"PVP" and "Cyrodiil" Gets you Banned on Twitch

StormWylf

Rogue_WolfESO wrote: »

Someone reading the thread reported me to zos for discussing discipline. Lmao

What are "they" so afraid of, that some idiot would report you for participating in a discussion? I wonder if they reported Kevin too?

spartaxoxo

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@spartaxoxo, so we'll touch on this also. First, please feel free to PM me your specific example. Happy to review and discuss. Also, that is something anyone on the forum can do. We can chat about an issue and we can always talk to customer service to reevaluate actions as needed.

Moderation as you probably can guess isn't an exact science. Actions are taken based on the circumstances of the current situation and the history of those involved. We won't always get that right for a variety of reason. But we will continue to strive to get better and address situations as they occur. What should be noted here is in those back and forth conversations that get actioned, often times those escalate because either the parties start to include personal attacks or one of the parties has reported the other and a mod needs to figure out context by reading through the interactions and make a call based on our community guidelines. So it's a bit of a different ball game compared to live stream moderation.

However, please remember that our mods are human at the end of the day and work hard to ensure the forum is a welcoming and approachable space for all players. If there is an issue with how anyone has been moderated, please make sure to place a ticket to challenge the moderation. For added measure, please feel free to PM me and I can get that number over to our customer service team for additional context.

When there is room for open dialogue, we're happy to have it. I hope this provides some context for forum moderation as well.

I understand this, I actually used to be a community moderator myself for a different company. I don't make this statement lightly as I understand how borderline it can be sometimes.

But please look into the people who have certain amounts of posts and agrees or go back to old active threads and realize just how many people are permanently banned.

Back when we handled appeals we had a rule of thumb, if you can't explain it without playing mental gymnastics then it's not fair. And lots of reports mean nothing on super emotionally charged discussions because people then use it on posts they never would have otherwise.

Edit
This doesn't seem to be the case here, but it really ought to be.

xaraan

Rogue_WolfESO wrote: »

My reply to this thread has disappeared

Same. I pointed out a specific example of something and its just -poof- gone. lol

Tells you all about the lip service we see in the thread from zos about how it's really supposed to be.

ArchangelIsraphel

Given ZOS's response to a specific....incident which shall not be named in which PVP players were also severely disrespected on a certain someone's stream, I am not in the least bit surprised by this behavior by the company.

SimonThesis

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

However, please remember that our mods are human at the end of the day and work hard to ensure the forum is a welcoming and approachable space for all players. If there is an issue with how anyone has been moderated, please make sure to place a ticket to challenge the moderation. For added measure, please feel free to PM me and I can get that number over to our customer service team for additional context.

When there is room for open dialogue, we're happy to have it. I hope this provides some context for forum moderation as well.

So glad to have someone like Kevin in the company, an adult in the room with empathy and tact willing to listen to us and even help people out. I don't envy him tho, proverbial trigger happy peeps below him, company hacks above him, and the public to deal with. But he's doing a fine job of it and sounds like things will get better from here and that's really all we can ask.

xaraan

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@spartaxoxo, so we'll touch on this also. First, please feel free to PM me your specific example. Happy to review and discuss. Also, that is something anyone on the forum can do. We can chat about an issue and we can always talk to customer service to reevaluate actions as needed.

Moderation as you probably can guess isn't an exact science. Actions are taken based on the circumstances of the current situation and the history of those involved. We won't always get that right for a variety of reason. But we will continue to strive to get better and address situations as they occur. What should be noted here is in those back and forth conversations that get actioned, often times those escalate because either the parties start to include personal attacks or one of the parties has reported the other and a mod needs to figure out context by reading through the interactions and make a call based on our community guidelines. So it's a bit of a different ball game compared to live stream moderation.

However, please remember that our mods are human at the end of the day and work hard to ensure the forum is a welcoming and approachable space for all players. If there is an issue with how anyone has been moderated, please make sure to place a ticket to challenge the moderation. For added measure, please feel free to PM me and I can get that number over to our customer service team for additional context.

