Sorc Adjustments that Should Come to PTS Week 4

MashmalloMan

Note: I wrote these as if they're patch notes for week 4, so weeks 1/3 are taken into context. While I think there is a lot more that should be changed like updating passives, morph choices being more interesting, healing accessibilty, double bar pets, or minor prophecy being hyrbidized.. these suggestions are within the scope of what I think can and should be done for update 35.

I understand the duration increases for Surge/BA may seem like a lot, but keep in mind, my focus here is Sorc. I fully believe ZOS's focus should of been to reduce buff management for skills like those across the board, not just Sorc or sticky dots which failed gloriously. I thought that was the entire purpose of Update 35's objective, to reduce buff management and how much time we spend looking at our bars.

Dark Magic:

• Negate Magic:
  • Suppression Field (morph):
    • This morph now deals Shock damage instead of Magic damage.

• Crystal Shard:
  • This ability and the Crystal Frag morph now deal Shock damage instead of Magic damage.
    • Crystal Weapon (morph):
      • Increases damage done by 1% each rank instead of penetration between 700 and 1000.
      • No longer reduces armor by a unique value of 1000, instead guarantees the Sundered Status Effect to help double down on Sorc's being the Physical/Shock masters of ESO.
      • The second hit now deals 50% damage of the first instead of 30%. When converting Melee Damage to Ranged Damage spammable standards, this results in 150% total damage instead of lives 222% damage.

• Encase:
  • Shattering Prison (morph):
    • This morph now deals Shock damage instead of Magic damage.

• Rune Prison:
  • Rune Cage (morph):
    • This morph now deals Shock damage instead of Magic damage.

• Daedric Mines:
  • This ability and morphs now deal Shock damage instead of Magic damage.

Daedric Summoning:

• Summon Storm Atronach:
  • This ability and morphs now last 20s up from 15s.

• Daedric Curse:
  • This ability and morphs now deal Shock damage instead of Magic damage.

• Conjured Ward:
  • This ability and morphs now scale based on weapon/spell damage and max stamina/magicka instead of just max magicka, but still capped by your max HP.

• Bound Armor:
  • This ability and the Bound Aegis morph no longer passively increases your Max Magicka.
  • This ability and the Bound Aegis morph now grant Max Magicka for 10 seconds after casting along with the Minor Protection.
    • Bound Aegis (morph):
      • The Minor Protection and Max Magicka now last for 20 seconds.
    • Bound Armaments (morph):
      • No longer passively increases your Light Attack Damage and Max Stamina.
      • Max Stamina now provided when any portion of the skill is active.
      • Increased the duration to 60s from 40s to decrease required buff management (purpose of update 35?).
      • Fully charged heavy attacks now grant 2 Daggers instead of 1 like its close cousin Grim Focus.
      • This ability can now be refreshed by reactivating when you don't have a target.
      • No longer reduces cost by 50% for reactivation.
      • For clarification, damage per hit is reduced by approximately 11% with weeks 1 and 3 combined.

Storm Calling:

• Lightning Form:
  • This ability and morphs tick every 1s instead of every 2s again. This was reverted to better support the idea of Lightning Form being a useful tool to proc Critical Surge in melee combat more consistently than similar skills like Blade Cloak.
  • This ability and morphs have their damage reduced by 50% to match reverted tick frequency.
    • Hurricane (morph):
      • Reduced damage scaling from 12% to 6% to match reverted tick frequency.

• Surge:
  • This ability and the Power Surge morph now last 30s instead of 33s (even numbers, yay!).
  • This ability and the Power Surge morph now heal for 2000 instead of 2550
    • Power Surge (morph):
      • Reduced the cooldown from 3s to 2s to better align with heal tick frequency.
    • Critical Surge (morph):
      • This morph now doubles in duration from 30s to 60s (purpose of update 35?).

• Lightning Splash:
  • Enemies that take damage from this ability and morphs now take up to 6% extra shock damage for 3 seconds based on your weapon/spell damage.

TLDR: One can dream right?

MetallicMonk

Exploitation should give crit damage just like NB hemorrhage passive does. Same concept of a passive but sorc one is just worse.

