Developer Arrogance and Disrespect to the Player Base is killing this game. (REAL FEEDBACK)

newtinmpls

rauyran wrote: »

It's a game. You choose to play it and choose to pay for it. Why rage against something you choose to do?

My first MMO ever. I recall my utter shock at the first revamp of powers and such, kinda freaked and was gently reassured that this is how MMO's work, stuff does not stay the same.

I've pretty much rolled with it since then. Yeah I do not like many changes, but hey, we got housing after dire warnings it was never gonna happen and housing is totally one of my endgames.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Taking this update as an example, players asked repeatedly how the course of action achieved the stated goals, politely I might add, and not once has this been explained.

All I've seen are a lot of bashing and insulting threads. I wouldn't reply to that either.

Any of these could have garnered a good response. There are more but I couldn't be bothered to search more.

Positive Feedback

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/617169/i-love-u35-thanks-devs-solo-player-no-pvp-no-veteran

Negative Feedback
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/616979/our-group-of-12-hurricane-heralds-couldnt-beat-vdsr-hm-xbox-na#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/616343/u35-the-opposite-of-accessibility#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/611505/why-the-changes-in-update-35-miss-the-mark-and-fail-to-fix-the-issues-that-it-seeks-to-address#latest

Neutral Opening Post

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/615496/your-experience-with-u35

ETA

They instead chose to only create their own posts, with a promised Q&A later that hasn't materialized.

MidniteOwl1913

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Following their vision and benefiting the player base aren't exclusive. It is possible for a change to do both.

Much of the time it wouldn't be possible as the two could easily end up conflicting.

Think about how much you disagree with other players. Now, imagine you also had years of experience looking at things from a developer's perspective in addition to your experiences as a player. Do you really think you are going to see eye to eye with players very much?

For example, one of the games I play has civilian clothes that you can obtain and use. However, the player can't use them in the outfit system because the developers don't like the way the civilian clothes look and don't want players to use the clothes much.

On some games that hire players to join the development team you can literally watch individuals go from complaining about the developers doing a bad job in area x to being the developer people complain about doing a bad job in area x in a few short years.

Benefiting the player base and doing what players (think/say they) want aren't necessarily the same thing.

SilverBride wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Taking this update as an example, players asked repeatedly how the course of action achieved the stated goals, politely I might add, and not once has this been explained.

All I've seen are a lot of bashing and insulting threads. I wouldn't reply to that either.

But they haven't replied to *anything*. No matter how polite. If you have seen a response please post a link.

spartaxoxo

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Following their vision and benefiting the player base aren't exclusive. It is possible for a change to do both.

Much of the time it wouldn't be possible as the two could easily end up conflicting.

Think about how much you disagree with other players. Now, imagine you also had years of experience looking at things from a developer's perspective in addition to your experiences as a player. Do you really think you are going to see eye to eye with players very much?

For example, one of the games I play has civilian clothes that you can obtain and use. However, the player can't use them in the outfit system because the developers don't like the way the civilian clothes look and don't want players to use the clothes much.

On some games that hire players to join the development team you can literally watch individuals go from complaining about the developers doing a bad job in area x to being the developer people complain about doing a bad job in area x in a few short years.

Benefiting the player base and doing what players (think/say they) want aren't necessarily the same thing.

SilverBride wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Taking this update as an example, players asked repeatedly how the course of action achieved the stated goals, politely I might add, and not once has this been explained.

All I've seen are a lot of bashing and insulting threads. I wouldn't reply to that either.

But they haven't replied to *anything*. No matter how polite. If you have seen a response please post a link.

They posted some additional reasoning at the time of the pts for stuff. When they previewed it they also said they had a long term plan on one of their streams. They haven't responded to any individual questions but they said a Q&A was upcoming. That Q&A has yet to happen.

GreatGildersleeve

Then speak to them in a language they understand.

