Who Benefits from Mayhem Event?

VaranisArano

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Game development is a mixture of people following their passions and people trying to make money.

As a result, you have elements that primarily reflect each.

For example, I doubt Crown Crates exist because someone was really passionate about the idea of people opening crates.

I'd suggest the Imperial City represents the passionate side.

I'd question if any "suit" would be stupid enough to think that using one of the most iconic cities in their intellectual property as a PvP/PvE Hybird area where you lose things when you die would be a good idea when the majority of your intellectual properties audience is causal without some serious convincing from someone else.

I'd suggest the event is just more of the style of passion.

Imperial City was developed during a time when PVP was ESO's endgame, not PVE trials. Moreover, just like how Cyrodiil is modeled after Dark Age of Camelot's Realm v Realm, Imperial City was originally modeled after Darkness Falls.

It wasn't a stupid decision at the time. Its just that thanks to changes they've made to IC over time, the steady deterioration of PVP performance for years, and the move towards a more traditional TES experience in PVE means that IC is pretty deserted. It used to be quite popular with PVPers, but there's just not as many PVPers as there used to be.

Sarannah

Aardappelboom wrote: »

The problem, as I see it is that the tickets for the PVP event are behind quests, which are PVE quests, in the first place.

They should be behind PVP objectives, take a keep, scout a resource, kill x players,...

That would lock almost the entire playerbase out of being able to get tickets. That would be a hard no, from me! And terrible PR for the game.

Aardappelboom wrote: »

First, I love PVP and I kill everyone I see.

For me this is the other way around. I dislike PvP, and never kill anyone I see. There are exceptions ofcourse: Unless they attack me, attack someone of my alliance, or if they are trying to take a town I am questing in.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Imperial City was developed during a time when PVP was ESO's endgame, not PVE trials. Moreover, just like how Cyrodiil is modeled after Dark Age of Camelot's Realm v Realm, Imperial City was originally modeled after Darkness Falls.

It wasn't a stupid decision at the time. Its just that thanks to changes they've made to IC over time, the steady deterioration of PVP performance for years, and the move towards a more traditional TES experience in PVE means that IC is pretty deserted. It used to be quite popular with PVPers, but there's just not as many PVPers as there used to be.

Personally I feel none of those reasons are why the PvP population has declined. I see the same issue in PvE, where most high CP players stop playing as they feel like they have already 'finished' the game. But the difference is, PvE more easily attracts new players. And I always see low CP players in PvE towns/zones. But PvP is a whole different animal, it requires practice, time, and a different build/gear. Making it much less accessible for new players. And as a result has fewer players flow into PvP, while it does have the normal rate of players flowing out. Meaning the PvP population keeps declining.

The only thing I can see fixing this, is if there were many changes made to PvP, to open it up to the entire playerbase. Players should be able to select base PvP builds/gear/loadouts when they enter a PvP zone(templates for your classes), battles should last much longer so players can actually improve(for example battle spirit adds 1M health), fights should be less complex(no barswapping, no LA weaving, no add-ons, etc). Changes PvPers probably won't like much, but which would open up PvP to more players.

Personally I feel the PvP areas and battleground areas are actually in a good spot, it is just the PvP itself that is the problem.

Toxic_Hemlock

My wife benefits the most from this event...

I don't do the PvP in ESO so I spend more time cleaning the house and yard. Something she benefits greatly from!

EdmondDontes

Sarannah wrote: »

I think events like this PvP event actually ensure more players will stay away from PvP forever, because of gankers. PvP needs a major change. It is strange that players can do well over 100k DPS, compared to the amount of hp/resists we have. Making it a gankers paradise, as players die in 0.4 seconds. This leaves no room for improving, and just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. PvPers can't be proud they killed someone, and the person who died just feels bad as they had no chance to even fight back.

in my opinion PvP events are only created to feed players to the PvPers, which is just stupid. Even more so as they spread out the event tickets and only drop the styles from the IC bosses. Which can be a real pain to farm, especially for non-PvP players.

PvP needs a major change, one PvPers will very very much dislike. So that PvP will open up to everyone.

PS: Another thing that should not be possible is restealthing again and again, after attacking someone and failing. Damage from stealth is WAY too high for that.

