Sorc Adjustments that Should Come to PTS Week 4

prof_doom

So, is armaments actually still worth taking, or do I just find something else for the skill slot?

WrathOfInnos

prof_doom wrote: »

So, is armaments actually still worth taking, or do I just find something else for the skill slot?

@prof_doom Need to do more testing with a real rotation, but given the numbers on PTS right now it seems to be worth taking for PVE DPS. It gives 1.65X a spammable on proc, and averages 1.5X with perfect weaving if you account for the initial zero damage cast. That is better than Crystal Weapon's 1.4X per cast. If Crystal Weapon is fixed to match the patch notes (1.45) it would be a close decision, and maybe only worth slotting for short bursty encounters.

I won't comment in PvP, too dependent on opponent behavior.

Minalan

Great, so if we’re a magicka Sorc then it’s back to zookeeper builds.

Pretty much the build posted above, except swap out one set for Necropotence?

This is terrible.

MashmalloMan

Minalan wrote: »

Great, so if we’re a magicka Sorc then it’s back to zookeeper builds.

Pretty much the build posted above, except swap out one set for Necropotence?

This is terrible.

A better solution is to not play at all. Even if I get that little itch to play, I'm going to avoid this patch. It's the only way to show them this update should of been reverted. Vote with your wallet.

Honestly I knew most of what I suggested wouldn't be addressed because there simply wasn't enough time, anything they are considering from this discussion and from other area's of the forum are not going to be implemented for 3-6 months at best. Realistically with their track record, years. By week 1 of the PTS, you generally know where their focus is, what they'll adjust is usually only whats been touched on like Crystal Weapon, Bound Armaments or Pets.

I was hoping at minimum, BA could get a longer duration and Shields could dynamically scale.

Crystal Weapon just needs a complete redesign at this point.

MetallicMonk

Bad game dead class.

xDeusEJRx

Mag sorc now a support main class kek.

"Play how you want", more like "play how we want you to"

universal_wrath

Minalan wrote: »

Great, so if we’re a magicka Sorc then it’s back to zookeeper builds.

Pretty much the build posted above, except swap out one set for Necropotence?

This is terrible.

Don't use necropotence, it sucks in both PvE and PvP. Yiu are better off with ritualist or other pet set in PvE and more better devensive/offensive set in PvP.

Minalan

universal_wrath wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Great, so if we’re a magicka Sorc then it’s back to zookeeper builds.

Pretty much the build posted above, except swap out one set for Necropotence?

This is terrible.

Don't use necropotence, it sucks in both PvE and PvP. Yiu are better off with ritualist or other pet set in PvE and more better devensive/offensive set in PvP.

Which offensive/defensive sets? I’m at a loss as to what’s good anymore. Draugr is no longer worth slotting:.

Minalan

I can't let this die. Let me get this straight, to balance sorc, you increased the PET DAMAGE on the skill DAEDRIC PREY when the PET likely won't live long enough to benefit from the buff?

ZOS. You're going to have to do better. Seriously. Get it in gear and go back to the design table and add at least one more decent buff for all the nerfs you've handed out this patch.

Tannus15

things are looking a lot less grim as long as you use the pets





crystal weapon + BA is also much better, though i find it more work than it's worth still



3m parse for easier live comparison


so we're still looking at something like a 15% dps loss, but no where near as bad as the 25% loss from week 1 and the 10% boss health nerf should help some with that

Zabagad

Tannus15 wrote: »

things are looking a lot less grim as long as you use the pets[...]

I'm so happy for you PvE (mag)Sorcs, but:

#BuffPvPNoPetMagSorc

Tannus15

Zabagad wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

things are looking a lot less grim as long as you use the pets[...]

I'm so happy for you PvE (mag)Sorcs, but:

#BuffPvPNoPetMagSorc

No pet is bad across the board.
Honestly it's not really an option.

Glantir

Tannus15 wrote: »

things are looking a lot less grim as long as you use the pets

so we're still looking at something like a 15% dps loss, but no where near as bad as the 25% loss from week 1 and the 10% boss health nerf should help some with that

Meanwhile Templars doing over 130k with Medium Weave. While Sorc cant, due to no good Empower source

And dont forget the Dummy got some more buffs, so your 113k is more like 100k on live or even less

Savagejack

I thought they would change the channel time of Bound Armaments to 0.8 sec like Jabs and Rapid Strikes

Minalan

Tannus15 wrote: »

things are looking a lot less grim as long as you use the pets





crystal weapon + BA is also much better, though i find it more work than it's worth still



3m parse for easier live comparison


so we're still looking at something like a 15% dps loss, but no where near as bad as the 25% loss from week 1 and the 10% boss health nerf should help some with that

Pets have never been a good option for PVP though. Unless I’m really wrong about that and it changed this patch.

