Upcoming PTS Combat & Balance Adjustments

vivisectvib16_ESO

Also still waiting for an explanation as to why Unstable Wall is nerfed by 33%. Don't want to hear anything about "overperforming in PvP" either.

Zippy81

What a rollercoaster it is! Yikes!

I haven't tested any changes nor visited PTS because the numbers there aren't really the issue for me. I hate the constant changes. I wish there were just a few minor quality of life tweaks for the autumn patch, not an overhaul. Floor, roof, walls, whatever. I don't want to learn the game every 3 months from scratch.

As for dumbing down the content, especially dungeons and old trials, you'll take away a lot of fun from people. It's only the latest two trials that are insanely difficult. You know what? Ask the guys that sell carries, they'll tell you which ones have the most difficult moments to keep their customers alive.

Sidenote, a perfect messenger was chosen to pass the information. Respect for her.

Necrotech_Master

vivisectvib16_ESO wrote: »

Also still waiting for an explanation as to why Unstable Wall is nerfed by 33%. Don't want to hear anything about "overperforming in PvP" either.

i think a lot of the ground dots only had their durations and tick rates reset, but all the dmg nerfs (or buffs in some cases) still in place which wasnt really considered (or at least they werent noted in the patch notes)

MashmalloMan

Sorc fixes for this patch I'd like to see:

Bound Armaments:
1. Provide the 8% stamina on the active skill, instead of passively so we don't need to double bar it.
2. Increase duration of self buffs like this across the board or remove them entirely and code the game to read both of your bars to see if you have it slotted, 40s is way too short. Toggle even? This patch was suppose improve buff management.
3. Give 2 stacks for a heavy attack instead of 1 like NBs Grim Focus.
4. Adjust the 0.3s frequency of the daggers firing out to 0.2 or even 0.1, this skill is not only extremely telegraphed pre-fire with the floating purple daggers, but due to the delay, extremely easy post-fire to dodge it completely.

If you do all of the above, remove the 50% cost reduction for firing daggers. These changes will make the skill more fun and reliable to use without breaking anything, I'd like a different buff than Stamina that is more hybrid friendly like crit chance, but that's another can of worms for another day.

Crystal Weapon:
1. Okay, treat its scaling as a ranged spammable for -10% DMG, but change the ranking increase to damage instead of penetration. Crushing Weapon, Surprise Attack, Wrecking Blow, Crystal Frag and Rapid Strike rank up in damage, all of which have secondary effects too... Yet Crystal Weapon is the only one where the secondary effect is the focus of the ranking. It's literally the weakest spammable in the game now. It makes no sense and puts CW more than 10% behind these spammables, it's really -15% and 1k penetration is very weak, even if unnamed.
2. Increase the pen from 1k or remove it entirely for Sundered. This debuff doesn't secure stam sorcs a slot in raids, it's too small and infrequent to build around. This would increase the damage slightly, while capping the unnamed effect to a debuff making it weaker for groups, but stronger for Sorc - without pushing it overboard like update 34.
3. Increase the 2nd tick of damage from 30% to 50% or build a new stacking mechanic like Whip, the tick is so weak right now it barely passes any other skill you could weave it with that would pass the first tick outside of another spammable, I'd rather just cast it back to back for the first tick at this point like update 33 which defeats the purpose of the changes, we don't want to run 2 spammables on a class with no bar space.

If you do all of the above, remove the 10% cost reduction on next skill cast, Sorc has enough cost and sustain related bonuses, I'd rather the skill be more fun and competitive to use if this is holding it back.. There is a risk/reward playstyle using a skill like this over basic instant cast abilities that doesn't seem to be accounted for in your balance pass. Crushing Weapon is similar, but when it doesn't work you get a refund, when it does, you get major breach for 6x more pen, more raw damage and more DPS via the 5 orb passive.

