Fed up with the Hesitation to Give Frost Warden a Win

Mr_Stach

I came out of the woodwork for this, I created a Forum Account for this. I skimmed through all my emails to 2015 for my Forum invite, which was in French (I don't speak French) for some reason, it was expired. I had to create a ticket to have a new Invite sent, that took forever. But here I am for all of you to complain and whine because from the get go, Warden was pitched as an Animal Friending, Ice Slinging, Frost shielding Badass. Frost Mages/Warriors/cool dudes is what I was looking for and man it was a bit off of what I was looking for.



I just want a frosty boi, that's it. Animal Companion Tree is great, Healing with trees are great, Frost Tanking is nice. But I wanna be a Frosty Murder Hobo, do I expect Zos to bend over backward for me? Not at all, but it's getting frustrating seeing an entire tree just being next to useless for Years. There are plenty of ideas across the forums, Reddit, and YouTube to draw on, the want is there but there no follow-through.

This PTS kinda pushed me to action, I usually would make a quick complaint on Reddit, people would flame me, but I dunno. Maybe it was Arctic Blast, 5 seconds for a stun, yeah it's an AoE Stun blah blah, but at that point I might as well use Freeze Time, it's actually faster. Maybe it was Zos trying to breath life into Crystalized Slab, adding a stun, but once again you want to be able to stun on your terms not on your enemies. Maybe it's the fact that Frozen Gate hasn't been touched since Morrowind, man that skill just needs to be completely reworked it's almost as useful Circle of Protection.

Anyways, Rant over. Stop giving use Disney-esque slightly cold wind and give us some anime balls to the walls Ice Ridiculousness

ESO_Nightingale

arctic blast's nerf is so horrific. like you've said, and like we've said, we don't need reactive stuns. we need a ranged and on demand class stun. Also, arctic blast is just so damn close to becoming a real pve dps skill. At the very least it should have 5 more seconds of duration and 5 more ticks, then it'd finally be able to be solid enough to be used by at least a couple of builds.
But if we had AB4.0


it would fix our pvp stun issue, and give us 1 more powerful and fun frost damage skill for pve.

MashmalloMan

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Oh wow.. blast from the past.

Back when we actually got hyped for chapter reveals. I remember seeing the bear and the frost spells and getting pumped. Chat was on fire.

Can't say the same for the card game reveal lol... but hey, it's better than I thought it'd be.

Still waiting on Warden's to get the frost spammable shown in the clip.

LeHarrt91

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Oh wow.. blast from the past.

Back when we actually got hyped for chapter reveals. I remember seeing the bear and the frost spells and getting pumped. Chat was on fire.

Can't say the same for the card game reveal lol... but hey, it's better than I thought it'd be.

Still waiting on Warden's to get the frost spammable shown in the clip.

Yes, the skill in this animation is all ive wanted for my warden.

SEINTDARKNES

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I came out of the woodwork for this, I created a Forum Account for this. I skimmed through all my emails to 2015 for my Forum invite, which was in French (I don't speak French) for some reason, it was expired. I had to create a ticket to have a new Invite sent, that took forever. But here I am for all of you to complain and whine because from the get go, Warden was pitched as an Animal Friending, Ice Slinging, Frost shielding Badass. Frost Mages/Warriors/cool dudes is what I was looking for and man it was a bit off of what I was looking for.



I just want a frosty boi, that's it. Animal Companion Tree is great, Healing with trees are great, Frost Tanking is nice. But I wanna be a Frosty Murder Hobo, do I expect Zos to bend over backward for me? Not at all, but it's getting frustrating seeing an entire tree just being next to useless for Years. There are plenty of ideas across the forums, Reddit, and YouTube to draw on, the want is there but there no follow-through.

This PTS kinda pushed me to action, I usually would make a quick complaint on Reddit, people would flame me, but I dunno. Maybe it was Arctic Blast, 5 seconds for a stun, yeah it's an AoE Stun blah blah, but at that point I might as well use Freeze Time, it's actually faster. Maybe it was Zos trying to breath life into Crystalized Slab, adding a stun, but once again you want to be able to stun on your terms not on your enemies. Maybe it's the fact that Frozen Gate hasn't been touched since Morrowind, man that skill just needs to be completely reworked it's almost as useful Circle of Protection.

Anyways, Rant over. Stop giving use Disney-esque slightly cold wind and give us some anime balls to the walls Ice Ridiculousness

It's nice to see more fellow wardens are trying to get his voice heard

I remember i try the game when tamariel one edition was a thing if i don't miss remember my first character was a Nb, i just get to lvl 5 and quit the game xD, time pass and a friend tell me that the game was going to introduce the ice mage, i was very excited then i saw the Morrowind videos and was more excited for my disappointing the warden class was no ice mage and was some mix of healer,tank and a lil of dps but with all the bad things i keep playing with my warden until now, so i have seeing the pain the class had pass and how little by little the class was getting better and only like baby steps meanwhile other classes get a lot of love and reworks too, sincerely i don't remember 1 rework of any single skill and only remember some nasty nerfs like the birds nerf to the velocity was a lot faster and in the beginning you can't doge birds, we lost the stun in the sub assault skill and some others.

