edited for baiting]

doesurmindglow

Amottica wrote: »

Comparing ESO numbers to that of other games does not provide real numbers about any aspect of the population in ESO.

This statement is literally "hard numbers provide no hard numbers," which is utter nonsense.

Amottica

doesurmindglow wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Comparing ESO numbers to that of other games does not provide real numbers about any aspect of the population in ESO.

Except you're wrong and yes, it does.

You're working especially hard on this thread to ignore and downplay the mountain of real data that has been presented by multiple people from multiple sources. The comparison with FF14's Steam playerbase and change in player reviews over time are both robust, empirical data sets with more than sufficient sample sizes (thousands) as to be representative. [snip]

Put simply, the argument you're engaged in at this point is data denial, not data inquiry. You're engaging in the assumptions by coming up with increasingly absurd reasons to dismiss and ignore all of the actual data that does, in fact, exist.

That's fine if that's something that makes you feel better about continuing to enjoy a game whose playerbase is generally in decline, but the developers would do well to ignore your one player's perspective and focus instead on the larger context of hard data, which is in fact showing that their playerbase has been eclipsed by other games in the genre, and on the ample player feedback that provides clear indications as to why: persistent and unresolved performance issues and bugs, dramatic and repeated balance changes that don't really improve gameplay, frustrations with monetization and the lack of worthwhile in-game rewards, and (though to lesser extent than the first three), a dwindling interest in repetitive storylines and seemingly recycled content.

I ultimately do want the game to succeed and have a positive review of it overall. But both are in jeopardy if the playerbase continues to leave the game, and ignoring the data and the (frankly pretty loud) outcry that says they are doing so helps no one, including those of us who aren't yet ready to abandon it entirely. Especially those of us who aren't ready to abandon it entirely.

[edited for baiting]

@doesurmindglow

Their post attempted to suggest that the difference between the increases in players of ESO and other games defined how many Russian players started playing ESO during a given time. That is the entire conversation between me and the person I was replying to and nothing more.

In your post, including the part I hid behind the spoiler, I see no mention of Russian players starting to play ESO. If I missed how you addressed the increase of the Russian population after the Russian language support was added to the game was the driving force behind player growth for two years, and COVID lockdowns did not have that much effect on the population growth, then I do apologize. I do however ask for that point to be highlighted since I clearly missed it.


Regards,


Below are just a couple of their sentences to demonstrate the core of that conversation. They were in the history of my comment you quoted but seem to be edited out. They can easily be found by going back to my previous comment.

In 2019+ you get ru region players, thats why you get 25k+ players numbers.

So it is an assumption that there was a massive influx of Russian players during the past couple of years.

Amottica

doesurmindglow wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Comparing ESO numbers to that of other games does not provide real numbers about any aspect of the population in ESO.

This statement is literally "hard numbers provide no hard numbers," which is utter nonsense.

@doesurmindglow no hard numbers about the increase in Russian players were mentioned. HA has been suggesting that the increase in the game's population after Russian language support was added was mostly due to an increase in Russian players.

If you go through the history of my conversation with them that becomes very clear.

LordRukia

I still haven't logged in since a little bit after U35. It hit veterans the hardest, those of us that have gone through so many bad updates and finally broke. I found the changes to be unacceptable. Before I started ESO I was mainly a WoW player on MMO-champion forums seeing constant posts about how ZoS kept ruining the game with constant changes. When I played I thought they were crazy, complaining about stupid crap. Now I know how they feel after years it is suffering to play this game for any long period of time.

tgrippa

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

Most guild ads I see in zone chat (PC/NA) are either casual social PvE guilds or RP guilds, and they are the same guilds I see over and over again. Nothing wrong with those guilds per se, but where are the PvP guilds, the end game PvE guilds, the trading guilds?

me_ming wrote: »

Most guild ads I see in zone chat (PC/NA) are either casual social PvE guilds or RP guilds, and they are the same guilds I see over and over again. Nothing wrong with those guilds per se, but where are the PvP guilds, the end game PvE guilds, the trading guilds?

They've been so neglected for so long that they have come to the conclusion that things will never change. ESO is just for casual questers now.

