PrincessOfThieves wrote: »James-Wayne wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total
Totally agree. I see less people complaining about fake DD no idea why
Because it's not a thing, just a silly red herring.
There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously just like there are real tanks and real healers who are not very good at their role.
Being a liar and cheating the system to jump the queue is a whole different issue.
It absolutely is a thing. I queued for vet Dread Cellar the other day, and had a dd just spamming bow light attacks with a skill or two every 10 or so attacks. And they weren't even low cp.
How can someone be called a dd if they're doing less damage than a healer?
The problem is no one is there to teach new players. The story don´t give you anything in that direction, same goes for the role you thoose. There are youtubers out there, but they mostly focus on gear in the upper levels.
ESO don´t have a teaching system or leveling system, which will let them learn an grow. All those important aspects is thrown into the hands of guilds (guildsmates), who have enough of their own. There is no one these players can turn to and get the attention needed.
Of cause this is just the surface, but this is where zos have to start.
Hasenpfote wrote: »The bigger issue in this game are fake dps. There are way to many fake dps, so you *have* to play as fake tank/heal to deliver a tiny amount of damage. Many dps do 5k dps and less while "fake tanks" and "fake healer" do 30k+ dps and still can heal the group or keep the control of the encounter.
I dont go as full tank in a dungeon anymore, only as "fake tank" and most time i'm top 1 of dps and still can keep the boss under my control.
So the issue are not "fake tanks" and "fake healer", its clearly a fake dps issue that leads to this thread.
PrincessOfThieves wrote: »PrincessOfThieves wrote: »James-Wayne wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total
Totally agree. I see less people complaining about fake DD no idea why
Because it's not a thing, just a silly red herring.
There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously just like there are real tanks and real healers who are not very good at their role.
Being a liar and cheating the system to jump the queue is a whole different issue.
It absolutely is a thing. I queued for vet Dread Cellar the other day, and had a dd just spamming bow light attacks with a skill or two every 10 or so attacks. And they weren't even low cp.
How can someone be called a dd if they're doing less damage than a healer?
The problem is no one is there to teach new players. The story don´t give you anything in that direction, same goes for the role you thoose. There are youtubers out there, but they mostly focus on gear in the upper levels.
ESO don´t have a teaching system or leveling system, which will let them learn an grow. All those important aspects is thrown into the hands of guilds (guildsmates), who have enough of their own. There is no one these players can turn to and get the attention needed.
Of cause this is just the surface, but this is where zos have to start.
That's true and I 100% agree that the game needs better tutorials.
Extremely low damage is one of the biggest reasons why there's not enough real tanks and healers in randoms. I think low-ish dps is okay when the person is at least trying to do a rotation (and the dungeon isn't very difficult), but spamming light attacks in vet dlcs is just kinda lazy.
AlterBlika wrote: »Elendir2am wrote: »@kurbbie_s
I can slot Inner Fire, do basic tanking and still do my job as DD. I do it occasionally, when I get fake tank. [snip]
The fact that you can do "basic tanking" as a dd proves that you don't need a tank in this content. Why would I bother with actual tanking when there's nothing to "tank"? People are just afraid to take a hit and realize that it's not as scary as they think. [snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]
Elendir2am wrote: »@kurbbie_s
I can slot Inner Fire, do basic tanking and still do my job as DD. I do it occasionally, when I get fake tank. [snip]
Na not correct. What makes qualifie as a tank is your resistance and health. The tank control the battlefiels and fakes aren´t able to do that in a good way. That said. I see you and your playstyle as a victim of bad role integration, and add to that a very selfish way of playing by ignoring other roles.
There are people out there only playing support roles, because they like it that way, or got tired of playing dd. To play as a tank or healer and put it very basic. You better invite your, whole family into ESO. I play another mmo, where your playstyle isn´t possible. It sort of puts a damper on things in a non toxic way, and all are happy to welcome a new player.
You see. When some people is getting too much power (dps) they use it in a very negative way. Please pay attention to, what I wrote above, about being a victim. Zos shouldn´t have gone as fare as they did, but it happened. Why ? I don´t know.
What I know is, people are excluded because of their roles in content, because some feel they are not needed. To boil it down to it´s bare minimum, tanks and healers do also need gear, crystals and skill points, plus their pledges. You get good at your role by playing in all content.
I want to remind you again. Not all people want to play dd and some are getting told to role out one if they wanna follow.