PvE players ARE NOT victims in the game of ESO or during the MYM events. MYM is the ONLY PvP event ESO has, so please, please stop trying to play the victim card.

In addition, you're complaints only apply to NB's. So your problem isn't with PvP, it's with NB's who get to fight while invisible.

We don't need to change PvP to accomodate those who have not played enough to learn how to deal with PvP fights. The PvE players need to get out of their safe zone, which is 95% of the game and learn to PvP some.

etchedpixels

Sarannah wrote: »

PvP needs a major change, one PvPers will very very much dislike. So that PvP will open up to everyone.

It needs several but the ability to stack ridiculous layers of damage is actually being fixed up a bit by the PTS changes to empower. PvP swings back and forth between '50 tanks hitting each other with wet jelly' and 'bang you died' as they try and balance it but never seem to get it right.

Auldwulfe

MrBrownstone wrote: »

The number of people who try out PvP and like it is higher than the number of people who try and hate it. ZoS has access to all the data, they know how many people start playing PvP after an event, they literally know that the encouragement to try the content works. Otherwise they wouldn't be doing these events at all.

So you might get ganked repeatedly because you insisted to do that same quest in the same area guarded by others but that's not the experience of the majority. Most people who PvP for the first time like it and actually give it a try. By giving it a try i mean doing research, making builds etc. instead of just getting killed until getting their tickets.

Btw most PvErs take it personal there but believe me, PvPers in IC just queue and roam the place looking for targets, pvp or pve players it doesnt matter. They're not there to specifically kill you. They just attack any enemy. They forget about you 3 seconds after the fight, you can forget about them too. Killing and getting killed is a common part of the PvP and nobody cares about it except for some PvErs who got so used to the overland where they feel immortal and they get shocked when they realize that any enemy with some proper attacks can actually kill them.

Most of the newer people that stay in PvP after the event are trying to finish out a level of Assault, or Support .....
Most people that chat in PVE talk about how the event is the best opportunity to get caltrops to use in PVE ....
Which is why, although there are more people in PvP after the event..... it doesn't last.

I think this is one of the reasons that alliance points and tel'var stones are available in daily gifts... as getting the AP can cause a character to level, and they hope that encourages people to go for more .......

As far as I have seen, and mind you, only been playing this MMO since January.... but have played others over the last 15 years ..... But people seem to go as far as they need to, as to getting what they want, and then drift back to where they were......

If they made the rewards for being in PvP better, or made it less draggy .. I think it would help -- I noted it elsewhere, but I took a level 20 wood elf warden into a level 50 zone.... and I had to, literally, bug someone with fetcher flies until they got annoyed enough to kill me, so I could get a free teleport back to base.

I also think that if they made teleport / revive shrines that you could use at certain rare points, it would help ..... I read the chat, and have seen a LOT of people get annoyed that they got so far, only to have to start again..... with the usual "screw this".... and then they are gone

However, the very few players that like the PvP are just as afraid of change as the rest of the player base about other changes..... so I doubt we'll get any improvements anytime soon.

Auldwulfe

paulychan

so many boon boxes and tickets. I don't even have room for this stuff. is there a dumpster somewhere?
all I did was zerg and hunt nightblades. detect pots are your friend

Auldwulfe

paulychan wrote: »

so many boon boxes and tickets. I don't even have room for this stuff. is there a dumpster somewhere?
all I did was zerg and hunt nightblades. detect pots are your friend

This ... my crafter has used up a huge amount of ingredients selling detects in one of my guild stores .....

Auldwulfe

paulychan

Auldwulfe wrote: »

paulychan wrote: »

so many boon boxes and tickets. I don't even have room for this stuff. is there a dumpster somewhere?
all I did was zerg and hunt nightblades. detect pots are your friend

This ... my crafter has used up a huge amount of ingredients selling detects in one of my guild stores .....

Auldwulfe

I bet.
I'll add poisons to the mix. I'm running the ones that mark your victim and prevent stealth for a short time.
I suck at pvp. I don't grp. I troll and 1vx and mostly fail. so many tickets and boons... for hours of getting wrecked and meatballing the blue dudes. blue dudes suck the most

Riptide

I’m not sure why folks mash their head against a wall in IC if they are having a rough time.