This was what did it for me. I ended up switching to WoW a couple of years back during Kyne’s Aegis and I am now enjoying the best dungeon and raiding I have ever experienced in a game. Switching to WoW was the best decision I made. As someone who is mainly focused on end game dungeons and raiding, seeing ZOS’ inaction following their infamous roadmap for fixes and improvements that resulted was the last straw and I gave up on them.

The ESO devs should take some lessons.

LordRukia

tgrippa wrote: »

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

Most guild ads I see in zone chat (PC/NA) are either casual social PvE guilds or RP guilds, and they are the same guilds I see over and over again. Nothing wrong with those guilds per se, but where are the PvP guilds, the end game PvE guilds, the trading guilds?

me_ming wrote: »

Most guild ads I see in zone chat (PC/NA) are either casual social PvE guilds or RP guilds, and they are the same guilds I see over and over again. Nothing wrong with those guilds per se, but where are the PvP guilds, the end game PvE guilds, the trading guilds?

They've been so neglected for so long that they have come to the conclusion that things will never change. ESO is just for casual questers now.

This was what did it for me. I ended up switching to WoW a couple of years back during Kyne’s Aegis and I am now enjoying the best dungeon and raiding I have ever experienced in a game. Switching to WoW was the best decision I made. As someone who is mainly focused on end game dungeons and raiding, seeing ZOS’ inaction following their infamous roadmap for fixes and improvements that resulted was the last straw and I gave up on them.

The ESO devs should take some lessons.

Not even mythic + tops trifecta / hm dungeons for me in ESO I just got tired of cycling through friends and being the only idiot still playing while the devs take a fat dump on my face every update.

Mythics are so formulaic and comfortable and classes don't change much so many people engage with that content, but doesn't give me the challenge ESO dungeons do.

While I feel they are vastly inferior I still play them for the easy loot. 😂 Tazavesh was amazing though , blizzard obviously has the potential to reach ESO quality dungeons.

doesurmindglow

Amottica wrote: »

In your post, including the part I hid behind the spoiler, I see no mention of Russian players starting to play ESO. If I missed how you addressed the increase of the Russian population after the Russian language support was added to the game was the driving force behind player growth for two years, and COVID lockdowns did not have that much effect on the population growth, then I do apologize. I do however ask for that point to be highlighted since I clearly missed it.

I don't know why you're obsessed with this irrelevant nonsense about Russian language support, but it completely misses the context of playerbase data that's been presented. On top of that, you're making claims here without providing any supporting data.

Where is your data to show that "the increase in Russian population was ... the driving force behind player growth for two years"? I've seen no actual data to support this claim here or anywhere.

Claims that are supported by data, however, is that other games in the genre are still retaining a large portion of the playerbase they gained during lockdowns while ESO is not.

doesurmindglow

Amottica wrote: »

HA has been suggesting that the increase in the game's population after Russian language support was added was mostly due to an increase in Russian players.

Ok, but such a claim isn't actually all that relevant or helpful. Steam playerbase data does show an increase that corresponds with pandemic-related lockdowns, and a decline that corresponds with the easing of public health restrictions as vaccines made it possible to more safely return to work. No one is disputing this.

All of that is also true for Final Fantasy 14, a popular and by all accounts, a successful competitor in a similar market, which has nonetheless been able to retain more of its concurrent playerbase and Twitch audience, compared to ESO.

Basically looking at ESO's rise and fall in playerbase by itself could lead one to believe that merely the COVID pandemic is behind the numbers. But comparing its playerbase to other games and then noticing the decline in its review ratings both provide verifiable, empirical data that something further is going on:

ArcVelarian

There are numerous things holding things that have driven people away from the game:

1. PvP Server Stability. Honest to god Cyrodiil performed better in beta and it's frustrating that no one has been able to figure out what broke it.
2. The refusal of ZeniMax to listen to player feedback.
3. Constant changes to the core combat.
4. Lack of concrete roles for classes.
5. The homogenization of classes. The "play the class the way you want" design philosophy has been a failure.
6. No clear way to learn weaving and improve your skill with it. Weaving/animation cancelling has just not been integrated into the game all that well from a gameplay and visual standpoint. It's interesting that New World actually improved on ESO's combat formula with attack combos and ability CDs.
7. The constant nerf/buff cycle of armor sets. It drives us all crazy and it is not fun to have to grind out the latest pay-to-win OP af armor set, especially when that armor set will be nerfed into the ground in ~4 months.