Surge:
1. Increase the duration from 33s to 40s or even 60s - lines up with new standards, apply this same logic to all class self buffs. It is very odd that you didn't address this in a patch focused on easing buff management.
2. Adjust the CD on Crit Surge from 1s to 0.9s or lower to account for server vs client damage timing calculations, this would make it more consistent with how actual damage is timed.
3. Rebalance this skill for ESO's 2022 context, Crit Surge has only been buffed by 300 in the past 5 or 6 years, yet player health and damage has risen leaving the skill in limbo with no scaling to compensate. Increase the flat amount or make it scale. These morphs are Sorc's only hot, while they're strong on paper no doubt, Sorc doesn't have much to stack it with and it's a proc condition based on dealing critical damage, of which, crit chance has been lowered drastically recently. Heal and Damage tick frequency has also lowered by 50%-75%. We used to have DoTs and HoTs that ticked every 0.5s and we're at 1-2s now.
4. Change Power Surge from 3s CD to 2s or even 1s to account for how difficult it is to stack consistent Crit Heals harder than Crit Damage. Adjust the power of the skill accordingly downwards.

Shields and Defense.
1. Sorc is the only class that requires 2 slots for their burst heal, it's a good skill, but it gets killed when you need it and the 2 slots isn't worth the pitiful damage it does- space is too tight. This issue was magnified with the hybrid changes, all stam builds started using their class burst heal while mag builds started using Vigor - Sorc saw no real change or benefit here.
2. I'm willing to concede we can't have a 1 skill slot burst heal if Shields scaled off resources AND damage. This 1 change alone would open up a ton of build diversity and solidify Sorc's way of healing through damage is a mixture of HoTs underlayered through Shields which is effectively the same result, but unique. For reference, Resto Shield already scales from damage so what is the problem exactly?

Dark Deal vs Dark Exchange.
1. A bit heavy handed with the stam cost increase, but the increased return is nice.. I'm neutral.
2. Dark Deal's 10s, but quicker return is interesting.. it messes with prebuffing in pvp, but stam Sorc typically only fights for 10s before peeling and casting this again anyway, so again.. neutral.
3. Think about adding a very low hot to this skill to help with Sorcs self sustain in a more reliable, on demand way outside Surge. Aka.. do what you did to the resource return a few years ago. Instead of 100% upfront, give 75% upfront and 50% over the duration.

To illustrate that with current values:
Dark Deal = 6k health + 4k over 10s.
Dark Exchange = 7.5k + 5k over 20s.

Passives:
1. Adjust them for 2022 ESO context, the passives were made before Necro came out and the focus changed from multipliers to flat values. Aka, 10% mag Regen and 20% stam Regen are vastly weaker than 200 Stam/Mag Regen. DK and Templar had hybridized passives that made them much stronger and updates to things like combustion and world in ruin.
2. There is 6/12 sustain related passives - please give some love to healer, tanking or utility kits. Some classes have 2-3 sustain passives worth 6 of ours. Not asking to change how Sorc functions as a squishy class, but give something to those area's that supports that idea.. eg.. the -100% dodge roll cost you just gave to NBs. Very cool idea, fits their theme, yet still defensive.
3. Finish your hybrid pass on Crit/Damage, NB and Sorc still can't use their minor crit buff easily because we only have sets or Camo Hunter to get both crit buffs - we want an active option like Potions or a Skill.

Buffs/Debuffs:
1. Where Warden has a problem of too much of their power being centered around named Buffs/Debuffs, Sorc has the opposite. We have to spend too many skill, set, potion or poison slots to get access to them when we already use up 4-5 slots to prepare delayed burst or 2 for a class burst heal, arguably the tightest bar space of any class. Some classes have major/minor buffs and Debuffs attached to passives and numerous skills within their kit that make them one man armies.
2. Not asking for a lot, something as basic as major savagery on a skill we already use to help build variety would be nice.. sick of using Camo Hunter and Razor Caltrops for very basic buffs. I don't even dream about using Defile, Vitality or Mending. You added minor protection to Bound Aegis, but you basically solidified an already niche skill as only usable by tanks. If the shield changes went through, then minor endurance and intellect would be nice bonuses, but again, sustain related on a class with a billion sustain bonuses.
3. Do a damage type pass like DKs to make sure most if not all damage is Shock or Physical.
4. Don't need 10% element damage like Warden, but please give us a unique element bonus to play off of for shock/physical like Warden's 10% Crit Damage/Healing or DK's 50% poisoned/burning damage and resource return. Eg.. 10% chance on any physical/shock damage to deal 10% of the damage inflicted to enemies within 5m- this effect has a 1s CD or +20% damage to sundered/concussed status effects.