MashmalloMan

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Exploitation should give crit damage just like NB hemorrhage passive does. Same concept of a passive but sorc one is just worse.

I purposefully didn't talk about passives, because there is no way they can come up with anything good in a week.

Plus, you can't really compare passives 1:1... although, yeah I agree, some passive updates would be nice. Not all passives are created equally, especially in comparison to other classes.

Mr_Stach

I like the push to Shock Damage, it's SUCH an easy adjustment and something I think would makes sense as Sorcs have their Elemental Niche.

Wardens also have theirs.

MetallicMonk

MashmalloMan wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Exploitation should give crit damage just like NB hemorrhage passive does. Same concept of a passive but sorc one is just worse.

I purposefully didn't talk about passives, because there is no way they can come up with anything good in a week.

Plus, you can't really compare passives 1:1... although, yeah I agree, some passive updates would be nice. Not all passives are created equally, especially in comparison to other classes.

Not normally but in this case they are literally pretty much the same passive providing minor prophecy/savagery, and NB and sorc have both always been the crit/burst classes and crit damage is very good in PvP atm. Problem is you can reach high crit chance on magsorc but you can't make a good crit build because of low crit damage because of certain factors and medium armor being needed.

Magsorc needs help offensive and defensively I think this change would be one of the least aggressive ones to see how much of a difference it would make.

MashmalloMan

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I like the push to Shock Damage, it's SUCH an easy adjustment and something I think would makes sense as Sorcs have their Elemental Niche.

Wardens also have theirs.

Yeah 100%.. they just did a pass on DK's to fire damage, so there's hope.. or prejudice - lol.

Warden's need:

1. 10% Magic damage changed to 10% Bleed damage.
2. Mag Bear, Fetcher and Cliff Racer changed to Frost damage.
3. Stam Scorch changed to Bleed.

Tannus15

Change twilight tormentor activation from a damage increase to instead grant empower.

i'd actually just change crystal frag to do physical damage the same as crystal weapon

i'm fine with curse being magic damage.

liquid lightning increasing shock damage would be fantastic.

i really don't like the "cast an ability to increase your max mag / stamina" for bound armour. in fact i don't like your changes to bound armour at all.

i'd also change endless fury to be a spammable.
mages wrath stays as is as an execute morph.

MashmalloMan

MetallicMonk wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Exploitation should give crit damage just like NB hemorrhage passive does. Same concept of a passive but sorc one is just worse.

I purposefully didn't talk about passives, because there is no way they can come up with anything good in a week.

Plus, you can't really compare passives 1:1... although, yeah I agree, some passive updates would be nice. Not all passives are created equally, especially in comparison to other classes.

Not normally but in this case they are literally pretty much the same passive providing minor prophecy/savagery, and NB and sorc have both always been the crit/burst classes and crit damage is very good in PvP atm. Problem is you can reach high crit chance on magsorc but you can't make a good crit build because of low crit damage because of certain factors and medium armor being needed.

Magsorc needs help offensive and defensively I think this change would be one of the least aggressive ones to see how much of a difference it would make.

Fully agree, I just try to avoid 1:1 comparisons because you could just as easily thrown other effects from another passive on it. It's really just a matter of how they're unlocked, but then all of them apply as a whole.

One day, I'd like them to add Major Savagery/Prophecy to NB and Sorc, they're the Crit focused classes with NO access to an active skill with Major Crit. How dumb is that?

But I'm hoping that comes when they fix the hybridization pass for Crit/Damage on Minor buffs, Mundus, Jewelry and Potions.

MetallicMonk

Tannus15 wrote: »

i'd actually just change crystal frag to do physical damage the same as crystal weapon

This actually would not be a bad change for PvP; it would give magsorc a source of minor breach which would be nice, and I mean even immersion wise it makes sense you would think even if you summon a magic crystal and throw it, it's doing physical damage.

Tannus15

MashmalloMan wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Exploitation should give crit damage just like NB hemorrhage passive does. Same concept of a passive but sorc one is just worse.

I purposefully didn't talk about passives, because there is no way they can come up with anything good in a week.

Plus, you can't really compare passives 1:1... although, yeah I agree, some passive updates would be nice. Not all passives are created equally, especially in comparison to other classes.