Captain_Devildog

ArcVelarian wrote: »

There are numerous things holding things that have driven people away from the game:

1. PvP Server Stability. Honest to god Cyrodiil performed better in beta and it's frustrating that no one has been able to figure out what broke it.
2. The refusal of ZeniMax to listen to player feedback.
3. Constant changes to the core combat.
4. Lack of concrete roles for classes.
5. The homogenization of classes. The "play the class the way you want" design philosophy has been a failure.
6. No clear way to learn weaving and improve your skill with it. Weaving/animation cancelling has just not been integrated into the game all that well from a gameplay and visual standpoint. It's interesting that New World actually improved on ESO's combat formula with attack combos and ability CDs.
7. The constant nerf/buff cycle of armor sets. It drives us all crazy and it is not fun to have to grind out the latest pay-to-win OP af armor set, especially when that armor set will be nerfed into the ground in ~4 months.

Wait there is much more..

8. The bugs and crashes all the time.. it's making the game really hard to play.
9. Main class spammable gets deleted after 8 years.
10. missing loads of quality of life improvements, like stacking a guild bank or having a collection book for your furnishing plans to track them down.
11. The card game was a big minus for alot of players, it felt like they don't care about the community.
12. Update 35 offcourse.
13. These kind of things made alot of people also upset
A. €30 banker - (can't acces guildbank, guildstore)
B. €30 Merchant - (can't repair)

It is really sad..

Tandor

doesurmindglow wrote: »

Delgent wrote: »

We've started spending money on a different MMO. Last night we caught a video by Lucky Ghost about MMO trends, and it has inspired us to go try Final Fantasy. Lucky was our go to for ESO streams and content/builds. But since ESO is such a minor part of our gaming universe these days, I can't honestly say we seek out any ESO content these days.

Yeah the thing is, Final Fantasy's playerbase over time shows it's entirely possible to retain player interest even as "people return to work," which is apparently the only and exclusive reason we will accept on this thread for the decline we've all been observing and experiencing in various data sets related to ESO.

While numbers are certainly off their peaks, Final Fantasy 14 still has well over double the playerbase on Steam as it did before the pandemic:



Also interesting is that the two games had a similar playerbase on Steam for a pretty long time, with ESO actually outperforming FF14 in terms of concurrent Steam players for a number of years. That all started to change sometime last year, when FF14 finally and permanently eclipsed ESO, and it's only become worse in the time since.

Anywho the data is out there and it all tells a similar story. People are engaged in a lot of mental gymnastics on this thread to ignore it to be sure, but it is available to anyone that wants to go looking.

Statistics can tell us all sorts of things according to how we choose to interpret them. What that chart tells me is that FFXIV is currently experiencing an exponentially steeper decline in popularity on Steam from its peak than ESO.

doesurmindglow

Tandor wrote: »

Statistics can tell us all sorts of things according to how we choose to interpret them. What that chart tells me is that FFXIV is currently experiencing an exponentially steeper decline in popularity on Steam from its peak than ESO.

Sure, but that peak was also a lot higher. What's the point here? I don't see relevance.

Much more obvious and relevant is that FF14 is now outperforming ESO in this large sample population, which until about the middle of last year wasn't historically the case. Which is concerning to most of the playerbase, and should be especially so to the developers.

SPR_of_HA_community

Amottica wrote: »

doesurmindglow wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Comparing ESO numbers to that of other games does not provide real numbers about any aspect of the population in ESO.

Except you're wrong and yes, it does.

You're working especially hard on this thread to ignore and downplay the mountain of real data that has been presented by multiple people from multiple sources. The comparison with FF14's Steam playerbase and change in player reviews over time are both robust, empirical data sets with more than sufficient sample sizes (thousands) as to be representative. [snip]

Put simply, the argument you're engaged in at this point is data denial, not data inquiry. You're engaging in the assumptions by coming up with increasingly absurd reasons to dismiss and ignore all of the actual data that does, in fact, exist.

