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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
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Ritual of Retribution - Still 20 seconds
Altyrann
✭✭✭✭✭
Not sure if this is deliberate or not but it is definitely ground based and doesn't stick to caster or target yet seems to have the longer duration with lower DPS.
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virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think upon further thought it was as it ticks every 2
It has long ticked every 2 seconds despite being a ground-based DoT. (It will not follow an enemy who moves out of it, and it doesn’t follow the caster.) This is an exceptional part of the skill. It only lasts 12 seconds on live (for the damage morph) but was increased to 20 seconds with 8.1.0.
They did not properly revert this ground-based DoT to its original length of 12 seconds, ticking every 2 seconds, or the heavy up-front nerf combined with new increased scaling that means we are heavily punished for recasting it early. Those parts need to be reverted if the skill is to remain competitive. The exceptional 2-second cadence was not new for this patch (and was addressed in a comment in 5.1.0), so perhaps they won’t revise that, but the skill is not a sticky DoT by any definition.3 -
Billium813✭✭✭✭✭
✭Templar dd dead anyways. They don't care, it's obvious.
Considering there hasn't been any mention on Templar changes, or expected changes, in weeks, I would assume they have moved on and feel Templar is as it should be.
Personally, I would be fine with the new RoR 20 second duration if it was much more aggressive in the scaling on tick damage, reaching a tick damage cap after 6 ticks (similar to Thunderous Volley). This would punish recasts much less as combat moves around, like most fights naturally do. Personally, I think if they are going to extend ANY ground based DOTs in duration, they should ALL follow that model, but I digress...
As is, the heavy up front damage nerf and the expectation that combat will stay in the AOE makes the current PTS Ritual of Retribution laughable. If we assume the same 12 second duration for the new PTS RoR, but with the PTS damage changes, it's a 33% overall damage reduction and a ~ 52-33% DPS loss (since the new RoR scales a bit faster, the DPS loss diminishes as you reach 12 seconds, but it never exceeds live DPS, even if they stand in the AOE for the whole 20 seconds).
Now, I don't necessarily mind the DPS loss here. It makes sense to a degree. I mean, ideally you are saving resources as you have to cast less with an extended duration! But the overall damage for the new PTS RoT is now much less than 2 Live RoR over the same duration (a full 12 seconds + 8 seconds) (-24% over all damage). IMO, the loss of DPS and overall damage is not comparable to the resource save of one recast of RoR. Considering a majority of the time, you won't even GET the full 20 seconds and have to recast ~12 seconds anyway, making the DPS and overall damage loss ~50% and ~33% respectively. That just doesn't equate to the resource benefit.Edited by Billium813 on August 5, 2022 2:58PM0 -
Altyrann✭✭✭✭✭Hoping it is just an oversight rather than intentional as it just doesn't feel useful as is.0
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Arwin✭✭✭Not sure if this is deliberate or not but it is definitely ground based and doesn't stick to caster or target yet seems to have the longer duration with lower DPS.
The DPS might be lower but the damage gain over using a spammable is higher, which more than makes up for it (0,4 GCD gain every 10 seconds or 1.0 GCD gain every 20 seconds). The 20 second dots are actually factually better on current PTS, using a 10 second one is gimping yourself (aside from the ones that serve as delivery system for arena and Berserk enchants) unless we're talking about an aoe situation. The concern of course would be a boss moving out of it but ritual of retribution is quite a wide area.
Also it looked like they wanted to do that for one AoE per class for the people who insist on using the now inferior aoes (in single target situations).0 -
Altyrann✭✭✭✭✭That's back to their week 1 logic, but as you say, the added damage doesn't work well when you need more burst (trash AoE etc. or when things move, which in harder content is fairly frequent).
Just hoping we get some response on whether this is deliberate or not given it goes against what they said they were doing.1 -
Norbert✭✭Let it tick every second. Otherwise the new zos rules about non-sticky dots are already broken.Logres Midgard!2 -
mmtaniac✭✭✭✭✭Only thing zos change is always changing jabs other thing not matter. They change jabs to be worthless and that all cope with it. They forget about empowering sweep too right now this ultimate is even more useless with new empower, Solar barrage is normal skill so i don't care.1 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Not sure if this is deliberate or not but it is definitely ground based and doesn't stick to caster or target yet seems to have the longer duration with lower DPS.
The DPS might be lower but the damage gain over using a spammable is higher, which more than makes up for it (0,4 GCD gain every 10 seconds or 1.0 GCD gain every 20 seconds). The 20 second dots are actually factually better on current PTS, using a 10 second one is gimping yourself (aside from the ones that serve as delivery system for arena and Berserk enchants) unless we're talking about an aoe situation. The concern of course would be a boss moving out of it but ritual of retribution is quite a wide area.
Also it looked like they wanted to do that for one AoE per class for the people who insist on using the now inferior aoes (in single target situations).
The problem is they reverted other ground-based DoTs, like spear, but made no comment about leaving certain ones at the new longer duration and lower dps. If they intentionally left this out, they need to say so so that we know it’s not an unintentional omission. We also deserve to know why they want to nerf this skill much more than other ground DoTs in terms of its actual effectiveness in combat.