When there is room for open dialogue, we're happy to have it. I hope this provides some context for forum moderation as well.

Serious question: Is this actually true?

I've not had a ton of moderation for all the years I've been here, but the few times I have it was borderline every single time - but I could definitely see why zos didn't want something posted from a company standpoint even if it didn't technically violate a rule. But I reached out to discuss and every time I pretty much either got someone being defensive and sticking to their guns (and it's zos' house, so all I can do is state my case, the house wins whether I'm right or wrong) and other times I got what looked like essentially a form letter response that offered information on a change, but no real "discussion" about anything. Other times something just vanishes without any information provided (much like we see being discussed here happening on the streams). Some of these were years ago, so I'm sure things have changed in the way it's run, but I still see a lot of weird suppression moderation lately (not on me necessarily) just to quiet down certain trains of discussion (and ToS is pointed to as the reason, even if it's not true).

I'd imagine you guys are busy and not just sitting around waiting for us to message you. Which is why I ask, are you really willing to discuss something or just give us a form-letter bit of info and never respond again? And discussion means hearing the other side and changing things if necessary, yet I've never heard of anyone getting something reinstated on here (not saying it doesn't happen, just haven't heard of it), which would mean you guys do actually think it's an exact science and your actions are always perfect.

blktauna

Thank you @ZOS_Kevin

You have a rough job being the face here but none of the decision making ability. Keep up the good work. I know you are only able to do so much and its appreciated even if it doesn't seem like it at times.

neferpitou73

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, we wanted to follow up on the post here and the general sentiment about asking/discussing PvP in chat during livestreams. We agree that noting terms like "PvP" and "Cyrodiil" should not be timed out when players ask or referenced the topic in our livestream chat. The moderation shown in the clip was a bit heavy-handed. We have talked about this internally, updated our moderation training, and made sure everyone is clear that conversations around core functions of our game, like PvP, should not be timed out or banned.

Please keep in mind that spamming those terms (or any terms) will be treated differently, as the action of spamming is disruptive to the entire experience. We understand that spamming was not present in this clip, but we want to highlight that there is a clear distinction between asking about/referencing PvP and spamming text blocks of the term.

Thanks everyone for following up on the video and the concern around moderation. We will continue to strive toward better moderation overall and appreciate your feedback.

I'm happy to see the update about ZOS discussing incidents like the twitch moderation internally; and I'd like to thank you for the update, you have been one of the better communicators among ZOS' staff.

But on the subject of moderation, while I think we all appreciate how hard it can be to keep discussions civil and communities happy (many of us run guilds or discord servers ourselves, although that's not quite equivalent to moderation of such a large forum), incidents like today's, where we had to make a second thread to make our feedback "appreciated" need to be looked at.

MasterSpatula

Kevin, I'm trying to be as diplomatic as I can while still being honest, which is difficult, because I know from experience that saying the honest, direct, precise, and balanced thing can actually be quite hazardous here:

I think it may be possible that the evidence for your belief in the good faith of certain individuals may rely a bit too heavily on data you get from those same individuals.

SimonThesis

I'm satisfied, sounds like things are going to get better from here and that's all we can ask.

I don't like to dwell on the past but the first thread getting disappeared could have been closed with an explanation from a mod rather than disappeared. That should definitely be looked into, though I suspect Kevin didn't even see the first thread before someone got to it first. I can understand if people got too heated somehow and started breaking the rules, but closing it with an explanation would have looked a lot better. Here's a link to the first thread that was disappeared: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/604451/pvp-and-cyrodiil-gets-you-banned-on-bethesda-twitch

ZOS_Kevin

@SimonThesis Just to close the loop on this, we also addressed the first thread closing internally and made adjustments there as well. It's also why we wanted to make sure to respond in this thread.

And to put emphasis on this, these adjustments in moderation will be an ongoing conversation. Adjustments can always be made to make the experience better and we understand that.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

This has been going on for a long time, it's not new.