Someone remember the problem with the skill lotus + mend wounds?

The warden class was lacking identity from the beginning at the point they nerf horn ultimate and give us the minor toughness part but right now we have gained little to nothing extra, warden lacks of identity because no matter if you play Magicka or stamina it's almost the same way to play in fact warden was known for being the "original and viable" hybrid class.

It's kinda sad and disappointing remember this kind of things but this is our reality, i just hope we get real love/buffs to the class.

ESO_Nightingale

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I came out of the woodwork for this, I created a Forum Account for this. I skimmed through all my emails to 2015 for my Forum invite, which was in French (I don't speak French) for some reason, it was expired. I had to create a ticket to have a new Invite sent, that took forever. But here I am for all of you to complain and whine because from the get go, Warden was pitched as an Animal Friending, Ice Slinging, Frost shielding Badass. Frost Mages/Warriors/cool dudes is what I was looking for and man it was a bit off of what I was looking for.



I just want a frosty boi, that's it. Animal Companion Tree is great, Healing with trees are great, Frost Tanking is nice. But I wanna be a Frosty Murder Hobo, do I expect Zos to bend over backward for me? Not at all, but it's getting frustrating seeing an entire tree just being next to useless for Years. There are plenty of ideas across the forums, Reddit, and YouTube to draw on, the want is there but there no follow-through.

This PTS kinda pushed me to action, I usually would make a quick complaint on Reddit, people would flame me, but I dunno. Maybe it was Arctic Blast, 5 seconds for a stun, yeah it's an AoE Stun blah blah, but at that point I might as well use Freeze Time, it's actually faster. Maybe it was Zos trying to breath life into Crystalized Slab, adding a stun, but once again you want to be able to stun on your terms not on your enemies. Maybe it's the fact that Frozen Gate hasn't been touched since Morrowind, man that skill just needs to be completely reworked it's almost as useful Circle of Protection.

Anyways, Rant over. Stop giving use Disney-esque slightly cold wind and give us some anime balls to the walls Ice Ridiculousness

It's nice to see more fellow wardens are trying to get his voice heard

I remember i try the game when tamariel one edition was a thing if i don't miss remember my first character was a Nb, i just get to lvl 5 and quit the game xD, time pass and a friend tell me that the game was going to introduce the ice mage, i was very excited then i saw the Morrowind videos and was more excited for my disappointing the warden class was no ice mage and was some mix of healer,tank and a lil of dps but with all the bad things i keep playing with my warden until now, so i have seeing the pain the class had pass and how little by little the class was getting better and only like baby steps meanwhile other classes get a lot of love and reworks too, sincerely i don't remember 1 rework of any single skill and only remember some nasty nerfs like the birds nerf to the velocity was a lot faster and in the beginning you can't doge birds, we lost the stun in the sub assault skill and some others.

Someone remember the problem with the skill lotus + mend wounds?

The warden class was lacking identity from the beginning at the point they nerf horn ultimate and give us the minor toughness part but right now we have gained little to nothing extra, warden lacks of identity because no matter if you play Magicka or stamina it's almost the same way to play in fact warden was known for being the "original and viable" hybrid class.

It's kinda sad and disappointing remember this kind of things but this is our reality, i just hope we get real love/buffs to the class.

Many years ago i went to make a frost dps when warden came out and i was pretty stunned and annoyed by the lack of viable dps skills. Since then we still haven't received a new warden frost dps skill, but, we have since then amazingly recieved the glacial presence crit damage bonus, minor brittle, frostbite, frost reach's buff and we're about to recieve perfected whorl of the depths. I really hope that we can finally get a new frost damage warden skill soon to finally open up build options a bit. As has already been stated many times by many people already, we really want arctic blast to finally become viable for dps. I think at this current point in time, it at minimum needs to have 5 more ticks and seconds of duration. It's just a shame that these changes that warden is supposed to recieve, don't fix any of it's pvp problems whatsoever, and just make them far worse.

Mr_Stach

There's definitely been some great things, but you'd think that Warden the Master of Frost damage would have more Frost Damage. Hopefully Zos listens to some of this feedback.

SEINTDARKNES

Since then we still haven't received a new warden frost dps skill, but, we have since then amazingly recieved the glacial presence crit damage bonus, minor brittle, frostbite, frost reach's buff and we're about to recieve perfected whorl of the depths. I really hope that we can finally get a new frost damage warden skill soon to finally open up build options a bit. As has already been stated many times by many people already, we really want arctic blast to finally become viable for dps.

Yes you are right but the lil problem i have with some of those things it's they are buffs in general but they are not buffs for the warden class like you say we need to get a new frost skill and what better to get the stun and dps options pack into one skill.