Not normally but in this case they are literally pretty much the same passive providing minor prophecy/savagery, and NB and sorc have both always been the crit/burst classes and crit damage is very good in PvP atm. Problem is you can reach high crit chance on magsorc but you can't make a good crit build because of low crit damage because of certain factors and medium armor being needed.

Magsorc needs help offensive and defensively I think this change would be one of the least aggressive ones to see how much of a difference it would make.

Fully agree, I just try to avoid 1:1 comparisons because you could just as easily thrown other effects from another passive on it. It's really just a matter of how they're unlocked, but then all of them apply as a whole.

One day, I'd like them to add Major Savagery/Prophecy to NB and Sorc, they're the Crit focused classes with NO access to an active skill with Major Crit. How dumb is that?

But I'm hoping that comes when they fix the hybridization pass for Crit/Damage on Minor buffs, Mundus, Jewelry and Potions.

Major Savagery/Prophecy that would be another good option for twilight tormentor activation with a 60s timer like warden lotus.

basically what i'm saying is that the activation ability on tormentor is useless and wasted and doing literally anything else with it would be good.

MetallicMonk

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Fully agree, I just try to avoid 1:1 comparisons because you could just as easily thrown other effects from another passive on it. It's really just a matter of how they're unlocked, but then all of them apply as a whole.

I could have but it would be noticeable throwing random effects in for no reason. Currently they're pretty much the same exact passive just swap minor prophecy and minor savagery, the only difference is the nightblade passive gives them individually an extra 10% crit damage for having a skill slotted from that tree, while the sorc passive ends at providing minor prophecy for your group.

Passives are normally not worth comparing, more talked about individually and how they could improve but in this case they're almost the same passive intended for the same thing one is just worse, and the class it is worse on performs worse, so it's an easier one to adjust because there is already a better version of it out there.

MashmalloMan

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

i'd actually just change crystal frag to do physical damage the same as crystal weapon

This actually would not be a bad change for PvP; it would give magsorc a source of minor breach which would be nice, and I mean even immersion wise it makes sense you would think even if you summon a magic crystal and throw it, it's doing physical damage.

What about shock damage, but it gives guaranteed concussed?

Just a thought, would add parity between the 2 skills.

Tannus15 wrote: »

Change twilight tormentor activation from a damage increase to instead grant empower.

i'd actually just change crystal frag to do physical damage the same as crystal weapon

i'm fine with curse being magic damage.

liquid lightning increasing shock damage would be fantastic.

i really don't like the "cast an ability to increase your max mag / stamina" for bound armour. in fact i don't like your changes to bound armour at all.

i'd also change endless fury to be a spammable.
mages wrath stays as is as an execute morph.

Tormentor is a good idea, especially since Empower is only for PVE, kinda makes sense...? Have no idea what to do with that skill but it still stinks to use. Not very fun or rewarding.

I have no idea what I'd do with Fury morphs, but I think they're an example of what I mentioned regarding morph choices sucking. They feel nearly the same, you're never going to rely on Wrath's aoe damage to do anything special and Fury's return is meh. Too similar, but I don't think anything I'd suggest would make it on PTS in 1 week.

For Bound Armor, I'd suggest thinking about how they're actually used in today's context, no one double slots them anymore. There is simply no space. Moving it from passive to active is easy to manage as they're both 20 and 60s long.

Bound Aegis you're going to be casting to get Minor Protection now, imo ZOS is saying it's mostly a tank tool, if you wanted passive Magicka for doing nothing, you're going to slot Inner Light which happens to give Major Prophecy.

I'm very firm on the belief that the bonus should be changed to active so our backbar rotation's and defensive kit can be increased..

I'll say this. I would completely change both the Magicka and Stamina bonuses to a hybrid friendly bonus like 5% crit chance instead of Max Resources. Mag Sorcs should get a benefit from BA if they want to use it as a damage tool. It fits better with the classes theme and Max Resource stacking isn't necessary as much with the shield change.

Lastly.. Resource stacking is extremely far behind Damage stacking that everyone has focussed on in recent years because we no longer have CP for 20% or races for 5-10%.