Zabagad

Tannus15 wrote: »

No pet is bad across the board.
Honestly it's not really an option.

I'm not sure you saw the PvP in the hashtag?

Zabagad wrote: »

#BuffPvPNoPetMagSorc

If you really mean with "across the board" including PvP, I would be surprised because I think there are not many (good) Pet-Sorcs in PvP.
But maybe I'm wrong and on NA it's different then on EU?

Falcon_of_light

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Exploitation should give crit damage just like NB hemorrhage passive does. Same concept of a passive but sorc one is just worse.

so maybe u want nb fear instead of having streak? imagine no gapcloser, no damage, no escape, higher manacost and mmmm fear for few seconds instead of streak, will be this fair?

duckdown

Please make lightning form tick every 1s.

MetallicMonk

Falcon_of_light wrote: »

so maybe u want nb fear instead of having streak? imagine no gapcloser, no damage, no escape, higher manacost and mmmm fear for few seconds instead of streak, will be this fair?

Nightblade is way more powerful than sorcerer but keep coping, go ahead and play sorcerer if you think it's amazing.

Tannus15 wrote: »

things are looking a lot less grim as long as you use the pets





crystal weapon + BA is also much better, though i find it more work than it's worth still



3m parse for easier live comparison


so we're still looking at something like a 15% dps loss, but no where near as bad as the 25% loss from week 1 and the 10% boss health nerf should help some with that

So basically the class that has abysmal cleave and should excel at single target encounters still does less single target dps than the other classes? Sounds about right these days.

MashmalloMan

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Falcon_of_light wrote: »

so maybe u want nb fear instead of having streak? imagine no gapcloser, no damage, no escape, higher manacost and mmmm fear for few seconds instead of streak, will be this fair?

Nightblade is way more powerful than sorcerer but keep coping, go ahead and play sorcerer if you think it's amazing.

Tannus15 wrote: »

things are looking a lot less grim as long as you use the pets





crystal weapon + BA is also much better, though i find it more work than it's worth still



3m parse for easier live comparison


so we're still looking at something like a 15% dps loss, but no where near as bad as the 25% loss from week 1 and the 10% boss health nerf should help some with that

So basically the class that has abysmal cleave and should excel at single target encounters still does less single target dps than the other classes? Sounds about right these days.

ZOS doesn't balance with context, they balance on dummy parses, based on the highest possible dps someone can do. Thats all that matters to them nowadays. That is the entirety of class identity. All classes need to do the same potential ceiling of dps on a dummy or incoming nerfs abound. Could be single target, aoe, stupid AI connected to killable pets outside trials, doesn't matter to them.

Slap an over-buff on Daedric Prey they will inevitably walk back in U36 to artifically boost our pve dps for an awful patch. Class fixed right? You're welcome.

Tannus15

by far my preferred option would have been a buff to lightning flood, ideally the +shock damage debuff we discussed.
buff LF with +shock damage and it's a buff for endless fury in PvE as well, making fury + flood a good alternative to scamp

Glantir

Tannus15 wrote: »

by far my preferred option would have been a buff to lightning flood, ideally the +shock damage debuff we discussed.
buff LF with +shock damage and it's a buff for endless fury in PvE as well, making fury + flood a good alternative to scamp

Well, scamp also deal shock Damage ^^

Tannus15

Glantir wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

by far my preferred option would have been a buff to lightning flood, ideally the +shock damage debuff we discussed.
buff LF with +shock damage and it's a buff for endless fury in PvE as well, making fury + flood a good alternative to scamp

Well, scamp also deal shock Damage ^^

scamp pulse doesn't

but you make a great point that all the other pet damage IS shock damage, so you could effectively do the same thing as the prey buff by adding +shock damage to flood. leave prey at 20%, add 10% shock damage to lightning flood and you can buff more of the sorc kit as well as provide some more cleave AND add another buff for the group.

with one buff you revive the sorc "shock" identity, fix the sorc cleave issues and revive a pretty much dead skill as well as prop up the sorc dps to where it should be.

