Who Benefits from Mayhem Event?

FlopsyPrince

NOTE: I do not expect a thing to change from any of this. The issues were a concern when I started playing 5 years ago. I just wanted to note something I have seen very little mention of. And even most of those replying against any related points have completely ignored the issue even in this thread.

francesinhalover

I enter imperial city, ask for a molag ball group, I run threw the sewers, do several molag ball runs gain hakeijos pages maybe a chance at the rare skin, My group takes care of the pvp bombers.
Because pve players can't do this event, i get to sell these pages at decent prices in the future so that's a win.

For boss hunts you need a big group, just spam heals and if ganked the group revives anyways.

renne

FYI ganking in ESO is a specific playstyle and build, and someone being killed very quickly because they're on a PvE build and therefore have no health or resistances is not "being ganked". It might feel like it, but it's not.

It's just the consequences of going into a PvP zone on a PvE build.

If you have a bit more health and resistances you're already 100x more survivable.

Jaraal

MrBrownstone wrote: »

The number of people who try out PvP and like it is higher than the number of people who try and hate it. ZoS has access to all the data, they know how many people start playing PvP after an event, they literally know that the encouragement to try the content works. Otherwise they wouldn't be doing these events at all.

So you might get ganked repeatedly because you insisted to do that same quest in the same area guarded by others but that's not the experience of the majority. Most people who PvP for the first time like it and actually give it a try. By giving it a try i mean doing research, making builds etc. instead of just getting killed until getting their tickets.

Btw most PvErs take it personal there but believe me, PvPers in IC just queue and roam the place looking for targets, pvp or pve players it doesnt matter. They're not there to specifically kill you. They just attack any enemy. They forget about you 3 seconds after the fight, you can forget about them too. Killing and getting killed is a common part of the PvP and nobody cares about it except for some PvErs who got so used to the overland where they feel immortal and they get shocked when they realize that any enemy with some proper attacks can actually kill them.

Couldn't have said it better.

And there are ways to prevent getting ganked, like increasing your health and resistances, wearing the Sea Serpent's Coil, slotting Impenetrable gear, wearing player sourced damage reducing sets, using anti-player Champion Points, learning to block and dodge effectively, and so forth.

People go into PvP areas totally unprepared, yet are shocked when avoidable things happen to them.

FlopsyPrince

Jaraal wrote: »

MrBrownstone wrote: »

The number of people who try out PvP and like it is higher than the number of people who try and hate it. ZoS has access to all the data, they know how many people start playing PvP after an event, they literally know that the encouragement to try the content works. Otherwise they wouldn't be doing these events at all.

So you might get ganked repeatedly because you insisted to do that same quest in the same area guarded by others but that's not the experience of the majority. Most people who PvP for the first time like it and actually give it a try. By giving it a try i mean doing research, making builds etc. instead of just getting killed until getting their tickets.

Btw most PvErs take it personal there but believe me, PvPers in IC just queue and roam the place looking for targets, pvp or pve players it doesnt matter. They're not there to specifically kill you. They just attack any enemy. They forget about you 3 seconds after the fight, you can forget about them too. Killing and getting killed is a common part of the PvP and nobody cares about it except for some PvErs who got so used to the overland where they feel immortal and they get shocked when they realize that any enemy with some proper attacks can actually kill them.

Couldn't have said it better.

And there are ways to prevent getting ganked, like increasing your health and resistances, wearing the Sea Serpent's Coil, slotting Impenetrable gear, wearing player sourced damage reducing sets, using anti-player Champion Points, learning to block and dodge effectively, and so forth.

People go into PvP areas totally unprepared, yet are shocked when avoidable things happen to them.

You missed my point.

A VERY LIMITED number of players will camp spots to gank people. They love it because they get easy kills. Far more players are impacted because they can't burn a siege weapon, for example. They are not roaming, looking for targets. Otherwise, going back to the same point for the quest item wouldn't lead to a death by the same player. They are camping the spot.

That is a very different case.

And complaining that some are not geared for PvP is silly. The event is marketed to all ESO players, not just those with PvP gear.

Jaimeh

Events do not have to cater to every playstyle and player out there, hence the variety of themes. I'm not saying that camping an objective isn't deplorable, but if someone wants the reward, they have to play by the rules, and also the pages are available for tickets and gold via traders with zero risk, so there's no exclusivity. I've died in IC a lot, but I found ways to minimize risks: go the new IC instance, created just for the event in off-prime time hours: I was there two hours in the sewers, farming two bosses in a loop and never saw an enemy player. When doing the quest above, I stealth throughout all objectives, if there's enemies, I wait them out, if my alliance owns the district I take more chances because I can rez there. I use immovable pots before unstealthing to do the objective, and I have decent health. It's the only event that gathers so much negativity, and I think unfairly so, because people want all the things and don't even consider their build/strategy to get tickets/pages as safely as possible, and then get frustrated when they are killed.

SeaGtGruff

shadyjane62 wrote: »

I never go into IC after the first time there. I am an 8 year pvper rank 38 almost 39. If IC was required for pvp I wouldn't do it.