For PVEers with 10+ toons, set them to home in the quietest 30 day campaign, flip resources away from zergs up to tier 1 for the campaign easy peasy, collect hundreds of transmutes. It is super low stress and a lot, lot, lot more time effective than grinding random dungeons for transmutes.

But *shrug, if you fixate on IC or hotspots on the cyro map when you have <25k health, haven’t built for PvX, go into it with disdain from the start etc etc, well of course it will be awful.

Amottica

VaranisArano wrote: »

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Game development is a mixture of people following their passions and people trying to make money.

As a result, you have elements that primarily reflect each.

For example, I doubt Crown Crates exist because someone was really passionate about the idea of people opening crates.

I'd suggest the Imperial City represents the passionate side.

I'd question if any "suit" would be stupid enough to think that using one of the most iconic cities in their intellectual property as a PvP/PvE Hybird area where you lose things when you die would be a good idea when the majority of your intellectual properties audience is causal without some serious convincing from someone else.

I'd suggest the event is just more of the style of passion.

Imperial City was developed during a time when PVP was ESO's endgame, not PVE trials. Moreover, just like how Cyrodiil is modeled after Dark Age of Camelot's Realm v Realm, Imperial City was originally modeled after Darkness Falls.

It wasn't a stupid decision at the time. Its just that thanks to changes they've made to IC over time, the steady deterioration of PVP performance for years, and the move towards a more traditional TES experience in PVE means that IC is pretty deserted. It used to be quite popular with PVPers, but there's just not as many PVPers as there used to be.

IC was released well over a year after the third trial and second section of Craglorn were added to the game. Even then, the first trials were added only a couple months after the game was released. So Cyrodiil, which allows lvl 10 players to enter, was the only end game for a couple months, not a couple years.

chessalavakia_ESO

VaranisArano wrote: »

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Game development is a mixture of people following their passions and people trying to make money.

As a result, you have elements that primarily reflect each.

For example, I doubt Crown Crates exist because someone was really passionate about the idea of people opening crates.

I'd suggest the Imperial City represents the passionate side.

I'd question if any "suit" would be stupid enough to think that using one of the most iconic cities in their intellectual property as a PvP/PvE Hybird area where you lose things when you die would be a good idea when the majority of your intellectual properties audience is causal without some serious convincing from someone else.

I'd suggest the event is just more of the style of passion.

Imperial City was developed during a time when PVP was ESO's endgame, not PVE trials. Moreover, just like how Cyrodiil is modeled after Dark Age of Camelot's Realm v Realm, Imperial City was originally modeled after Darkness Falls.

It wasn't a stupid decision at the time. Its just that thanks to changes they've made to IC over time, the steady deterioration of PVP performance for years, and the move towards a more traditional TES experience in PVE means that IC is pretty deserted. It used to be quite popular with PVPers, but there's just not as many PVPers as there used to be.

Dark Age of Camelot was highly successful in their niche but it was not massively successful overall.

ESO's development budget was massive which requires massive success to work out economically and copying DAOC was never likely to provide that.

You had a move towards a more traditional TES experience because copying DAOC was clearly a failure from an economic standpoint. If game development had more diversity in staff it would likely never have been attempted at that budget level because someone not blinded by passion for the idea of a better DAOC would have noticed the elephant in the room of money.

With that said some of the design approaches have definitely aged poorly as the connections players have to the war and to factions have been reduced by other changes in game.

lunaslide

Amottica wrote: »

It also encourages grouping with others for those just getting into PvP, which can benefit everyone with education concerning good builds and learning how to improve one's play style for PvP. This part will enhance someone's experience PvP and help make the difference between an enjoyable experience or it being a train wreck.

Amottica is quite correct about this, your mindset and having company will make a huge difference in your experience.

We have done more education, build advice, and grouping during this event than most of the rest of the time. This is a much more fun event if you hook up with PvP savvy people in your guild and go in with a group. It really sucks getting killed and feeling helpless when you're by yourself, so don't do it that way.

The first time I did this event with my friend, we had no idea about PvP and naturally got wrecked in IC. I didn't ever want to do it again, but found myself watching PvP streamers to try to learn what it was about. The next time Mayhem came around, I dedicated myself to doing ONLY PvP for the whole event because knowledge and practice is the only way to get better and I had learned a lot by watching in the run up to the event, now it was time to practice.