Atronach Ult:
1. I understand the nerf because you allowed the synergy to effect the caster, but you went too far and didn't consider the risk/reward again. 20s would be a fairer place than 15s as it takes a long time for the Atro to begin dealin damage due to the animation. This would let it surpass an ult like meteor damage wise, at least on a dummy. The atro can still be stunned, killed and it sits stationary where you use it. Besides body blocking (which should be removed from the game and can be avoided via tab targeting) I fail to see the positives of this ability and morphs anymore.

Iron_Blurr

No mention of NB tank improvements? Dark cloak is trash now. Heals that scale with missing health work on DK because you can shield up to quickly stop the bleeding and pad your health with a shield and get major mending to then burst heal yourself back up.

You can't reactively heal with a healing over time ability that heals for less than half of base green dragon blood and has no bonuses to vitality or major mending.
Yes the long duration means more total healing per cast. But it also means you have to wait twice as long to see the benefit. You won't survive holding a trial boss at half health for 10 seconds.

merpins

I've seen a few people ask, but what about the Templar change to Puncturing Strikes and its morphs?

From what I've seen over nearly 9 years playing this game, the original Puncturing Strikes and its morphs is an extremely favored skill in the game. Players love how it looks and feels to use, it's not like Dive on Warden where it's the only spammable the class has; players like the skill. It could be nerfed, and players would still use the skill despite nerfs because it is such a fun skill to use. Rather than changing the animation, the skill animation could be sped up to .8 seconds, and the damage could be reduced to compensate that. I don't think changing the animation of a player-favorite skill is something that should be done. It's something that should be done on skills where players absolutely hate the skill animation and how it feels to use;
players love Puncturing Strikes, how it looks, and how it feels to use. Nerfing the damage a bit won't change that.

An example of a skill players very much dislike is Warden's Dive skill and its morphs. It's slow and doesn't feel good to use, and after its nerf, it's pretty lack-luster now. THIS should be a skill worth looking at animation changes, not skills players adore.

A good example of a skill that was worth changing is Flurry and its morphs. I have not met many people that like flurry's original animation or how it felt to use. The new animation is a bit lacking, but the intent of changing the old one to something that feels better to use is good. And it does feel good to use now! Though it's a bit slow for the theme of a flurry of blows, and the animation is definitely either the light or heavy attack animation for dual wield, so the skill itself does deserve its own unique animation that follows the theme, or at worst a re-name. But otherwise, I like the intent here. It shows that the devs were listening to the players, a majority of whom did not like this skill and how it felt to use. It's not perfect. But it's better than it was.

Further, if you are going to revamp old skill animations, these animations should be better than the old animations. Time should be taken, unique 3D models and VFX should be made and used, and they should be overall visual upgrades in comparison to the old animation. From what I see on the new animation, it's stiff, the 3D model for the spear is a reused asset from the Nighthollow Staff, and the VFX boils down to just shimmering texture and a glowing light source.

I'm an animator, that's my job. I mainly animate for television and movies, but have done some work on games. The old animation was better, objectively. Exaggeration, anticipation, follow through, arcs, slow in and slow out... It used the principles of animation in a much better way than the new animation. See, the principles exist because without them, animation looks bad. A cartoon doesn't look like reality if you rotoscope exactly, it looks more alive if you exaggerate movements, squash and stretch beyond what a normal human can, etc.

Watch the new animation closely. The first two attacks are exactly the same with no variation in timing. There's no slow in or slow out, anticipation, squash or stretch, or exaggeration. It's just a straight forward animation, frame by frame. It feels stiff, like a robot is moving. The last jab is also slow. It pulls back at the same speed that it stabs, which does not look like a stab.