I'm sorry to say it, but our producer does this when new content is about to be released. They obviously don't want bad publicity in a domain that they know isn't up to industry standard (it isn't).

It doesn't look good, but neither does writing 'PVP Pen..', so there

(Personal opinion and past experiences, no bash)

Gaeliannas

@ZOS_Kevin, Much of this would be resolved by better communications from ZOS. With a lack of actual clear facts, people will conjecture, undoubtedly some of those will throw ZOS in a poor light, be unpopular, or become highly charged discussions, all of which could have been avoided had the topic under discussion been clear communicated in the first place, rathe than a one sentence statement from ZOS that can be interpreted various different ways, that never receives a clarification as to what was actually meant by it.

In short, in many cases, it is ZOS's poor communication skills that leads players into discussing things that result in them being disappeared for bashing, conspiracy theories, etc... All of which could have been easily avoided in the first place, starting at the top. Granted, there are bad eggs out there no doubt, but there are also good eggs looking for answers, clarification, and clear communications about a game they are apparently passionate about, or they wouldn't be here in the first place. Don't put the good eggs out to bake in the sun, and then throw then out for turning bad.

Emmagoldman

Synaptic wrote: »

Iron_Warrior wrote: »

You didn't took the hints so they had to make it clearer. You See, in the new chapter the 3 alliances are trying to make peace but the ascendant lord, the bad guy of the story wants to make problems. So at the end of this story arc you are going to defeat him and alliances will make peace, cyrodill will turn into a pve zone and there would be no more wars. at the end maybe ascendant lord was the true hero trying to save pvp players from this terrible fate. It was all there you just had see more carefully...

To be honest they should just come out and say they have no interest in further developing, balancing or improving PvP in this game in favor of pumping out store assets and furnishing items so the few of us that are left can just give up hope and move on.

This

They have zero issue creating player houses at expensive prices, new dlcs, trials, but somehow can't create new battle ground maps.
Even some of the players houses are big enough to be a bg map.
Or just reskin whatever dlc flavor and feel is into something new.
Shoot, just copy and past part of the overland map/dlc/trial into a bg map.

Low hanging fruit but Zero interest at all.

I've recognized that pvp is the last focus and have mostly moved on from any serious form of pvp.

For any pvper waiting for an "official message" that they have no interest is similar to that person waiting around in a broken relationship just hear they are not loved and its over when they know very well that its been over for a loooooong time. Time to move on yall

danno8

Part of the reason I only post infrequently now is that there has been a decided shift in moderation policy on the forums in the last year or so.

Prior to April of last year I had not a single moderation or warning on my account for nearly 8 years of forum posts (thousands of posts) and within a few months I had received 2 warnings and one suspension.

Since I can't discuss the moderation itself I will only say that nothing changed about how I conduct myself on these forums, so I can only assume something changed on ZoS's side.

Only now I can say I have changed how I conduct myself...I no longer participate.

jaws343

xaraan wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@spartaxoxo, so we'll touch on this also. First, please feel free to PM me your specific example. Happy to review and discuss. Also, that is something anyone on the forum can do. We can chat about an issue and we can always talk to customer service to reevaluate actions as needed.

Moderation as you probably can guess isn't an exact science. Actions are taken based on the circumstances of the current situation and the history of those involved. We won't always get that right for a variety of reason. But we will continue to strive to get better and address situations as they occur. What should be noted here is in those back and forth conversations that get actioned, often times those escalate because either the parties start to include personal attacks or one of the parties has reported the other and a mod needs to figure out context by reading through the interactions and make a call based on our community guidelines. So it's a bit of a different ball game compared to live stream moderation.

However, please remember that our mods are human at the end of the day and work hard to ensure the forum is a welcoming and approachable space for all players. If there is an issue with how anyone has been moderated, please make sure to place a ticket to challenge the moderation. For added measure, please feel free to PM me and I can get that number over to our customer service team for additional context.

When there is room for open dialogue, we're happy to have it. I hope this provides some context for forum moderation as well.

