The amount of fake tanks and fake healers is ridiculous

WinterHeart626

Ok, if this is in regards to Vet content, sure I get you.
If in regards to normal dungeons, then no. You don’t need a healer. You also don’t need a tank.
I’ve been doing daily randoms, as any combination of ALL THREE rolls.
And you know what. The only way to fill that last slot is with a fake healer. It causes no problems, I’ve been rolling the DLC dungeons for stickerbooking, I may have encountered some of you if you play XBOX NA, I can tell you now, I’ve never had so much fun.
You know what that word means? Right??
Yeah we want to grab our mats and special boxes.
There’s even players who want their quests ( I slow down for these ones, no one likes losing skill point + exp chance), it’s even enjoyable showing newer players mechs.

Yes, we all get it, you don’t like it, but it’s how it is, and it’s literally the only way runs are even happening right now. Spent 30 mins queued as DD with partner (also DD), I then switched to tank- bam, run. Enjoy the little things.

Tannus15

I don't get it, just slot inner fire.

swap 1 dot for a taunt because you're good enough to not die to the boss and it keeps the pressure off the people who aren't and find it stressful. then you're not a fake tank, you're a tank.

literally all that is required for a tank is a taunt and don't die. slot the taunt.

AvalonRanger

SizanLopkniht wrote: »

If fake tanks and fake healers are such an issue for you, just make a tank and/or a healer and queue as that role. Then you'll know for sure there will be a true tank or healer in the group.

I run a true tank and queue's are instant and runs are never a problem for me.

Totally agree. But, recently I notice brainless DPS problem also.

When I saw CP2500 DPS die instantly at the "Scalecaller Peak" of first boss. I consider "give up leaving".
And, I actually quit at the second boss of Scalecaller. (I explain about mech for my team mate,
but nobody couldn't act properly.)

Those type of player which include fake healer usually act like brainless follower.
It is meaningless that how much damage burst they can. Because, they can't consider
situation control and team work, and usually very careless. Mostly keep standing AoE
and die so quickly after 10 sec of boss combat starting. Those type of player regard
real combat as just like target dummy training. They can't act like real combat situation.
Mostly very selfish and irresponsible players, I hate them as tank mainly.

Do not be Mr, brainless DPS. If you can't provide damage at the real combat, your damage
amount is same as zero damage, regardless how big damage you can do at the target dummy.

CompM4s

You really don't need a actual healer for normal dungeons. Just slot 1 burst heal to keep pugs alive, so they dont constantly die.

A tank is not needed for normal dungeons either, the DD just needs to slot inner fire. A actual Tank is needed for Vet only. I personally wont take my tank into a normal dungeon just to watch people light attack a boss for 20 minutes.

WinterHeart626

AvalonRanger wrote: »

SizanLopkniht wrote: »

If fake tanks and fake healers are such an issue for you, just make a tank and/or a healer and queue as that role. Then you'll know for sure there will be a true tank or healer in the group.

I run a true tank and queue's are instant and runs are never a problem for me.

Totally agree. But, recently I notice brainless DPS problem also.

When I saw CP2500 DPS die instantly at the "Scalecaller Peak" of first boss. I consider "give up leaving".
And, I actually quit at the second boss of Scalecaller. (I explain about mech for my team mate,
but nobody couldn't act properly.)

Those type of player which include fake healer usually act like brainless follower.
It is meaningless that how much damage burst they can. Because, they can't consider
situation control and team work, and usually very careless. Mostly keep standing AoE
and die so quickly after 10 sec of boss combat starting. Those type of player regard
real combat as just like target dummy training. They can't act like real combat situation.
Mostly very selfish and irresponsible players, I hate them as tank mainly.

Do not be Mr, brainless DPS. If you can't provide damage at the real combat, your damage
amount is same as zero damage, regardless how big damage you can do at the target dummy.

This TBH, saw a guy at CP300 in the tank slot when I was on my healer (gasp, a real healer in a pug!!!) pvp dps, was after a set from cauldron, wanted the arms, considered it, until he went zooming off, and died in a trash mob. Then proceeded AFTER being informed that he’s got to slow down to spam “lol, lmao, etcetera etcetera” during boss fights. He died a few times, I teabagged him and didn’t res him, just focussed on healing the two dps who were following mechs, playing pass the parcel with the boss, and generally being very good well behaved dps.
Mind, I kept bagging while healing, I could have kicked him from the pug, but I figured a clear of shame was more appropriate.