Here's how I'd fix the animation; for one, there would be variation in the first two strikes, which wouldn't be perfect stabs but have little arcs that the tip of the spear moves in to make it look alive and like an actual warrior is wielding the spear. The arms wouldn't move in perfect repetition. There would be a slight pause at the end of the pull back animation for the first two strikes, and the stab itself would launch forward faster. The body would also move back with the pull back, and arch forward when attacking. Not as much as the final attack, but the body would move a bit unlike the current animation. The second stab would not pull back as far as the first. They're two quick jabs, and pulling back that far both makes the timing of the animation slower, but also makes it look weird. The final attack would pull back similar to how it does, but the launch forward would be faster, and the spear would reach further. It would go in a straight line this time to contrast the arcs from the first two hits, as the arms themselves would be moving in arcs. The character would let go of the spear with their left hand towards the end of the animation to allow them to lunge forward even more than before, which would also give it a better explosive feeling.

That's how I'd fix it. Right now, it needs a complete rework, from the model used for the spear, to the VFX, to the animation.

ZoS, player skills are things we use every day. Spammables are skills we see over and over again, sometimes hundreds of times in a single fight. Please don't change the skills we love for the worst. I'm sure someone worked hard to make the new animation for Puncturing Strikes, but it's also obvious that corners were cut in order to do it quickly. Please don't cut corners when making animation for skills players use. I beg you.

UrQuan

OK, here's my 2 cents.

If the goal is to raise the floor and lower the ceiling, then I still think the changes miss the mark significantly, because I still don't see the floor being raised. Brand new players who have no idea what they're doing might see a small increase in their DPS, but everyone else (including top players, experienced but mid-tier players like myself, and casual players) will see a decrease. It feels like taking a 3 story house, removing the top story, and then raising the floor of the bottom story by about 2 inches.

Having said that, I think that if DPS is being nerfed for top and mid-tier players, then going back and adjusting health of bosses and banners in vet dungeons & trials (without touching bosses and banners in non-vet dungeons and trials) is a step in the right direction to avoid having players suddenly unable to complete content they'd been doing just fine pre-update.

I still have major concerns about this update, however. I'm going to echo what a lot of people have been saying about the changes to HoTs still being a concern. DPS has been nerfed, so boss health is being adjusted to compensate, but heals have also been nerfed, so shouldn't the damage output of bosses, banners, and mechanics in vet dungeons/trials be adjusted as well?

My biggest concern, though, is that at this point it's very obvious that the original plan for these massive changes was not well thought out, and the changes didn't come close to having the desired effect. As I've already said, adjusting the health values in vet content is a step in the right direction to mitigating some of the damage done by these combat balance changes, but it's coming late in the test cycle, and frankly it's a band-aid solution, when what we need is something more comprehensive. There simply isn't enough time to test it, make any further adjustments needed based on that testing, and then retest the adjustments before it goes live.

At this point I think the smart plan would be to delay the balance changes, and go back to the drawing board to try to come up with a better thought-out and more holistic approach (probably still including a nerf to DPS for top and mid-tier players, and probably still including an adjustment to the health of vet bosses/banners). Once that's done, start a new PTS cycle to make sure the new balance changes actually achieve the goals of raising the floor and lowering the ceiling.

Edit: I forgot to mention, for the sake of people like myself with physical limitations, please keep in mind that balance changes that result in increased use of spammables make the game less accessible. My nerve damaged fingers don't do well with constantly hitting the same button over and over in a row.

siddique

Let me get this straight.
You said you were making content more accessible, and for that you played around by nerfing dps (LA nerf, longer dot times etc.) then you realized that the changes were not thought out, and instead of admitting to it, you decided to come up with "Sticky DoTs/HoTs and Non-Sticky DoTs/HoTs" where you partially went back to what it is on Live server.

Next week you realized that you were still wrong and people are still leaving, so you decide to scale LAs again "just not as much." but you nerf the health of all veteran and hardmode enemies to bring the difficulty back to what is on Live server.

So, after 5 weeks of a PTS cycle, we'll still have the same difficulty of content as it is on Live and a multitude of dot timers to manage.

Did I get all of this right?
So, once again, who asked for all this running around in a circle?

EDIT:
Listen to the sane voices, and just revert these combat changes. Re-think. You are now realizing 4 weeks into it how messed up this is, and in the next two weeks you'll do a half-baked hasty so-called fix, breaking multiple things.