My sub expired August 22 (not renewed)
I logged in for the first time today since patch dropped on console (my platform) to give my wife some AP. You know what? I haven’t missed it.

And with Callisto Protocol on the horizon, I doubt I’ll come back for a while… maybe then they’ll have gotten their act together.

Auldwulfe

Rampeal wrote: »

To be fair, ZoS has listened to the player base. They have all but killed the Healer and Tank roles in PvP and PvE.
The ✌️"Tanks and Heals"✌️ you see mostly now are just a different flavor of DD/Dps running LA/HA. Gone are the days of Roles actually meaning anything. I mean a Tank that stacks health and near infinite blocks ability is mocked and Healers that run percentage healing are scolded for not stacking Spell/Weapon damage.

Only plan I wanna see is ZoS making Heals based off attributes only and Damage based of Weapon/Spell Damage. That would be a great balance to this game. Would bring back importance of Tank and Healing roles.

Sad part is that if you DO try and do a traditional tank ... you struggle elsewhere --- I had one I built up to champion by doing more DPS, but with the plan to always switch to tank, once he was big enough to join groups, and now, I am going back to DPS with him, because you can't get a party to take a straight tank... and the only way I do much outside on my own is to hold things for my companion to kill.

Auldwulfe

Auldwulfe

Tandor wrote: »

DizzyMac wrote: »

i always sit in amazement at the people who, despite see the destruction right across the board, will just take the disrespect thrown at them as customers & part of the community by ZOS..

I mean seriously, if your partner treated you with the same disrespect ZOS treats players, would you still want to be in that relationship?

It's only some players who see it as destruction and disrespect. Based primarily on playstyle, many - probably even most - players simply aren't impacted. Would they show more support to the impacted players if there hadn't been so many people crying wolf, insulting them as toxic casuals who are only playing the game to decorate their houses or pick flowers? Probably.

I am a casual player, and it has impacted me, some -- I swapped over to some new classes, and new play styles - my sorcerer tossed his staff into the recycle bin, and went with sword and dagger combo with surge, and vigor .....
It works.... and I can still complete content, but I also enjoy building and leveling, so this just let me level a couple of different skills.... to me, not a huge deal ... my DK, which was set up as a fire mage with flame and staff, will probably go duel wield for a while, as well ..... and when they change things again, I will adapt.

I can, however, empathize with people that are either more attached to a specific character build, or have been having to change so much, that they are tired of it......

Their feelings are just as valid as mine, or anyone else's ..... so I don't mind hearing them.... I'd rather they did complain, and maintain a passion for this game, as opposed to just going apathetic, or leaving.

I will, definitely, be honest in saying that I cannot afford to pay enough to maintain the servers. And if enough people leave, or just drop subbing, because they feel neglected or disrespected..... then we lose that server, and by extension, the game.

Auldwulfe

luen79rwb17_ESO

This topic is getting so frequent, it's even hitting the loving #ESOFAM official twitter account... [snip]

[edited for bashing]

psychotrip

Kingsindarkness wrote: »

Drammanoth wrote: »

And now the safe haven is in peril...

No...no it's not.

And Voicing a opinion is a far cry from: "lets see how much drama we can stir up today!"

It's just a game because I don't have any scars from fighting that Lich and as close as me and my Guild leader are online I wouldn't know her from Adams housecat if she walked by....and that's by mutually agreed design.


I mean to each his own I cry every time Gandalf falls from the Bridge in Fellowship of the Rings...and I'm a big dude that does quintessential Dude things.

However any time you take a thing and artificially try to make it a completely different thing everyone suffers.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Dude you're behaving just as badly as the people you're criticizing, and magnifying a small minority of players by conflating them with those who are simply voicing their honest concerns and opinions.

You're just blatantly assuming people's motives ("lets see how much drama we can stir up today"!) to confirm your own biases against people you disagree with. I could just as easily assuming you're doing the same thing.

You're accusing others of behaving in bad faith, but you appear to be doing the exact same thing.