I enjoy doing the dailies in the IC districts, even during "the busy season" (the PvP events) when gankers and zergers abound. Yes, they can be annoying as heck. But even so, I can still complete the dailies in a reasonably timely fashion-- not like doing the lickety-split quests for New Life, obviously, but reasonably timely all the same.

I think this event can be a lot of fun if you embrace it and lean into it, even if (like me) you really aren't a PvP player. I'm not afraid of PvP, or of dying to another player, mind you-- I just mostly stink at it. Once in a while I'll get attacked by a player who I'm able to fight off or even kill, but that's pretty rare; usually I get taken out pretty quickly.

Most of the time I don't even bother to fight back; I just keep attacking the enemies I'm supposed to kill for the dailies, or sit on my mount at the flag. If I can kill something before I get killed, I can go back and loot the corpse after I resurrect, or try to capture the resource again after the enemy players leave, or just go capture a different resource if it wasn't for a mission.

markulrich1966

I think the amount of players who really benefit is pretty low.

A campaign has 180 players simultaneously at 3 bars, on xbox you had 2-3 campaigns at 2-3 bars.
So roughly 500 playing simultaneously.

IC rarely reached 2 bars, usually just 1, so this population can be ignored.

On the other hand, steamcharts showed a decrease of players by 6% since the event, approx. 1000 players.
While during each other event you usually see an INcrease by 5-15%.

So the benefit seems to be very limited, or even none at all, in contrast.

I think there are several reasons, among PVEers the fear of PVP, the inability of ZOS to attract those players (many don't know about fallbacks like Arena District).
Among PVP players the frustration by a) lag, b) constant crashes in cyro, c) frustration being tossed around like pool billiard balls by sets like Dark Convergence, d) 1 hour queues.

Myself I'm glad that I was interested neither in the event-costume nor the indriks on my main account, just indriks on my second, so I could reduce the effort to get tickets and focus on reaching tier 1 on 10 toons and tier 3 on 15 toons on the other server, where we currently lead (for transmutes and zircon grains from reward jewelry). I did not benefit though doing it, it was not faster than usual due to queues and crashes.

kargen27

Imperial City is an absolute blast during these events. The battles are reminiscent of what took place before each district got a flag. Large battles that can last hours. Would be even more fun if the flags were disabled so players of all three factions could immediately get back to the platform and jump back into the fight.

ccfeeling

Cyrodiil is terrible lag and freeze / crash frequently , I haven't join this event , doesn't help even I have fiber network ON ,
I may try next year after ZOS promised hardware upgrade .

IC / BG is fine , but I can't enjoy the event with such small size PVP zone .

DarcyMardin

I’m a PvE player, but I benefit in the following ways:

1. Double AP makes it easier to get the few PvP skills that I like to have available for my characters.
2. Getting the first 25,000 AP in a one-month campaign results in a 50 crystal reward when the campaign ends.
3. There are skill points available from doing delves and collecting skyshards. And from advances in PvP rank, which can be achieved, if you’re patient, by mending a lot of castle walls without PvPing at all.
4. I like the look and feel of the zone, which one can ride around in all day without even seeing another player, as long as you avoid the zergs.
5. Occasionally I actually have fun setting up siege and pounding down castle walls. I don’t do it often, but it’s kinda cool!

I do agree that there’s not much to be said in favor of IC. I usually try to do enough of those quests (some of which are easy) during dead times on the server before the event even starts. But I always end up running round the districts anyway, getting killed, and, very rarely, downing an enemy player, who is probably also a PvEer if they fall to an amateur like me. I never go to IC at any other time and still haven’t done the main quest there on any of my four accounts.

I don’t really mind being ganked — let those folks have their kicks if that’s how they get them. I bank my stones and rarely lose more than a few, so it’s a free trip back to home base for me.

I do agree that it would be nice if there were a safe place to turn in the PvE quests in Cyrodiil at least. The one time I do get annoyed being ganked is when I safely complete a quest and return to the quest giver to turn it in and… whamo, I’m dead on the floor without having gotten my ticket.

Anyway, it’s only twice a year, and terrible PvPer that I am, I always participate and even enjoy it a little.

Troodon80

markulrich1966 wrote: »

On the other hand, steamcharts showed a decrease of players by 6% since the event, approx. 1000 players.
While during each other event you usually see an INcrease by 5-15%.

I would just like to point out that using metrics like Steam Charts requires some context. The argument being that because player numbers are down while an event is on, it means players must hate the event. I highly doubt people are looking at the event, hating it, and are leaving the game because of an event which is entirely optional, thus showing a decrease in numbers...

Coincidentally, player numbers have had a decline during the current very heated PTS cycle happening at the same time as the event, which has seen long-time players both quitting and saying they'll likely quit, and are going to play other MMOs.

