"PVP" and "Cyrodiil" Gets you Banned on Twitch

_Zathras_

BlossomDead wrote: »

I can back up the claims on super heavy handed censorship - this is not moderation anymore. I think my forum account has received a final warning. And if I am to look at the reported posts that were sent to me I always burst out laughing - it's just ridiculous.

^^ This is one of the prime reasons why I have left the game. Something has..shifted..and I don't like it.

There is a world of difference between violating the ToS and having your comment edited, and a mod outright deleting a comment/thread because they don't want to see it.

The former is moderation.

The latter is censorship.

In the last 2 months, the latter has ramped up into the norm. It is no longer a "Hey, did that happen?" moment. Now everyone is noticing, and it is not a good look.

Of course, my thoughts are that unless there are many rogue moderators with twitchy fingers (unlikely), they are being instructed/greenlit to censor certain topic comments (likely). The frequency certainly indicates their intent.

StevieKingslayer

@ZOS_Kevin
People dont feel safe talking on your forums, that's probably an issue tbh.
I definitely dont. I've been modded for something very very silly. Your mods also don't communicate at all. Who even are half of these people.

SilverBride

I agree with @FeedbackOnly that bans should be replaced by suspensions that could increase in duration with repeated infractions. When one offhand comment can put a poster's ability to participate in forum discussions in permanent jeopardy, something is wrong. Posters should be able to discuss topics they feel strongly about without constant fear of a permaban. Permabans should only be used in very extreme circumstances.

FeedbackOnly

joerginger wrote: »

nightstrike wrote: »

blktauna wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Also look at people abusing the report system

I got a 3 day ban for literally saying "you must be a joy to work with" which was apparently reported as harassment. Review by an adult human would have shown how ridiculous that was.

I got a warning for saying "it's a feature" in response to a someone asking about why something didn't work the way they expected. I lost the appeal. I asked for management escalation, and lost that, too.

Technically, they cited two other statements that I made, but those other two were IMO tamer and less tongue-in-cheek. They were just longer.

Interesting. Exactly the same thing happened to me. As I wrote earlier, the slightest joke is regarded as "bashing" these days. My appeal for management escalation was completely ignored - of course.

It's the baiting rule that gets abused in reports. Some of it is fair game mind you, but we should be able to express discontent with another posters ideals

OutLaw_Nynx

Gaeliannas wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

However, please remember that our mods are human at the end of the day and work hard to ensure the forum is a welcoming and approachable space for all players. If there is an issue with how anyone has been moderated, please make sure to place a ticket to challenge the moderation. For added measure, please feel free to PM me and I can get that number over to our customer service team for additional context.

When there is room for open dialogue, we're happy to have it. I hope this provides some context for forum moderation as well.

So glad to have someone like Kevin in the company, an adult in the room with empathy and tact willing to listen to us and even help people out. I don't envy him tho, proverbial trigger happy peeps below him, company hacks above him, and the public to deal with. But he's doing a fine job of it and sounds like things will get better from here and that's really all we can ask.

it's kind of a tough situation for zos...due to the complexity of the game, eso attracts some pretty sharp people...

sharp folks are genuinely pretty good at figuring out: "what's wrong with this picture"...

granted, some of us "smart" folks can get a little feisty from our competitive nature or emotional committment to 7 year old toons...

still, a much better job (in terms of both game performance and communication) must be achieved...

Suspension over bans, give them a week or month to cool their heads. Many people since the beginning are just gone.

I concerned especially that we lose a lot of valuable reports during pts sessions. I heard people they stopped reporting bugs because of this.

^This

I know a group of folks that recently found a bug in a a very old trial on VetHM. But due to a previous group being banned over reporting a bug they found, they decided to not report it and never use the strategy that caused it again. These are a straight up group, working hard on progression and found it completely by accident, but in fear of repercussions for finding and reporting a glitch. How has it gotten so bad that it is assumed those finding bugs, were exploiting on purpose?

In almost any other game, a GM would have shown up in game, had them reproduce it, thanked them for being awesome customers, and would have passed detailed notes to the dev team to enable them to fix it.

When MoL first came out, you could glitch past the fences. I created a video for support and sent it into them. I stressed over and over to support to please make a note on my profile that I was NOT exploiting or cheating. I didn’t pick up any gear or anything. I wasn’t met with any in game suspension, but I was very anxious of being punished for showing them how to do it.