Saucy_Jack

Pie King weighing in here.

Most of my gameplay for the last few years has focused on four aspects of the game, in no particular order: housing, fashion, trading, and throwing pies. These are the things I find enjoyable; these are the things I spend my time on.

In past, there have been numerous exploits that have allowed people to acquire millions of mats and thousands of crowns in illicit ways. Every time they happen, I personally get upset, because that sort of thing has a direct impact on the activities I focus on (except throwing pies, though the fact that I STILL have to rely on inventory-clogging consumables for that instead of a throwing-pie memento like the mudball is an INSULT, ZOS. Ahem.)

So with that said, when people get up in arms over changes to the gear, or skills, or mechanics, I tend to take a backseat, because it doesn't affect me. But I can at least understand and empathize with where they're coming from.

I DO understand that there's a difference between outright exploits and mechanics/skills/gear changing because the devs coded them that way in an update. But especially when a) parts of the playerbase have relied on their working knowledge of those mechanics/gear/skills and b) the pre-patch dev communication is largely non-existent before sweeping changes, I can understand why players would get bitter about it over time.

Agenericname

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

Pie King weighing in here.

Most of my gameplay for the last few years has focused on four aspects of the game, in no particular order: housing, fashion, trading, and throwing pies. These are the things I find enjoyable; these are the things I spend my time on.

In past, there have been numerous exploits that have allowed people to acquire millions of mats and thousands of crowns in illicit ways. Every time they happen, I personally get upset, because that sort of thing has a direct impact on the activities I focus on (except throwing pies, though the fact that I STILL have to rely on inventory-clogging consumables for that instead of a throwing-pie memento like the mudball is an INSULT, ZOS. Ahem.)

So with that said, when people get up in arms over changes to the gear, or skills, or mechanics, I tend to take a backseat, because it doesn't affect me. But I can at least understand and empathize with where they're coming from.

I DO understand that there's a difference between outright exploits and mechanics/skills/gear changing because the devs coded them that way in an update. But especially when a) parts of the playerbase have relied on their working knowledge of those mechanics/gear/skills and b) the pre-patch dev communication is largely non-existent before sweeping changes, I can understand why players would get bitter about it over time.

It's relatable. It would be kind of like ZOS changing pies to cupcakes and giving them a sparkler animation instead of pie. It would make throwing beignets more appealing after years of throwing pies.

Hurbster

Some nice bloke gave me an entire island in the other game I'm playing so I'm good.

One of the reasons I've not come back is that the Dev comments just give me WoW dev flashbacks during BFA and Shadowbringers. And now they are getting the 'kinda, sort of giving the players what they want in the most begrudging way possible' expansion in Dragonflight.

Just waiting for a 'cut the cord' comment from an ESO dev about the constant changes.

The problem is, why should the developers change the way they do the game? The yearly expansion cadence obviously works (even if it is creatively bereft of new ideas) and the shop is designed for maximum wallet-raiding. Want a new mount? Get yer money out.

And as long as the money men are happy...

Look, what I'm saying is don't be rude (or polite as they never bother replying to those either), if you are not happy, just leave. Vote with your wallet and your feet (feetwallets?) and keep an eye on what's happening via the official forums, because why on earth would they not keep us fully informed of all the upcoming changes and information we need on those, right?


Right?

LikiLoki

It seems to me that most of the discontent is caused by the fact that ZOS has reduced resources for this game and sprayed funds on other projects. The employees who stayed with us do not have the opportunity to respond to all the requests of the community, but they try to do their best

Deter1UK

DizzyMac wrote: »

I mean seriously, if your partner treated you with the same disrespect ZOS treats players, would you still want to be in that relationship?

I'm retired now, so I'm old enough to remember when corporations looked at local small businesses and decided that the "personal relationship" was the way to go in order to annihilate the high street without the customers getting upset.

I remember when this ghastly idea wended it's way across the pond to the UK.