I'm just saying, it might not all be on the event currently happening, there are plenty of reasons why numbers might be fluctuating up or down. Player numbers tend to spike when a chapter is released and then slowly decline over the following months until the next major piece of content (e.g. Q4 area DLC, not dungeons) comes out until it somewhat stabilises, then spikes again when the next chapter comes out. We're currently on that downward trend which accompanied every chapter and area DLC to date, but on top of that we have a heated/charged PTS cycle which has received an unprecedented level of negative feedback.

markulrich1966

Troodon80 wrote: »

markulrich1966 wrote: »

On the other hand, steamcharts showed a decrease of players by 6% since the event, approx. 1000 players.
While during each other event you usually see an INcrease by 5-15%.

I would just like to point out that using metrics like Steam Charts requires some context. The argument being that because player numbers are down while an event is on, it means players must hate the event. I highly doubt people are looking at the event, hating it, and are leaving the game because of an event which is entirely optional, thus showing a decrease in numbers...

Coincidentally, player numbers have had a decline during the current very heated PTS cycle happening at the same time as the event, which has seen long-time players both quitting and saying they'll likely quit, and are going to play other MMOs.

I'm just saying, it might not all be on the event currently happening, there are plenty of reasons why numbers might be fluctuating up or down. Player numbers tend to spike when a chapter is released and then slowly decline over the following months until the next major piece of content (e.g. Q4 area DLC, not dungeons) comes out until it somewhat stabilises, then spikes again when the next chapter comes out. We're currently on that downward trend which accompanied every chapter and area DLC to date, but on top of that we have a heated/charged PTS cycle which has received an unprecedented level of negative feedback.

The strong decline started right when the event started, while the PTS nerfs are a topic since 3-4 weeks already.
And also last time MYM caused a decline if I remember well.

I concur that there are many factors (additional like holiday), but because of the mentioned reasons and frustrated comments in Cyrodiil-chat it is likely for me that fustration with this event plays a vital role (there also is an own crash-thread here in the forum).

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding

WinterHeart626

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

FluffWit wrote: »

I told you a week ago you could do the Arena district daily without leaving the safety of your spawn point Flopsy.

You are wrong, at least in part. Yes, you can stand in the area where you are completely protected, but that relies on others doing the work for you, something that is not always the case, and something that can likely get you kicked out of the game for inaction if you get bored of standing there doing nothing and get into something else. That is not also a good gameplay choice for ZOS to provide.

I was in that "safe point" and just got ganked. And it appears that player is now camping the area. Repeat again how you can do it here and be "safe"....

Encouraging play to gank those who are just trying to complete a quest is not a good thing.

Then perhaps, just maybe, ah, crouch. You know if you wear medium armour, have stealth points and crouch, most people will need to be within 7 metres of you to gank you right? That “safe zone” is only safe if you’re not seen, there’s ways to nail people up there, just as there’s ways to nail people down below.

Jaraal

Troodon80 wrote: »

markulrich1966 wrote: »

On the other hand, steamcharts showed a decrease of players by 6% since the event, approx. 1000 players.
While during each other event you usually see an INcrease by 5-15%.

I would just like to point out that using metrics like Steam Charts requires some context. The argument being that because player numbers are down while an event is on, it means players must hate the event. I highly doubt people are looking at the event, hating it, and are leaving the game because of an event which is entirely optional, thus showing a decrease in numbers...

Agreed. I doubt people are not logging in because of an event. More likely that they have stopped playing based on the horrid changes soon to befall us in a couple of weeks.

kevkj

Based on what I've seen, the reason people struggle to complete Imperial City quests is because they are bad at PVE not PVP. A good PVE build melts through all the mobs, you can be in and out within 2 minutes. It's the ones who spend a whole minute dueling a Xivkyn that end up struggling because they open themselves up to be an easy target for an extended period of time.

No one can force you embrace the PVP nature of these zones, but at least take the time to put together a build that kills the quest mobs quickly.

VaranisArano

I don't have any problem believing that there are fewer gankers than there are players annoyed by ganking. I have no problems believing that being ganked is not fun for some players.

I just don't think it matters. Fun is a mindset. Having fun is primarily your responsibility. If you can only have fun while you're winning, then PVP is going to be a shock.

If someone does one or more of the following:

- dislikes PVP but goes there anyway for rewards griping all the way
- doesn't prepare for PVP, but complains when they die too quickly
- doesn't take any of the advice that's given for how to get event tickets, then gripes about struggling to get event tickets
- sits on the Arena tower and pew-pews down, then gets upset when someone has the temerity to pew-pew back up at them
- dies in a predictable manner, then gets aggravated about it, and turns all of the blame on the person who killed them and ZOS who ran this PVP event in the first place

Then that player is unlikely to have a fun experience. How could they? They've set themselves up to have the opposite.

It is not ZOS' responsibility to somehow make Whitestrake's Mayhem "fun" for people who are only happy when all their content is as easy as winning against PVE NPCs. This event is a celebration of PVP as a part of ESO, and it should not be anything less.

LannStone

PVE player here who goes into Cyro for transmute crystals
This event makes it twice as easy to get those 25K AP on each character for the crystals
I do the Cyro quests for the tickets, but that's not the main draw for me - the double AP is the main draw for me
So the event is a great benefit to me

katanagirl1

Don’t do the Cyrodiil town quests. Most of them require you to enter a building to turn in the quest, and players from other factions will camp those spots for easy kills.