That's fine if that's something that makes you feel better about continuing to enjoy a game whose playerbase is generally in decline, but the developers would do well to ignore your one player's perspective and focus instead on the larger context of hard data, which is in fact showing that their playerbase has been eclipsed by other games in the genre, and on the ample player feedback that provides clear indications as to why: persistent and unresolved performance issues and bugs, dramatic and repeated balance changes that don't really improve gameplay, frustrations with monetization and the lack of worthwhile in-game rewards, and (though to lesser extent than the first three), a dwindling interest in repetitive storylines and seemingly recycled content.

I ultimately do want the game to succeed and have a positive review of it overall. But both are in jeopardy if the playerbase continues to leave the game, and ignoring the data and the (frankly pretty loud) outcry that says they are doing so helps no one, including those of us who aren't yet ready to abandon it entirely. Especially those of us who aren't ready to abandon it entirely.

[edited for baiting]

@doesurmindglow

Their post attempted to suggest that the difference between the increases in players of ESO and other games defined how many Russian players started playing ESO during a given time. That is the entire conversation between me and the person I was replying to and nothing more.

In your post, including the part I hid behind the spoiler, I see no mention of Russian players starting to play ESO. If I missed how you addressed the increase of the Russian population after the Russian language support was added to the game was the driving force behind player growth for two years, and COVID lockdowns did not have that much effect on the population growth, then I do apologize. I do however ask for that point to be highlighted since I clearly missed it.


Regards,


Below are just a couple of their sentences to demonstrate the core of that conversation. They were in the history of my comment you quoted but seem to be edited out. They can easily be found by going back to my previous comment.

In 2019+ you get ru region players, thats why you get 25k+ players numbers.

So it is an assumption that there was a massive influx of Russian players during the past couple of years.

Do not focus on Russians to much it can be ru-speaking players.

I just focus on : that it was not only increase on COVID, yes covid gives some numbers but if look it on other games examples of statistick it is not really to big 10-20% can be COVID. Others are just new players whodoes not base on COVID, so players game lose is big and it is not based on COVID. It had 28k players , but now numbers fall to 12,5 that is 3times fall.

It is not COVID - it is bad game changes, because as example - some other games even see growth with COVID ends.

So you can not say - it was COVID - no it was bad game changes.

That is all. And I do not really care much Russians or Not Russians. I just show you as possible example where players can came from.

SPR_of_HA_community

"11. The card game was a big minus for alot of players, it felt like they don't care about the community."

It is not really big problem.

They add some thing I do not even try,because I am not interesting in it.

OK they add it, may be there are 100 players who like it, OK ! I do not care. It was not a bad change. It was just change I am not interested in and do not care.

But changes that I can not normally play or that destroy my sets, skills and etc cares me.

If some one get cards OK

But they DESTROYED old and good content, a lot of people like and use and give some real (snip) content to players.

So you have not thingth you like now, but have (snip) - do not like new (snip) = do not play.

OK - a lot of players do not play now ))) That is all.

Amottica

doesurmindglow wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

In your post, including the part I hid behind the spoiler, I see no mention of Russian players starting to play ESO. If I missed how you addressed the increase of the Russian population after the Russian language support was added to the game was the driving force behind player growth for two years, and COVID lockdowns did not have that much effect on the population growth, then I do apologize. I do however ask for that point to be highlighted since I clearly missed it.

I don't know why you're obsessed with this irrelevant nonsense about Russian language support, but it completely misses the context of playerbase data that's been presented. On top of that, you're making claims here without providing any supporting data.

Where is your data to show that "the increase in Russian population was ... the driving force behind player growth for two years"? I've seen no actual data to support this claim here or anywhere.

Claims that are supported by data, however, is that other games in the genre are still retaining a large portion of the playerbase they gained during lockdowns while ESO is not.

@doesurmindglow

I am not the one that brought up the Russian language support, nor was I saying there was an influx of players due to the Russian-speaking players. I was merely pointing out the very solid fact that we do not have real information to support such claims.

A decline in the player base is pure speculation since we lack actual data to suggest that. Most seem to be basing such assumptions on declines in their guilds, raid groups, and streamers. While it is reflective of small groups in the player base, it is hardly reflective of the game as a whole. Not saying there is not a decline. Just pointing out that we lack actual data of the game's player base to suggest either way.