Dont be fooled, a corporate business is not your Boyfriend or your Mother or your Auntie - you do not have any kind of personal relationship with them - not ever.

What's worse is that large corporate business instructs their staff to try and build said relationships, and they do, and they believe in what they are doing and then they, the staff, and their customers discover that when it all goes belly-up and everything falls apart that the corporation and their shareholders actually never really meant it in the first place.

So don't fall for it.

If you want 'personal' buy local.

Here endeth todays lesson.

Xeres14

Well to me the arrogant part is this idea of changing the way things work this late into the game. All that's going to happen is you're going to drive people away. A change like this is in no way bringing in players. No one's sitting there looking at these patch notes and thinking "well I was on the fence, but now is the right time to finally try ESO". And I suspect they know that. So who was these changes intended for? New players? Please. That's what they say, but that's not the real target of the changes. The devs have their vision of the game but don't want to come out and just say that. However it's as tone deaf as Blizzard saying no one wanted vanilla servers as they shut down third party vanilla servers with THOUSANDS of people playing it.

SaffronCitrusflower

SilverBride wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Taking this update as an example, players asked repeatedly how the course of action achieved the stated goals, politely I might add, and not once has this been explained.

All I've seen are a lot of bashing and insulting threads. I wouldn't reply to that either.

I've seen a lot of people quitting the game and many more cancelling their subs.

SaffronCitrusflower

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

DizzyMac wrote: »

i always sit in amazement at the people who, despite see the destruction right across the board, will just take the disrespect thrown at them as customers & part of the community by ZOS..

I mean seriously, if your partner treated you with the same disrespect ZOS treats players, would you still want to be in that relationship?

It's only some players who see it as destruction and disrespect. Based primarily on playstyle, many - probably even most - players simply aren't impacted. Would they show more support to the impacted players if there hadn't been so many people crying wolf, insulting them as toxic casuals who are only playing the game to decorate their houses or pick flowers? Probably.

I am a casual player, and it has impacted me, some -- I swapped over to some new classes, and new play styles - my sorcerer tossed his staff into the recycle bin, and went with sword and dagger combo with surge, and vigor .....
It works.... and I can still complete content, but I also enjoy building and leveling, so this just let me level a couple of different skills.... to me, not a huge deal ... my DK, which was set up as a fire mage with flame and staff, will probably go duel wield for a while, as well ..... and when they change things again, I will adapt.

I can, however, empathize with people that are either more attached to a specific character build, or have been having to change so much, that they are tired of it......

Their feelings are just as valid as mine, or anyone else's ..... so I don't mind hearing them.... I'd rather they did complain, and maintain a passion for this game, as opposed to just going apathetic, or leaving.

I will, definitely, be honest in saying that I cannot afford to pay enough to maintain the servers. And if enough people leave, or just drop subbing, because they feel neglected or disrespected..... then we lose that server, and by extension, the game.

Auldwulfe

Sounds like it's up to ZOS to do a better job of listening to the customer base so they don't lose too many subs then.

Deter1UK

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Nothing is permanent in this game.

If you enjoy super-casual play -- and I do -- that can be OK. But being serious about the game is not a good bet.

‘Super-casual … love it!

I play almost every day and I’m not mad about the term ‘casual’ because I don’t do high end stuff but Super Casual , ok , yup that’s me.

Well done that person!

warich

I'm of the view point that their communication drastically needs to be improved. More in-depth explanation of each change (like what the FFXIV devs give on challenge adjustments!) would be super helpful. Between that and getting rid of the "knee-jerk reaction" comments from a front facing employee and the narrative pitting players of differing skill levels against each other, there needs to be changes.

I think there also needs to be consistency in how they enforce their views. For example: the whole point of a lot of changes recently have been to make the game accessible and allow players to play how they want, yet the most recent update not only destroyed a paid class, but also links one of that class's (warden) main skills to a specific weapon. It's straight up contradictory.