Who Benefits from Mayhem Event?

FlopsyPrince

A thought hit me after getting ganked multiple times in one area of IC today.

How many benefit from the gank state of this event and how many get really frustrated.

Ignore the "you don't have to do it" people. That is not relevant to this question. The root question I would bring up is how many players are impacted favorably and unfavorably by the gankers in the event, not really fighting it out for area control, big battles, etc.

It would seem that the number of gankers is much more limited compared to the entire player base, though a few who love to kill questers are active on the forums.

Kill the PvPers: A couple dozen across the player base?

PvErs trying to earn tickets and maybe some questing rewards?

PvErs: Several hundred, at least.

My numbers of course may be off, but one ganker in Cropsville, for example, can ruin the experience for many many others. I have never seen more than a group of 3 or 4 of them at a time and it is normally a single one, who stealths immediately after killing the quester.

Is ZOS really getting more player enjoyment from the 2 PvP events as they are structured now? Please give a solid argument why the number is wrong if you think so.

Other things lower the fun factor when individuals or groups can hassle people on a platform trying to get the Arena quest much more easily than those on the platform can attack them back. This doesn't happen as often, so the numbers could be closer to the solo gankers, even those this is often a group.

So does the event really serve its purpose of getting more players engaged with the game, is it working when it only favors a few, but annoys many more, in the ganking aspect?

Sarannah

I think events like this PvP event actually ensure more players will stay away from PvP forever, because of gankers. PvP needs a major change. It is strange that players can do well over 100k DPS, compared to the amount of hp/resists we have. Making it a gankers paradise, as players die in 0.4 seconds. This leaves no room for improving, and just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. PvPers can't be proud they killed someone, and the person who died just feels bad as they had no chance to even fight back.

in my opinion PvP events are only created to feed players to the PvPers, which is just stupid. Even more so as they spread out the event tickets and only drop the styles from the IC bosses. Which can be a real pain to farm, especially for non-PvP players.

PvP needs a major change, one PvPers will very very much dislike. So that PvP will open up to everyone.

PS: Another thing that should not be possible is restealthing again and again, after attacking someone and failing. Damage from stealth is WAY too high for that.

MrBrownstone

The number of people who try out PvP and like it is higher than the number of people who try and hate it. ZoS has access to all the data, they know how many people start playing PvP after an event, they literally know that the encouragement to try the content works. Otherwise they wouldn't be doing these events at all.

So you might get ganked repeatedly because you insisted to do that same quest in the same area guarded by others but that's not the experience of the majority. Most people who PvP for the first time like it and actually give it a try. By giving it a try i mean doing research, making builds etc. instead of just getting killed until getting their tickets.

Btw most PvErs take it personal there but believe me, PvPers in IC just queue and roam the place looking for targets, pvp or pve players it doesnt matter. They're not there to specifically kill you. They just attack any enemy. They forget about you 3 seconds after the fight, you can forget about them too. Killing and getting killed is a common part of the PvP and nobody cares about it except for some PvErs who got so used to the overland where they feel immortal and they get shocked when they realize that any enemy with some proper attacks can actually kill them.

WinterHeart626

The problem with the event is not the PVPers, it’s the PVE players who decide that now is the time to make gank builds.
Ganking = low risk/ high reward play, especially for those who are new to pvp, but skilled in mechs.
I ran about in a set of adept rider/ night mothers for super fast sneaking, as a nighblade, certainly wasn’t built for ganks, more for executions of opportunity. Iirc it survived quite well vs the auto crit from stealth incap strikes, as well as the follow up “killing shot”. Even allowing for myself to throw down some 32k incap strikes of my own in return 😂

The majority of ganker builds out there are those who show up during these events, for easy kills.
If you want to fully enjoy PvP, talk to your guildies, and organise a guild pvp run. Trust me, you WILL feel the difference in levels of enjoyment.

geonsocal

there should be "safe" areas where questers can interact with npcs, something similar to the imperial city districts, similar to the already existing crafting rooms located within towns, rooms with multiple exits and a "safe" platform...