I have benefited greatly from the event, only one House Dufort style page drop but I got double AP, got cold fire siege, tel var, and the two battle scar runeboxes which I hear are a rare drop.

Sarannah

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

I think events like this PvP event actually ensure more players will stay away from PvP forever, because of gankers. PvP needs a major change. It is strange that players can do well over 100k DPS, compared to the amount of hp/resists we have. Making it a gankers paradise, as players die in 0.4 seconds. This leaves no room for improving, and just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. PvPers can't be proud they killed someone, and the person who died just feels bad as they had no chance to even fight back.

in my opinion PvP events are only created to feed players to the PvPers, which is just stupid. Even more so as they spread out the event tickets and only drop the styles from the IC bosses. Which can be a real pain to farm, especially for non-PvP players.

PvP needs a major change, one PvPers will very very much dislike. So that PvP will open up to everyone.

PS: Another thing that should not be possible is restealthing again and again, after attacking someone and failing. Damage from stealth is WAY too high for that.

PvE players ARE NOT victims in the game of ESO or during the MYM events. MYM is the ONLY PvP event ESO has, so please, please stop trying to play the victim card.

In addition, you're complaints only apply to NB's. So your problem isn't with PvP, it's with NB's who get to fight while invisible.

We don't need to change PvP to accomodate those who have not played enough to learn how to deal with PvP fights. The PvE players need to get out of their safe zone, which is 95% of the game and learn to PvP some.

PvE players are victims during the PvP events. As in order to get the tickets and styles, we NEED to be and stay in the PvP zone for a very long time. So yes, that makes PvE players victims.

And I disagree that my complaint is only about nightblades. The ratio DPS vs health/resistances is WAY off. Someone who can parse over 100k DPS can kill a player within a second. No matter who they are, or what class the attacker is on. Leaving no room to fight back. So in my opinion PvP does need major changes.

And I do feel we need to change PvP in order to accomodate it to those who do not PvP. As the tickets and styles are hidden behind those areas. And in order to get more players into PvP, ZOS needs to target the biggest audience for it. Which is not PvPers, but the other 95% of the game.

But let's just agree to disagree. We all want more players in PvP and for PvP to be accessible to more players, we just think majorly different on how to achieve that. Let's hope PvP one day will thrive!

MrBrownstone

Sarannah wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

I think events like this PvP event actually ensure more players will stay away from PvP forever, because of gankers. PvP needs a major change. It is strange that players can do well over 100k DPS, compared to the amount of hp/resists we have. Making it a gankers paradise, as players die in 0.4 seconds. This leaves no room for improving, and just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. PvPers can't be proud they killed someone, and the person who died just feels bad as they had no chance to even fight back.

in my opinion PvP events are only created to feed players to the PvPers, which is just stupid. Even more so as they spread out the event tickets and only drop the styles from the IC bosses. Which can be a real pain to farm, especially for non-PvP players.

PvP needs a major change, one PvPers will very very much dislike. So that PvP will open up to everyone.

PS: Another thing that should not be possible is restealthing again and again, after attacking someone and failing. Damage from stealth is WAY too high for that.

PvE players ARE NOT victims in the game of ESO or during the MYM events. MYM is the ONLY PvP event ESO has, so please, please stop trying to play the victim card.

In addition, you're complaints only apply to NB's. So your problem isn't with PvP, it's with NB's who get to fight while invisible.

We don't need to change PvP to accomodate those who have not played enough to learn how to deal with PvP fights. The PvE players need to get out of their safe zone, which is 95% of the game and learn to PvP some.

PvE players are victims during the PvP events. As in order to get the tickets and styles, we NEED to be and stay in the PvP zone for a very long time. So yes, that makes PvE players victims.

And I disagree that my complaint is only about nightblades. The ratio DPS vs health/resistances is WAY off. Someone who can parse over 100k DPS can kill a player within a second. No matter who they are, or what class the attacker is on. Leaving no room to fight back. So in my opinion PvP does need major changes.

And I do feel we need to change PvP in order to accomodate it to those who do not PvP. As the tickets and styles are hidden behind those areas. And in order to get more players into PvP, ZOS needs to target the biggest audience for it. Which is not PvPers, but the other 95% of the game.

But let's just agree to disagree. We all want more players in PvP and for PvP to be accessible to more players, we just think majorly different on how to achieve that. Let's hope PvP one day will thrive!

Your comment shows how much you actually know about the numbers in this game. That 100k dps is only possible in an organized trial with 12 people and only in PvE. If your character is even capable of doing 100k (with tons of group buffs) then that's a PvE build and will get instakilled in PvP because of the lack of defenses. There is no way a PvP player to be able to do 100k, its maybe 20k at best and that will be for a very short window. "Dps" is a useless number in PvP anyway since PvP is about burst damage while PvE is about sustained damage.