Still got wrecked a bunch, but it was with my friends and guild mates and we could laugh it off and go again, and sometimes get some payback. I had a lot more fun that time around because I got fully out of my comfort zone and gave it a genuine shot. I refused to be afraid of it, and now I no longer am. It's also made me a better PvE player because I understand combat mechanics much better, and how different sets, abilities, class passives, weapons, and bar composition work together for better effect.

This Mayhem, I'm helping others, advising on builds, taking people into IC and Cyrodiil, teaching them what to watch for, how to keep alive, time their attacks, etc. We've got a 12 year old under level 50 coming with us into CP areas and having a blast. He's even killed a few CP level players (probably PvE'ers who paniced or felt brave against a below-50 ). I still do mostly PvE outside of the event, but again I've dedicated myself fully to the event and it's even more fun than last time (except for the lag in Cyrodiil, omg the lag).

This is your second post about this OP, lamenting your FOMO for tickets because you won't get into the spirit of the event. Get out there with others and do it, they will help you. Go to Evergloam or Quagmire campaigns, if you don't have a guild or guild mates interested, just go LFG and someone will pick you up. Let them know you're new and they'll help. Groups who don't want newbies won't invite, those that do kind of know what they're getting.

Tsunahmie

As a PvPer I can definitely say I have not enjoyed this event at all. PCEU has lagged all the time and when it's not lagging you get jumped by 3 gankers at once or rolled over by a zerg

I played maybe 5 hours total and of that maybe 20minutes was fun fights, tops.

xDeusEJRx

PvP'ers benefit obviously. You get more players to play against and therefore more fun experiences to enjoy.

I always find it funny how most of the complaints about mayhem is the "gankers" but gankers are few and far between in the entirety of PVP. Gankers are always around every patch and gank players on a daily basis, mayhem just gives them more targets to gank.

But in PVP, theres far more ZERGS and faction stacking happening than ganking. There's always 20+,30+,40+ groups running around as opposed to the 1 ganker whos guarding cropsford or vlastarus and bruma.

But gankers are always the ones who get the focus every time, despite being probably less than 1% of pvp players. Like every inch of imperial city is bogged with big zergs running around every district during mayhem even when there's no campaign or points to win and basically no reason to have a massive zerg

VaranisArano

Amottica wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Game development is a mixture of people following their passions and people trying to make money.

As a result, you have elements that primarily reflect each.

For example, I doubt Crown Crates exist because someone was really passionate about the idea of people opening crates.

I'd suggest the Imperial City represents the passionate side.

I'd question if any "suit" would be stupid enough to think that using one of the most iconic cities in their intellectual property as a PvP/PvE Hybird area where you lose things when you die would be a good idea when the majority of your intellectual properties audience is causal without some serious convincing from someone else.

I'd suggest the event is just more of the style of passion.

Imperial City was developed during a time when PVP was ESO's endgame, not PVE trials. Moreover, just like how Cyrodiil is modeled after Dark Age of Camelot's Realm v Realm, Imperial City was originally modeled after Darkness Falls.

It wasn't a stupid decision at the time. Its just that thanks to changes they've made to IC over time, the steady deterioration of PVP performance for years, and the move towards a more traditional TES experience in PVE means that IC is pretty deserted. It used to be quite popular with PVPers, but there's just not as many PVPers as there used to be.

IC was released well over a year after the third trial and second section of Craglorn were added to the game. Even then, the first trials were added only a couple months after the game was released. So Cyrodiil, which allows lvl 10 players to enter, was the only end game for a couple months, not a couple years.

Sure, i wasn't clear. It's not that there wasn't a PVE endgame, but rather that there was a PVP endgame and Imperial City added to it.

At the time that IC was developed, ESO was not the sort of game that it is now. It wasn't chasing after the casual TES fan near as much as it does now. It wasn't a stupid or passion-driven decision at the time to follow up DAoC style Cyrodiil with Darkness Falls style Imperial City. It was a reasonably solid decision to add on to ESO's PVP endgame.