FluffWit

I told you a week ago you could do the Arena district daily without leaving the safety of your spawn point Flopsy.

Eiregirl

Most pve players who go into cyrodiil for the event are there to get some tickets and style pages and once the event is over they will leave until the next one. As long as they get their tickets and style pages they don't care. Some come in groups with guild mates who regularly pvp (for a little security) some come with a friend or two making it harder to kill but they still go down.

Some pve players are easy to spot but for the most part pvp players don't know or care who is a pvper and who is not all they see is a target that needs to go down. Maybe PVE players should wear signs while in cyrodiil

tonyblack

This event isn’t about doing quests but about player vs player activities. Large scale battles for keeps, scrolls, emperorship, district control, etc. People who come expecting easy rewards for zero risk of pvp should either be smart about it (do everything beforehand, play at off peak hours on unpopulated campaigns) or suck it up and deal with the fact that one of the dozens of events aren’t for them.

joerginger

It is very much about doing quests as this is where every single ticket comes from.

Drammanoth

I've been visiting Cyro from the beginning of MYM. I would not, if I had not learned some simple truths. Lo and behold:

00) If you're afraid to be killed
> you're in a PvP zone - you should EXPECT (but not await) to be killed. Have this idea in mind, and relax.

0) speed and inventory are crucial
> if you claim reward after reward, you may need to visit your alliance base which MAY be cut off

1) they kill you?
> You respawn.

2) You need to get to a specific point that is on the other side of Cyro?
> Wait for your Alliance to dominate Cyro

3) You want to be a part of a team to conquer?
> Be prepared - ballistae, trebuchets, rams, oils, repair kits, etc.

4) They gank you?
> Leave and return to the place in an hour or two

5) You need an insta-respawn?
> go and get yourself killed by high jumping / attacking an enemy's fort / attacking many NPCs / jumping into lava BUT have repair kits

6) Don't attack if you can clearly see the players not from your alliance are in a town just for quests.
> don't like ganking - don't gank yourself

7) How to best enjoy Cyro?
> despite the lag, have fun. Large, open world PvP for me, as a PvE player, if cool.

There you go

Shihp00

You can get 'ganked' IN IC ? Whoaah ! !11!1!

EF321

FluffWit wrote: »

I told you a week ago you could do the Arena district daily without leaving the safety of your spawn point Flopsy.

I posted video personally for him of me doing arena quest absolutely naked and with no abilities on pop locked server. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

shadyjane62

I never go into IC after the first time there. I am an 8 year pvper rank 38 almost 39. If IC was required for pvp I wouldn't do it.

Amottica

Everyone stands to benefit. Certain things happen in PvP, such as obtaining 50 SP and even more shards, to encourage players to give PvP a try which in the end can benefit everyone. This PvP event is no different than that and is why Zenimax does an occasional PvP event.

It also encourages grouping with others for those just getting into PvP, which can benefit everyone with education concerning good builds and learning how to improve one's play style for PvP. This part will enhance someone's experience PvP and help make the difference between an enjoyable experience or it being a train wreck.

So, on the other hand, if someone enters Cyroiili and IC solo with a build that is not well suited for PvP and is not experienced with handling themselves against another player or how to avoid large groups and being ganked, then that is a choice but one that will most likely end with a bad experience from getting killed over and over without accomplishing anything.

Have a good day and enjoy the game.

WinterHeart626

If you’re that hard up for tickets, craft a set of “Nights silence” and “adept rider”, put points into stealthy stuff, off ya go.
You get major expedition + full move speed while crouched.
Ride to near where you wanna go, dismount, crouch, get your quest, vanish.
It’s not hard you know.
I did stuff Friday night wearing those two sets, an oaken soul and molag kena helm.
4 medium, 2 heavy, 1 light. Khajit. Bow. Even takes some punishment in PvP. You’re not going to kill NPC combatants without risk though, so no farm flipping without effort (you want that, you make a build that can do it, just expect to be ganked/ killed/ one shotted by players).