Happy hunting
[edited to remove quote]
whats funnier thank queing as a fake tank? Soloing the boss while everyone else is dead crying about you not being a tank.
It’s not funny for the other group mates who want to do a dungeon but can’t because they aren’t being ressed and died due to a heavy attack. Not everyone in normals know what they’re doing. New players need real tanks and real healers to learn how to do dungeons and become better… experiences like this make people quit. Also, even as someone who is more experienced, it’s extremely frustrating not getting use of backstabber because the tank isn’t taunting. If I wanted to tank, I would’ve queued as tank.
if youre dying to a heavy attack you arent paying attention to mechanics and would have died regardless of if there was a tank or not.. Really easy especially with addons to dodge a heavy attack. Like i was saying, the skill level is very very low here. Its truly insane.
Elendir2am wrote: »AlterBlika wrote: »Elendir2am wrote: »@kurbbie_s
I can slot Inner Fire, do basic tanking and still do my job as DD. I do it occasionally, when I get fake tank. [snip]
The fact that you can do "basic tanking" as a dd proves that you don't need a tank in this content. Why would I bother with actual tanking when there's nothing to "tank"? People are just afraid to take a hit and realize that it's not as scary as they think. [snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]
There are new players, who belong to normal dungeon and who need proper support to learn game properly. Fact, that some of us can do it solo don`t mean, that they don't deserve proper tank.Elendir2am wrote: »@kurbbie_s
I can slot Inner Fire, do basic tanking and still do my job as DD. I do it occasionally, when I get fake tank. [snip]
Na not correct. What makes qualifie as a tank is your resistance and health. The tank control the battlefiels and fakes aren´t able to do that in a good way. That said. I see you and your playstyle as a victim of bad role integration, and add to that a very selfish way of playing by ignoring other roles.
There are people out there only playing support roles, because they like it that way, or got tired of playing dd. To play as a tank or healer and put it very basic. You better invite your, whole family into ESO. I play another mmo, where your playstyle isn´t possible. It sort of puts a damper on things in a non toxic way, and all are happy to welcome a new player.
You see. When some people is getting too much power (dps) they use it in a very negative way. Please pay attention to, what I wrote above, about being a victim. Zos shouldn´t have gone as fare as they did, but it happened. Why ? I don´t know.
What I know is, people are excluded because of their roles in content, because some feel they are not needed. To boil it down to it´s bare minimum, tanks and healers do also need gear, crystals and skill points, plus their pledges. You get good at your role by playing in all content.
I want to remind you again. Not all people want to play dd and some are getting told to role out one if they wanna follow.
Happy hunting
[edited to remove quote]
You should read my post again.
I go in dungeon with role DD.
I see, that tank is fake and boss chase low level DD around.
I slot taunt and keep bosses on place in all AoE.
Can you tell me, why should I personally invite my family and who else?
If you fake tank or fake healer, it is solely to skip the line. There is no excuse you can make, because if there was no line, no one would do it except guilds that are running low level dungeons with a bunch of DPS to go fast.
The other day (pre U35 so a couple weeks ago) I was running random normals on my templar. I don't fake healer or tank, and do play DPS. It took maybe 2 minutes to queue. When we got in, it was Depths of Malatar. turns out, both the Tank and the Healer were fake. They wiped against the first boss twice, then left. Had to carry the other DPS through the dungeon with a ring of the pale order. This kind of stuff is far too common. The wait time as a DPS can vary between 30 seconds and 5 minutes, either way, it's not a long wait.
Another story from a couple days ago. A low level guildie asked the guild if someone wanted to run normals with him. He's fairly new to the game, no CP yet and only level 35. I say sure, and he parties me... then says for me to queue as a healer while he queues as a tank because it's faster that way. I tell him I don't fake tank or healer, and to just queue. He's upset that it'll take forever to queue if I don't fake healer (he's fake tanking). I tell him to queue, immediately get in (since he's take tanking). It's FG1. He immediately runs ahead, skipping all the mobs and even the first boss. I'm with the rest of the group, low levels, and I'm not far behind while killing all the mobs and even the first boss. He wipes against the mobs before the second boss and leaves the group.
That is a story of we're teaching low levels the wrong things here. We should NOT be teaching them that it's ok to do this ***.
Did have a funny moment in that dungeon, though. Everyone except the guy I entered with was khajiit. He got the bug where, when you queue into a dungeon, you don't get teleported to the dungeon. So me and the other two port in and it's about a minute before the other guy got in, and we all just stood there before the first set of mobs, in a circle, jumping for a minute straight while we waited for the guy. Was kinda funny.