In hindsight, obviously, it's fallen by the wayside. As a PvPvE zone, it has very little appeal to the casual TES fans that ESO has been chasing since One Tamriel roughly a year after IC launched. As an endgame, it's clearly not the PVP equivalent to ESO's list of PVE trials and the endgame community that now surrounds those.

But none of that was clear at the time. Darkness Falls was a reasonably successful model to follow, and Imperial City fit in well as an endgame for Cyrodiil. It was actually very popular with PVPers for a time, before the district flags and persistent performance problems, anyway.

There's just a lot of players who look at the sad state of IC now and think "Wow. Why'd they do that? That was stupid." and forget that ESO was a very different game then than it is now.

So I disagree that Imperial City was a passion project driven by someone who was too stupid to see that PVE-only players somehow have more claim on an iconic location like Imperial City. At the time, it made good sense given their vision for ESO's endgame. It was a basic money-making expansion for PVP's endgame/PVE dungeons after the game went Buy to Play.

Drammanoth

lunaslide wrote: »

Amottica is quite correct about this, your mindset and having company will make a huge difference in your experience.

We have done more education, build advice, and grouping during this event than most of the rest of the time. This is a much more fun event if you hook up with PvP savvy people in your guild and go in with a group. It really sucks getting killed and feeling helpless when you're by yourself, so don't do it that way.

The first time I did this event with my friend, we had no idea about PvP and naturally got wrecked in IC. I didn't ever want to do it again, but found myself watching PvP streamers to try to learn what it was about. The next time Mayhem came around, I dedicated myself to doing ONLY PvP for the whole event because knowledge and practice is the only way to get better and I had learned a lot by watching in the run up to the event, now it was time to practice.

Still got wrecked a bunch, but it was with my friends and guild mates and we could laugh it off and go again, and sometimes get some payback. I had a lot more fun that time around because I got fully out of my comfort zone and gave it a genuine shot. I refused to be afraid of it, and now I no longer am. It's also made me a better PvE player because I understand combat mechanics much better, and how different sets, abilities, class passives, weapons, and bar composition work together for better effect.

This Mayhem, I'm helping others, advising on builds, taking people into IC and Cyrodiil, teaching them what to watch for, how to keep alive, time their attacks, etc. We've got a 12 year old under level 50 coming with us into CP areas and having a blast. He's even killed a few CP level players (probably PvE'ers who paniced or felt brave against a below-50 ). I still do mostly PvE outside of the event, but again I've dedicated myself fully to the event and it's even more fun than last time (except for the lag in Cyrodiil, omg the lag).(...).

Bold and italics - mine
Consider the above as repost because it is GENUINELY awesome, fantastic and what not.

This, my fellow Men and Mer, is *the* way to go about PvP.

As for me, I'd like ZOS to hold such PvP events every weekend, or biweekly. Not only would it make them remember about Cyro - you know, this nagging feeling, so annoying, something that you have to do - but also they'd attract MORE people to the aspect they had originally claimed to be a feature standing out from other MMOs.

For me, it is :P

Riptide

It hurts people in the feels to get quickly killed by a player. Folks that are able to shrug it off and build like every player is a boss mob with one shot mechanics almost never get one shotted anymore by a single player, and that takes such a small amount of effort to do that it makes me wonder at folks. I mean the same folks who will endless hours grinding this or that style page can’t bring themselves to use the free armory station to make a build where they are very survivable, and skirt chokepoints and such?

It doesn’t compute, and tells me that at the core of it is a hangup about dying to another player. You’ve just flat got to develop a skin for that, and it doesn’t take much more than deciding to do so. And then you dig in and fight, and win a couple against those sorts you despised, and the world shifts. You can become a hunter of hunters rather than prey with a very short transition, if you make the decision to do so.

And then you are the one that can leave a fisher or a quester in peace, or punish a predator when they mistake you for one or when you witness predation. Have to take your power back by doing some homework, but its not hard to do. We are talking a few hours of prep, not days, weeks or whatever.

Dojohoda

I figure the PVP'ers benefit by being able to participate in an event for PVP.

On pcna cp ic campaign, we've been brawling in Memorial district. It's fun for us PVP'ers. Could be a nightmare for pve questers so, skip over that district if it's not your thing.