Serious question: Is this actually true?

I've not had a ton of moderation for all the years I've been here, but the few times I have it was borderline every single time - but I could definitely see why zos didn't want something posted from a company standpoint even if it didn't technically violate a rule. But I reached out to discuss and every time I pretty much either got someone being defensive and sticking to their guns (and it's zos' house, so all I can do is state my case, the house wins whether I'm right or wrong) and other times I got what looked like essentially a form letter response that offered information on a change, but no real "discussion" about anything. Other times something just vanishes without any information provided (much like we see being discussed here happening on the streams). Some of these were years ago, so I'm sure things have changed in the way it's run, but I still see a lot of weird suppression moderation lately (not on me necessarily) just to quiet down certain trains of discussion (and ToS is pointed to as the reason, even if it's not true).

I'd imagine you guys are busy and not just sitting around waiting for us to message you. Which is why I ask, are you really willing to discuss something or just give us a form-letter bit of info and never respond again? And discussion means hearing the other side and changing things if necessary, yet I've never heard of anyone getting something reinstated on here (not saying it doesn't happen, just haven't heard of it), which would mean you guys do actually think it's an exact science and your actions are always perfect.

I think this is an important aspect to highlight.

Too often, any moderation discussion through the ticket system really doesn't actually seem like a discussion. It feels like a decision has been made and there is zero true back and forth, just a handful of canned responses that just feel copy pasted into the ticket based on keywords.

And often, the reasoning for a moderation action is given without true guidance or explanation, even after a back and forth. It's just a snippet of the TOS and a quote of the post that caused the moderation, but when actually pressed on the reasoning, or what parts of a comment warranted the moderation, it's just repeatedly linked back to the vague TOS wording. A true dialogue and appeals process for moderation questions should include actual, reasoned, responses that educate rather than just sounding dismissive.

Here are the TOS, don't break them again, is far less helpful from a customer perspective, than: Here are the TOS, here is how we decided that your comment violated them, and here is how you can adjust your approach in the future to avoid similar moderation.

On top of the dialogue, I feel like moderation itself is often extremely selective, rather than evenly applied. The same exact comment, written by multiple people in different threads could lead to different levels of moderation, or no moderation at all. We have all witnessed users dropping comments and those comments being slightly edited and nothing happens to the user. And we have all witnessed users doing extremely similar things and being banned rather than their posts just mildly edited.

And if it all comes down to: a player report you. What kind of reasonable action can anyone take here. So, if a player doesn't report me, my post is just edited slightly. But if a player reports me, I may get a ban for the same thing. It makes zero sense and is extremely heavy handed, and I think where a ton of the hesitancy and discontent around the moderation derives from. No-one really understands why they are being punished for some things, no one truly has any effective means to appeal, and even when they do appeal, no one is given proper communication to help them "self-moderate" in the future to avoid these types of issues.

Gaeliannas

@ZOS_Kevin sorry for the additional ping, but I wanted to expound upon my earlier comment a little. With better communications you and the entire forums teams job will also become so much easier.

Wouldn't it be a lot more fun, if you could come here and yuck it up with the players, have meaningful two way conversations, and be regarded as source of truth in regards to all things ESO? Sort of akin to a lifeguard showing up to work at the public pool, because now it seems like you all need to suit up in SWAT gear before logging in, which has to be wearing on all of you.

As a player, I know I would rather know what is going on and be set straight and told why when I am off base on an assumption (or not have to assume at all preferably). Also, being as I am 60+ and a professional, I like to be treated that way, not like some 5 year old who doesn't have a clue about how things work, either from a technology or a business perspective. Having done both very successfully for years (as have many of your customers), I am quite aware of when I am being fed meaningless marketing one liners vs real information, and it is more than a bit insulting to be treated that way. But the ball is in ZOS's court to make those sort of changes and start open meaningful two way dialog with your customers.

And yes, it will probably take quite a while to fix, as it isn't a light switch and there are many years of history to turn around.

joerginger

danno8 wrote: »

Part of the reason I only post infrequently now is that there has been a decided shift in moderation policy on the forums in the last year or so.