FeedbackOnly

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

DemonicGoat wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

They've been so neglected for so long that they have come to the conclusion that things will never change. ESO is just for casual questers now.

It makes sense, they(casual questers)are easier to cater to when a server is in maintenance mode,.. pvp and endgame communities that traditionally expect high levels of engagement and a stable,robust game not only are lots of work but the relationship ESO(devs) has with endgame and pvp communities has been strained for years over the lack of follow through when it comes to promises made to those communities and It also appears that the toxicity resulting from that has affected the devs and how they see and treat those communities.

Many of us "casuals" would like some engagement as well.

A group finder with world events and some quests

Amottica

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

DemonicGoat wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

They've been so neglected for so long that they have come to the conclusion that things will never change. ESO is just for casual questers now.

It makes sense, they(casual questers)are easier to cater to when a server is in maintenance mode,.. pvp and endgame communities that traditionally expect high levels of engagement and a stable,robust game not only are lots of work but the relationship ESO(devs) has with endgame and pvp communities has been strained for years over the lack of follow through when it comes to promises made to those communities and It also appears that the toxicity resulting from that has affected the devs and how they see and treat those communities.

Many of us "casuals" would like some engagement as well.

A group finder with world events and some quests

I thought I had seen images of the original group finder, including the ability to group up for zone content. Something like that would work for world events and quests. I wonder why they removed it.

rpa

Amottica wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

DemonicGoat wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

They've been so neglected for so long that they have come to the conclusion that things will never change. ESO is just for casual questers now.

It makes sense, they(casual questers)are easier to cater to when a server is in maintenance mode,.. pvp and endgame communities that traditionally expect high levels of engagement and a stable,robust game not only are lots of work but the relationship ESO(devs) has with endgame and pvp communities has been strained for years over the lack of follow through when it comes to promises made to those communities and It also appears that the toxicity resulting from that has affected the devs and how they see and treat those communities.

Many of us "casuals" would like some engagement as well.

A group finder with world events and some quests

I thought I had seen images of the original group finder, including the ability to group up for zone content. Something like that would work for world events and quests. I wonder why they removed it.

My completely uninformed guess is the fancy stuff did not work properly and they used the good old guillotine method to fix it. That is remove features until what's left works.

gamma71

U35 did kill it for me and all my friends. That's ok we took are money elsewhere. Stupidity will not be rewarded with my money.

MindOfTheSwarm

EnKor wrote: »

yes or no?

it was not only U35 It was all the mountaion of **** ZoS change before it. But now... game is almost death. I Spend 30 minutes easy just to find people for one vTrial. No tanks, no Healers....
and after that time. DPS start living group and go other games too...


so sad...

Update 35 was just the icing on the cake of years of not listening to the community properly. For a long time we’ve asked for bug fixes, Cyrodiil latency issue fixes, new or reworked weapon skill lines.

The have a good track record of DLC story content but players are getting bored with the game due to the lack of alternative skill choices and load outs. The only time this is addressed is with new sets ( something ZoS has stated they want to focus on). But we don’t want new sets, the game is bloated with sets that never get used as is. I don’t play as much anymore because it’s ‘same old same old.’ Thieves Guild and Brotherhood were my favourite dlc’s as they had a different objective. Plus they put far too many focus on new trials and dungeons that follow the same basic format.

They need to shake things up and rock the boat massively if they want to pull back their old players and appeal to a new generation.

My suggestion would be to:

A) Revitalise weapon skill lines and rework destruction staff into three separate lines.

Spellcrafting and/or third morphs that diverge from the base skill role.

C) Content that offers a new way to play. 3 man arenas. 6 Man dungeons etc. Or a 12 man trial that forces the group to split into 3 groups until later. As for story content, a murder mystery story would be quite cool where you would accuse and arrest a suspect based on evidence but with the risk of getting it wrong and condemning innocent people which would shape the story. Another idea would be a legal style story where you represent someone accused of a crime and you have to prove their innocence by visiting crime scenes and gathering evidence and testimonies. (Phoenix Wright Elder Scrolls style lol).

My point is that the game needs shaking up in a big way. And balance updates, occasional new sets and fashion items alone does not maintain a player base by itself for very long. This only works for fast paced games such as Fortnight and Path of Exile.

