Let's talk about these DoTs, props to Skinny Cheeks (his work not mine)

Mr_Stach

Before we start, credit where it's due, @skinnycheeks made a great video breaking down a lot of stuff from last week along with these great break down tables that I'll be showing, these are not my work, they are his but I think it would be great to start a dialogue on how the changes affected each of the classes.
Also go watch the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArpuZKqDekc&t=2556s

Dragonknight:

Necromancer:

Nightblade:

Sorcerer:

Templar:

Warden:


As we all know DoTs were decimated, and Zos expended some form of effort to try to make thing balance across the board, but that was about as successful as their attempt of making things more accessible. The Actual Range of Damage here is insane and I know people will probably roll their eyes at me once again, but basically day one I mentioned the disparity on how Zos went and just Buffed and Nerfed Ground AoEs for Example,

Cinder Storm: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 7%.
Boneyard: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Lightning Splash: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Spear Shards: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 33%.
WInter's Revenge: Decreased the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 33%.
Twisting Path: Reduced the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 29%.

Well it turns out Winter's Revenge and Twisting Path getting ~30% Nerfs while the other Class AoEs got buffs would put them in the dumpster.

But on to better things, These numbers are wild, everything is all over the place. I haven't really done much testing not on Warden, because I primarily play Warden. I don't think that everything should be the same damage, that's boring, I do think that every class should have a specialty, I thought that Warden's Specialty was doing the most Frost Damage but looking at Boneyard, maybe Warden's Specialty is just a Participation Award.

Ah well. What are your thoughts, I'm Rambling now.

Skjaldbjorn

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I do think that every class should have a specialty, I thought that Warden's Specialty was doing the most Frost Damage but looking at Boneyard, maybe Warden's Specialty is just a Participation Award.

Stx

I agree that the buffs/nerfs to the dots post 20 second standardization don't make any sense.

Winter's revenge and twisting path went from being some of the strongest dots in the game to being the weakest.

On my nightblade, deadly cloak and shade outperform twisting path and stampede/volley, and bosses can't walk out of deadly cloak/shade, so what purpose do the ground dots serve? To tickle trash mobs?

The only testing I did that conflicts with that chart you posted is that for my stamblade, carve deals a lot more dps than that. I think for me carve deals just slightly less than shade and Debilitate.

Billium813

> the increase in duration doesn't make much sense outside the sterile environment of Target Dummies

I really think this point needs to be appreciated. These extended durations just don't seem to respect the fluidity of combat they profess to be catering to IMO. New players kite the boss around, they recast too early, they don't place aoes correctly, DoTs get cleansed/removed. Nerfing the base damage makes them really back heavy when the full duration is less likely to even be approached.

IMO, I think most ground based DoTs would benefit from a scaling model similar to Thunderous Volley + Ritual of Retribution. Have the damage start low, but ramp up faster ( like +18% damage per tick), but cap it at a specific number of ticks.

All in all, these DoT/Buff changes feel very poorly thought out. It feels like they said "Oh, just double the time on stuff" and moved on. The worst part being that many of these changes seem to run counter to their whole reason of doing it for the new players.

Firstmep

I still dont get how 20 second ground dots make sense.
Especially with the dps nerfs to these skills it feels like they want more static and longer fights, but why?
But some sources of empower still only last 5 seconds, like so much of this makes 0 sense.

Didgerion

I do believe we need 4 seconds bursty dots and hots with a 1s tick to make the game interesting and balanced.

NordSwordnBoard

This is an outstanding buff to players that like to put AoE skills all over crowded areas. Now they can type 50% more in ZC due to simplifying their rotation.

Cyber10

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Before we start, credit where it's due, @skinnycheeks made a great video breaking down a lot of stuff from last week along with these great break down tables that I'll be showing, these are not my work, they are his but I think it would be great to start a dialogue on how the changes affected each of the classes.
Also go watch the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArpuZKqDekc&t=2556s

Dragonknight:

Necromancer:

Nightblade:

Sorcerer:

Templar:

Warden:


As we all know DoTs were decimated, and Zos expended some form of effort to try to make thing balance across the board, but that was about as successful as their attempt of making things more accessible. The Actual Range of Damage here is insane and I know people will probably roll their eyes at me once again, but basically day one I mentioned the disparity on how Zos went and just Buffed and Nerfed Ground AoEs for Example,

Cinder Storm: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 7%.
Boneyard: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Lightning Splash: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Spear Shards: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 33%.
WInter's Revenge: Decreased the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 33%.
Twisting Path: Reduced the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 29%.