FeedbackOnly

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Gaeliannas wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

However, please remember that our mods are human at the end of the day and work hard to ensure the forum is a welcoming and approachable space for all players. If there is an issue with how anyone has been moderated, please make sure to place a ticket to challenge the moderation. For added measure, please feel free to PM me and I can get that number over to our customer service team for additional context.

When there is room for open dialogue, we're happy to have it. I hope this provides some context for forum moderation as well.

So glad to have someone like Kevin in the company, an adult in the room with empathy and tact willing to listen to us and even help people out. I don't envy him tho, proverbial trigger happy peeps below him, company hacks above him, and the public to deal with. But he's doing a fine job of it and sounds like things will get better from here and that's really all we can ask.

it's kind of a tough situation for zos...due to the complexity of the game, eso attracts some pretty sharp people...

sharp folks are genuinely pretty good at figuring out: "what's wrong with this picture"...

granted, some of us "smart" folks can get a little feisty from our competitive nature or emotional committment to 7 year old toons...

still, a much better job (in terms of both game performance and communication) must be achieved...

Suspension over bans, give them a week or month to cool their heads. Many people since the beginning are just gone.

I concerned especially that we lose a lot of valuable reports during pts sessions. I heard people they stopped reporting bugs because of this.

^This

I know a group of folks that recently found a bug in a a very old trial on VetHM. But due to a previous group being banned over reporting a bug they found, they decided to not report it and never use the strategy that caused it again. These are a straight up group, working hard on progression and found it completely by accident, but in fear of repercussions for finding and reporting a glitch. How has it gotten so bad that it is assumed those finding bugs, were exploiting on purpose?

In almost any other game, a GM would have shown up in game, had them reproduce it, thanked them for being awesome customers, and would have passed detailed notes to the dev team to enable them to fix it.

When MoL first came out, you could glitch past the fences. I created a video for support and sent it into them. I stressed over and over to support to please make a note on my profile that I was NOT exploiting or cheating. I didn’t pick up any gear or anything. I wasn’t met with any in game suspension, but I was very anxious of being punished for showing them how to do it.

It was better back then.

I reported vhrc wall exploit to attack both bosses, vhrc door for top boss, vmol add cheat, vaso add exploit, vhrc boss attacking backwards the third time on launch day of a patch, imperial city XP exploit, vBH double drops

The thing is I obviously wasn't the first one to hear, see or do things, but for the most part I was the first.to report some exploits that existed for years

Sometimes I wonder what happens when I am gone. It shouldn't be a problem, but the forums for many are a way to report these things. But then here we are with most people sitting back in fear and lack of trust.

Please understand we love the game, but as far I know all us are humans. We make mistakes, we fight, but we also love the game together, but it's a problem if we don't trust you and fear you.

blue_peaceful_Manticore

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin
People dont feel safe talking on your forums, that's probably an issue tbh.
I definitely dont. I've been modded for something very very silly. Your mods also don't communicate at all. Who even are half of these people.

How can people feel safe in ESO forum?
My wife ask "Where can i buy ESO without morrowind" She got Permanent ban. lol Only because of this!? Yes. ONLY because she ask "Where can i buy ESO without morrowind" and she got permanent banned.

FeedbackOnly

EnKor wrote: »

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin
People dont feel safe talking on your forums, that's probably an issue tbh.
I definitely dont. I've been modded for something very very silly. Your mods also don't communicate at all. Who even are half of these people.

How can people feel safe in ESO forum?
My wife ask "Where can i buy ESO without morrowind" She got Permanent ban. lol Only because of this!? Yes. ONLY because she ask "Where can i buy ESO without morrowind" and she got permanent banned.

It would be nice if they reviewed the appeals or looked at the situation of the past.

Honestly I wonder will I be here tomorrow. My page view went up...has zos come to ban me? This isn't exaggerating, but a real fear I live with from the first comment on this thread I made

I comment for those who can't comment anymore. I comment because I love this game so much and hurts me to see others sad on about the game especially something like this

For two years the bans have accelerated. Most long time names are just gone, while others are hiding. Some of these people deserve to be welcomed back

SilverBride

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

It's the baiting rule that gets abused in reports. Some of it is fair game mind you, but we should be able to express discontent with another posters ideals

We can express discontent with another poster's views but not with the poster themselves. This is where it turns into flaming and baiting. Only address the topic.