Slower games need new content in a different way. Such as classes, new skills and storylines that have new objectives that require a new way to play. They probably should hire some new voice actors as well.

DemonicGoat

Amottica wrote: »

A decline in the player base is pure speculation since we lack actual data to suggest that. Most seem to be basing such assumptions on declines in their guilds, raid groups, and streamers. While it is reflective of small groups in the player base, it is hardly reflective of the game as a whole. Not saying there is not a decline. Just pointing out that we lack actual data of the game's player base to suggest either way.

"A decline in the player base is pure speculation since we lack actual data to suggest that." - a decline is pure speculation you say?

"Not saying there is not a decline." So you are saying there is a decline?


While we dont have actual numbers that doesnt make the data any less real. When we examine all the metrics that can be observed over time that "speculative decline in the player base",that you acknowledge is more than just speculation, becomes apparent.

YandereGirlfriend

I very much agree that the available data is unambiguous in what it is saying. There is a deep and growing malaise within the game and its community and it does nobody any good to deny that it exists. The only question that remains is what to do about it. The comparison to Final Fantasy is an apt one as it demonstrates that another path was possible - ESO simply did not take it. There is still time to turn things around but patience and goodwill are, sadly, not infinitely renewable resources.

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

EnKor wrote: »

yes or no?

it was not only U35 It was all the mountaion of **** ZoS change before it. But now... game is almost death. I Spend 30 minutes easy just to find people for one vTrial. No tanks, no Healers....
and after that time. DPS start living group and go other games too...


so sad...

Update 35 was just the icing on the cake of years of not listening to the community properly. For a long time we’ve asked for bug fixes, Cyrodiil latency issue fixes, new or reworked weapon skill lines.

The have a good track record of DLC story content but players are getting bored with the game due to the lack of alternative skill choices and load outs. The only time this is addressed is with new sets ( something ZoS has stated they want to focus on). But we don’t want new sets, the game is bloated with sets that never get used as is. I don’t play as much anymore because it’s ‘same old same old.’ Thieves Guild and Brotherhood were my favourite dlc’s as they had a different objective. Plus they put far too many focus on new trials and dungeons that follow the same basic format.

They need to shake things up and rock the boat massively if they want to pull back their old players and appeal to a new generation.

My suggestion would be to:

A) Revitalise weapon skill lines and rework destruction staff into three separate lines.

Spellcrafting and/or third morphs that diverge from the base skill role.

C) Content that offers a new way to play. 3 man arenas. 6 Man dungeons etc. Or a 12 man trial that forces the group to split into 3 groups until later. As for story content, a murder mystery story would be quite cool where you would accuse and arrest a suspect based on evidence but with the risk of getting it wrong and condemning innocent people which would shape the story. Another idea would be a legal style story where you represent someone accused of a crime and you have to prove their innocence by visiting crime scenes and gathering evidence and testimonies. (Phoenix Wright Elder Scrolls style lol).

My point is that the game needs shaking up in a big way. And balance updates, occasional new sets and fashion items alone does not maintain a player base by itself for very long. This only works for fast paced games such as Fortnight and Path of Exile.

Slower games need new content in a different way. Such as classes, new skills and storylines that have new objectives that require a new way to play. They probably should hire some new voice actors as well.

I love all of these suggestions.

Jaraal

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I love all of these suggestions.

If they can add things without taking away, yes. Most of the player angst comes from ZOS removing things that players have enjoyed for years (achievements, large groups, high Cyro population caps, racial lore, beloved animations, scenery, creatures, etc) and changing the way various sets, skills, glyphs, and so forth work in a negative way.

Addition is always nice.... subtraction, not so much.

Amottica

DemonicGoat wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

A decline in the player base is pure speculation since we lack actual data to suggest that. Most seem to be basing such assumptions on declines in their guilds, raid groups, and streamers. While it is reflective of small groups in the player base, it is hardly reflective of the game as a whole. Not saying there is not a decline. Just pointing out that we lack actual data of the game's player base to suggest either way.

"A decline in the player base is pure speculation since we lack actual data to suggest that." - a decline is pure speculation you say?

"Not saying there is not a decline." So you are saying there is a decline?