Well it turns out Winter's Revenge and Twisting Path getting ~30% Nerfs while the other Class AoEs got buffs would put them in the dumpster.

But on to better things, These numbers are wild, everything is all over the place. I haven't really done much testing not on Warden, because I primarily play Warden. I don't think that everything should be the same damage, that's boring, I do think that every class should have a specialty, I thought that Warden's Specialty was doing the most Frost Damage but looking at Boneyard, maybe Warden's Specialty is just a Participation Award.

Ah well. What are your thoughts, I'm Rambling now.

Skinnycheeks is always on point. I watched this video last night and it is solid. ZOS should listen.

katorga

Cyber10 wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Before we start, credit where it's due, @skinnycheeks made a great video breaking down a lot of stuff from last week along with these great break down tables that I'll be showing, these are not my work, they are his but I think it would be great to start a dialogue on how the changes affected each of the classes.
Also go watch the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArpuZKqDekc&t=2556s

Dragonknight:

Necromancer:

Nightblade:

Sorcerer:

Templar:

Warden:


As we all know DoTs were decimated, and Zos expended some form of effort to try to make thing balance across the board, but that was about as successful as their attempt of making things more accessible. The Actual Range of Damage here is insane and I know people will probably roll their eyes at me once again, but basically day one I mentioned the disparity on how Zos went and just Buffed and Nerfed Ground AoEs for Example,

Cinder Storm: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 7%.
Boneyard: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Lightning Splash: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Spear Shards: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 33%.
WInter's Revenge: Decreased the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 33%.
Twisting Path: Reduced the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 29%.

Well it turns out Winter's Revenge and Twisting Path getting ~30% Nerfs while the other Class AoEs got buffs would put them in the dumpster.

But on to better things, These numbers are wild, everything is all over the place. I haven't really done much testing not on Warden, because I primarily play Warden. I don't think that everything should be the same damage, that's boring, I do think that every class should have a specialty, I thought that Warden's Specialty was doing the most Frost Damage but looking at Boneyard, maybe Warden's Specialty is just a Participation Award.

Ah well. What are your thoughts, I'm Rambling now.

Skinnycheeks is always on point. I watched this video last night and it is solid. ZOS should listen.

I liked the video, but I noticed a LOT of "this should be adjusted a little" type comments. Leading me to think what planet is he on? ZOS doesn't adjust or tune in increments.

Mr_Stach

katorga wrote: »

Cyber10 wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Before we start, credit where it's due, @skinnycheeks made a great video breaking down a lot of stuff from last week along with these great break down tables that I'll be showing, these are not my work, they are his but I think it would be great to start a dialogue on how the changes affected each of the classes.
Also go watch the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArpuZKqDekc&t=2556s

Dragonknight:

Necromancer:

Nightblade:

Sorcerer:

Templar:

Warden:


As we all know DoTs were decimated, and Zos expended some form of effort to try to make thing balance across the board, but that was about as successful as their attempt of making things more accessible. The Actual Range of Damage here is insane and I know people will probably roll their eyes at me once again, but basically day one I mentioned the disparity on how Zos went and just Buffed and Nerfed Ground AoEs for Example,

Cinder Storm: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 7%.
Boneyard: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Lightning Splash: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Spear Shards: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 33%.
WInter's Revenge: Decreased the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 33%.
Twisting Path: Reduced the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 29%.

Well it turns out Winter's Revenge and Twisting Path getting ~30% Nerfs while the other Class AoEs got buffs would put them in the dumpster.

But on to better things, These numbers are wild, everything is all over the place. I haven't really done much testing not on Warden, because I primarily play Warden. I don't think that everything should be the same damage, that's boring, I do think that every class should have a specialty, I thought that Warden's Specialty was doing the most Frost Damage but looking at Boneyard, maybe Warden's Specialty is just a Participation Award.

Ah well. What are your thoughts, I'm Rambling now.

Skinnycheeks is always on point. I watched this video last night and it is solid. ZOS should listen.

I liked the video, but I noticed a LOT of "this should be adjusted a little" type comments. Leading me to think what planet is he on? ZOS doesn't adjust or tune in increments.