Prior to April of last year I had not a single moderation or warning on my account for nearly 8 years of forum posts (thousands of posts) and within a few months I had received 2 warnings and one suspension.

Since I can't discuss the moderation itself I will only say that nothing changed about how I conduct myself on these forums, so I can only assume something changed on ZoS's side.

Only now I can say I have changed how I conduct myself...I no longer participate.

Ditto here, although I haven't been here nearly as long and have posted much less. Every little attempt at a joke can be seen as a bannable offense which means I need to be extra careful now with what I write since I had already been suspended. I was told that next time the account would be deleted.

Lumenn

Gaeliannas wrote: »

Also, being as I am 60+ and a professional, I like to be treated that way, not like some 5 year old who doesn't have a clue about how things work, either from a technology or a business perspective. Having done both very successfully for years (as have many of your customers), I am quite aware of when I am being fed meaningless marketing one liners vs real information, and it is more than a bit insulting to be treated that way. But the ball is in ZOS's court to make those sort of changes and start open meaningful two way dialog with your customers.

This. Too often zos doesn't realize, or possibly, doesn't care, that many of us also have had to work public relations in one form or another. Quite a few of us for more decades than I suspect many of their associates have been alive. We recognize not only the "PC answers" but also the occasional need for them. It's a company first and foremost. Having said that I've never understood the heavy handed moderation on the forums. Along with the few options for rebuttal it just seems Orwellian. I'm not even speaking from an ethical point of view either. When you swing with a big stick you have to keep using a big stick. It's not cost/time efficient. (Payroll: what's the ratio of forum mods vs in game mods. Future sales/profits: people talk. How many will avoid and denounce anything to remotely do with the Zos name due to experiences here? Even one sale less due to poor management is too much. And in my experience its always more than one) while it is an ever growing popular managing style, it's never made financial sense to me. Even if you have no competition, it never stays that way.

Perhaps this "re-education" will help a bit and make things, if not more positive, at least more open and comfortable for awhile.

McTaterskins

xaraan wrote: »

Rogue_WolfESO wrote: »

My reply to this thread has disappeared

Same. I pointed out a specific example of something and its just -poof- gone. lol

Tells you all about the lip service we see in the thread from zos about how it's really supposed to be.

Yup. Lots of posts missing. Thread was locked for a little bit as well.

However, based on Kevin getting involved, it would seem the entire concern has been moved up the chain.

As negative as even I myself can get, responses and work done in the forms and capacity available that @ZOS_Kevin is involved in are not to be taken lightly. I believe he does good work and has really made great efforts to improve communication.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Could you make a comment about the very heavy handed moderation around here as well? ...When you look back at all your posters with high post counts, nearly all of them are banned or inactive. People quit trying rather than losing their accounts and there are very few people actively posting with a post count that rivals mine despite this forum being many years old. When your oldest posters have such a massive ban rate en masse, it tends to show overly strict moderation rather than anything a particular individual did.

@ZOS_Kevin

I have the same concern regarding posters who have been very active through the years. Using my own forum account as an example I have created 1.3k discussions and posted 5.9k comments. Being the human that I am I have a handful of infractions, because humans aren't infallible. If I make a post that is actionable do they look back at my history and just consider that I have made 5 (for example) infractions or do they factor in that I have also made 5995 posts that were appropriate and within the guidelines?

I feel that infractions should be compared to how many constructive posts were made. In my opinion a ratio of 5 infractions out of 6000 posts should not immediately be given the same action as someone with 5 infractions out of 25 posts, for example. I also feel that the severity of the infraction should be considered rather than just saying a certain number of infractions results in a certain action.

Brrrofski

This has happened to me twice before.

Once about a year ago when I said "Another ESO live with nothing about PvP". Timed out. It's th only thing I said all stream. Those exact words.

And before then when I typed "PvP?" twice in an ESO live. About 10 minutes apart. Timed out.