This is “only” a 33% nerf from live if the boss sits in it for the full 20 seconds. It is a 44.6% dps nerf if you recast it at 12 seconds, its current duration. And its current duration is already problematic on fights like Z’Maja and Olms, among others, which is exactly why they said they reverted the duration of ground DoTs but kept the longer duration of stickies.
Other ground DoTs were reverted. Why not this one? It badly needs it to be competitive in terms of damage thanks to the badly imbalanced new scaling.1 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Not sure if this is deliberate or not but it is definitely ground based and doesn't stick to caster or target yet seems to have the longer duration with lower DPS.
The DPS might be lower but the damage gain over using a spammable is higher, which more than makes up for it (0,4 GCD gain every 10 seconds or 1.0 GCD gain every 20 seconds). The 20 second dots are actually factually better on current PTS, using a 10 second one is gimping yourself (aside from the ones that serve as delivery system for arena and Berserk enchants) unless we're talking about an aoe situation. The concern of course would be a boss moving out of it but ritual of retribution is quite a wide area.
Also it looked like they wanted to do that for one AoE per class for the people who insist on using the now inferior aoes (in single target situations).
The problem is they reverted other ground-based DoTs, like spear, but made no comment about leaving certain ones at the new longer duration and lower dps. If they intentionally left this out, they need to say so so that we know it’s not an unintentional omission. We also deserve to know why they want to nerf this skill much more than other ground DoTs in terms of its actual effectiveness in combat.
This is “only” a 33% nerf from live if the boss sits in it for the full 20 seconds. It is a 44.6% dps nerf if you recast it at 12 seconds, its current duration. And its current duration is already problematic on fights like Z’Maja and Olms, among others, which is exactly why they said they reverted the duration of ground DoTs but kept the longer duration of stickies.
Other ground DoTs were reverted. Why not this one? It badly needs it to be competitive in terms of damage thanks to the badly imbalanced new scaling.
To be fair, we do have blazing spear as a 10 second ground dot, with a pretty meaty initial damage, that's pretty good for mobile fights.
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Altyrann✭✭✭✭✭Is the healing version also still 20s and 2s ticks? Not able to fire up my own PTS currently to check.0
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virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Not sure if this is deliberate or not but it is definitely ground based and doesn't stick to caster or target yet seems to have the longer duration with lower DPS.
The DPS might be lower but the damage gain over using a spammable is higher, which more than makes up for it (0,4 GCD gain every 10 seconds or 1.0 GCD gain every 20 seconds). The 20 second dots are actually factually better on current PTS, using a 10 second one is gimping yourself (aside from the ones that serve as delivery system for arena and Berserk enchants) unless we're talking about an aoe situation. The concern of course would be a boss moving out of it but ritual of retribution is quite a wide area.
Also it looked like they wanted to do that for one AoE per class for the people who insist on using the now inferior aoes (in single target situations).
The problem is they reverted other ground-based DoTs, like spear, but made no comment about leaving certain ones at the new longer duration and lower dps. If they intentionally left this out, they need to say so so that we know it’s not an unintentional omission. We also deserve to know why they want to nerf this skill much more than other ground DoTs in terms of its actual effectiveness in combat.
This is “only” a 33% nerf from live if the boss sits in it for the full 20 seconds. It is a 44.6% dps nerf if you recast it at 12 seconds, its current duration. And its current duration is already problematic on fights like Z’Maja and Olms, among others, which is exactly why they said they reverted the duration of ground DoTs but kept the longer duration of stickies.
Other ground DoTs were reverted. Why not this one? It badly needs it to be competitive in terms of damage thanks to the badly imbalanced new scaling.
To be fair, we do have blazing spear as a 10 second ground dot, with a pretty meaty initial damage, that's pretty good for mobile fights.
We had that already, and we were apparently lucky to keep it, since Spear got properly reverted whereas Ritual did not. What they’ve done is taken away a class skill that had decent use in content, nerfed it to the point where we’ll be seeking other options (or sticking with a severely underpowered class option), ignored it for three weeks running now, and as a result pushed us towards using yet another generic skill to replace it with. We need more competitive class skills, not fewer. This entire update for Templars has been themed around nerfs to class abilities, forcing us to decide between better damage and class skills. That’s inconsistent with the idea of an “online RPG” (as the studio head calls ESO) as a genre.
There is no justification given for failing to revert this like they did spear. They said they were reverting all ground DoTs. They failed to do so here, without comment, and in failing to do so threatened templar class identity even more. I don’t know whether they forgot to revert the skill or forgot to tell us why they won’t revert it. It doesn’t reflect positively either way for it to go ignored for so long.1 -
Altyrann✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_GinaBruno - just to make sure there is visibility on this
Looks like both healing and damage morphs are still 20s long and only ticking every 2s.3 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@ZOS_GinaBruno - just to make sure there is visibility on this
Looks like both healing and damage morphs are still 20s long and only ticking every 2s.
They've ticked every 2 seconds for years. That wasn't changed for this PTS, and I don't know that they'd consider changing it now, regardless of the terrible justification for it (see 5.1.0).0 -
Altyrann✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_GinaBruno - just to make sure there is visibility on this
Looks like both healing and damage morphs are still 20s long and only ticking every 2s.
They've ticked every 2 seconds for years. That wasn't changed for this PTS, and I don't know that they'd consider changing it now, regardless of the terrible justification for it (see 5.1.0).
Would rather keep asking the question now just in case!0