Edit: for clarification, he got off easy. My group when I run with them and I’m learning mechs, if I die to stupid, I get teabags. On healer, if I let a dps die to regular damage (and not ID mechs or overkill damage) I gotta play dead. And get bags. It’s all in good fun, for us at least. For the poor bugger that wanted to play silly, I’m hoping they learnt not to run ahead of the next group.

Vulkunne

svendf wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Elendir2am wrote: »

I am finding one really sad thing during reading this thread:
"You don't need real tank in normal dungeon." and "Players want to do it as fast as possible and prefer DD instead tank therefore".

Why am I finding it sad? Because it shows, how little experience have some players with good tanking.
Do you want your reward for random daily as fast as possible, then you want good tank in your group.

Your DPS with good tank will be 4 times higher, so 4th DD is far from best solution. Tank master not only buffs your damage, make armor of your enemies in potato. They will also stack them in one pile so your AoE will hit all of them.

What do you think is difference in damage of blastbone skeleton, without buff, hitting one enemy without debuff and damage of buffed blastboune skeleton hitting all enemies in room with breach debuff?

No, T+(2DD+H)/(3DD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3DD+H)/4DD

Have years of experience running 4-man groups and all of my tanks contributed generously to damage as much as possible.

Nothing new to see here as there is no substitute for Good DPS. Devs don't like to hear this and some others won't as well but DPS is next to godliness. Besides, I've seen my share of tanks who really provide little or no real value to the group. Case in point, one time I was in Banished Cells and this silly fellow... stands on like a small pillar and he's just sitting there swinging it at the boss, not aggroing the Deadroths, not contributing to damage (or heals even), he's not doing anything just aggroing the nearest Daedroth and maybe the boss when he spawns close. There was no tactical oversight as to how to tackle the adds, there was no real work being done by the tank, to stay alive even, it was all dumped onto the DPS and Healer who could barely stay alive themselves yet alone carry someone not contributing. And this clown was blaming us for the machine breaking down when if he had tried, he should have been doing more, much more.

And I've seen this behavior so many times. If it means less Tanks, which there will still be some around, but sometimes less is more. As for the rest well all I can is we're all probably better off without them anyways.

Could it be that, this tank, where in the process of learning his role ? Anyone asked him ? I often see in this forum, that tanks shouldn´t waste any time in normal dungeons, learning. I see those things happen in another mmo, which have become my main mmo now. It´s so easy to see if they are in a learning process and it´s absolutly ok if he forgot to turn on his tank stance and I pay the price for it on my DD.

In ESO you can´t be really sure if it´s a "tank" or not. I can go into a trial,dungeon or raid and be 100% sure - the three tanks in the raid is tanks, the healers are healers. If it goes wrong it´s a learning process or just bad luck, It´s all nice and fine, we know you are in here to learn.

In ESO it´s the other way around. The tank could very well be a tank listening too those, who say "do vet". You could have been in a group with a PvP, a fake one. One, who is learning and new to the job. One, who is just sick and tired, being out runned by speedy DD´s and a fake healer and now he payed you a visit.

Who is running the game, here ? Who ?

Thank You

Hey svendf, thanks again for your reply.

A detail that I left in the original story, didn't expound on it but something I had said was how he was blaming us for the condition of the group as a whole.

I understand what you're saying and many times I have tried to be reasonable with folks, will continue to do so. As Gandi had said, basically we need to be the change ourselves before we expect the world around us to change. And that was kind of my point and it was, a reason that I invested so much time into 4 man tanking, as well as research and build development at personal expense so that I could provide the best tanking experience possible. Not just for others mind you, I had some things I wanted as well and it made good sense to just get things down to a science and take up a leading role in this enterprise. Which I did and did it well.