MashmalloMan

Tannus15 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Exploitation should give crit damage just like NB hemorrhage passive does. Same concept of a passive but sorc one is just worse.

I purposefully didn't talk about passives, because there is no way they can come up with anything good in a week.

Plus, you can't really compare passives 1:1... although, yeah I agree, some passive updates would be nice. Not all passives are created equally, especially in comparison to other classes.

Not normally but in this case they are literally pretty much the same passive providing minor prophecy/savagery, and NB and sorc have both always been the crit/burst classes and crit damage is very good in PvP atm. Problem is you can reach high crit chance on magsorc but you can't make a good crit build because of low crit damage because of certain factors and medium armor being needed.

Magsorc needs help offensive and defensively I think this change would be one of the least aggressive ones to see how much of a difference it would make.

Fully agree, I just try to avoid 1:1 comparisons because you could just as easily thrown other effects from another passive on it. It's really just a matter of how they're unlocked, but then all of them apply as a whole.

One day, I'd like them to add Major Savagery/Prophecy to NB and Sorc, they're the Crit focused classes with NO access to an active skill with Major Crit. How dumb is that?

But I'm hoping that comes when they fix the hybridization pass for Crit/Damage on Minor buffs, Mundus, Jewelry and Potions.

Major Savagery/Prophecy that would be another good option for twilight tormentor activation with a 60s timer like warden lotus.

basically what i'm saying is that the activation ability on tormentor is useless and wasted and doing literally anything else with it would be good.

AGH no, don't give ZOS that idea of it to that skill lol. No pet sorc's are a thing too.. well they used to be in pve, not so much nowadays. Either way, agreed the morph stinks and is unrewarding to use, but Major Crit should be given to a more universal tool like a damage or CC skill in the Sorc kit. Dark Exchange/Deal or Curse as prime examples imo.

Empower on Matriarch is a really good idea because it further solidifies Sorc as being a top dog for newer, lower skill, or empaired players that like to make Shock Heavy builds. Seems like a perfect fit with week 3 empower.

JustAGoodPlayer

What about DK skill for DK mains only that summons a dragon lord that gives DK tons of money each day ? )

Only sorc and NB have negate by the way (silence). Tenplars and DK lose one more unique skill - but sorcs ask to buff their unique skills.

What esle do you want ? 10 times more DPS more than other classes ? ) You already have 20% more DPS on live -- not 10 times more but ... others did not have even that !

MashmalloMan

JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »

What about DK skill for DK mains only that summons a dragon lord that gives DK tons of money each day ? )

Only sorc and NB have negate by the way. Tenplars and DK lose one more unique skill - but sorcs ask to buff their unique skills.

What esle do you want ? 10 more DPS more than other classes ? ) You already have 20% more DPS on live -- not 10 times more but ... others did not have even that !

Please be constructive instead of baiting..

You didn't actually read anything I wrote.

MashmalloMan

MetallicMonk wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Fully agree, I just try to avoid 1:1 comparisons because you could just as easily thrown other effects from another passive on it. It's really just a matter of how they're unlocked, but then all of them apply as a whole.

I could have but it would be noticeable throwing random effects in for no reason. Currently they're pretty much the same exact passive just swap minor prophecy and minor savagery, the only difference is the nightblade passive gives them individually an extra 10% crit damage for having a skill slotted from that tree, while the sorc passive ends at providing minor prophecy for your group.

Passives are normally not worth comparing, more talked about individually and how they could improve but in this case they're almost the same passive intended for the same thing one is just worse, and the class it is worse on performs worse, so it's an easier one to adjust because there is already a better version of it out there.

Idk how Sorc compares to NB as a whole right now, but I think thats worth more investigating rather than comparing 2 passives with the same wording. Sorc's damage passives are quite good all things considered, at least on paper, so I don't think adding more damage is the answer.

If anything, they could add something more unique then just giving us crit like NB's. I really like how ZOS experimented with giving NBs dodge cost reduction on Blur. I think that is the type of out of box thinking the classes need right now.

Less stat increases, more niche and unique ways to play. Like DK's having +2 range on 5m instant skills. Thats a really cool idea that helps DK's feel different.