This isn't clear to a lot of posters and should be explained in a warning. Let the poster know how their particular post was seen as a violation and give them a chance to learn from it.

Mythgard1967

SilverBride wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

It's the baiting rule that gets abused in reports. Some of it is fair game mind you, but we should be able to express discontent with another posters ideals

We can express discontent with another poster's views but not with the poster themselves. This is where it turns into flaming and baiting. Only address the topic.

This isn't clear to a lot of posters and should be explained in a warning. Let the poster know how their particular post was seen as a violation and give them a chance to learn from it.

This is very true.....as soon as it gets personal, it crosses the line.

"I don't agree with you for these reasons" is much different from "I don't see how anyone with a brain can ask for that?" or "I don't believe anyone would want that thing"...implying that only someone who is stupid would want that thing.

I see a lot of the latter and then see folks get upset for being moderated for just asking "how someone could ask for that"...when what they really did was say "anyone who asks for this is a complete moron" in the guise of asking an innocent question.

Passive Aggressive is hard to moderate...but I agree....it should be explained in the warning.

FeedbackOnly

SilverBride wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

It's the baiting rule that gets abused in reports. Some of it is fair game mind you, but we should be able to express discontent with another posters ideals

We can express discontent with another poster's views but not with the poster themselves. This is where it turns into flaming and baiting. Only address the topic.

This isn't clear to a lot of posters and should be explained in a warning. Let the poster know how their particular post was seen as a violation and give them a chance to learn from it.

I will disagree with you here, but the point is abuse of reporting happened and consequences were way to far.

I agree that it's not fair that mods don't most of time explain reasoning.

ArchMikem

Ankael07 wrote: »

Theres no problem in Cyrodiil

Varana

As for the stream, I'm mildly curious how the next one will go, and whether the ESO community is as "grown-up" as some people may believe. Or whether there will be people seeing "Kevin said posting about PvP is okay", and come to the conclusion to spam away.
In the end, there is very little point to talk about Cyrodiil performance in a PR stream that has nothing to do with PvP at all. They won't suddenly produce PvP content just because some people spam their chat. They won't suddenly talk about PvP (honestly) in a stream unless it has been carefully worded, vetted by the higher-ups, and run through their PR departments.

FeedbackOnly

Mythgard1967 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

It's the baiting rule that gets abused in reports. Some of it is fair game mind you, but we should be able to express discontent with another posters ideals

We can express discontent with another poster's views but not with the poster themselves. This is where it turns into flaming and baiting. Only address the topic.

This isn't clear to a lot of posters and should be explained in a warning. Let the poster know how their particular post was seen as a violation and give them a chance to learn from it.

This is very true.....as soon as it gets personal, it crosses the line.

"I don't agree with you for these reasons" is much different from "I don't see how anyone with a brain can ask for that?" or "I don't believe anyone would want that thing"...implying that only someone who is stupid would want that thing.

I see a lot of the latter and then see folks get upset for being moderated for just asking "how someone could ask for that"...when what they really did was say "anyone who asks for this is a complete moron" in the guise of asking an innocent question.

Passive Aggressive is hard to moderate...but I agree....it should be explained in the warning.

I got moderate once for calling someone a stick in the mud. For repeating attacking people and implying that people who don't agree with them are bad people. They made themselves the victim.

The entire thread got moderated often for a good week because we didn't agree with them.

See people get passive aggressive as a result of implying things.

I won't argue that either was right, but at some point it's not fair if entire thread is getting overly moderated for those who oppose the point of view.

At that point when a lot of reports come in for same thread then it should be closed as it was both parties. Also if same person is reporting in same thread then thread should be looked at not the people.

My point is the reporter can be the aggressor too.