Anyways, back to my point, there is a difference between being a student and learning, which involves things like taking notes and asking questions, vs blaming which is behavior not appropriate for a student to engage in and is more becoming someone with knowledge and experience being critical of someone else. Again, a student is there to listen and learn and ask questions and collaborate with other students.

And that is my point when he started casting blame and judgement he put himself to a higher standard than the rest of us. Thus, my standards are higher than his, with a wealth of knowledge, being in the tank role coming from years of experience, including carries as well as fulfilling dps and healer roles as well.

My assessment of this person's behavior, including a demonstrated lack of leadership skills is justified as well as my original assertion that the value of a real tank does not come from simply drawing agro alone and essentially being a burden on your group, which distracts from the overall mission.

Indepth

Well this thread is funny, I should create a new one: "The amount of fake Damage Dealer is hilarious"
Not a troll, really as a tank with only 30k+ dps I do most of the time 85% of the grp damage output..

A side of some dungeon mechanics, it is faster to run solo even in vet mode... that says a lot how sad it is.

Elendir2am

@tmbrinks,

[snip] You should re-evaluate, how much that tanks help you, instead downplaying it. It is simple comparison, how much your DPS increase, if you are hitting 10 enemies (thanks to tank) instead 2 enemies only at once.

The ratio is different through dungeons, 1:3, 3:10, 1:5. Mobs in dungeons are implemented in way, so they can't easyly burn through them. They standt by walls, hide behind rocks, arrive after start of combat. DDs alone need to hunt them one by one. DDs with tank can kill them all together.

[edited for baiting]

Ragnarok0130

CompM4s wrote: »

You really don't need a actual healer for normal dungeons. Just slot 1 burst heal to keep pugs alive, so they dont constantly die.

A tank is not needed for normal dungeons either, the DD just needs to slot inner fire. A actual Tank is needed for Vet only. I personally wont take my tank into a normal dungeon just to watch people light attack a boss for 20 minutes.

I'm a healer and the number of times people really need healers in RNDs is not small. Many people in dungeons have no idea how to do their role, and most importantly how not to stand in stupid. For good measure they seem to like to tunnel too. Many times these are inexperienced low level players, sometimes higher CP players who are likely inexperienced at group content but unless it's just a horrible time I try to drag them through the content as best I can.

Sometimes it's not even the aforementioned issues causing the extreme need for heals but because we have a fake tank who runs all over the dungeon trying to avoid aggro instead of tank it and control it so the DPS are getting slaughtered. If the fake tank slots a taunt and controls the boss I can heal him through it, but normally he just runs around like a headless chicken killing teammates.

Ryori729

My original point stands. People are expecting top-tier performances out of the tank and healer every time, and have zero expectations on DPS.

Haven't seen anyone ask for top tier from the tank or healer. A taunt or a group heal isn't asking for top tier.

But this is an actual example of a fake tank I ran into. We pulled Depths because they were level 45. 18K health and a bow. This was a double combo of fake tank and poor DPS.

To your point, I have seen some very odd DPS too. The heavy-only attacker . Although I've seen a couple of tanks (took the slot and had high health) not taunt and just heavy attack too so, So again a double dip of a tank not tanking and not DPSing either.

And my experience is normal, not Vet. On Vet I can understand that bad DPS is more of a problem. But with this event, I've seen such bad play from all slots that I swapped to just doing some pugs on a dd-tank (queue as a dd, but very tanky). I just walk through killing everything that attacks me then rez everybody when I get them. Soloing on my main DPS toon is faster than a lot of these speed pugs if I was just farming boxes.

Thus my opinion it is not the "fake" anything that is the problem. It's treating the PUG queue as if it is there for you and not the other three players also.

ForzaRammer

Indepth wrote: »

Well this thread is funny, I should create a new one: "The amount of fake Damage Dealer is hilarious"
Not a troll, really as a tank with only 30k+ dps I do most of the time 85% of the grp damage output..

A side of some dungeon mechanics, it is faster to run solo even in vet mode... that says a lot how sad it is.

You should make that post. Try mimic wording of this op too.