On the other hand, if PVE'ers want to join in on the big brawl, deposit your telvar and jump into the fray. We welcome you!

rbfrgsp

If you don't like PvP, then the PvP event is not for you.

If you don't like PvE, then the other 94,000 events each year are not for you.

I do see how this balance is massively out of whack in favour of the PvPers though.

rbfrgsp

Korinth wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

I think events like this PvP event actually ensure more players will stay away from PvP forever, because of gankers. PvP needs a major change. It is strange that players can do well over 100k DPS, compared to the amount of hp/resists we have. Making it a gankers paradise, as players die in 0.4 seconds. This leaves no room for improving, and just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. PvPers can't be proud they killed someone, and the person who died just feels bad as they had no chance to even fight back.

in my opinion PvP events are only created to feed players to the PvPers, which is just stupid. Even more so as they spread out the event tickets and only drop the styles from the IC bosses. Which can be a real pain to farm, especially for non-PvP players.

PvP needs a major change, one PvPers will very very much dislike. So that PvP will open up to everyone.

PS: Another thing that should not be possible is restealthing again and again, after attacking someone and failing. Damage from stealth is WAY too high for that.

This....ALL of this.

I will add the main reason I never really got into PvP is the PAINFUL way you have to respec your Champ points, skills, and yet another gear grind for PvP gear that changes every 3 months much like PvE gear does.

I suggested in another thread that maybe the Cyro MYM event give PvE'ers a mission behind the main base gates....so if a PvE'er WANTS to engage in PvP they can, but if they dont...then they dont have to. Its just sad you have these "elite" PvPers camping town mission daily spots so they can nuke non-PvPer's.

No, not "this ALL of this."

There is not a single player on any server who can 100k DPS in PvP. If you're decent you can hit 24k DPS. If you're very good you can hit 28-32k DPS.

Nobody with 40k hp has ever wiped in a single global cooldown in this game's PvP.

So suggesting that it's possible to hit more than double that shows just how much some of you have still to learn about the PvP zones of ESO.

Lebkuchen

You should get used to die in PvP, because you will die a lot, no matter what you do. If you can not handle it, play something else.

In every PvP game there are different playstyles. I do not like snipers in Call of Duty, but they are part of the game. You die before you have a chance to react. Why would ESO be different?

You can always join an empty campaign if you want to play PvP without other players.

Geldauran

Its been years and people are still having these same argument? People should know by now.

VaranisArano

Sarannah wrote: »

Aardappelboom wrote: »

The problem, as I see it is that the tickets for the PVP event are behind quests, which are PVE quests, in the first place.

They should be behind PVP objectives, take a keep, scout a resource, kill x players,...

That would lock almost the entire playerbase out of being able to get tickets. That would be a hard no, from me! And terrible PR for the game.

Aardappelboom wrote: »

First, I love PVP and I kill everyone I see.

For me this is the other way around. I dislike PvP, and never kill anyone I see. There are exceptions ofcourse: Unless they attack me, attack someone of my alliance, or if they are trying to take a town I am questing in.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Imperial City was developed during a time when PVP was ESO's endgame, not PVE trials. Moreover, just like how Cyrodiil is modeled after Dark Age of Camelot's Realm v Realm, Imperial City was originally modeled after Darkness Falls.

It wasn't a stupid decision at the time. Its just that thanks to changes they've made to IC over time, the steady deterioration of PVP performance for years, and the move towards a more traditional TES experience in PVE means that IC is pretty deserted. It used to be quite popular with PVPers, but there's just not as many PVPers as there used to be.

Personally I feel none of those reasons are why the PvP population has declined. I see the same issue in PvE, where most high CP players stop playing as they feel like they have already 'finished' the game. But the difference is, PvE more easily attracts new players. And I always see low CP players in PvE towns/zones. But PvP is a whole different animal, it requires practice, time, and a different build/gear. Making it much less accessible for new players. And as a result has fewer players flow into PvP, while it does have the normal rate of players flowing out. Meaning the PvP population keeps declining.