EozZoe1989

well then. maybe they are thinking doing somthing in the future or... they had enough so they banning people for being moaning a holes lol

FeedbackOnly

Varana wrote: »

As for the stream, I'm mildly curious how the next one will go, and whether the ESO community is as "grown-up" as some people may believe. Or whether there will be people seeing "Kevin said posting about PvP is okay", and come to the conclusion to spam away.
In the end, there is very little point to talk about Cyrodiil performance in a PR stream that has nothing to do with PvP at all. They won't suddenly produce PvP content just because some people spam their chat. They won't suddenly talk about PvP (honestly) in a stream unless it has been carefully worded, vetted by the higher-ups, and run through their PR departments.

Discord has a feature to put chats on cool down. Where you can only make a comment every 5 mins or how often it's set to.

I wonder if twitch has this? This would easily resolve the problem zos actually has which is spam

jaws343

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

As for the stream, I'm mildly curious how the next one will go, and whether the ESO community is as "grown-up" as some people may believe. Or whether there will be people seeing "Kevin said posting about PvP is okay", and come to the conclusion to spam away.
In the end, there is very little point to talk about Cyrodiil performance in a PR stream that has nothing to do with PvP at all. They won't suddenly produce PvP content just because some people spam their chat. They won't suddenly talk about PvP (honestly) in a stream unless it has been carefully worded, vetted by the higher-ups, and run through their PR departments.

Discord has a feature to put chats on cool down. Where you can only make a comment every 5 mins or how often it's set to.

I wonder if twitch has this? This would easily resolve the problem zos actually has which is spam

That would also solve the problem where the chat moves by so fast as to be completely incomprehensible to begin with.

Mythgard1967

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Mythgard1967 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

It's the baiting rule that gets abused in reports. Some of it is fair game mind you, but we should be able to express discontent with another posters ideals

We can express discontent with another poster's views but not with the poster themselves. This is where it turns into flaming and baiting. Only address the topic.

This isn't clear to a lot of posters and should be explained in a warning. Let the poster know how their particular post was seen as a violation and give them a chance to learn from it.

This is very true.....as soon as it gets personal, it crosses the line.

"I don't agree with you for these reasons" is much different from "I don't see how anyone with a brain can ask for that?" or "I don't believe anyone would want that thing"...implying that only someone who is stupid would want that thing.

I see a lot of the latter and then see folks get upset for being moderated for just asking "how someone could ask for that"...when what they really did was say "anyone who asks for this is a complete moron" in the guise of asking an innocent question.

Passive Aggressive is hard to moderate...but I agree....it should be explained in the warning.

I got moderate once for calling someone a stick in the mud. For repeating attacking people and implying that people who don't agree with them are bad people. They made themselves the victim.

The entire thread got moderated often for a good week because we didn't agree with them.

See people get passive aggressive as a result of implying things.

I won't argue that either was right, but at some point it's not fair if entire thread is getting overly moderated for those who oppose the point of view.

At that point when a lot of reports come in for same thread then it should be closed as it was both parties. Also if same person is reporting in same thread then thread should be looked at not the people.

My point is the reporter can be the aggressor too.

Oh I agree there...and that is a big reason why I say moderating passive aggressive is hard. For the record....if someone says "everyone who agrees with this is an idiot" in that format...my response is "I like it and that doesnt make me an idiot, thank you very much (and the thank you very much is likely to get moderated for tone...which is....uh....overreaching)..... and I explain why"...I would NOT resort to "reporting". I wouldnt even resort to reporting if someone directly said "Mythgard, you are an idiot". I would more likely respond "takes one to know one".

BUT......people should be aware when they resort to calling everyone who doesnt agree with them names; even by implication, they might expect moderation......even if it was provoked.

FeedbackOnly

Mythgard1967 wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Mythgard1967 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

It's the baiting rule that gets abused in reports. Some of it is fair game mind you, but we should be able to express discontent with another posters ideals

We can express discontent with another poster's views but not with the poster themselves. This is where it turns into flaming and baiting. Only address the topic.

This isn't clear to a lot of posters and should be explained in a warning. Let the poster know how their particular post was seen as a violation and give them a chance to learn from it.

This is very true.....as soon as it gets personal, it crosses the line.

"I don't agree with you for these reasons" is much different from "I don't see how anyone with a brain can ask for that?" or "I don't believe anyone would want that thing"...implying that only someone who is stupid would want that thing.

I see a lot of the latter and then see folks get upset for being moderated for just asking "how someone could ask for that"...when what they really did was say "anyone who asks for this is a complete moron" in the guise of asking an innocent question.