Only if you knew the actual numbers instead of making them up, maybe you wouldn't suggest things like "battle spirit should add 1m hp". It's so wrong i thought it was a joke at first.

Sarannah

MrBrownstone wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

I think events like this PvP event actually ensure more players will stay away from PvP forever, because of gankers. PvP needs a major change. It is strange that players can do well over 100k DPS, compared to the amount of hp/resists we have. Making it a gankers paradise, as players die in 0.4 seconds. This leaves no room for improving, and just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. PvPers can't be proud they killed someone, and the person who died just feels bad as they had no chance to even fight back.

in my opinion PvP events are only created to feed players to the PvPers, which is just stupid. Even more so as they spread out the event tickets and only drop the styles from the IC bosses. Which can be a real pain to farm, especially for non-PvP players.

PvP needs a major change, one PvPers will very very much dislike. So that PvP will open up to everyone.

PS: Another thing that should not be possible is restealthing again and again, after attacking someone and failing. Damage from stealth is WAY too high for that.

PvE players ARE NOT victims in the game of ESO or during the MYM events. MYM is the ONLY PvP event ESO has, so please, please stop trying to play the victim card.

In addition, you're complaints only apply to NB's. So your problem isn't with PvP, it's with NB's who get to fight while invisible.

We don't need to change PvP to accomodate those who have not played enough to learn how to deal with PvP fights. The PvE players need to get out of their safe zone, which is 95% of the game and learn to PvP some.

PvE players are victims during the PvP events. As in order to get the tickets and styles, we NEED to be and stay in the PvP zone for a very long time. So yes, that makes PvE players victims.

And I disagree that my complaint is only about nightblades. The ratio DPS vs health/resistances is WAY off. Someone who can parse over 100k DPS can kill a player within a second. No matter who they are, or what class the attacker is on. Leaving no room to fight back. So in my opinion PvP does need major changes.

And I do feel we need to change PvP in order to accomodate it to those who do not PvP. As the tickets and styles are hidden behind those areas. And in order to get more players into PvP, ZOS needs to target the biggest audience for it. Which is not PvPers, but the other 95% of the game.

But let's just agree to disagree. We all want more players in PvP and for PvP to be accessible to more players, we just think majorly different on how to achieve that. Let's hope PvP one day will thrive!

Your comment shows how much you actually know about the numbers in this game. That 100k dps is only possible in an organized trial with 12 people and only in PvE. If your character is even capable of doing 100k (with tons of group buffs) then that's a PvE build and will get instakilled in PvP because of the lack of defenses. There is no way a PvP player to be able to do 100k, its maybe 20k at best and that will be for a very short window. "Dps" is a useless number in PvP anyway since PvP is about burst damage while PvE is about sustained damage.

Only if you knew the actual numbers instead of making them up, maybe you wouldn't suggest things like "battle spirit should add 1m hp". It's so wrong i thought it was a joke at first.

You do realize that 20k in PvP is around an ~80k DPS character. Lets do some math:

Lets assume a PvP build has maximum resists(33k), has a 30% damage reduction(CP, skills, etc), and has around 40k health. If a player doing 100k DPS attacks that PvP player, they will do 100k - 30k - 33k = 37k effective DPS. Your 20k effective DPS is actually an ~80k DPS, but more realistic as it is PvP.
But lets take your 20k effective DPS, and place it as damage against a character. Even the tankiest players have only 40-50k health, lets take that 50k health. That 20k effective DPS versus the 50k health character, means that character dies in 2.5 seconds. Realistic builds in PvP have 30-40k health tops. Meaning they die in 1.5-2.0 seconds, from not even the top DPS.
Keep in mind, some players can burst well over 100k, making fights last below one second. And this is against a PvP build, a PvE build with no/low reductions and no/low resistances would die even faster.

Add CC's into the mix, and the player who catches the other offguard, wins due to the target being stunned half that time(or the entire time). Which is not what I call PvP. In my mind PvP allows both parties to fight back somewhat, even if they do so terribly. If battle spirit added 1M health, fights would last much longer(8+ seconds). Allowing players to have fun, and attack back. Not letting CC and being caught offguard decide 99% of the fight's outcomes. But actual battles.

So I do not see burst damage as real PvP, real PvP should work more similar to the sustained PvE type.

PS: The 1M health was just an idea though. If that were to be implemented, resources and some other things would have to be adjusted as well. But there are many more options to how to increase the fighttime.
PPS: Some battles last longer, due to heals, damage shields, and immunities. But overall the above example is how ESO's PvP currently works.

FlopsyPrince

WinterHeart626 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

FluffWit wrote: »

I told you a week ago you could do the Arena district daily without leaving the safety of your spawn point Flopsy.

You are wrong, at least in part. Yes, you can stand in the area where you are completely protected, but that relies on others doing the work for you, something that is not always the case, and something that can likely get you kicked out of the game for inaction if you get bored of standing there doing nothing and get into something else. That is not also a good gameplay choice for ZOS to provide.

I was in that "safe point" and just got ganked. And it appears that player is now camping the area. Repeat again how you can do it here and be "safe"....