Probably in the "I should present this a little conservatively to keep Zos from just rolling their eyes at me. just let the data speak for itself"

MashmalloMan

Cyber10 wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Before we start, credit where it's due, @skinnycheeks made a great video breaking down a lot of stuff from last week along with these great break down tables that I'll be showing, these are not my work, they are his but I think it would be great to start a dialogue on how the changes affected each of the classes.
Also go watch the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArpuZKqDekc&t=2556s

Dragonknight:

Necromancer:

Nightblade:

Sorcerer:

Templar:

Warden:


As we all know DoTs were decimated, and Zos expended some form of effort to try to make thing balance across the board, but that was about as successful as their attempt of making things more accessible. The Actual Range of Damage here is insane and I know people will probably roll their eyes at me once again, but basically day one I mentioned the disparity on how Zos went and just Buffed and Nerfed Ground AoEs for Example,

Cinder Storm: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 7%.
Boneyard: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Lightning Splash: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Spear Shards: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 33%.
WInter's Revenge: Decreased the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 33%.
Twisting Path: Reduced the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 29%.

Well it turns out Winter's Revenge and Twisting Path getting ~30% Nerfs while the other Class AoEs got buffs would put them in the dumpster.

But on to better things, These numbers are wild, everything is all over the place. I haven't really done much testing not on Warden, because I primarily play Warden. I don't think that everything should be the same damage, that's boring, I do think that every class should have a specialty, I thought that Warden's Specialty was doing the most Frost Damage but looking at Boneyard, maybe Warden's Specialty is just a Participation Award.

Ah well. What are your thoughts, I'm Rambling now.

Skinnycheeks is always on point. I watched this video last night and it is solid. ZOS should listen.

Have to say, after quoting the entire OP I was a bit underwhelmed by your response

MashmalloMan

katorga wrote: »

Cyber10 wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Before we start, credit where it's due, @skinnycheeks made a great video breaking down a lot of stuff from last week along with these great break down tables that I'll be showing, these are not my work, they are his but I think it would be great to start a dialogue on how the changes affected each of the classes.
Also go watch the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArpuZKqDekc&t=2556s

Dragonknight:

Necromancer:

Nightblade:

Sorcerer:

Templar:

Warden:


As we all know DoTs were decimated, and Zos expended some form of effort to try to make thing balance across the board, but that was about as successful as their attempt of making things more accessible. The Actual Range of Damage here is insane and I know people will probably roll their eyes at me once again, but basically day one I mentioned the disparity on how Zos went and just Buffed and Nerfed Ground AoEs for Example,

Cinder Storm: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 7%.
Boneyard: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Lightning Splash: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Spear Shards: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 33%.
WInter's Revenge: Decreased the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 33%.
Twisting Path: Reduced the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 29%.

Well it turns out Winter's Revenge and Twisting Path getting ~30% Nerfs while the other Class AoEs got buffs would put them in the dumpster.

But on to better things, These numbers are wild, everything is all over the place. I haven't really done much testing not on Warden, because I primarily play Warden. I don't think that everything should be the same damage, that's boring, I do think that every class should have a specialty, I thought that Warden's Specialty was doing the most Frost Damage but looking at Boneyard, maybe Warden's Specialty is just a Participation Award.

Ah well. What are your thoughts, I'm Rambling now.

Skinnycheeks is always on point. I watched this video last night and it is solid. ZOS should listen.

I liked the video, but I noticed a LOT of "this should be adjusted a little" type comments. Leading me to think what planet is he on? ZOS doesn't adjust or tune in increments.

I think it's more so we all need to come to the reality of the situatuon, the general objective of their changes to lower weaving damage and increase durations IS going to happen, the question is how they implement that. Where they can make it better, because frankly how it is, the scaling, the duration on some being 20, others being 22 or 24, as well as many class skills like Surge or Armaments not being touched, leaves a lot to be desired.

I think most of us could understand the objective, their entire execution was worse than I ever could of imagined.

When I originally read their objectives I assumed light attacks would be lowered to a flat 4k, not 2k to buff the low end and nerf the high end. I also thought their duration extentions made sense to buff skills like Surge to reduce mico management.. Instead, they just shifted the management to ill timed dots that are too long at 20-30s and then a few class passives left with no change that increase the skills from 20 to 22-24s making things more complicated then ever.

Dots are so weak that they're usually not worth using anymore.

Class identity has been gutted.