Passive Aggressive is hard to moderate...but I agree....it should be explained in the warning.

I got moderate once for calling someone a stick in the mud. For repeating attacking people and implying that people who don't agree with them are bad people. They made themselves the victim.

The entire thread got moderated often for a good week because we didn't agree with them.

See people get passive aggressive as a result of implying things.

I won't argue that either was right, but at some point it's not fair if entire thread is getting overly moderated for those who oppose the point of view.

At that point when a lot of reports come in for same thread then it should be closed as it was both parties. Also if same person is reporting in same thread then thread should be looked at not the people.

My point is the reporter can be the aggressor too.

Oh I agree there...and that is a big reason why I say moderating passive aggressive is hard. For the record....if someone says "everyone who agrees with this is an idiot" in that format...my response is "I like it and that doesnt make me an idiot, thank you very much (and the thank you very much is likely to get moderated for tone...which is....uh....overreaching)..... and I explain why"...I would NOT resort to "reporting". I wouldnt even resort to reporting if someone directly said "Mythgard, you are an idiot". I would more likely respond "takes one to know one".

BUT......people should be aware when they resort to calling everyone who doesnt agree with them names; even by implication, they might expect moderation......even if it was provoked.

My point was it's always not direct. Like anywhere else I would not get moderated for calling someone a stick in the mud.

My point in my case the thread poster for days was calling people indirectly names and trolls for not enjoying what they did.

There's a particular thread poster in question actually does this very often. I even seen them asking why they can't report baiting better.


I personally think they are abusing the reporting system. If people are Overally reporting at some point a flag should be triggered for review.

Tldr: I think report system gets abused

SammyKhajit

Mythgard1967 wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Mythgard1967 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

It's the baiting rule that gets abused in reports. Some of it is fair game mind you, but we should be able to express discontent with another posters ideals

We can express discontent with another poster's views but not with the poster themselves. This is where it turns into flaming and baiting. Only address the topic.

This isn't clear to a lot of posters and should be explained in a warning. Let the poster know how their particular post was seen as a violation and give them a chance to learn from it.

This is very true.....as soon as it gets personal, it crosses the line.

"I don't agree with you for these reasons" is much different from "I don't see how anyone with a brain can ask for that?" or "I don't believe anyone would want that thing"...implying that only someone who is stupid would want that thing.

I see a lot of the latter and then see folks get upset for being moderated for just asking "how someone could ask for that"...when what they really did was say "anyone who asks for this is a complete moron" in the guise of asking an innocent question.

Passive Aggressive is hard to moderate...but I agree....it should be explained in the warning.

I got moderate once for calling someone a stick in the mud. For repeating attacking people and implying that people who don't agree with them are bad people. They made themselves the victim.

The entire thread got moderated often for a good week because we didn't agree with them.

See people get passive aggressive as a result of implying things.

I won't argue that either was right, but at some point it's not fair if entire thread is getting overly moderated for those who oppose the point of view.

At that point when a lot of reports come in for same thread then it should be closed as it was both parties. Also if same person is reporting in same thread then thread should be looked at not the people.

My point is the reporter can be the aggressor too.

Oh I agree there...and that is a big reason why I say moderating passive aggressive is hard. For the record....if someone says "everyone who agrees with this is an idiot" in that format...my response is "I like it and that doesnt make me an idiot, thank you very much (and the thank you very much is likely to get moderated for tone...which is....uh....overreaching)..... and I explain why"...I would NOT resort to "reporting". I wouldnt even resort to reporting if someone directly said "Mythgard, you are an idiot". I would more likely respond "takes one to know one".

BUT......people should be aware when they resort to calling everyone who doesnt agree with them names; even by implication, they might expect moderation......even if it was provoked.

The test here is, would you say such a thing if it’s a face to face context and not an online forum? Often times Sammy pauses and thinks about it (also cleans his furs) if a particular topic is very heated. Doesn’t always work, but Sammy tries.

People have feelings and it’s also the player’s responsibility to keep forums safe for other players.

Anyhow, back to the topic. It’d be very good if ZOS provides an update soon on the PVP improvement. This one suspects the typing of pvp in Twitch chats is because they want an update, and don’t feel like they’re getting one. Rather than delete the texts, it’s better to address the cause.