The only thing I can see fixing this, is if there were many changes made to PvP, to open it up to the entire playerbase. Players should be able to select base PvP builds/gear/loadouts when they enter a PvP zone(templates for your classes), battles should last much longer so players can actually improve(for example battle spirit adds 1M health), fights should be less complex(no barswapping, no LA weaving, no add-ons, etc). Changes PvPers probably won't like much, but which would open up PvP to more players.

Personally I feel the PvP areas and battleground areas are actually in a good spot, it is just the PvP itself that is the problem.

As far as I can tell, you dislike PVP and so probably don't play with many players who really like PVP.

I played with a PVP guild that raided for several nights a week for a couple years, and in the process heard from a lot of very fervent PVPers on my faction on PC/NA, enemy faction players, and then here on the forums. With the strong caveat that the plural of anecdote is not data, the overwhelming reason why players who liked PVP were leaving was performance related and balance related.

Except that in PVP, those two are related. When you can't reliably fire your skills off, you have to build tanky in order to survive for the five button presses it takes to get your heal off. And that has knock on effects because people don't like fighting tanks all the time. That's only one example; there's a lot of problematic stuff in PVP that boils down to "this would be balanced if the servers worked properly, but they don't, so it sucks."

Or consider that PVP guild raids tend to fight in big battles, which is exactly where the performance is at its worst. So "ball groups" build and act certain ways to counter lag as best they can, while non-grouped players get increasingly frustrated with the guilds as they die to lag. Even guild players suffer from it - in fact, that's why I stopped playing regularly because after an hour of play, I'd start crashing in every battle.

So then ZOS starts balancing to address player frustrations with large groups and large battles by trying to kill groups faster so there's less long battles and thus less lag. So they give us sets like Dark Convergence and Plaguebreak that were unbalanced at launch, and are still driving players to complain that they are leaving until those sets are balanced properly.

Then let's consider that new players to PVP do best in a large group of allies. Except that due to performance, ZOS has steadily reduces the number of players per campaign. Oh, and the best way to beat a ball group is to have lots of allies around...but ZOS has reduced group size and players per campaign all due to performance!

Cyrodiil wasn't this bad three or four years ago. We've lost a lot of guilds and a lot of players - and the persistent performance problems are at the root at why a lot of people who love PVP leave.

My guild left for New World, hoping that PVP would actually work over there.


If you don't play PVP regularly (forgive me if I'm assuming incorrectly that you don't), you might not realize how interconnected performance and balance are when PVPers talk about why they're leaving.

I'm not really going to talk about your other ideas since it's all a moot point if performance doesn't get fixed. Fix performance, and there's a much better chance that players who actually like ESO's PVP will have a good time playing it as designed.

opalcity

Riptide wrote: »

It hurts people in the feels to get quickly killed by a player. Folks that are able to shrug it off and build like every player is a boss mob with one shot mechanics almost never get one shotted anymore by a single player, and that takes such a small amount of effort to do that it makes me wonder at folks. I mean the same folks who will endless hours grinding this or that style page can’t bring themselves to use the free armory station to make a build where they are very survivable, and skirt chokepoints and such?

It doesn’t compute, and tells me that at the core of it is a hangup about dying to another player. You’ve just flat got to develop a skin for that, and it doesn’t take much more than deciding to do so. And then you dig in and fight, and win a couple against those sorts you despised, and the world shifts. You can become a hunter of hunters rather than prey with a very short transition, if you make the decision to do so.

And then you are the one that can leave a fisher or a quester in peace, or punish a predator when they mistake you for one or when you witness predation. Have to take your power back by doing some homework, but its not hard to do. We are talking a few hours of prep, not days, weeks or whatever.

I used to feel like that until I stopped thinking of the enemy as an actual person, laughing at the other end of a controller, and just thought of them as any other enemy npc - just one better at killing than me. Once I stopped taking it so personally, it didn't bother me to be killed by them any more than any overland enemy or mob.


OH WAIT, until today when a bunch of selfish campers were killing anyone at Cropsford. They were purposefully taking advantage of today's endeavour, I even got attacked inside a building whilst trying to hand a quest in. Now that petty nonsense I took personally!

WiseSky

Who benefits?