Encouraging play to gank those who are just trying to complete a quest is not a good thing.

Then perhaps, just maybe, ah, crouch. You know if you wear medium armour, have stealth points and crouch, most people will need to be within 7 metres of you to gank you right? That “safe zone” is only safe if you’re not seen, there’s ways to nail people up there, just as there’s ways to nail people down below.

I was killing a mob to "free" the people. Crouching would not help/be possible. I also don't think the "7 meters" is accurate any longer. The archers were far from close, probably farther than I could launch a Crystal Blast. That ignores other methods.

This time I was right at the edge to hit the guard, but the enemy player was still farther away. The point there is that it was not "safe" if I wanted to get people freed without waiting for others.

Though the issue of being able to attack to the platform easier than down remains. Several other AOE attacks can be placed on a platform.

I did find I got credit for people others freed standing on the side of the opening below nearer the main door, but that requires others are freeing people. I have only validated that works on the AD platform. I am not sure it would work on both of the others, especially one that does not have anyone directly under the platform.

FlopsyPrince

Sarannah wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

I think events like this PvP event actually ensure more players will stay away from PvP forever, because of gankers. PvP needs a major change. It is strange that players can do well over 100k DPS, compared to the amount of hp/resists we have. Making it a gankers paradise, as players die in 0.4 seconds. This leaves no room for improving, and just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. PvPers can't be proud they killed someone, and the person who died just feels bad as they had no chance to even fight back.

in my opinion PvP events are only created to feed players to the PvPers, which is just stupid. Even more so as they spread out the event tickets and only drop the styles from the IC bosses. Which can be a real pain to farm, especially for non-PvP players.

PvP needs a major change, one PvPers will very very much dislike. So that PvP will open up to everyone.

PS: Another thing that should not be possible is restealthing again and again, after attacking someone and failing. Damage from stealth is WAY too high for that.

PvE players ARE NOT victims in the game of ESO or during the MYM events. MYM is the ONLY PvP event ESO has, so please, please stop trying to play the victim card.

In addition, you're complaints only apply to NB's. So your problem isn't with PvP, it's with NB's who get to fight while invisible.

We don't need to change PvP to accomodate those who have not played enough to learn how to deal with PvP fights. The PvE players need to get out of their safe zone, which is 95% of the game and learn to PvP some.

PvE players are victims during the PvP events. As in order to get the tickets and styles, we NEED to be and stay in the PvP zone for a very long time. So yes, that makes PvE players victims.

And I disagree that my complaint is only about nightblades. The ratio DPS vs health/resistances is WAY off. Someone who can parse over 100k DPS can kill a player within a second. No matter who they are, or what class the attacker is on. Leaving no room to fight back. So in my opinion PvP does need major changes.

And I do feel we need to change PvP in order to accomodate it to those who do not PvP. As the tickets and styles are hidden behind those areas. And in order to get more players into PvP, ZOS needs to target the biggest audience for it. Which is not PvPers, but the other 95% of the game.

But let's just agree to disagree. We all want more players in PvP and for PvP to be accessible to more players, we just think majorly different on how to achieve that. Let's hope PvP one day will thrive!

You have to have a way for a number to join PvP if you want new players to sustain the overall PvP group. I will never be twitchy enough to do really well in it, but I don't have a way to play against others of my own level as it is now. THAT is a major shortcoming.

The event problem could be removed by keeping all the rewards and unhooking the tickets from direct action, like the birthday cake.

FlopsyPrince

Sarannah wrote: »

MrBrownstone wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

I think events like this PvP event actually ensure more players will stay away from PvP forever, because of gankers. PvP needs a major change. It is strange that players can do well over 100k DPS, compared to the amount of hp/resists we have. Making it a gankers paradise, as players die in 0.4 seconds. This leaves no room for improving, and just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. PvPers can't be proud they killed someone, and the person who died just feels bad as they had no chance to even fight back.

in my opinion PvP events are only created to feed players to the PvPers, which is just stupid. Even more so as they spread out the event tickets and only drop the styles from the IC bosses. Which can be a real pain to farm, especially for non-PvP players.

PvP needs a major change, one PvPers will very very much dislike. So that PvP will open up to everyone.

PS: Another thing that should not be possible is restealthing again and again, after attacking someone and failing. Damage from stealth is WAY too high for that.

PvE players ARE NOT victims in the game of ESO or during the MYM events. MYM is the ONLY PvP event ESO has, so please, please stop trying to play the victim card.

In addition, you're complaints only apply to NB's. So your problem isn't with PvP, it's with NB's who get to fight while invisible.

We don't need to change PvP to accomodate those who have not played enough to learn how to deal with PvP fights. The PvE players need to get out of their safe zone, which is 95% of the game and learn to PvP some.

PvE players are victims during the PvP events. As in order to get the tickets and styles, we NEED to be and stay in the PvP zone for a very long time. So yes, that makes PvE players victims.