It's happened to loads of people I know too.

Also, the spamming argument doesn't hold up.

I bet if I typed "PvP" 3 times in a short period, I'd be timed out. If I typed "Are we having new companions?" in the same time, I wouldn't.

Plenty of streamers have called it out too. It's become a meme at this point.

geonsocal

Zyva wrote: »

I do feel like there must have been a reason a mod was under the impression it was appropriate to delete comments and give a time-out to anyone who said that term. Are people who care about pvp considered divisive? or was bringing up pvp in a stream mentioned to be something not wanted? I dont know, but its a feeling you walk away from even if it was "heavy-handed", it was still deemed a specific target for moderation.

ah, very good post...this is truly at the core of the situation...

geonsocal

SimonThesis wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

However, please remember that our mods are human at the end of the day and work hard to ensure the forum is a welcoming and approachable space for all players. If there is an issue with how anyone has been moderated, please make sure to place a ticket to challenge the moderation. For added measure, please feel free to PM me and I can get that number over to our customer service team for additional context.

When there is room for open dialogue, we're happy to have it. I hope this provides some context for forum moderation as well.

So glad to have someone like Kevin in the company, an adult in the room with empathy and tact willing to listen to us and even help people out. I don't envy him tho, proverbial trigger happy peeps below him, company hacks above him, and the public to deal with. But he's doing a fine job of it and sounds like things will get better from here and that's really all we can ask.

it's kind of a tough situation for zos...due to the complexity of the game, eso attracts some pretty sharp people...

sharp folks are genuinely pretty good at figuring out: "what's wrong with this picture"...

granted, some of us "smart" folks can get a little feisty from our competitive nature or emotional committment to 7 year old toons...

still, a much better job (in terms of both game performance and communication) must be achieved...

geonsocal

i'm with you @SilverBride ...i have a thread over in the campaigns' section...

been going strong there about five years now...was looking through some of the first pages of the thread the other day and like half the posters have been banned...

I mean fudge, we can all do better, but - this is our community, our game...

forum mods last like what, 2 years maybe...it's just a job for them...for many of us, the game is a passion...

FeedbackOnly

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, we wanted to follow up on the post here and the general sentiment about asking/discussing PvP in chat during livestreams. We agree that noting terms like "PvP" and "Cyrodiil" should not be timed out when players ask or referenced the topic in our livestream chat. The moderation shown in the clip was a bit heavy-handed. We have talked about this internally, updated our moderation training, and made sure everyone is clear that conversations around core functions of our game, like PvP, should not be timed out or banned.

Please keep in mind that spamming those terms (or any terms) will be treated differently, as the action of spamming is disruptive to the entire experience. We understand that spamming was not present in this clip, but we want to highlight that there is a clear distinction between asking about/referencing PvP and spamming text blocks of the term.

Thanks everyone for following up on the video and the concern around moderation. We will continue to strive toward better moderation overall and appreciate your feedback.

Could you make a comment about the very heavy handed moderation around here as well? I have a good example if you'd like me to PM you, instead I'll talk in more general terms.

When you look back at all your posters with high post counts, nearly all of them are banned or inactive. People quit trying rather than losing their accounts and there are very few people actively posting with a post count that rivals mine despite this forum being many years old. When your oldest posters have such a massive ban rate en masse, it tends to show overly strict moderation rather than anything a particular individual did.

One thing I noticed is that "back and forth" seems to result in the most likely to be completely incomprehensible to outside observers, because what violated that rule is if the moderator felt that it wasn't a necessary discussion regardless if the people in that conversation could be regarded as flaming and trolling each or not.

In addition, a LOT of reports tend to flood very sensitive topics where people take big offense to disagreement they would not normally take offense to. But the moderation team seems not to take this into consideration and decide that if a conversation upset enough people even on a topic where people are easily upset because it's emotionally charged, it constitutes a ban worthy offense even though the exact same post would later be deemed acceptable because that person merely expressed an opinion.