Agenericname

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@spartaxoxo, so we'll touch on this also. First, please feel free to PM me your specific example. Happy to review and discuss. Also, that is something anyone on the forum can do. We can chat about an issue and we can always talk to customer service to reevaluate actions as needed.

Moderation as you probably can guess isn't an exact science. Actions are taken based on the circumstances of the current situation and the history of those involved. We won't always get that right for a variety of reason. But we will continue to strive to get better and address situations as they occur. What should be noted here is in those back and forth conversations that get actioned, often times those escalate because either the parties start to include personal attacks or one of the parties has reported the other and a mod needs to figure out context by reading through the interactions and make a call based on our community guidelines. So it's a bit of a different ball game compared to live stream moderation.

However, please remember that our mods are human at the end of the day and work hard to ensure the forum is a welcoming and approachable space for all players. If there is an issue with how anyone has been moderated, please make sure to place a ticket to challenge the moderation. For added measure, please feel free to PM me and I can get that number over to our customer service team for additional context.

When there is room for open dialogue, we're happy to have it. I hope this provides some context for forum moderation as well.

Speaking specifically about the forums, why cant the moderators themselves give reason why an action was taken in the first place? If they need to read through the conversation and make a call based on what they read, then they should be able to articulate that instead of simply posting a link to the TOS.

I appreciate the dialogue, really, but I feel like using this route to find out why I or anyone else received the moderation in the first place is a bit over the top. If "approachable" is the goal, then I would suggest having the communication to the player include "why" so that they know where they crossed the line so that they know what to avoid in further interactions.

FeedbackOnly

Agenericname wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@spartaxoxo, so we'll touch on this also. First, please feel free to PM me your specific example. Happy to review and discuss. Also, that is something anyone on the forum can do. We can chat about an issue and we can always talk to customer service to reevaluate actions as needed.

Moderation as you probably can guess isn't an exact science. Actions are taken based on the circumstances of the current situation and the history of those involved. We won't always get that right for a variety of reason. But we will continue to strive to get better and address situations as they occur. What should be noted here is in those back and forth conversations that get actioned, often times those escalate because either the parties start to include personal attacks or one of the parties has reported the other and a mod needs to figure out context by reading through the interactions and make a call based on our community guidelines. So it's a bit of a different ball game compared to live stream moderation.

However, please remember that our mods are human at the end of the day and work hard to ensure the forum is a welcoming and approachable space for all players. If there is an issue with how anyone has been moderated, please make sure to place a ticket to challenge the moderation. For added measure, please feel free to PM me and I can get that number over to our customer service team for additional context.

When there is room for open dialogue, we're happy to have it. I hope this provides some context for forum moderation as well.

Speaking specifically about the forums, why cant the moderators themselves give reason why an action was taken in the first place? If they need to read through the conversation and make a call based on what they read, then they should be able to articulate that instead of simply posting a link to the TOS.

I appreciate the dialogue, really, but I feel like using this route to find out why I or anyone else received the moderation in the first place is a bit over the top. If "approachable" is the goal, then I would suggest having the communication to the player include "why" so that they know where they crossed the line so that they know what to avoid in further interactions.

Sometimes they do actually. It's just that the biggest issue is consistency.

Moderation on forums had a lot of problems

* Overall people biggest complaints are moderation is too heavy

* Censorship is too far and without letting people know

* The appeal system not working

* Banning discussion seems in agreement that should only be very worst offenders and suspension should be used more often even for repeat offenders.

* Such discussion on reasoning. People feel some moderation just don't make sense like "Morrowind question"


My personal complaints is abuse of reporting system

@ZOS_Kevin current summary of discussion

🌻 Others tell me if I am wrong or missed something

FeedbackOnly

New issue on moderation as...this might be our only chance to talk about it

New patch issues get moved out of general or closed and redirected to somewhat that absolutely doesn't relate

Like group finder and login issues are very very different

To resolve this issue make a main sticky thread to talk about patch day issues that happen while marking what is being look at or needs more information

Edit:

I

FeedbackOnly

Follow up instead of editing

I see people complain in discord say that zos is trying to hid patch day bugs in unused sub forum sections

SilverBride

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

It's the baiting rule that gets abused in reports. Some of it is fair game mind you, but we should be able to express discontent with another posters ideals

We can express discontent with another poster's views but not with the poster themselves. This is where it turns into flaming and baiting. Only address the topic.