And I disagree that my complaint is only about nightblades. The ratio DPS vs health/resistances is WAY off. Someone who can parse over 100k DPS can kill a player within a second. No matter who they are, or what class the attacker is on. Leaving no room to fight back. So in my opinion PvP does need major changes.

And I do feel we need to change PvP in order to accomodate it to those who do not PvP. As the tickets and styles are hidden behind those areas. And in order to get more players into PvP, ZOS needs to target the biggest audience for it. Which is not PvPers, but the other 95% of the game.

But let's just agree to disagree. We all want more players in PvP and for PvP to be accessible to more players, we just think majorly different on how to achieve that. Let's hope PvP one day will thrive!

Your comment shows how much you actually know about the numbers in this game. That 100k dps is only possible in an organized trial with 12 people and only in PvE. If your character is even capable of doing 100k (with tons of group buffs) then that's a PvE build and will get instakilled in PvP because of the lack of defenses. There is no way a PvP player to be able to do 100k, its maybe 20k at best and that will be for a very short window. "Dps" is a useless number in PvP anyway since PvP is about burst damage while PvE is about sustained damage.

Only if you knew the actual numbers instead of making them up, maybe you wouldn't suggest things like "battle spirit should add 1m hp". It's so wrong i thought it was a joke at first.

You do realize that 20k in PvP is around an ~80k DPS character. Lets do some math:

Lets assume a PvP build has maximum resists(33k), has a 30% damage reduction(CP, skills, etc), and has around 40k health. If a player doing 100k DPS attacks that PvP player, they will do 100k - 30k - 33k = 37k effective DPS. Your 20k effective DPS is actually an ~80k DPS, but more realistic as it is PvP.
But lets take your 20k effective DPS, and place it as damage against a character. Even the tankiest players have only 40-50k health, lets take that 50k health. That 20k effective DPS versus the 50k health character, means that character dies in 2.5 seconds. Realistic builds in PvP have 30-40k health tops. Meaning they die in 1.5-2.0 seconds, from not even the top DPS.
Keep in mind, some players can burst well over 100k, making fights last below one second. And this is against a PvP build, a PvE build with no/low reductions and no/low resistances would die even faster.

Add CC's into the mix, and the player who catches the other offguard, wins due to the target being stunned half that time(or the entire time). Which is not what I call PvP. In my mind PvP allows both parties to fight back somewhat, even if they do so terribly. If battle spirit added 1M health, fights would last much longer(8+ seconds). Allowing players to have fun, and attack back. Not letting CC and being caught offguard decide 99% of the fight's outcomes. But actual battles.

So I do not see burst damage as real PvP, real PvP should work more similar to the sustained PvE type.

PS: The 1M health was just an idea though. If that were to be implemented, resources and some other things would have to be adjusted as well. But there are many more options to how to increase the fighttime.
PPS: Some battles last longer, due to heals, damage shields, and immunities. But overall the above example is how ESO's PvP currently works.

I was 1-shotted earlier tonight by someone with a flame staff making a single shot, light attack or skill. I am a squishy pet sorc, but 1 hit at full health with someone running by?

kevkj

Sarannah wrote: »

As in order to get the tickets and styles, we NEED to be and stay in the PvP zone for a very long time.

I touched on this my comment earlier, but this tells me that you are the exact kind of player I was referring to. You really should not have to spend a "very long" time in the zone to get your ticket.

I'm sure sometimes you are just unlucky and get attacked before you can even start working on your quest, but for it to really be a lengthy task that you can measure in hours instead of minutes means that part of the problem is struggling to kill mobs/guards in IC/Cyro. This is a problem you can solve without having a separate pvp centric build.

Jaraal

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

MrBrownstone wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

I think events like this PvP event actually ensure more players will stay away from PvP forever, because of gankers. PvP needs a major change. It is strange that players can do well over 100k DPS, compared to the amount of hp/resists we have. Making it a gankers paradise, as players die in 0.4 seconds. This leaves no room for improving, and just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. PvPers can't be proud they killed someone, and the person who died just feels bad as they had no chance to even fight back.

in my opinion PvP events are only created to feed players to the PvPers, which is just stupid. Even more so as they spread out the event tickets and only drop the styles from the IC bosses. Which can be a real pain to farm, especially for non-PvP players.

PvP needs a major change, one PvPers will very very much dislike. So that PvP will open up to everyone.

PS: Another thing that should not be possible is restealthing again and again, after attacking someone and failing. Damage from stealth is WAY too high for that.

PvE players ARE NOT victims in the game of ESO or during the MYM events. MYM is the ONLY PvP event ESO has, so please, please stop trying to play the victim card.

In addition, you're complaints only apply to NB's. So your problem isn't with PvP, it's with NB's who get to fight while invisible.

We don't need to change PvP to accomodate those who have not played enough to learn how to deal with PvP fights. The PvE players need to get out of their safe zone, which is 95% of the game and learn to PvP some.

PvE players are victims during the PvP events. As in order to get the tickets and styles, we NEED to be and stay in the PvP zone for a very long time. So yes, that makes PvE players victims.