MetallicMonk

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Idk how Sorc compares to NB as a whole right now, but I think thats worth more investigation then just seeing 2 passives that have the same wording. Sorc's damage passives are quite good all things considered, at least on paper.

If anything, they could add something more unique then just giving us crit like NB's. I really like how ZOS experimented with giving NBs dodge cost reduction on Blur. I think that is the type of out of box thinking the classes need right now.

Less stat increases, more niche and unique ways to play. Like DK's having +2 range on 5m instant skills. Thats a really cool idea that helps DK's feel different.

Sorc is just worse than NB really, in a PvP context at least. Also I agree I would like things that not only improve the class but give it more of a unique feel but honestly I don't really trust zos with handling that currently. they probably only gave nightblade something cool because Gilliam mains one, I don't think they could come up with something to give sorc more class identity and improvements so I guess I'm more than fine accepting scaling or damage changes.

MashmalloMan

MetallicMonk wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Idk how Sorc compares to NB as a whole right now, but I think thats worth more investigation then just seeing 2 passives that have the same wording. Sorc's damage passives are quite good all things considered, at least on paper.

If anything, they could add something more unique then just giving us crit like NB's. I really like how ZOS experimented with giving NBs dodge cost reduction on Blur. I think that is the type of out of box thinking the classes need right now.

Less stat increases, more niche and unique ways to play. Like DK's having +2 range on 5m instant skills. Thats a really cool idea that helps DK's feel different.

Sorc is just worse than NB really, in a PvP context at least. Also I agree I would like things that not only improve the class but give it more of a unique feel but honestly I don't really trust ZoS with handling that currently. they probably only gave nightblade something cool because Gilliam mains one, I don't think they could come up with something to give sorc more class identity and improvements so I guess I'm more than fine accepting scaling or damage changes.

I completely avoided U34 PVP after noticing how many Sorc's were running around with Oaken+Savage+CW, so I can't comment on live from personal experience. I'm willing to bet NB and DK are top dogs right now because Oakensoul works well with the type of kits they have as Whip, Corrosive and Ganking can be easily adjusted for 1 bar.

Around U30-U33, NB's were rarely a problem for me in BG's. Most NB's didn't know what to do if you survived and punished their failed gank. Without Calurion's and Oakensoul for U35 I doubt they're as much of a threat as you think. I quite like the idea behind Veiled Strike and Blur changes they got, maybe other classes can see the same treatment.

MetallicMonk

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I completely avoided U34 PVP after noticing how many Sorc's were running around with Oaken+Savage+CW, so I can't comment on live from personal experience. I'm willing to bet NB and DK are top dogs right now because Oakensoul works well with the type of kits they have as Whip, Corrosive and Ganking can be easily adjusted for 1 bar.

Around U30-U33, NB's were rarely a problem for me in BG's. Most NB's didn't know what to do if you survived and punished their failed gank. Without Calurion's and Oakensoul for U35 I doubt they're as much of a threat as you think. I quite like the idea behind Veiled Strike and Blur changes they got, maybe other classes can see the same treatment.

I don't really judge based off BGs but in that context you are correct NBs aren't really a huge threat in BGs. Also caluurions doesn't really matter that much, none of the best NBs even utilized caluurions there were and are much stronger builds out there. All of these buffs and how much hybridization benefits NB I can guarantee you they are definitely a threat lol. Nb has massive damage and close to the best healing in the game currently.

YandereGirlfriend

These ideas are all so good!

ESO_Nightingale

Tannus15 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Exploitation should give crit damage just like NB hemorrhage passive does. Same concept of a passive but sorc one is just worse.

I purposefully didn't talk about passives, because there is no way they can come up with anything good in a week.

Plus, you can't really compare passives 1:1... although, yeah I agree, some passive updates would be nice. Not all passives are created equally, especially in comparison to other classes.

Not normally but in this case they are literally pretty much the same passive providing minor prophecy/savagery, and NB and sorc have both always been the crit/burst classes and crit damage is very good in PvP atm. Problem is you can reach high crit chance on magsorc but you can't make a good crit build because of low crit damage because of certain factors and medium armor being needed.