Again, the event is PVP oriented, pvp get an event twice a year out ouf how many?

[snip]
[edited for baiitng]

Aardappelboom

First, I love PVP and I kill everyone I see.

The problem, as I see it is that the tickets for the PVP event are behind quests, which are PVE quests, in the first place.

They should be behind PVP objectives, take a keep, scout a resource, kill x players,...

There's a ton of PVP quests in Cyro and the battleground tickets are the only tickets behind PVP quests.

Pvp objectives would be benificial because people will group up and AvsA might be more coordinated to get tickets.

Just a thought.

I_killed_Vivec

FluffWit wrote: »

I told you a week ago you could do the Arena district daily without leaving the safety of your spawn point Flopsy.

Yes, but yesterday someone peeped over the edge to look at the major fight that had kicked off at the foot of the base... leaned too far over and fell off into the baying mob.

I was dead as soon as I hit the floor

phaneub17_ESO

Kinda off topic, but surprisingly I only got ganked twice during the Zeal of Zenithar event, mostly because the people running IC were their crafting characters so they may have been ill-equipped in taking on another player or the roaming mobs. I saw a few on my faction struggle with even the small patrolling trash mob packs, I stepped in to help them out a few times. For the most part, people were very cordial as different factions passed by each other without attacking. There were a few outliers like one Nightblade who smacked me as I went for a sky shard.

Living_Tribunal

Those Dufort style pages drew me there...and I got ganked... a lot. Worth it. Now I'll never be back till the next mayhem event.

theoriginalpickle

Coming in as a primarily PVe'r i despise IC its not fun the areas are not fun to navigate and the sewers are even worse for gankers and just nasty *insert bad words here thanks zos*.

BUT ! a very large BUT i really enjoyed CYRO i turned one of my toons into a pvp focused toon its a healer she gets slapped but i've clutched with rando groups against ball groups, and it was FUN i was able to contribute to my team if i got killed i just either went to the forward camp or re-spawned and got my fat slow butt back to the fight.

IC is not fun it's none of those things i've had maybe one good experience running into either kind pvpers who knew i wasn't a threat or worth the 3 telvar i had on me and they even helped me kill a roaming boss. It's the complete opposite most of the time, i'd wait for the roaming pvpers to run past or go into another area stealth use potions to hide all that and i'd just get hunted down. I couldn't fight back i couldn't heal and i couldn't escape.

That is not fun its not about dying there was just no chance to do anything, i ended up just standing there i've had people whisper me trying to goad me about loosing telvar (which i banked so no loss to me). I've been abused for having so few tel'var, its my fault i don't fight back or have what they want. Meanwhile those same people do it again in those cases i've had faction pvpers come and help me when they knew they'd get easy kills on gankers.

Id feel like IC was less garbage specifically if ZOS implemented low level IC options for people who aren't maxed or designed for specific pvp ( i know this will get abused and won't happen but we can dream right?)

Not sure what the length of my post was meant to state, more a ramble of someone coming into PVP as a newbie and finding what i do and don't enjoy and hoping it can be tweaked to improve for everyone. Without saying HURDUR GITGUD SCRUB ITS PVP LERN TO DIE.

Or all that nonsense that gets thrown around.

VaranisArano

ZOS benefits. It may shock you to hear this, but player enjoyment is not the metric that matters.

1. Player engagement matters, and one thing that ZOS very consistently tries to do is get players to try out all parts of ESO. Events in particular incentivize all sorts of activities and not every player is going to enjoy all of those activities. But ZOS knows full well that players won't know unless they try.

Whitestrakes Mayhem has demonstratively high player engagement in the targeted PVP areas from players who are willing to casually PVP for rewards. Most of them don't stick around, but that's okay. ZOS isn't looking to make hardcore PVPers from this event; a bunch of casual players who move on to the next event and come back for the next Whitestrakes Mayhem is just fine. Ganking is not such a deterrent that players won't casually head out to PVP for rewards.