AvalonRanger

WinterHeart626 wrote: »

Ok, if this is in regards to Vet content, sure I get you.
If in regards to normal dungeons, then no. You don’t need a healer. You also don’t need a tank.
I’ve been doing daily randoms, as any combination of ALL THREE rolls.
And you know what. The only way to fill that last slot is with a fake healer. It causes no problems, I’ve been rolling the DLC dungeons for stickerbooking, I may have encountered some of you if you play XBOX NA, I can tell you now, I’ve never had so much fun.
You know what that word means? Right??
Yeah we want to grab our mats and special boxes.
There’s even players who want their quests ( I slow down for these ones, no one likes losing skill point + exp chance), it’s even enjoyable showing newer players mechs.

Yes, we all get it, you don’t like it, but it’s how it is, and it’s literally the only way runs are even happening right now. Spent 30 mins queued as DD with partner (also DD), I then switched to tank- bam, run. Enjoy the little things.

"this is in regards to Vet content, sure I get you."

Still bad guy keep doing 100% fake tank and fake healer in random Vet group mission "intentionally".
I saw 100% fake tank(no taunt and fragile) in the BC2 Vet yesterday. Totally stupid.

Please remove quick leaving penalty. Why fair player suffer stupid penalty?

The_Boggart

Most DPS are magic based, OK for them to use up the stamina , Tanks are stam based normally, not much use getting to a boss if stamina used up

OsUfi

Dungeons are not quicker with the amount of piddling dire fake tanks in the RND/Pledge queues.

Started a new character and have been running dungeons again recently for the skill points. God above, sweet baby jebus, every time I set foot inside an RND I'm reminded of how ruddy awful this side of the PvE community is. 7 out of 10 runs there's a fake tank or no tank as they left. They die even in normal mode. 3 runs of CoA2 last night the tank left immediately. I get it, you want speed runs, but you're wasting everyone's time by queuing repeatedly. Finished it with companions in the end.

Once again, I'm running a healer, in light armour, with some resist buffs, 30k health, and a pull taunt.

It genuinely boggles my mind that the PvE community cry out about the PvP community being toxic when this shiznazz is going on in dungeons constantly.

Oh god, I fricking hate fake tanks.

OsUfi

After making the above post I hopped into Elden Hollow 2 normal for another skill point quest. We had a fake tank, level 37, no taunt, died to basic mobs, did less DPS than myself, a healer in RP'ish gear. When called out on it, he declared "I ain't wasting time in the DPS queue." Cool. So the selfish expletive wasted all of our time instead.

The argument "4 DPS is faster" does not wash when 9 times out of 10 the fake tank or healer actively hinder the group.

Once I have all the dungeon skill points on the new character, I will not set foot in a 4 man PUG dungeon again. The ESO dungeon experience is one of the worst in every MMO I have ever played, and I've been playing them since the 90's.

Oh god, I fricking hate fake tanks.

N00BxV1

This has been happening for years... And it will never change as long as zos allows it to happen by not doing anything about it.

And it's not only happening in Normal Dungeons... I also get Fake Healers (a DPS queued as Healer but with zero heals slotted) in Veteran Base Game Dungeons, and even in Veteran DLC Dungeons, often multiple times per day! I don't know if there are Fake Tanks in Veteran Dungeons because I Tank so that I can prevent it from happening.

But it sure would be nice if zos would finally at least acknowledge this problem, and tell us if they even give a damn about it or not...

Einar_Hrafnarsson

N00BxV1 wrote: »

This has been happening for years... And it will never change as long as zos allows it to happen by not doing anything about it.

They Cant do anything about it as soon as there are no specified Specs for Classes.

The "Play however you want" Freedom comes at the price of no Role specialisations.

I once suggested something for pvp but it could work for pve too.

If you queue as Healer, your get a buff That reduces your damage heavily but buffs all your Healing.
If you go as Tank, the buff reduces your damage and healing but makes you a walking fortress.
If you want in as DPS the buff reduces Defences and Healing in favour of letting you do tons of damage.

Outside of pvp or Dungeon/Raid content, you could still play however you want.

This would fix the Role problem in pvp and pve but many seemed against it when i first suggested it.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have closed this topic as it was originally created in August 2022. In many cases, it's better to create a new thread on a topic that you want to discuss as opposed to bumping one that is rather old.

Thank you for your understanding.