Which companion has the best personality?

Kurague

Ember

Syldras wrote: »

The more I read and think about it...

spartaxoxo wrote: »

It's interesting to me how much people call it being "moralistic" to be against theft and murder. It's like, people want to play their characters as morally gray or morally bad. But, then also don't want the games to treat those actions as bad.

Do they? I've seen several who just consider murdering and theft a normal part of the game and necessary to get certain items. They don't really consider it bad, so probably it's not about playing a morally bad character either, but they think it's just... "normal" in a way (and don't want to be judged for playing the "normal" way).

Kurague wrote: »

Me: Assassinates someone in cold blood with the Blade of Woe
Ember: HAHAHA THAT WAS SO EXCITING

That's one reason she wouldn't be of any use even for my assassin characters: Her yelling would draw everyone's attention to them, which is not exactly what you need if you want to get away unseen (of course I know it doesn't have any effect in game, but it would destroy my immersion, personally).

Yeah, I know, I just find it so funny.

Also, I do think we need a Draedra companion, but I feel like the next one is gonna be male and I don't do male characters, not even for companions so I'll probably pass. Don't judge, I just like having female companions.

DreamyLu

Bastian

I use only Bastian, so can only vote for him!

Treselegant

Bastian

Do they? I've seen several who just consider murdering and theft a normal part of the game and necessary to get certain items. They don't really consider it bad, so probably it's not about playing a morally bad character either, but they think it's just... "normal" in a way (and don't want to be judged for playing the "normal" way).

Very much agree. Its frequently more to do with a difference in play style and how the player percieves themselves in game. I once had a conversation with someone who felt the game was punishing them by having companions with reactions to murder and it seems there are others who feel the same.

I don't believe many people think that much about context. They probably just hate being "critized", no matter by whom and what for.

When I see some people creating 'torture rooms' for certain companions I can believe some take it very personally.

jtm1018

Mirri

aerox the mutilator, oh wait, just wanted it as a companion.

it is a it, right?

it is a rat? right?

barney2525

Kira

spartaxoxo

IDK/IDC

Treselegant wrote: »

When I see some people creating 'torture rooms' for certain companions I can believe some take it very personally.

This type of commentary and examples is why I think they are immersed and thus take the criticism personally.

Syldras

Mirri

Treselegant wrote: »

When I see some people creating 'torture rooms' for certain companions I can believe some take it very personally.

I find this weird, really. To be honest, I do have some kind of torture chamber in the basement of my Ebonheart Castle too (because an old spooky castle just "needs" one), and I once put the mime houseguest inside a cage for a few screenshots - but feeling anger or even hatred towards a fictional character?! I'd even say I take roleplaying quite "seriously", but this is somehow beyond my comprehension.

BretonMage

Bastian

Treselegant wrote: »

When I see some people creating 'torture rooms' for certain companions I can believe some take it very personally.

I had seen some people putting Bastian in silly dresses, which I suspected was meant to be disparaging and therefore spiteful, but torture rooms is... honestly, I’m at a complete loss for words.

I love being immersed in a game, but surely this points to an issue beyond mere immersion?

Syldras

Mirri

BretonMage wrote: »

I had seen some people putting Bastian in silly dresses, which I suspected was meant to be disparaging and therefore spiteful, but torture rooms is... honestly, I’m at a complete loss for words.
I love being immersed in a game, but surely this points to an issue beyond mere immersion?

If it's really based on hateful emotions, I'd call it anger issues. Especially if some simple comments make you think about torturing someone. Yes, of course it's just fiction in this case, but if being criticized makes you think about using severe violence against someone, I personally find it alarming.

SilverBride

Ember

BretonMage wrote: »

I had seen some people putting Bastian in silly dresses, which I suspected was meant to be disparaging and therefore spiteful...

I did not put Bastian in a maid outfit to be disparaging or spiteful. I did it in good humor in response to two posts on page 2 of this thread:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/587623/hint-on-the-mystery-reward/p2

Quoted posts:

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Bastian in a maid outfit!

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@phaneub17_ESO, honestly same.

spartaxoxo

IDK/IDC

SilverBride wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

I had seen some people putting Bastian in silly dresses, which I suspected was meant to be disparaging and therefore spiteful...

I did not put Bastian in a maid outfit to be disparaging or spiteful. I did it in good humor in response to two posts on page 2 of this thread:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/587623/hint-on-the-mystery-reward/p2

Quoted posts:

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Bastian in a maid outfit!