PVE players might enjoy a PVE-only option for this event more, but frankly that's irrelevant and counterproductive to ZOS' goal to get players to try out all of the game. PVE Cyrodiil is not trying out PVP Cyrodiil, obviously, and so ZOS consistently expects that players will casually engage in PVP-enabled zones if they want the rewards of the PVP-themed event.

(I'll raise my hand as a player who would not have tried PVP except that there were rewards in PVP zones that I wanted. In my case, fish. I'm the exception in that I became a hardcore PVPer.)

2. Player experience matters, and since ZOS very consistently tries to balance PVE and PVP together, it matters that many players are willing to casually play both gamemodes.

For example, take the new Empower changes. On the surface, it looks like ZOS has very simply balanced it separately for PVE and PVP. However, skills and sets with Empower are now not up to standard in PVP, and our skill costs are now higher with less buffs. If you know the combat team and their penchant for standardization, there'll likely be a raft of changes coming driven by this supposedly simple decision, and if PVE players have zero understanding how the Empower changes impact PVP, they will struggle to understand why ZOS is making more changes.

Picking up some of the basics of PVE/PVP differences is a tangible benefit to having lots of players who're willing to casually PVP during events. Yes, this includes questers who are exposed to basic ideas of building for PVP even if they ignore the advice, and yeah, they're exposed to PVP tactics like burst damage, stealth, and ganking. Whether or not they learn anything from the experience is up to them.

3. Monetization of PVP avoidance matters. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that ZOS benefits monetarily every time someone buys an event ticket to avoid Cyrodiil, BGs, or Imperial City during Whitestrakes Mayhem.

Ironically, players who are willing to pay to avoid the risk of being ganked only incentivize ZOS to continue running the event as it is. If players will casually do Cyrodiil or BGs, then pay to avoid Imperial City, you know one reason why ZOS spilts the tickets between the gamemodes even though it would benefit everyone to get 3 tickets from one quest like it was in a past MYM.


In short, ZOS benefits from Whitestrakes Mayhem whether players enjoy it, like it enough to casually play for rewards, dislike it but play for rewards anyway, or hate it and spend money to avoid it. The numbers of those players are high enough to hit whatever metrics ZOS has that indicate success enough to keep running this bi-annual event exactly the same for the last several runs.

I enjoy Mayhem. The OP dislikes it but plays it for rewards anyway. You know what category you're in.

OBJnoob

I’m confused by the question… who benefits? Anybody that participates and enjoys any of the rewards I guess. I, for one, really only play the game to pvp so this is the only event I ever participate in. That being said the rewards from the ticket merchant really don’t mean crap to me. Sure, I bought some, but I’m probably going to forget I have those skins or emotes or style pages to be honest. I have been benefitting though because of the tel var in the Pelinals reward bags. And I’ve been benefitting because Xbox NA ravenwatch is never as populated as during mid year mayhem.

I think it’s kinda funny to say that the purpose for this event is to attract new pvpers though. Is that Zos’ official stance? Sure one could expect it to have that side effect… but it’s really just an event isn’t it? Like any other? Forcing you into zones you maybe don’t normally go to for things you maybe want?

I would be lying if I said us true pvpers didn’t very much enjoy the infusion of inexperienced and poorly built characters into our pvp. You get some good gameclips and yes we all look forward to it.

That doesn’t mean ‘you’re’ being singled out though. Quite the opposite… this is what ‘we’ go through every day. This is pvp. That’s why the gankers are so effective… because they’re used to ganking other pvpers but now pvers are here. So they are supposed to what? Should mid year mayhem, the only pvp event, be a reason to shut down pvp while pvers flood the zone and quest?

Frankly it’s a stupid thing to complain about.

Lady_Galadhiel

I agree with @VaranisArano , I belive they sell more tickets in the cash shop during PvP events than during any other PvE events. This is the reason why we get it twice a year and not only once like it used to be back in 2018-2019 if I am not mistaken.