PrincessOfThieves wrote: »James-Wayne wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total
Totally agree. I see less people complaining about fake DD no idea why
Because it's not a thing, just a silly red herring.
There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously just like there are real tanks and real healers who are not very good at their role.
Being a liar and cheating the system to jump the queue is a whole different issue.
It absolutely is a thing. I queued for vet Dread Cellar the other day, and had a dd just spamming bow light attacks with a skill or two every 10 or so attacks. And they weren't even low cp.
How can someone be called a dd if they're doing less damage than a healer?
PrincessOfThieves wrote: »James-Wayne wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total
Totally agree. I see less people complaining about fake DD no idea why
Because it's not a thing, just a silly red herring.
There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously just like there are real tanks and real healers who are not very good at their role.
Being a liar and cheating the system to jump the queue is a whole different issue.
It absolutely is a thing. I queued for vet Dread Cellar the other day, and had a dd just spamming bow light attacks with a skill or two every 10 or so attacks. And they weren't even low cp.
How can someone be called a dd if they're doing less damage than a healer?
See above "There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously." There ARE terrible players in this game.
A fake role in this game is done to gain an advantage in the PUG queue. Fake healers and tanks are a thing because you get a group faster - instantly usually in fact. Queuing as DPS means you have a 10 minute wait on average. Faking DPS to get in a group slower would be brain-dead level stupid.
Faking roles is all about jumping to the front of the queue. This is why I don't buy the pathetic "fake DPS" red herrings many of you think is a good counter argument to rationalize being a lying queue jumper.
PrincessOfThieves wrote: »James-Wayne wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total
Totally agree. I see less people complaining about fake DD no idea why
Because it's not a thing, just a silly red herring.
There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously just like there are real tanks and real healers who are not very good at their role.
Being a liar and cheating the system to jump the queue is a whole different issue.
It absolutely is a thing. I queued for vet Dread Cellar the other day, and had a dd just spamming bow light attacks with a skill or two every 10 or so attacks. And they weren't even low cp.
How can someone be called a dd if they're doing less damage than a healer?
The problem is no one is there to teach new players. The story don´t give you anything in that direction, same goes for the role you thoose. There are youtubers out there, but they mostly focus on gear in the upper levels.
ESO don´t have a teaching system or leveling system, which will let them learn an grow. All those important aspects is thrown into the hands of guilds (guildsmates), who have enough of their own. There is no one these players can turn to and get the attention needed.
Of cause this is just the surface, but this is where zos have to start.
Hasenpfote wrote: »The bigger issue in this game are fake dps. There are way to many fake dps, so you *have* to play as fake tank/heal to deliver a tiny amount of damage. Many dps do 5k dps and less while "fake tanks" and "fake healer" do 30k+ dps and still can heal the group or keep the control of the encounter.
I dont go as full tank in a dungeon anymore, only as "fake tank" and most time i'm top 1 of dps and still can keep the boss under my control.
So the issue are not "fake tanks" and "fake healer", its clearly a fake dps issue that leads to this thread.
StarOfElyon wrote: »All the more reason to get into veteran content where this behavior, unless coordinated, is very unwelcome. Most people just want to run the normal dungeons (often random for these people) as fast as humanly possible because they’re farming transmutes. I honestly welcome it in normals because more dps means faster completion of the random normal 🤷🏻♂️
BUT it is very irritating for new players who don’t understand this, understand mechanics and who want to quest. 100%
It is a serious problem. Some can't take a hit and are dying in trash pulls, leading to them quiting before they reach the boss. It's also a problem caused by the difficulty gap in content. Normal dungeons are so easy that tanking is optional and so players don't learn how to properly tank. And then the vet content is so much harder for tanks that it is like running straight into a brick wall for some of them, and so they either don't bother trying or they try and fail. Which is the reason why tanks for vet dungeons are so hard to find. I've had to switch from DD to tank sometimes just to get through a dungeon.
This situation can be improved if normal content made tanking harder. Maybe that will also discourage fake tanking.
the people dying arent the ones who que as fake tank. The ones dying are the people who need a tank.