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@phaneub17_ESO, honestly same.

You may not have, but I have seen people put him in silly outfits explicitly because they hate him.

kieso

IDK/IDC

I haven't used ember much so I can't say but for me so far its.

Isobel - mirri - Bastian

SilverBride

Ember

spartaxoxo wrote: »

You may not have, but I have seen people put him in silly outfits explicitly because they hate him.

This may be true but why is that wrong? If it was the actual companion that fights along side us and interacts with us I would personally find it disturbing to put them in tortuous situations. But the houseguest versions of our companions are nothing more than furnishings. And silly outfits only makes them look silly.

We won't all like every companion. It's nothing personal if someone doesn't feel the same way about a companion that we do.

spartaxoxo

IDK/IDC

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

You may not have, but I have seen people put him in silly outfits explicitly because they hate him.

This may be true but why is that wrong? If it was the actual companion that fights along side us and interacts with us I would personally find it disturbing to put them in tortuous situations. But the houseguest versions of our companions are nothing more than furnishings. And silly outfits only makes them look silly.

We won't all like every companion. It's nothing personal if someone doesn't feel the same way about a companion that we do.

Where did I state it was wrong? I said that I think it shows the person was immersed into the story, and thus has a dislike of a character that is more personal to them than simply disliking the rapport mechanic.

Edit
If it was just about the gameplay mechanic, I would expect Isobel to receive the same reception as Bastian when it comes to morality rapport. Since they both dislike murder and theft.

Treselegant

Bastian

If it was just about the gameplay mechanic, I would expect Isobel to receive the same reception as Bastian when it comes to morality rapport. Since they both dislike murder and theft.

I actually waited to see if this would happen when High Isle released. Strangely enough there hasn't been much of a reaction beyond a few silly posts about her face.

I had seen some people putting Bastian in silly dresses, which I suspected was meant to be disparaging and therefore spiteful

I suspect for some it's just another jab at his masculinity as they seem to consider his more conscientious personality as unmanly. Always seems backward to me and not particularily funny to put a character in feminine dress as some sort of punishment.

spartaxoxo

IDK/IDC

Treselegant wrote: »

If it was just about the gameplay mechanic, I would expect Isobel to receive the same reception as Bastian when it comes to morality rapport. Since they both dislike murder and theft.

I actually waited to see if this would happen when High Isle released. Strangely enough there hasn't been much of a reaction beyond a few silly posts about her face.

I had seen some people putting Bastian in silly dresses, which I suspected was meant to be disparaging and therefore spiteful

I suspect for some it's just another jab at his masculinity as they seem to consider his more conscientious personality as unmanly. Always seems backward to me and not particularily funny to put a character in feminine dress as some sort of punishment.

Yeah, I suspect that may be another element. I hadn't really thought of that.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Bastian

Treselegant wrote: »

I actually waited to see if this would happen when High Isle released. Strangely enough there hasn't been much of a reaction beyond a few silly posts about her face.

Same. So far it seems Isobel gets less reactions about being a "goody two shoes" and too high and moral, and more gets reactions about her appearace. Don't know what I find worse.

SilverBride

Ember

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

You may not have, but I have seen people put him in silly outfits explicitly because they hate him.

This may be true but why is that wrong? If it was the actual companion that fights along side us and interacts with us I would personally find it disturbing to put them in tortuous situations. But the houseguest versions of our companions are nothing more than furnishings. And silly outfits only makes them look silly.

We won't all like every companion. It's nothing personal if someone doesn't feel the same way about a companion that we do.

Where did I state it was wrong? I said that I think it shows the person was immersed into the story, and thus has a dislike of a character that is more personal to them than simply disliking the rapport mechanic.

Edit
If it was just about the gameplay mechanic, I would expect Isobel to receive the same reception as Bastian when it comes to morality rapport. Since they both dislike murder and theft.

I was originally responding to another post. But it doesn't really matter to me how or why anyone else chooses to dress their companion the way they do.

Kurague

Ember

Treselegant wrote: »

If it was just about the gameplay mechanic, I would expect Isobel to receive the same reception as Bastian when it comes to morality rapport. Since they both dislike murder and theft.

I actually waited to see if this would happen when High Isle released. Strangely enough there hasn't been much of a reaction beyond a few silly posts about her face.

I had seen some people putting Bastian in silly dresses, which I suspected was meant to be disparaging and therefore spiteful

I suspect for some it's just another jab at his masculinity as they seem to consider his more conscientious personality as unmanly. Always seems backward to me and not particularily funny to put a character in feminine dress as some sort of punishment.