While we dont have actual numbers that doesnt make the data any less real. When we examine all the metrics that can be observed over time that "speculative decline in the player base",that you acknowledge is more than just speculation, becomes apparent.

We do not have real data outside of the tiny picture we see of the game, such as our guilds and groups and Steam. Sure, what we see in our guilds is real data, but it is such a small and biased (to our activities) sampling that it is irrelevant. In other words, it is very bad data.

The only real data we have that is fairly unbiased is the Steam Charts. When eliminating the two years concerning COVID we see the game has slightly more players than it did for August, September, October, and for the past 30 days compared to November of 2019. While Steam data is not a perfect sampling, it is far better data than anything that has been presented in this thread.

That is why it is very much speculation that the game's population is in decline. If you have some valid data that is reflective of the player base and actually demonstrates the game is in decline please do present it as the thread could use such valid information

blue_peaceful_Manticore

1. Game have 35k active players and game is great!!!
2. Not even if we pay crowns for tanks we can find them.
3. Update 35 and previus ones did a very very great job!!!!
4. Thank you ZoS for the very nice job.

ps: But, let me hide all player names from ingame print screen cuz rules dont allow me to post ingame print screens with player names.

Shihp00

Depends who you ask. If you're one of those people complaining how "Easy" the game is; then you might like U35 since they made things harder/longer to kill by reducing damage. My friend got stuck in an Arena and I told him they changed the 'Empower' buff(we love 'wrecking blow' so), he Uninstalled ESO on the spot

FeedbackOnly

Amottica wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

DemonicGoat wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

They've been so neglected for so long that they have come to the conclusion that things will never change. ESO is just for casual questers now.

It makes sense, they(casual questers)are easier to cater to when a server is in maintenance mode,.. pvp and endgame communities that traditionally expect high levels of engagement and a stable,robust game not only are lots of work but the relationship ESO(devs) has with endgame and pvp communities has been strained for years over the lack of follow through when it comes to promises made to those communities and It also appears that the toxicity resulting from that has affected the devs and how they see and treat those communities.

Many of us "casuals" would like some engagement as well.

A group finder with world events and some quests

I thought I had seen images of the original group finder, including the ability to group up for zone content. Something like that would work for world events and quests. I wonder why they removed it.

Cause it was probably broken. There used to be a pvp one too. It's easier to unfortunately remove something then fix it.

I think redo on this would greatly help

me_ming

Amottica wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

A guild dying has no bearing on the entire population of a game. What goes on in the very narrow slice of the game that any one of us sees is just that, a very narrow slice of the game. It is hard to find a smaller slice than a guild.

The fact remains that the game is not dead or near its death bed and the majority of players are still here.

Games don't die instantly most of the time, it's a drawn out process with jarring changes that slowly bleed out players; which is exactly the path the game is on right now.

If you truly believe since U35 the game hasn't been losing players and the general feeling of the game from player's perspectives hasn't gotten much worse you must be in some sort of extreme echo chamber.

So far people have been declaring ESO dead or dying since 2014. That is a very slow death.

You are correct that some players will have the perspective that the game has died or is dying or has gotten much worse for them but it is based on the very small segment of the game each of us can see. The example the OP privdes is a tiny 500 member guild. Such things often do not measure up with the realities of the playerbase as a whole.

In fact, the only actual information we have access is the Steam charts. While it is not a true sampling of PC it is unbiased and it does show much more than a tiny 500 member guild and is unbiased. The average number of players for the last three months is greater than it was for the same months in 2019, the last time those months were not affected by COVID. So no, I am not in an echo chamber but I also ignore hyperbole.

I am not saying I like U35. I am merely pointing out that the only real information have about the health of the games population says the game is not even trending towards dying. Please provide unbiased data that shows a large swath of the games population that shows the population of the game is trending downwards significantly since U35.

Regards,

As you already mentioned, Steam's chart "is not a true sampling of PC" whether or not it's unbiased, it's also not proof that the game is not dying. There is no way to tell if the game is dying or not, other than one's personal opinion, and for someone who has played since 2015, I could tell there is less players that I frequently visit like Glenumbra and Wayrest bank, Belkarth, etc than before. Before regardless if the map has expanded, the number of players is noticeably less than say 2017. So YOU cannot tell me that the game is not dying, because you also can't provide data that it isn't, right?