StarOfElyon wrote: »All the more reason to get into veteran content where this behavior, unless coordinated, is very unwelcome. Most people just want to run the normal dungeons (often random for these people) as fast as humanly possible because they’re farming transmutes. I honestly welcome it in normals because more dps means faster completion of the random normal 🤷🏻♂️
BUT it is very irritating for new players who don’t understand this, understand mechanics and who want to quest. 100%
It is a serious problem. Some can't take a hit and are dying in trash pulls, leading to them quiting before they reach the boss. It's also a problem caused by the difficulty gap in content. Normal dungeons are so easy that tanking is optional and so players don't learn how to properly tank. And then the vet content is so much harder for tanks that it is like running straight into a brick wall for some of them, and so they either don't bother trying or they try and fail. Which is the reason why tanks for vet dungeons are so hard to find. I've had to switch from DD to tank sometimes just to get through a dungeon.
This situation can be improved if normal content made tanking harder. Maybe that will also discourage fake tanking.
you dont even need a tank in normal. You can literally just stand in the red and never die.
If you fake tank or fake healer, it is solely to skip the line. There is no excuse you can make, because if there was no line, no one would do it except guilds that are running low level dungeons with a bunch of DPS to go fast.
The other day (pre U35 so a couple weeks ago) I was running random normals on my templar. I don't fake healer or tank, and do play DPS. It took maybe 2 minutes to queue. When we got in, it was Depths of Malatar. turns out, both the Tank and the Healer were fake. They wiped against the first boss twice, then left. Had to carry the other DPS through the dungeon with a ring of the pale order. This kind of stuff is far too common. The wait time as a DPS can vary between 30 seconds and 5 minutes, either way, it's not a long wait.
Another story from a couple days ago. A low level guildie asked the guild if someone wanted to run normals with him. He's fairly new to the game, no CP yet and only level 35. I say sure, and he parties me... then says for me to queue as a healer while he queues as a tank because it's faster that way. I tell him I don't fake tank or healer, and to just queue. He's upset that it'll take forever to queue if I don't fake healer (he's fake tanking). I tell him to queue, immediately get in (since he's take tanking). It's FG1. He immediately runs ahead, skipping all the mobs and even the first boss. I'm with the rest of the group, low levels, and I'm not far behind while killing all the mobs and even the first boss. He wipes against the mobs before the second boss and leaves the group.
That is a story of we're teaching low levels the wrong things here. We should NOT be teaching them that it's ok to do this ***.
Did have a funny moment in that dungeon, though. Everyone except the guy I entered with was khajiit. He got the bug where, when you queue into a dungeon, you don't get teleported to the dungeon. So me and the other two port in and it's about a minute before the other guy got in, and we all just stood there before the first set of mobs, in a circle, jumping for a minute straight while we waited for the guy. Was kinda funny.
PrincessOfThieves wrote: »PrincessOfThieves wrote: »James-Wayne wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total
Totally agree. I see less people complaining about fake DD no idea why
Because it's not a thing, just a silly red herring.
There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously just like there are real tanks and real healers who are not very good at their role.
Being a liar and cheating the system to jump the queue is a whole different issue.
It absolutely is a thing. I queued for vet Dread Cellar the other day, and had a dd just spamming bow light attacks with a skill or two every 10 or so attacks. And they weren't even low cp.
How can someone be called a dd if they're doing less damage than a healer?
See above "There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously." There ARE terrible players in this game.
A fake role in this game is done to gain an advantage in the PUG queue. Fake healers and tanks are a thing because you get a group faster - instantly usually in fact. Queuing as DPS means you have a 10 minute wait on average. Faking DPS to get in a group slower would be brain-dead level stupid.
Faking roles is all about jumping to the front of the queue. This is why I don't buy the pathetic "fake DPS" red herrings many of you think is a good counter argument to rationalize being a lying queue jumper.
I'm not "queue jumping". I'm just saying that people who queue as dds and don't even try to do meaningful dps (at least more than an average healer) aren't really dds, they're just people who are either clueless or looking for a free carry. Dd means damage dealer, not just someone who's not a healer nor a tank.
These people are the reason why healers and tanks try to avoid solo queues. It is just not fun to play when you get 2 of those.
And I find it really weird that dds are almost never judged the way support players are.
Ok here is a permanent solution to this:
(PS: Numbers are assumption but to give the idea...)