You saw this in action with the PvP moderation in Twitch but it extends to this forum as well.

Yes I hope this too gets addressed. We all talk on reddit @ZOS_Kevin how forum moderation over last couple years has gotten to far.

FeedbackOnly

geonsocal wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

However, please remember that our mods are human at the end of the day and work hard to ensure the forum is a welcoming and approachable space for all players. If there is an issue with how anyone has been moderated, please make sure to place a ticket to challenge the moderation. For added measure, please feel free to PM me and I can get that number over to our customer service team for additional context.

When there is room for open dialogue, we're happy to have it. I hope this provides some context for forum moderation as well.

So glad to have someone like Kevin in the company, an adult in the room with empathy and tact willing to listen to us and even help people out. I don't envy him tho, proverbial trigger happy peeps below him, company hacks above him, and the public to deal with. But he's doing a fine job of it and sounds like things will get better from here and that's really all we can ask.

it's kind of a tough situation for zos...due to the complexity of the game, eso attracts some pretty sharp people...

sharp folks are genuinely pretty good at figuring out: "what's wrong with this picture"...

granted, some of us "smart" folks can get a little feisty from our competitive nature or emotional committment to 7 year old toons...

still, a much better job (in terms of both game performance and communication) must be achieved...

Suspension over bans, give them a week or month to cool their heads. Many people since the beginning are just gone.

I concerned especially that we lose a lot of valuable reports during pts sessions. I heard people they stopped reporting bugs because of this.

Gaeliannas

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

However, please remember that our mods are human at the end of the day and work hard to ensure the forum is a welcoming and approachable space for all players. If there is an issue with how anyone has been moderated, please make sure to place a ticket to challenge the moderation. For added measure, please feel free to PM me and I can get that number over to our customer service team for additional context.

When there is room for open dialogue, we're happy to have it. I hope this provides some context for forum moderation as well.

So glad to have someone like Kevin in the company, an adult in the room with empathy and tact willing to listen to us and even help people out. I don't envy him tho, proverbial trigger happy peeps below him, company hacks above him, and the public to deal with. But he's doing a fine job of it and sounds like things will get better from here and that's really all we can ask.

it's kind of a tough situation for zos...due to the complexity of the game, eso attracts some pretty sharp people...

sharp folks are genuinely pretty good at figuring out: "what's wrong with this picture"...

granted, some of us "smart" folks can get a little feisty from our competitive nature or emotional committment to 7 year old toons...

still, a much better job (in terms of both game performance and communication) must be achieved...

Suspension over bans, give them a week or month to cool their heads. Many people since the beginning are just gone.

I concerned especially that we lose a lot of valuable reports during pts sessions. I heard people they stopped reporting bugs because of this.

^This

I know a group of folks that recently found a bug in a a very old trial on VetHM. But due to a previous group being banned over reporting a bug they found, they decided to not report it and never use the strategy that caused it again. These are a straight up group, working hard on progression and found it completely by accident, but in fear of repercussions for finding and reporting a glitch. How has it gotten so bad that it is assumed those finding bugs, were exploiting on purpose?

In almost any other game, a GM would have shown up in game, had them reproduce it, thanked them for being awesome customers, and would have passed detailed notes to the dev team to enable them to fix it.

BlossomDead

I can back up the claims on super heavy handed censorship - this is not moderation anymore. I think my forum account has received a final warning. And if I am to look at the reported posts that were sent to me I always burst out laughing - it's just ridiculous.

McTaterskins

Gaeliannas wrote: »

In almost any other game, a GM would have shown up in game, had them reproduce it, thanked them for being awesome customers, and would have passed detailed notes to the dev team to enable them to fix it.

Sigh. Simpler times eh?

BlossomDead wrote: »

I can back up the claims on super heavy handed censorship - this is not moderation anymore. I think my forum account has received a final warning. And if I am to look at the reported posts that were sent to me I always burst out laughing - it's just ridiculous.

Hah. I'm on like account 3 or 4. (Ack! Plz no violation!)