This isn't clear to a lot of posters and should be explained in a warning. Let the poster know how their particular post was seen as a violation and give them a chance to learn from it.

I will disagree with you here, but the point is abuse of reporting happened and consequences were way to far.

I agree that it's not fair that mods don't most of time explain reasoning.

This isn't my personal opinion that I feel others should follow. It is in the community rules pinned at the top of the thread under Flaming and it seems to get a lot of posters in hot water.

That's why I think posters should just be given a warning with a clear explanation of what the rule is, and a chance to correct that in the future.

FeedbackOnly

SilverBride wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

It's the baiting rule that gets abused in reports. Some of it is fair game mind you, but we should be able to express discontent with another posters ideals

We can express discontent with another poster's views but not with the poster themselves. This is where it turns into flaming and baiting. Only address the topic.

This isn't clear to a lot of posters and should be explained in a warning. Let the poster know how their particular post was seen as a violation and give them a chance to learn from it.

I will disagree with you here, but the point is abuse of reporting happened and consequences were way to far.

I agree that it's not fair that mods don't most of time explain reasoning.

This isn't my personal opinion that I feel others should follow. It is in the community rules pinned at the top of the thread under Flaming and it seems to get a lot of posters in hot water.

That's why I think posters should just be given a warning with a clear explanation of what the rule is, and a chance to correct that in the future.

I expressed that if people over report on one thread that thread should be closed instead as topic probably is toxic for aggressor and reporter

There's clear records of that happening too from moderation. So my suggestion too follows standards.

I expressed this point as way to counter people who tend to Overally report.

If people need to report 10 times in 1 thread then something is wrong with reporter themselves too unless they are famous and are hated for nothing related to topic.

Overall, I think abuse of reporting system should be looked at. That is my intention here as people didn't just disappear from forums because of mods but people who reported them

It's the players too who are fault in current state of forums

blktauna

SammyKhajit wrote: »

Anyhow, back to the topic. It’d be very good if ZOS provides an update soon on the PVP improvement. This one suspects the typing of pvp in Twitch chats is because they want an update, and don’t feel like they’re getting on. Rather than delete the texts, it’s better to address the cause.

That is exactly the reason. No one feels they are being heard, or acknowledged, so instead of shrieking into an empty room, players try to find an occupied one to maybe get hold of someone who will give an answer.

a simple "still nothing try later" would at least get most of the anger off. Its escalating from the sheer lack of acknowledgement that there's any issue at all.

SimonThesis

I will say moderation and communication in my experience has gotten much better since Kevin took the reins, besides the recent issue. When others ran the forums before him it was much much worse. There is for sure much work still to do, but it sounds like things are getting better.

I do want to remind people, Kevin, the Forum manager said if you ever have an issue with how you've been moderated to PM him and he'll take a look and you can challenge it through customer support and he will even help you. Agreed tho, Customer support is on par with your nationwide cable companies, but that's not the fault of anyone managing the forums. It typically takes weeks to get a response from customer support even on simple things. And they give responses like they've never even played the game before. They once didn't understand the difference between the dungeon queue and the cyrodiil queue.

blktauna

Absolutely! Kudos to @ZOS_Kevin for all his patience and hard work!

SilverBride

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

I expressed that if people over report on one thread that thread should be closed instead as topic probably is toxic for aggressor and reporter

There's clear records of that happening too from moderation. So my suggestion too follows standards.

I expressed this point as way to counter people who tend to Overally report.

If people need to report 10 times in 1 thread then something is wrong with reporter themselves too unless they are famous and are hated for nothing related to topic.

Overall, I think abuse of reporting system should be looked at. That is my intention here as people didn't just disappear from forums because of mods but people who reported them

It's the players too who are fault in current state of forums

If someone is baited and verbally attacked 10 times in one thread how are they to deal with it? If they get into a discussion with the other poster they risk escalating the issue even further and putting their own account at risk. And no one should have to just have to accept repeated verbal attacks.

The things we do agree on are that moderation is heavy handed and the entire system should be looked at and reworked. And if a thread is generating a lot of reports it should be locked.