It is all about money at the end of the day.

Who benefits? The house always wins.

Kiralyn2000

VaranisArano wrote: »

ZOS benefits.

This.


edit: at the most basic level, every "Event" in every game is about benefitting the dev/the game by increasing 'engagement' & 'metrics'
(of course, as Events become omni-present, they become less 'special' and less likely to get someone to come back to the game and/or log in more often.)

Dawnblade

ZOS adds desirable rewards for players to chase during events and goes so far as to sell event tickets on the store - so I do not think they care one way or the other whether players actually enjoy the underlying event content, just that more players are willing to play the event for the rewards or pay to skip it.

It is a lot cheaper and easier for ZOS to create events and rewards and tie them to existing content as a means to keep players engaged than it is to create brand new content.

And as we have no metrics on measures of player enjoyment, even if we had metrics showing more players participating in PVP content than average, we could not conclude that more people enjoy PVP / stick around for PVP / want more PVP.

Anecdotal for sure, but I participated, and I don't care for ESO PVP.

Why then did I participate?

Why not, when I have characters that need skills locked behind PVP and can use items tied to AP - participating means I get those skills faster AND I get the event rewards AND I get AP which is useful for many things.

As to who benefits?

ZOS - more players chassing shinnies = more opportunities to sell subscriptions and cash shop items, not to mention selling tickets to those who don't want to participate but also don't want to miss the special FOMO event rewards.

PVP players in some campaigns trying to keep populations high enough to have enjoyable battles.

Players in organized groups on various platforms in certain campaigns that go in giant circles or triangles or whatever to constantly retake resources without actually fighting to maximize AP gains to buy items to sell for gold.

Malcontents hanging out in towns and IC waiting for the <20K HP obvious PVE player to wander by so they can kill them.

And players like me who want to minimize the amount of time spent on activities they do not enjoy such as ESO PVP, but do need certain skills locked behind such content.

VaranisArano

Dawnblade wrote: »

ZOS adds desirable rewards for players to chase during events and goes so far as to sell event tickets on the store - so I do not think they care one way or the other whether players actually enjoy the underlying event content, just that more players are willing to play the event for the rewards or pay to skip it.

It is a lot cheaper and easier for ZOS to create events and rewards and tie them to existing content as a means to keep players engaged than it is to create brand new content.

And as we have no metrics on measures of player enjoyment, even if we had metrics showing more players participating in PVP content than average, we could not conclude that more people enjoy PVP / stick around for PVP / want more PVP.

Anecdotal for sure, but I participated, and I don't care for ESO PVP.

Why then did I participate?

Why not, when I have characters that need skills locked behind PVP and can use items tied to AP - participating means I get those skills faster AND I get the event rewards AND I get AP which is useful for many things.

As to who benefits?

ZOS - more players chassing shinnies = more opportunities to sell subscriptions and cash shop items, not to mention selling tickets to those who don't want to participate but also don't want to miss the special FOMO event rewards.

PVP players in some campaigns trying to keep populations high enough to have enjoyable battles.

Players in organized groups on various platforms in certain campaigns that go in giant circles or triangles or whatever to constantly retake resources without actually fighting to maximize AP gains to buy items to sell for gold.

Malcontents hanging out in towns and IC waiting for the <20K HP obvious PVE player to wander by so they can kill them.

And players like me who want to minimize the amount of time spent on activities they do not enjoy such as ESO PVP, but do need certain skills locked behind such content.

Yeah, getting alliance war skills and AP faster is one way that players of all sorts can benefit. While ZOS makes some money from people buying the skill lines, these bi-annual events make it easy for players who're willing to do PVP content to level up without paying while spending less time than usual.

chessalavakia_ESO

Game development is a mixture of people following their passions and people trying to make money.

As a result, you have elements that primarily reflect each.