Magsorc needs help offensive and defensively I think this change would be one of the least aggressive ones to see how much of a difference it would make.

Fully agree, I just try to avoid 1:1 comparisons because you could just as easily thrown other effects from another passive on it. It's really just a matter of how they're unlocked, but then all of them apply as a whole.

One day, I'd like them to add Major Savagery/Prophecy to NB and Sorc, they're the Crit focused classes with NO access to an active skill with Major Crit. How dumb is that?

But I'm hoping that comes when they fix the hybridization pass for Crit/Damage on Minor buffs, Mundus, Jewelry and Potions.

Major Savagery/Prophecy that would be another good option for twilight tormentor activation with a 60s timer like warden lotus.

basically what i'm saying is that the activation ability on tormentor is useless and wasted and doing literally anything else with it would be good.

that's a really great idea. i like it a lot. i'd throw the crit buff on leeching strikes for nightblade

MashmalloMan

MetallicMonk wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I completely avoided U34 PVP after noticing how many Sorc's were running around with Oaken+Savage+CW, so I can't comment on live from personal experience. I'm willing to bet NB and DK are top dogs right now because Oakensoul works well with the type of kits they have as Whip, Corrosive and Ganking can be easily adjusted for 1 bar.

Around U30-U33, NB's were rarely a problem for me in BG's. Most NB's didn't know what to do if you survived and punished their failed gank. Without Calurion's and Oakensoul for U35 I doubt they're as much of a threat as you think. I quite like the idea behind Veiled Strike and Blur changes they got, maybe other classes can see the same treatment.

I don't really judge based off BGs but in that context you are correct NBs aren't really a huge threat in BGs. Also caluurions doesn't really matter that much, none of the best NBs even utilized caluurions there were and are much stronger builds out there. All of these buffs and how much hybridization benefits NB I can guarantee you they are definitely a threat lol. Nb has massive damage and close to the best healing in the game currently.

Fair enough. I'm not up to date, but they seemed pretty lacking not too long ago. I know hybrid changes and Healthy Offering made a pretty big difference. Matriarch is overloaded because it hits 2 targets, but the damn thing is so incredibly frustrating because it dies and takes up 2 slots, I will never use it.

The only people that can use Matriarch are Sorc's that can hide behind a group. I'm willing to concede we'll never get 1 bar pets if Shields were a good alternative to that.. but even if they could scale from damage, they can't crit like heals so I'm not sure if that is even comparable.

There is so much I'd like changed, but realistically, it's not going to happen in 1 week. The post focuses on what they already altered and what they could alter based on other classes like DK finally getting Flame damage across their kit.

Tannus15

Endless fury was changed last patch to no longer return resources, it's just cheaper to cast now.

if you really want to get it on the bar you can run it with crystal weapon and use it as the "extra spammable" until you hit execute and then it's a nice dps boost.

sorc just has too many front bar skills that are too good to ignore (it's a nice problem to have eh)
scamp and bird are solid damage, prey is almost as good for pet control as it is for damage, then either a spammable + frags or CW + BA

the execute just isn't really good enough to justify dropping scamp.

MashmalloMan

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Exploitation should give crit damage just like NB hemorrhage passive does. Same concept of a passive but sorc one is just worse.

I purposefully didn't talk about passives, because there is no way they can come up with anything good in a week.

Plus, you can't really compare passives 1:1... although, yeah I agree, some passive updates would be nice. Not all passives are created equally, especially in comparison to other classes.

Not normally but in this case they are literally pretty much the same passive providing minor prophecy/savagery, and NB and sorc have both always been the crit/burst classes and crit damage is very good in PvP atm. Problem is you can reach high crit chance on magsorc but you can't make a good crit build because of low crit damage because of certain factors and medium armor being needed.

Magsorc needs help offensive and defensively I think this change would be one of the least aggressive ones to see how much of a difference it would make.

Fully agree, I just try to avoid 1:1 comparisons because you could just as easily thrown other effects from another passive on it. It's really just a matter of how they're unlocked, but then all of them apply as a whole.

One day, I'd like them to add Major Savagery/Prophecy to NB and Sorc, they're the Crit focused classes with NO access to an active skill with Major Crit. How dumb is that?