And I disagree that my complaint is only about nightblades. The ratio DPS vs health/resistances is WAY off. Someone who can parse over 100k DPS can kill a player within a second. No matter who they are, or what class the attacker is on. Leaving no room to fight back. So in my opinion PvP does need major changes.

And I do feel we need to change PvP in order to accomodate it to those who do not PvP. As the tickets and styles are hidden behind those areas. And in order to get more players into PvP, ZOS needs to target the biggest audience for it. Which is not PvPers, but the other 95% of the game.

But let's just agree to disagree. We all want more players in PvP and for PvP to be accessible to more players, we just think majorly different on how to achieve that. Let's hope PvP one day will thrive!

Your comment shows how much you actually know about the numbers in this game. That 100k dps is only possible in an organized trial with 12 people and only in PvE. If your character is even capable of doing 100k (with tons of group buffs) then that's a PvE build and will get instakilled in PvP because of the lack of defenses. There is no way a PvP player to be able to do 100k, its maybe 20k at best and that will be for a very short window. "Dps" is a useless number in PvP anyway since PvP is about burst damage while PvE is about sustained damage.

Only if you knew the actual numbers instead of making them up, maybe you wouldn't suggest things like "battle spirit should add 1m hp". It's so wrong i thought it was a joke at first.

You do realize that 20k in PvP is around an ~80k DPS character. Lets do some math:

Lets assume a PvP build has maximum resists(33k), has a 30% damage reduction(CP, skills, etc), and has around 40k health. If a player doing 100k DPS attacks that PvP player, they will do 100k - 30k - 33k = 37k effective DPS. Your 20k effective DPS is actually an ~80k DPS, but more realistic as it is PvP.
But lets take your 20k effective DPS, and place it as damage against a character. Even the tankiest players have only 40-50k health, lets take that 50k health. That 20k effective DPS versus the 50k health character, means that character dies in 2.5 seconds. Realistic builds in PvP have 30-40k health tops. Meaning they die in 1.5-2.0 seconds, from not even the top DPS.
Keep in mind, some players can burst well over 100k, making fights last below one second. And this is against a PvP build, a PvE build with no/low reductions and no/low resistances would die even faster.

Add CC's into the mix, and the player who catches the other offguard, wins due to the target being stunned half that time(or the entire time). Which is not what I call PvP. In my mind PvP allows both parties to fight back somewhat, even if they do so terribly. If battle spirit added 1M health, fights would last much longer(8+ seconds). Allowing players to have fun, and attack back. Not letting CC and being caught offguard decide 99% of the fight's outcomes. But actual battles.

So I do not see burst damage as real PvP, real PvP should work more similar to the sustained PvE type.

PS: The 1M health was just an idea though. If that were to be implemented, resources and some other things would have to be adjusted as well. But there are many more options to how to increase the fighttime.
PPS: Some battles last longer, due to heals, damage shields, and immunities. But overall the above example is how ESO's PvP currently works.

I was 1-shotted earlier tonight by someone with a flame staff making a single shot, light attack or skill. I am a squishy pet sorc, but 1 hit at full health with someone running by?

Lol just wait until Update 35 drops and everybody will be oneshotting you with resto staves instead!

Inferno and Ice Staff Heavy Attacks: Damage reduced by approximately 26%.

Restoration Staff Heavy Attacks: Damage increased by approximately 6%

Lightning Staff Heavy Attacks: Damage reduced by approximately 2%

Tommy_The_Gun

As someone who does PvP often outside of the PvP events I can say that amount of gankers is abnormal during events. It is more or less 700% of what one can encounter normally. Very similar situation in case of broken / toxic / annoying builds. The amount of DC procs or Caluurion procs for example. I also noticed that 70% of players are DKs, and I don't recall seeing this many DKs outside of events.

It is as if players simply looked up what is the most OP cookie-cutter build and made one fast, moments before the event, so they could "pray on the weak", newer players, seal clubbing them (smurfing). Because, here is the thing: when I play in Cyro outside of the event - I don't see any new players. It is same accounts, over & over again. There is no influx of new players. New players appear only during events and for a very short time.

Ye_Olde_Crowe

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I enjoy doing the dailies in the IC districts, even during "the busy season" (the PvP events) when gankers and zergers abound. Yes, they can be annoying as heck. But even so, I can still complete the dailies in a reasonably timely fashion-- not like doing the lickety-split quests for New Life, obviously, but reasonably timely all the same.

I think this event can be a lot of fun if you embrace it and lean into it, even if (like me) you really aren't a PvP player. I'm not afraid of PvP, or of dying to another player, mind you-- I just mostly stink at it. Once in a while I'll get attacked by a player who I'm able to fight off or even kill, but that's pretty rare; usually I get taken out pretty quickly.

Most of the time I don't even bother to fight back; I just keep attacking the enemies I'm supposed to kill for the dailies, or sit on my mount at the flag. If I can kill something before I get killed, I can go back and loot the corpse after I resurrect, or try to capture the resource again after the enemy players leave, or just go capture a different resource if it wasn't for a mission.

Exactly my thoughts. Couldn‘t have said it better.