To me it's not about me hating the characters or anything, I love Mirri, both in personality and looks(Dunmers are the top race for me), but I hate that she straight up eliminates 2 important mechanics; Gathering, even if it's only bugs...And Assassination. Honestly, it's just poorly thought punishment, in my honest opinion. Sometimes, you need to blade of woe someone when you're stealthing, since if you don't, they can turn around and find you or whatever.
Not being allowed to grab bugs is just like a glass of cold water being poured in your back; It's an exploration RPG, why can't I pick my resources while I play?

A more logically made companion; Ember. She doesn't get angry over stupid stuff, she gets angry if you give in to authorities, if you get caught stealing, or if you get caught tresspassing. You don't get negative rapport FOR STEALING OR ENTERING TRESPASS AREAS, WHICH WOULD ELIMINATE THE MECHANIC, you only get "berated" for DOING IT WRONG. This is how EVERY companion should be.
I get isobel is al righteous and what not, but again, no blade of Woe, no Dark Brotherhood, eliminating an entire faction out of your gameplay...What, are we crazy? Why would I use a companion that eliminates content for me?

You see, that's where the rage for these companions come; They eliminate mechanics from your gameplay with their poorly planned raport.

spartaxoxo

IDK/IDC

Kurague wrote: »

You see, that's where the rage for these companions come; They eliminate mechanics from your gameplay with their poorly planned raport.

If that's all it was to it, people would hate Isobel and Bastian equally and they do not. There is also the cultural lense in which they view these characters. As well, as the sense of immersion a player has. But Bastian doesn't like murder because he thinks it's wrong. And the player feels judged as a result. Isobel doesn't like it because knights aren't supposed to, so she doesn't interfere with anyone's headcanon that their character is the good guy hero.

Also none of the companions eliminate gameplay. The rapport they lose is triflingly easy to restore. And you can always stow them in activities they are not compatible with. It's not like you need a companion to go on a murder spree. They don't add anything to that activity and have a cooldown on rapport loss.

To say characters shouldn't react believably in an RPG, or it's poor design just doesn't make sense to me either.

Syldras

Mirri

SilverBride wrote: »

If it was the actual companion that fights along side us and interacts with us I would personally find it disturbing to put them in tortuous situations. But the houseguest versions of our companions are nothing more than furnishings

They still talk and walk around, so I personally don't see a big difference, but people may view that differently. The big question really is why people even get the idea to put them in a torture room. It seems to be common with companions, but there aren't masses of players who, for example, build pyres and burn mammoths on them or throw sep vipers inside boiling soup kettles. Well, of course there's no reason for that, too, but why would you do that to companions?

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

So far it seems Isobel gets less reactions about being a "goody two shoes" and too high and moral, and more gets reactions about her appearace. Don't know what I find worse.

The usual tendency of judging women by their appearance.

Kurague wrote: »

A more logically made companion; Ember. She doesn't get angry over stupid stuff, she gets angry if you give in to authorities, if you get caught stealing, or if you get caught tresspassing. You don't get negative rapport FOR STEALING OR ENTERING TRESPASS AREAS, WHICH WOULD ELIMINATE THE MECHANIC, you only get "berated" for DOING IT WRONG. This is how EVERY companion should be.

Why would there even be a need for different companions if they're all the same? Also, ZOS went the roleplaying way and created them as individuals with personal likes and dislikes, and as credible citizens of Tamriel, it's logical most would despise criminal acts, especially murder.

Kurague

Ember

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Kurague wrote: »

You see, that's where the rage for these companions come; They eliminate mechanics from your gameplay with their poorly planned raport.

If that's all it was to it, people would hate Isobel and Bastian equally and they do not. There is also the cultural lense in which they view these characters. As well, as the sense of immersion a player has. But Bastian doesn't like murder because he thinks it's wrong. And the player feels judged as a result. Isobel doesn't like it because knights aren't supposed to, so she doesn't interfere with anyone's headcanon that their character is the good guy hero.

Also none of the companions eliminate gameplay. The rapport they lose is triflingly easy to restore. And you can always stow them in activities they are not compatible with. It's not like you need a companion to go on a murder spree. They don't add anything to that activity and have a cooldown on rapport loss.

To say characters shouldn't react believably in an RPG, or it's poor design just doesn't make sense to me either.