ZOS

PVPrs

PVErs who can be a good sport when they get owned

PVEer who dabble in PVP for the first time and start to want to get better and start actually enjoying it after getting the basics

Opportunists who cheese the event by following the easiest way to get tickets/Pages with no or minimal pvp exposure

Rpers like me who enjoy the thrill of sneaking around strategically in order not to get caught but reap the rewards

As any problem in life, some may find an enjoyable solution

Riptide

The events bring out some wormy types for sure. I haunt quieter campaigns every month for transmutes and folks pretty much /tiphat each other at purely PVE spots, fishing or what have you. I don’t think I’ve ever in my life killed anyone or been killed by a player in a delve for example, and the universal sign of block is respected around quest spots as a matter of course.

On the flipside during the event you get a LOT of know it alls on zonechat who are assertive but completely ignorant, and so you get all kinds of erroneous target callouts, bickering and nonsense from, well - tourists. And we’re glad for tourists, thats how we all started, but it can be a bit /facepalm

I’m AD, as thats the only faction there was preclosed beta and it stuck, but I mean its elves and khajiit, is what it is, its a busy but pve oriented faction. For many years its the same dynamic, the fewest perennial pvpers, the most numbers. If you can rouse the shire and herd them, you can dominate the map. Otherwise its really pretty lopsided, pound for pound.

Yesterday I watched as two folks griped that no one was repairing our gate whilst 5-6 of us were working to take the keep in question to close it, and those folks went on at length even after being corrected disseminating completely false information. We finally got our gate closed despite that person siphoning off 75% of the faction away from the objective. Folks like those are the ones I’ve seen that wind up doing wormy mess like camp quest turnins. It is a type - loud, wrong, and a bully to anyone they can.

I’ve gotten to where I take pleasure in hunting those sorts when I find them, I look at it as public service.

On cyro anyway I often find myself going without a group, and gravitating to the part of the map where either there is low hanging fruit as far as keeps or resources, and 3-4 other folks will quietly drift over to the same spot as they see what I see. More than half the time I’ll look and they are another former emperor. And outside of the types I mentioned above, none of them are really hunting players or take any sort of satisfaction in causing other people inconvenience. They are AP hunters, and you get that from taking objectives, defensive ticks etc.

The most nonchill behavior is most often displayed not by regulars preying on tourists, but from other tourists who have a narrow view of what pvp is.

Well and in IC you get tons of folks who don’t even know what telvar are and that you can deposit them etc and they may have a whole sackfull from monthly rewards and whatnot over the years. But thats literally the sewers, and so I’m pretty cool with the karma of that being the environment that sort of predator spend hours of their lives in, and steer folks away from it

FlopsyPrince

FluffWit wrote: »

I told you a week ago you could do the Arena district daily without leaving the safety of your spawn point Flopsy.

You are wrong, at least in part. Yes, you can stand in the area where you are completely protected, but that relies on others doing the work for you, something that is not always the case, and something that can likely get you kicked out of the game for inaction if you get bored of standing there doing nothing and get into something else. That is not also a good gameplay choice for ZOS to provide.

I was in that "safe point" and just got ganked. And it appears that player is now camping the area. Repeat again how you can do it here and be "safe"....

Encouraging play to gank those who are just trying to complete a quest is not a good thing.

FlopsyPrince

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

FluffWit wrote: »

I told you a week ago you could do the Arena district daily without leaving the safety of your spawn point Flopsy.

Yes, but yesterday someone peeped over the edge to look at the major fight that had kicked off at the foot of the base... leaned too far over and fell off into the baying mob.

I was dead as soon as I hit the floor

You do not have to fall down to end up quite dead.

That is the flaw.

=====

But most are ignoring the point here. What is the balance of "reward" based on the players impacted.

FlopsyPrince

Tsunahmie wrote: »

As a PvPer I can definitely say I have not enjoyed this event at all. PCEU has lagged all the time and when it's not lagging you get jumped by 3 gankers at once or rolled over by a zerg

I played maybe 5 hours total and of that maybe 20minutes was fun fights, tops.

This type of result should also be considered when evaluating how many players "benefit" from the event. It should not be a toke feed to a very limited number of players. It should be useful to a significant subset, making that subset as large as possible.

I did not write this to complain about ganking, as much as I despise it and as much as it could make me just rage quit the whole thing, I wrote it to raise the issue of how many benefit. Few have addressed this point.