MashmalloMan

Tannus15 wrote: »

Glantir wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

by far my preferred option would have been a buff to lightning flood, ideally the +shock damage debuff we discussed.
buff LF with +shock damage and it's a buff for endless fury in PvE as well, making fury + flood a good alternative to scamp

Well, scamp also deal shock Damage ^^

scamp pulse doesn't

but you make a great point that all the other pet damage IS shock damage, so you could effectively do the same thing as the prey buff by adding +shock damage to flood. leave prey at 20%, add 10% shock damage to lightning flood and you can buff more of the sorc kit as well as provide some more cleave AND add another buff for the group.

with one buff you revive the sorc "shock" identity, fix the sorc cleave issues and revive a pretty much dead skill as well as prop up the sorc dps to where it should be.

Volatile Familiar deals 100% shock damage with the auto attack and the aoe pulses.

But yeah.. if you changed a few things, no pet sorc would be more viable whle not really touching the performance of pet sorc - the over buff to prey was a bandaid to make our pve dps look better after the pet nerfs. I give it 1 patch before they nerf Prey again to something more reasonable like 30-35%. It's the whole CW fiasco all over again. Enjoy Prey while it lasts

Change:

• Lightning Flood debuffs targets for +6% shock damage taken
• Fury gets a direct damage (instead of delayed burst) morph that allows it to be a better execute spammable akin to Beam or Impale
• Curse and Frags changed to shock

On a 2 pet build, you're less likely to have enough space. There is only 3 flex spots when you consider Prey, weapon static dot and spammable are a must. There is still Lightning Flood, Fury, Bound Armaments, Lightning Form and a Minor Force option. Something would have to be given up.

On a no pet sorc, you could use all of those and still have space for a spammable to combo with Crystal Frags or Crystal Weapon which is how OG no pet sorc was used and why I imagine most people it found it more fun. Not only do pet sorcs rely on the bad AI, but they typically use Crystal Frag's hard cast to have better bar space management.

Eiregirl

Tannus15 wrote: »

Change twilight tormentor activation from a damage increase to instead grant empower.

i'd actually just change crystal frag to do physical damage the same as crystal weapon

i'm fine with curse being magic damage.

liquid lightning increasing shock damage would be fantastic.

i really don't like the "cast an ability to increase your max mag / stamina" for bound armour. in fact i don't like your changes to bound armour at all.

i'd also change endless fury to be a spammable.
mages wrath stays as is as an execute morph.

Tormentor grant empower? Uh no...just no mainly due to the fact a lot of sorcerers do not use pets.

I would rather see it added to a passive so all sorcs could benefit from it such as...

Exploitation - Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy to nearby allies, increasing Spell Critical by 1320 for 20 seconds. At Rank II grants you empower for 4 seconds after using a dark magic ability.

MashmalloMan

Eiregirl wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Change twilight tormentor activation from a damage increase to instead grant empower.

i'd actually just change crystal frag to do physical damage the same as crystal weapon

i'm fine with curse being magic damage.

liquid lightning increasing shock damage would be fantastic.

i really don't like the "cast an ability to increase your max mag / stamina" for bound armour. in fact i don't like your changes to bound armour at all.

i'd also change endless fury to be a spammable.
mages wrath stays as is as an execute morph.

Tormentor grant empower? Uh no...just no mainly due to the fact a lot of sorcerers do not use pets.

I would rather see it added to a passive so all sorcs could benefit from it such as...

Exploitation - Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy to nearby allies, increasing Spell Critical by 1320 for 20 seconds. At Rank II grants you empower for 4 seconds after using a dark magic ability.

Non pet sorcs don't need empower though. Majority of heavy attack shock staff builds also use pets. It's been that way for most of the games life cycle. Sorc is usually suggested as the new player friendly, 1 bar build.

Adding something like you suggested comes at a cost to the entire Sorc's toolkit because it applies to the entire Sorc's toolkit. We would most definitely be nerfed elsewhere to compensate. It also suggests the best way to play a Sorc is heavy attacking by it being passively gained.

I don't want to be forced into a heavy attack build in pve, at least on a pet it stays within its niche.

Plus.. adding empower to a class passive just for using a tree we use already is overloaded, slotting Tormentor makes more sense because the activation is barely ever used. It fits with the whole new player friendly, 1 bar playstyle which needs empower and you need to sacrifice Matriarch, the classes burst heal to get it.