But I'm hoping that comes when they fix the hybridization pass for Crit/Damage on Minor buffs, Mundus, Jewelry and Potions.

Major Savagery/Prophecy that would be another good option for twilight tormentor activation with a 60s timer like warden lotus.

basically what i'm saying is that the activation ability on tormentor is useless and wasted and doing literally anything else with it would be good.

that's a really great idea. i like it a lot. i'd throw the crit buff on leeching strikes for nightblade

Can't agree with Major Crit for Tormentor because so many Sorc's avoid pets with a 50ft pole, but Leeching Strikes giving Major Crit would be perfect.

While they're at it.. move Major Damage from Drain Power to something they can prebuff or use from range. Such an odd place to put it, seems like they just did that to be different from the other 3 original classes.

MetallicMonk

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Fair enough. I'm not up to date, but they seemed pretty lacking not too long ago. I know hybrid changes and Healthy Offering made a pretty big difference. Matriarch is overloaded because it hits 2 targets, but the damn thing is so incredibly frustrating because it dies and takes up 2 slots, I will never use it.

The only people that can use Matriarch are Sorc's that can hide behind a group. I'm willing to concede we'll never get 1 bar pets if Shields were a good alternative to that.. but even if they could scale from damage, they can't crit like heals so I'm not sure if that is even comparable.

There is so much I'd like changed, but realistically, it's not going to happen in 1 week. The post focuses on what they already altered and what they could alter based on other classes like DK finally getting Flame damage across their kit.

Agreed, sorc needs better shields/shield scaling or a more reliable burst heal. Pet heal is just not viable outside of certain groupings and BGs occasionally.

MashmalloMan

Tannus15 wrote: »

Endless fury was changed last patch to no longer return resources, it's just cheaper to cast now.

if you really want to get it on the bar you can run it with crystal weapon and use it as the "extra spammable" until you hit execute and then it's a nice dps boost.

sorc just has too many front bar skills that are too good to ignore (it's a nice problem to have eh)
scamp and bird are solid damage, prey is almost as good for pet control as it is for damage, then either a spammable + frags or CW + BA

the execute just isn't really good enough to justify dropping scamp.

Oh shoot, yeah I forgot they did that. Still just as lame between the 2 morphs imo lol. There was a time before Crystal Weapon that Stam Sorc's collectively said "Hey, why don't you just change a Fury morph to a stam spammable and combine the existing effects on 1 morph."

But.. here we are with Crystal Weapon instead lol. To be fair, I've grown to like CW, but it's definitely not what any Sorc asked for back then.

In regards to Fury in your example not really having a place in pve. Yeah, but maybe that's okay in an ideal world where double pet sorc doesn't run an execute, but no pet sorc does. That's how I use to play in like 2016 and it was a lot of fun to have 2 distinct ways to play mag sorc.

I think a lot of what holds Fury back is the fact that it can be pre-applied to targets. It has a low tooltip in comparison to other Executes and has a bad minimum travel time that makes it easy to dodge. It's basically just a kill steal tool for pvp.

Since the whole stam spammable idea is no longer a thing.. they should change 1 morph to behave the same way it does now, then change the other morph to abandon the delayed burst entirely for a more direct approach. Example of a quick idea:

• Endless Fury:
  • 871 shock damage that deals up to 300% more to enemies below 50% hp. If the enemy is below 20% health, deal an additional 693 Shock Damage to nearby enemies.

• Mages Wrath:
  • 871 shock damage + If the enemy falls below 20% Health within 4 seconds of being struck, an explosion deals an additional 3195 Shock Damage to them and 1438 Shock Damage to nearby enemies.