For example, I doubt Crown Crates exist because someone was really passionate about the idea of people opening crates.

I'd suggest the Imperial City represents the passionate side.

I'd question if any "suit" would be stupid enough to think that using one of the most iconic cities in their intellectual property as a PvP/PvE Hybird area where you lose things when you die would be a good idea when the majority of your intellectual properties audience is causal without some serious convincing from someone else.

I'd suggest the event is just more of the style of passion.

Ratzkifal

Well, PvPers benefit from double AP rewards, which means more activity and more and bigger fights. All of that was more relevant in the past when performance was still great but now this event is a tradition. PvErs benefit from sets like Deadly Strikes and Elfbane falling in price after the event due to the abundance of AP and people randomly getting good items from the town quests. Roleplayers and fashionistas benefit from cheaper Akaviri and Militant Ordinator styles. And not to mention being able to buy monster and item sets from the Golden with AP in the weeks following the event.

Even if some people feel like they are being made an easy target by Whitestrake's Mayham, there are benefits for all. And if you are tired of being a target you can either become good at PvP and make gankers fear you, join a group for protection, do a scouting daily or simply skip the event.

RBAP28

Gear, gold and crafting materials are not the only things that can be farmed in ESO.

Artim_X

The fact that a population exists in the normally dead IC campaigns and the fact that Cyrodiil is so packed that I cannot queue up for my main camp on my work days speaks for itself.

When I first popped into PvP after years of only doing PvE, I went on a PvE build and could see that something was amiss. This was similar to how I felt when I first popped into vMA. Ideally if something is not working, a player will be encouraged to go back to the drawing board to research how to be effective while still being able to play how they want (healer, dps, tank, or mix of the roles).

IMO the goal of the event is to get players to try something new, while also rewarding PvPers with bonus rewards for playing the content they love. Remember this is the only true PvP event (The IC one can be done via dungeons).

The problem many players have is greed. This issue occurs in PvE as well. For instance, people queuing as fake roles to benefit from random dailies or people complaining DLC dungeons should be removed from the random pool when the whole point of being rewarded for a random is the chance of getting any dungeon.

For the PvP event or even the Anniversary event, many players want to get as many boxes as possible via town quests in Cyrodiil. They aren't satisfied with just getting their tickets and popping out, nope they want it all. If it was just about tickets one could do the very easy scouting quest in Cyrodiil and pop into a campaign where the ride to the location requested is reasonable. Many of the IC quests can be done purely in stealth without being a nightblade. Just get stealth related sets that remove movement restrictions while crouched and get some invisibility pots with a dash of major expedition. Remember if you aren't geared for the content you're playing, then you're just setting yourself up for failure.

Korinth

Sarannah wrote: »

I think events like this PvP event actually ensure more players will stay away from PvP forever, because of gankers. PvP needs a major change. It is strange that players can do well over 100k DPS, compared to the amount of hp/resists we have. Making it a gankers paradise, as players die in 0.4 seconds. This leaves no room for improving, and just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. PvPers can't be proud they killed someone, and the person who died just feels bad as they had no chance to even fight back.

in my opinion PvP events are only created to feed players to the PvPers, which is just stupid. Even more so as they spread out the event tickets and only drop the styles from the IC bosses. Which can be a real pain to farm, especially for non-PvP players.

PvP needs a major change, one PvPers will very very much dislike. So that PvP will open up to everyone.

PS: Another thing that should not be possible is restealthing again and again, after attacking someone and failing. Damage from stealth is WAY too high for that.

This....ALL of this.

I will add the main reason I never really got into PvP is the PAINFUL way you have to respec your Champ points, skills, and yet another gear grind for PvP gear that changes every 3 months much like PvE gear does.

I suggested in another thread that maybe the Cyro MYM event give PvE'ers a mission behind the main base gates....so if a PvE'er WANTS to engage in PvP they can, but if they dont...then they dont have to. Its just sad you have these "elite" PvPers camping town mission daily spots so they can nuke non-PvPer's.