Aratrontelvanni

I feel like so many people in this thread didn’t actually read the entire post, or haven’t been following the whole PTS cycle. There’s still a lot of changes going in besides nerfing player damage and nerfing boss health.

Sandman929

Aratrontelvanni wrote: »

I feel like so many people in this thread didn’t actually read the entire post, or haven’t been following the whole PTS cycle. There’s still a lot of changes going in besides nerfing player damage and nerfing boss health.

Shocking that there isn't more trust, right?

Stx

This post gave me hope, but then in the end you basically conveyed that you haven't learned anything.

No mention of Oakensoul, no mention of Surprise attack, no mention of templar jabs? No plans to revert the new awful jabs animation, or revert the gutting of sticky dot damage? If you leave sticky dots like this, no one will ever use them.. they are worthless with such low dps.

Sync01

Tar000un wrote: »

Sync01 wrote: »

While it is nice to see that you aren't ignoring all feedback it's just too little, too late. The damage has already been done and players have lost faith in the devs and the future of the game. A good chunk of the end game players I used to do trials with has left, and teams have disbanded in every high end guild I know.

Some people have already mentioned it, but you need to address healing. There is no point in scaling hp of bosses if you're not also scaling the dps ticks from bosses in certain trials, because now you're just shifting groups wiping due to failing dps checks to groups wiping due to failing hps checks.

Rollback of hots to 10s is adressing that afaik, but I didnt test healing on PTS, I mean self heal is sticky heal and got 20s duration. While main aoe hots are back to 10s.

Tar000un wrote: »

Sync01 wrote: »

While it is nice to see that you aren't ignoring all feedback it's just too little, too late. The damage has already been done and players have lost faith in the devs and the future of the game. A good chunk of the end game players I used to do trials with has left, and teams have disbanded in every high end guild I know.

Some people have already mentioned it, but you need to address healing. There is no point in scaling hp of bosses if you're not also scaling the dps ticks from bosses in certain trials, because now you're just shifting groups wiping due to failing dps checks to groups wiping due to failing hps checks.

Rollback of hots to 10s is adressing that afaik, but I didnt test healing on PTS, I mean self heal is sticky heal and got 20s duration. While main aoe hots are back to 10s.

Healing is still a mess, here's a thread going into more details:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/613270/healer-toolkit-u35-week-3-feedback#latest

xylena_lazarow

Anyone looking at the extremely poor DoT dps in PvP, especially with that ridiculous Mara's Balm heal proc set?

FearTheRealFett

To be honest this type of communication would have helped at the start of update 35.

This late in to the PTS there have already been so many posts and videos expressing the major dislike of update 35 that new, returning, and core community all took a hit. Players are leaving and those who are staying don’t have much fight left in them.

Before update 35 was announced I would hope all ZOS teams would have come together with a solid battle plan. Not to go to war with the community but to align themselves with us and help improve the gameplay and quality of life of a game we have loved for so long.

Making everyone happy is very hard to do. New content usually does this. Bug fixes and quality of life changes usually do this too. A nerf bat and combat overhaul usually won’t. Why wait till the damage is done to the community to course correct and not start off with minor changes or new additions first?

Trust is very hard to earn but much easier to lose. Please do better with and for the community. Thank you

Lannharr

Please provide skills and gear usable only in PVP, and of course, skills and gear only usable in PVE.

With this solution no more mess with gear and skills on every update.

Psiion

Greetings,

After removing some posts, we would like to remind everyone that Bashing is neither constructive or allowed per the Forum's Community Rules. The team welcomes feedback from all angles, but discussion and posts on the Forum's must stay within the Community Rules. Please remember to be respectful and constructive at all times on our forums, and help us maintain a friendly and welcoming atmosphere for all.

The Forum Community Rules can be reviewed here.

Sedare38

You still haven't addressed killing nightblade gank burst. Resistsances are as OP as ever, and healing has BARELY been touched. Meanwhile you haven't given design notes as to why Shadowy no longer suppresses dots, while actively making dots last longer, AND you didn't state why Caluurion's got a shadow nerf (no actual explanation). Oakensoul made it overused and abused, you nerfed it. No need to nerf this set which requires a crit heavy/light attack, can be dodged easily, etc.