What I say it's bad design is the fact that, yes, it does remove mechanics if you want to use that companion. Period.
Am I gonna store Mirri back EVERY time I find a butterfly? Yeah, not happening, that's annoying design for no reason, and thus it's bad.

Act believably? If any character or NPC were to act believably in this game we would be dead dead or imprisoned permanently. I just murdered a whole town worth of citizens, but I pay you, what, 30k gold, and just walk it off, and you never suspect me ever again when a murder spree happens somewhere.

The characters can have likes and dislikes, but these likes and dislikes should never prevent you from doing any activities in game.

Mirri, if she was an actual, believable-acting character:
-Sees you murder someone with the blade of woe
-"Hey mate, I don't like you doing that"
-Sees you do it again
-"You might be my friend but I really don't want to relate with someone doing such distasteful activities, please stop"
-Sees you do it again, and turn in a contract to the Dark Brotherhood
-"Goodbye, see you in never."

Oh, hey Mirri, how about we go give Lyranth an sweet kiss goodnight? She's skulking around my house but that's fine with you, right? She's only a Daedra, you know, one of those people who almost murdered all your friends and little bro, but I bet you're not gonna say anything about her. MMH?

Yeah, no.

MasterSpatula

Isobel

Bastian is a stick in the mud.

Mirri seems alright compared to Bastian, but I'd pretty much had it up to here with all the passive aggressive "I'm still here (thanks for asking)" comments and the nagging me about killing bugs that aren't even dead yet.

Honestly, Ember and Isobel are both delights. ZOS really seems to have learned from mistakes here.

Syldras

Mirri

Kurague wrote: »

Oh, hey Mirri, how about we go give Lyranth an sweet kiss goodnight? She's skulking around my house but that's fine with you, right? She's only a Daedra, you know, one of those people who almost murdered all your friends and little bro, but I bet you're not gonna say anything about her. MMH?

She probably would be pleased as she's quite interested in Daedra research.

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Bastian is a stick in the mud.
Mirri seems alright compared to Bastian, but I'd pretty much had it up to here with all the passive aggressive "I'm still here (thanks for asking)" comments and the nagging me about killing bugs that aren't even dead yet.
Honestly, Ember and Isobel are both delights. ZOS really seems to have learned from mistakes here.

What makes the big difference between Bastian and Isobel? Just wondering.

Kurague

Ember

Syldras wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

If it was the actual companion that fights along side us and interacts with us I would personally find it disturbing to put them in tortuous situations. But the houseguest versions of our companions are nothing more than furnishings

They still talk and walk around, so I personally don't see a big difference, but people may view that differently. The big question really is why people even get the idea to put them in a torture room. It seems to be common with companions, but there aren't masses of players who, for example, build pyres and burn mammoths on them or throw sep vipers inside boiling soup kettles. Well, of course there's no reason for that, too, but why would you do that to companions?

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

So far it seems Isobel gets less reactions about being a "goody two shoes" and too high and moral, and more gets reactions about her appearace. Don't know what I find worse.

The usual tendency of judging women by their appearance.

Kurague wrote: »

A more logically made companion; Ember. She doesn't get angry over stupid stuff, she gets angry if you give in to authorities, if you get caught stealing, or if you get caught tresspassing. You don't get negative rapport FOR STEALING OR ENTERING TRESPASS AREAS, WHICH WOULD ELIMINATE THE MECHANIC, you only get "berated" for DOING IT WRONG. This is how EVERY companion should be.

Why would there even be a need for different companions if they're all the same? Also, ZOS went the roleplaying way and created them as individuals with personal likes and dislikes, and as credible citizens of Tamriel, it's logical most would despise criminal acts, especially murder.

I didn't read your comment since I was writing my answer.

Pseudo realism sucks, specially when you make it look like it's realistic but then show great flaws in that design.

Most despise criminal acts? Whatever would you mean with that? Like, killing people like we do in the wild 99% of the day? Excuse me but please stop trying to impose your modern day judgement on medieval characters. I get they might dislike innocent murder, but either you go all out with your design or you make it comfy for people.

If they were to make a well planned "Friend companions" system, they would have to generate random characters for that, each with their likes and dislikes, and if you do something "extremely dislikable" to this character, they might leave FOREVER if you do it repeatedly, so you'd have to find another companion. Now this would be a decent system, since they would have actual realistic traits, and if you break their trust repeatedly they actually leave and never look back, just like, well, real, normal people.