Tannus15

@MashmalloMan I'd rather see endless fury be more like destructive touch

2100 shock damage as a small AOE, like 3m radius or something. the important thing is to make it buffed by lightning staff passives instead of inferno.

no execute functionality. maybe give it concussion or something, doesn't really matter.

the important thing is that with liquid lightning you are starting to get an argument for sorcs to be running lightning staff on the front bar. could look something like:

fury, frags, prey, scamp, bird, atro
wall, liquid, <flex>, scamp, bird, destro

with double lightning staffs. add a set equivalent to frostbite so we can lean harder on the shock damage.

no pet something like

fury, frags, ba, curse, inner, meteor
wall, liquid, boundless, <flex>, inner, destro

MashmalloMan

Tannus15 wrote: »

@MashmalloMan I'd rather see endless fury be more like destructive touch

2100 shock damage as a small AOE, like 3m radius or something. the important thing is to make it buffed by lightning staff passives instead of inferno.

no execute functionality. maybe give it concussion or something, doesn't really matter.

the important thing is that with liquid lightning you are starting to get an argument for sorcs to be running lightning staff on the front bar. could look something like:

fury, frags, prey, scamp, bird, atro
wall, liquid, <flex>, scamp, bird, destro

with double lightning staffs. add a set equivalent to frostbite so we can lean harder on the shock damage.

no pet something like

fury, frags, ba, curse, inner, meteor
wall, liquid, boundless, <flex>, inner, destro

I like the sentiment and would take anything else at this point than the lackluster morphs. However, Shock staves will never be a viable option for DPS until things change. I'd rather them completely detach the aoe/single target damage from staves for something else, then rework Class skills to match that idea.

The decision on what staff you use doesn't come down to more dps, "yes please", but what do the specific skills from that skill line do for me and do I have syngery's that compliment that playstyle.

At bare minimum, if you don't happen to use the Destruction staff skills, then the decision is flavour for power fantasy, the heavy attack animation, or if you're a Warden/Sorc/DK which receive direct bonuses to those damage types.

So with that in mind, I think making a completely new skill Sorc doesn't need in their kit just so they can use Shock staves is like putting a bandaid over the wrong problem that starts with with Destruction Staves.

It's also an uphill battle because realistically it wouldn't be fair for an item that is meant for aoe dps, to be stronger than that of single target even if it's only applicable to Sorcs. Now Sorc becomes the number 1 aoe dps class, yet they still output great single target DPS. The problem is ZOS's method of balancing PVE is just to tweak numbers up and down so the highest a class can do is even amongst each class, they rarely look at HOW that class achieves that DPS.

Tannus15

Yeah, I'm working within the assumption that lightning staff / shock damage isn't going to change and what it would take for shock sorc to work within that framework in the same way frost warden currently works on live.

MashmalloMan

Tannus15 wrote: »

Yeah, I'm working within the assumption that lightning staff / shock damage isn't going to change and what it would take for shock sorc to work within that framework in the same way frost warden currently works on live.

That is mostly because they have 10% Frost damage to close the gap, we've got 5%. That helps their Light/Heavy's with missing out on the 10% single target. Then they get esentially 20% crit damage on top of it via chilled and happen to be the best class to apply chilled. Even so, I think non Frost Staff Warden does better under the right circumstances, but at least they have a niche they can fill that isn't present via Shock Staff Sorc.

The only way for Shock staves to do something similar is if we got updated passives and a named debuff too. Even so, whats to stop a support from using a Shock staff to apply whatever "unique" debuff we could provide if it was from the staff.

Yeah, burn the passive to the ground and rework it. Don't understand their obsession with fire staves, even after hybrid changes, just seems to shoehorn builds.

Mr_Stach

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Yeah, I'm working within the assumption that lightning staff / shock damage isn't going to change and what it would take for shock sorc to work within that framework in the same way frost warden currently works on live.

That is mostly because they have 10% Frost damage to close the gap, we've got 5%. That helps their Light/Heavy's with missing out on the 10% single target. Then they get esentially 20% crit damage on top of it via chilled and happen to be the best class to apply chilled. Even so, I think non Frost Staff Warden does better under the right circumstances, but at least they have a niche they can fill that isn't present via Shock Staff Sorc.

The only way for Shock staves to do something similar is if we got updated passives and a named debuff too. Even so, whats to stop a support from using a Shock staff to apply whatever "unique" debuff we could provide if it was from the staff.

Yeah, burn the passive to the ground and rework it. Don't understand their obsession with fire staves, even after hybrid changes, just seems to shoehorn builds.

They even recently added a execute to Fire Pulsar, because Fire.