Riptide

I do appreciate this post. It will at least tide over long enough to see how things look at live. I’ve unsubbed and have enough time left to take a look at that. But as I raid in Destiny 2 some already, have Warframe and Stray installed but as yet unplayed, and several other games unplayed as well - at this point there will have to be some net positive to reclick the subscribe button.

I was in a place where I probably would have let the sub just run passively four weeks ago, but again, looking at a net positive now. If I were in the retention business at zos I’d be looking to break out whatever sweetners I had in my pocket about now, because Im betting it would be a good time for it.

And honestly, whoever internally has made the call to do combat updates the quarter after expansions throws away so many passive subscriptions between those expansions. Whatever the reasoning it is doesn’t take into account that once a year lots of us resub and give ESO one more go. A soup sandwich just a month or two into that makes it an easy decision on whether to stick around, or to amble back out.

PrincessOfThieves

Thank you. I still think that U35 balance changes were harmful and unnecessary, but this is certainly a step in the right direction.

Pevey

Kudos for having Gina write this. It comes across much better than some other recent communications.

But that's the best I can say about it. It makes no sense to do this instead of just reversing course and taking more time to think things through.

Nothing will be accomplished by this. No pros, only cons. No narrowing of the gap. Only frustrating players who will once again have to adapt to sweeping changes.

Reducing nominal damage does nothing. The increase in skill required to go from 40k to 120k in one game vs going from 40k to 90k in another game may be exactly the same, or more, or less. They are just nominal numbers with no meaning on their own. Here, you have touched almost every skill and completely redefined classes just to show lower numbers. To what end? They don't mean anything. You have not reduced the skill gap.

To reduce the skill gap, you could have just started here where you have ended up and adjusted certain vet and HM content to a different completion rate and focused on open-ended leaderboard rewards for the top players doing "obscene" damage.

Also, no new feedback has been presented that is meaningfully different than what was provided to you within the first few days of week 1 pts going live. It doesn't give us hope that we figured these things out immediately, but the devs are just catching on.

FeedbackOnly

PingTheAwesome wrote: »

This is better. Thank you.

Healer's take: You still haven't said what you're doing to our heals. Additionally, while you're reducing the health of the bosses, you do not mention addressing the damage that they do now that you've made it clear you intend to also nerf heals.

This needs addressing.

Most of healing is still over healing. We are fine

HeroOfNone

I think this will be good but a few thoughts:
- What will happen to empower? It was set to a flat amount but now with scaling damage for light/heavy attacks, wi it be reverted?
- Will the heavy attack damage per animation time still apply?
- Will other changes to skills/set (like the DKs molten armaments) that scaled with light and heavy attacks be reverted?
- If we're scaling with stats, can we add in scaling damage for sword and board & Ice staff based on health or armor? If not damage maybe resource return?
- Are there any plans to address the sets that have been driving the light attack dps meta? Sets like relequin, Kinrahs, tzog, etc?

Anhedonie

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

and we truly believe with some continued adjustments and iterations, this is the best course of action for the long-term health of the game.

You're beyond saving guys.

Morimizo

This one is simple Khajiit, but seems that what principally 'competes with the goal' of 'raising the floor' is the significant lowering of everyone's DPS and HPS. Unless this strategy is changed, no adjustment will ever accomplish the goal.

Firstmep

I also want to say, it's probably better if Gina makes these kinds of posts in the future.
I have nothing against Gilliam, I think the amount of jargon used can make it difficult to get his points across.

Tommy_The_Gun

It is great to hear that you hear us, players and acknowledge that the problematic things still exists. Especially if you consider the abnormal (for PTS) amount of players taking voice and more or less being unhappy or worried about the future of this game. Communication is very important.

I play this game since 2014 and this is the 1st PTS cycle where I saw devs messaging what they are intend to do in the next PTS cycle (1st Gilliam & now Gina). This is very good. If it will improve the quality of the feedback, then maybe it will be worth it for it to become a norm in every future PTS rounds - to say what next PTS cycle will be about.

neferpitou73

siddique wrote: »

Let me get this straight.
You said you were making content more accessible, and for that you played around by nerfing dps (LA nerf, longer dot times etc.) then you realized that the changes were not thought out, and instead of admitting to it, you decided to come up with "Sticky DoTs/HoTs and Non-Sticky DoTs/HoTs" where you partially went back to what it is on Live server.