Companions have different abilities and can have different likes and dislikes, but Mirri has really well planed dislikes, she just won't randomly get angry cause you picked up a flower, that's ridiculous. She gets angry WHEN YOU DO SOMETHING "IN HER LINE" WRONG, just like others could dislike when you do stuff wrong on their part. For example, Isobel could get angry when you're not chivalrous in conversations(Make use of Intimidate in a "Ruffian" way, trick people...), and a good example for Mirri would be something of the likes of leaving Daedra ruins without completing objetives from them.(Killing the boss, etc)

PS: I just found out how to edit comments. Real sorry for the double post!

Syldras

Mirri

Kurague wrote: »

Excuse me but please stop trying to impose your modern day judgement on medieval characters.

Excuse me, but as a historian I might know a bit about the morals and world view people had in medieval times. Although I'm not sure if it even matters here, as this is not medieval Europe but Tamriel and all Tamrielic cultures have their own religions and traditions that show very clearly in lore. Murdering innocent citizens ist definitively not condoned by any of the major religions of Tamriel (we're talking about commoners within cities, not bandits in the wilderness).

I agree with you though that companions should leave for good if you do something the absolutely despise repeatedly.

Kurague

Ember

Syldras wrote: »

Kurague wrote: »

Excuse me but please stop trying to impose your modern day judgement on medieval characters.

Excuse me, but as a historian I might know a bit about the morals and world view people had in medieval times. Although I'm not sure if it even matters here, as this is not medieval Europe but Tamriel and all Tamrielic cultures have their own religions and traditions that show very clearly in lore. Murdering innocent citizens ist definitively not condoned by any of the major religions of Tamriel (we're talking about commoners within cities, not bandits in the wilderness).

I agree with you though that companions should leave for good if you do something the absolutely despise repeatedly.

You said Murder, nor murder of innocents. I did mention lower that yes, murdering innocents might pose a challenging concept to some people even in the medieval era(Even if it's a different type of medieval era, if anything, Tamriel is even WORSE than the normal medieval times. More dangerous, there's much more crime everywhere, and crimes aren't as pety as normal crimes...Not to mention the attempts at world ending being more than I can count with my hands.)

You know who I would have loved as a companion? Lyris Titanborn, sadly that's not possible, but she was cool and a truly likeable character.

But yeah, like some others say, for medieval ages, considering they're people who, well, kill other people constantly, they are too much on the "Goody two-shoes" side. You have to remember, this is not commoner people we are talking about, we are talking about a Dunmer explorer who kills cultists and Daedra on a daily basis(Suposedly), a Diabolic CAT-jiit lady that likes everything, a guy who's as boring as a broken stick that doesn't like cheese, and a Knight that has a real cool and noble personality. 3 out of 4 literal murderers of mases both human, animal and supernatural don't like it when you kill an innocent, fine, but we need an evil follower. A Daedra or something like that.(But then I'm sure they will not like you not killing people when you can and I'm gonna get real pissed over the Rapport system)

Syldras

Mirri

Kurague wrote: »

You said Murder, nor murder of innocents.

Maybe we have a different definition of murder; I didn't mean the act of killing in general, but the criminal offense. Killing a criminal like a bandit, especially if there's a bounty on their head, wouldn't be considered murder.

Kurague wrote: »

we are talking about a Dunmer explorer who kills cultists and Daedra on a daily basis(Suposedly), (...) 3 out of 4 literal murderers of mases both human, animal and supernatural

She's a relic hunter, but that doesn't necessarily mean slaughtering other living beings every day. She even says "I never used to fight this much, until I met you." and "I think I'm getting good at this. I probably shouldn't be proud of that." after combat.

Kurague

Ember

Syldras wrote: »

Maybe we have a different definition of murder; I didn't mean the act of killing in general, but the criminal offense. Killing a criminal like a bandit, especially if there's a bounty on their head, wouldn't be considered murder.

If that's what you meant we're on the same page, but the system could've been handled differently.

Syldras wrote: »

She's a relic hunter, but that doesn't necessarily mean slaughtering other living beings every day. She even says "I never used to fight this much, until I met you." and "I think I'm getting good at this. I probably shouldn't be proud of that." after combat.

True, but she still was "trigger-happy" when she met you...And those were humanoids mostly.

Syldras

Mirri

Kurague wrote: »

True, but she still was "trigger-happy" when she met you...And those were humanoids mostly.

Well, I'd be too, if someone kidnapped my brother (if I had one, that is).