If you select Tank Role: your Weapon and Spell Damage set to 100 (no matter the set/cp/skills you got, flat line 100)
If you select Healer Role: your Weapon and Spell Damage set to 400, Cannot taunt
If you select DD: Cannot Taunt
Now it will be a mess for the first times, people will eventually give up fake roles and try to learn and improve...
my2¹⁄₁₀₀
PrincessOfThieves wrote: »James-Wayne wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total
Totally agree. I see less people complaining about fake DD no idea why
Because it's not a thing, just a silly red herring.
There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously just like there are real tanks and real healers who are not very good at their role.
Being a liar and cheating the system to jump the queue is a whole different issue.
It absolutely is a thing. I queued for vet Dread Cellar the other day, and had a dd just spamming bow light attacks with a skill or two every 10 or so attacks. And they weren't even low cp.
How can someone be called a dd if they're doing less damage than a healer?
See above "There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously." There ARE terrible players in this game.
A fake role in this game is done to gain an advantage in the PUG queue. Fake healers and tanks are a thing because you get a group faster - instantly usually in fact. Queuing as DPS means you have a 10 minute wait on average. Faking DPS to get in a group slower would be brain-dead level stupid.
Faking roles is all about jumping to the front of the queue. This is why I don't buy the pathetic "fake DPS" red herrings many of you think is a good counter argument to rationalize being a lying queue jumper.
StarOfElyon wrote: »PrincessOfThieves wrote: »PrincessOfThieves wrote: »James-Wayne wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total
Totally agree. I see less people complaining about fake DD no idea why
Because it's not a thing, just a silly red herring.
There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously just like there are real tanks and real healers who are not very good at their role.
Being a liar and cheating the system to jump the queue is a whole different issue.
It absolutely is a thing. I queued for vet Dread Cellar the other day, and had a dd just spamming bow light attacks with a skill or two every 10 or so attacks. And they weren't even low cp.
How can someone be called a dd if they're doing less damage than a healer?
See above "There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously." There ARE terrible players in this game.
A fake role in this game is done to gain an advantage in the PUG queue. Fake healers and tanks are a thing because you get a group faster - instantly usually in fact. Queuing as DPS means you have a 10 minute wait on average. Faking DPS to get in a group slower would be brain-dead level stupid.
Faking roles is all about jumping to the front of the queue. This is why I don't buy the pathetic "fake DPS" red herrings many of you think is a good counter argument to rationalize being a lying queue jumper.
I'm not "queue jumping". I'm just saying that people who queue as dds and don't even try to do meaningful dps (at least more than an average healer) aren't really dds, they're just people who are either clueless or looking for a free carry. Dd means damage dealer, not just someone who's not a healer nor a tank.
These people are the reason why healers and tanks try to avoid solo queues. It is just not fun to play when you get 2 of those.
And I find it really weird that dds are almost never judged the way support players are.
I've tanked for groups where literally everyone was dying repeatedly and doing dookie damage. When we got on party, I actually learned that one of the DDs was an older woman (sounded old enough to be my mom). I'm patient as hell so I stuck with them and we eventually cleared that vet dungeon. It's not fun sometimes but in order for people to advance in this game, the more experienced players must be willing to carry groups and teach others. If people want to be selfish, they shouldn't play an MMORPG.
The honest truth is that the game just isn't that hard for most of us where we see the need to put restrictions on what would otherwise just be a care free gaming experience.
Others that struggle or just have a very inflexible way to do things may want to bring things like "etiquette" into the discussion. But as they are complaining that others are ruining their gaming experience they are actively seeking to destroy what these so called fake tanks and healers obviously find fun.
I don't really think either side is obligated to accommodate the other. What makes the most sense is for the people that care less and play the way they want to keep pugging normals as they are... And the people that have a problem with it, whether their adherence to the traditional mmo group is more idyllic or not, should group up into pve guilds and form their own groups.
It never ceases to amaze me how people will cry beg and steal to force others to please them but they won't take the steps to be in charge of their own happiness.
PrincessOfThieves wrote: »James-Wayne wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »I see fake DD way more often than fake support, in both proportion and total
Totally agree. I see less people complaining about fake DD no idea why
Because it's not a thing, just a silly red herring.
There are players who are not as good as others at doing damage obviously just like there are real tanks and real healers who are not very good at their role.
Being a liar and cheating the system to jump the queue is a whole different issue.
It absolutely is a thing. I queued for vet Dread Cellar the other day, and had a dd just spamming bow light attacks with a skill or two every 10 or so attacks. And they weren't even low cp.
How can someone be called a dd if they're doing less damage than a healer?