Next week you realized that you were still wrong and people are still leaving, so you decide to scale LAs again "just not as much." but you nerf the health of all veteran and hardmode enemies to bring the difficulty back to what is on Live server.

So, after 5 weeks of a PTS cycle, we'll still have the same difficulty of content as it is on Live and a multitude of dot timers to manage.

Did I get all of this right?
So, once again, who asked for all this running around in a circle?

EDIT:
Listen to the sane voices, and just revert these combat changes. Re-think. You are now realizing 4 weeks into it how messed up this is, and in the next two weeks you'll do a half-baked hasty so-called fix, breaking multiple things.

Yeah this about sums it up

VaranisArano

As a bit of feedback for the Communication Team and any Devs who are looking at the process of talking to the Community here, I'd like to throw in my two cents.

First, thanks. It's not easy to show up and tell people what they don't want to hear, but the transparency is appreciated.

Second, the last patch that I remember having both a really high level of outcry and this sort of major PTS walk back is probably Murkmire, which we nicknamed "Nerfmire." I think that for Update 35 you've done a lot better with communicating about the areas that will be addressed in future patches. We were told to expect an update, we got the update describing what to expect on the patch notes, and then we got the patch notes. I think that's a nice change, and a good way to formally set our expectations as far as communication goes. This is probably the best the team has done in terms of managing player expectations.

Third, even though the level of forum drama has been pretty high this patch, I've noticed that these updates telling us what to expect have resulted in a lot more substantive feedback about the areas that are mentioned or left out. There's been less of the typical "ZOS said nothing, we're doomed" type posts that are very typical of PTS week 2. Now, there may have been plenty of "ZOS said something, we're doomed" posts, but hopefully there was some substantive feedback in all that.


So I would like to share that I really appreciate these pre-patch note updates, and I would encourage the Devs and the communication team to continue doing them even with PTS updates that are less contentious.

I also hope, though I have no real way of measuring this, that by telling players ahead of time what areas you are thinking if addressing in the next patch, the Devs are able to get more targeted, and focused feedback on those areas.

As much as these updates serve as a lightning rod for dissatisfied players (and always will), they play an important role in demonstrating that the PTS feedback does not fall on deaf ears. The Devs' ears may not agree with what we have to say, of course, but these show that they are engaging with our feedback nonetheless.

Jaraal

Chef42 wrote: »

I just got very confused by something here. Gina said "We ultimately want to help raise the floor and....", what has actually been done to raise the floor? This is a serious question. I have seen nothing on the PTS that raises the floor at all.

Back on week 1 of the PTS using the same toon, gear, CP, food, pots, I lost about 20% of my damage dropping from 54K on live to 44k on the PTS. If your raising the floor, with that same setup I should be hitting more than 54k on PTS now? What change made this happen?

Once again, I am not being sarcastic. I would really like to know.

They said they were raising the floor by making DOTs last longer, so they would be easier for lower tier players to keep track of. But what they ended up doing is creating two different classes of DOT timers (sticky and area), so now the DOT tracking requirements are doubled from Live.

Necrotech_Master

Jaraal wrote: »

Chef42 wrote: »

I just got very confused by something here. Gina said "We ultimately want to help raise the floor and....", what has actually been done to raise the floor? This is a serious question. I have seen nothing on the PTS that raises the floor at all.

Back on week 1 of the PTS using the same toon, gear, CP, food, pots, I lost about 20% of my damage dropping from 54K on live to 44k on the PTS. If your raising the floor, with that same setup I should be hitting more than 54k on PTS now? What change made this happen?

Once again, I am not being sarcastic. I would really like to know.

They said they were raising the floor by making DOTs last longer, so they would be easier for lower tier players to keep track of. But what they ended up doing is creating two different classes of DOT timers (sticky and area), so now the DOT tracking requirements are doubled from Live.

nerfing dots to do less dmg also didnt really help from where they are on live either