ESO_Nightingale

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

Since then we still haven't received a new warden frost dps skill, but, we have since then amazingly recieved the glacial presence crit damage bonus, minor brittle, frostbite, frost reach's buff and we're about to recieve perfected whorl of the depths. I really hope that we can finally get a new frost damage warden skill soon to finally open up build options a bit. As has already been stated many times by many people already, we really want arctic blast to finally become viable for dps.

Yes you are right but the lil problem i have with some of those things it's they are buffs in general but they are not buffs for the warden class like you say we need to get a new frost skill and what better to get the stun and dps options pack into one skill.

Here's hoping the next 2 weeks are able to pull through for us.

auz

I wonder why they didn't show the chucking bird spammable in the clip?

ESO_Nightingale

auz wrote: »

I wonder why they didn't show the chucking bird spammable in the clip?

Why would you use that spammable when it's insanely slow, and the proc condition for off balance makes no sense?

Mr_Stach

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

auz wrote: »

I wonder why they didn't show the chucking bird spammable in the clip?

Why would you use that spammable when it's insanely slow, and the proc condition for off balance makes no sense?

What if they were faster Ice Birds that shattered on impact hurting nearby enemies, that would be fun

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

auz wrote: »

I wonder why they didn't show the chucking bird spammable in the clip?

Why would you use that spammable when it's insanely slow, and the proc condition for off balance makes no sense?

What if they were faster Ice Birds that shattered on impact hurting nearby enemies, that would be fun

That would make way more sense.

Necrotech_Master

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

auz wrote: »

I wonder why they didn't show the chucking bird spammable in the clip?

Why would you use that spammable when it's insanely slow, and the proc condition for off balance makes no sense?

i would agree with this, ive tried using the bird and it just feels super slow and kludgy (kind of like elemental weapon from the psijic line, tried it and didnt like it)

i definitely plan on replacing icy conjurer on my mag warden with whorl of the depths, while icy conjurer is good for single target dmg, it only affects 1 target and if that target dies early its on cooldown for a long time

ESO_Nightingale

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

auz wrote: »

I wonder why they didn't show the chucking bird spammable in the clip?

Why would you use that spammable when it's insanely slow, and the proc condition for off balance makes no sense?

i would agree with this, ive tried using the bird and it just feels super slow and kludgy (kind of like elemental weapon from the psijic line, tried it and didnt like it)

i definitely plan on replacing icy conjurer on my mag warden with whorl of the depths, while icy conjurer is good for single target dmg, it only affects 1 target and if that target dies early its on cooldown for a long time

Icy Conj isn't the greatest set for pve. Would definitely recommend swapping to whorl when you get the chance. Solid set especially now that it procs even if the enemy dies. Only issue is the st DoT is really really weak. But that is mostly offset by the whirlpool ripping shreds off anything that walks in it.

Tannus15

Frost warden builds (double ice staff) are legit dps that currently hits like a truck. It's doing very well on live and will be stronger on PTS.

I get that the frost warden crowd want to lean more into the frost theme, but since the change to frost reach and the frost bite set and now a frost themed trials set, warden frost builds are in a very good place.

ESO_Nightingale

Tannus15 wrote: »

Frost warden builds (double ice staff) are legit dps that currently hits like a truck. It's doing very well on live and will be stronger on PTS.

I get that the frost warden crowd want to lean more into the frost theme, but since the change to frost reach and the frost bite set and now a frost themed trials set, warden frost builds are in a very good place.

yeah, in pve it's definitely viable, it's just that we really lack more viable frost damage skills which is the main point of what we're talking about in pve, that's something we've wanted more of for years. pvp is a different story which is in a really awful state.

DarcyMardin

Warden is my favorite class, and, like many others, I’ve been dreaming of a powerful frost warden for years.

Please, ZOS, make it happen!

auz

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

auz wrote: »

I wonder why they didn't show the chucking bird spammable in the clip?

Why would you use that spammable when it's insanely slow, and the proc condition for off balance makes no sense?

What if they were faster Ice Birds that shattered on impact hurting nearby enemies, that would be fun

That would make way more sense.

I can't imagine throwing birds, ice or not, ever making sense. A good frost spammable like in the clip would have been great.

ESO_Nightingale

auz wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

auz wrote: »

I wonder why they didn't show the chucking bird spammable in the clip?

Why would you use that spammable when it's insanely slow, and the proc condition for off balance makes no sense?

What if they were faster Ice Birds that shattered on impact hurting nearby enemies, that would be fun

That would make way more sense.

I can't imagine throwing birds, ice or not, ever making sense. A good frost spammable like in the clip would have been great.

frost reach is pretty damn good. you can't use anything other than an ice staff with it, but it's at least a frost damage spammable i suppose.

Mr_Stach

I think in that lies the issue, there are tools that do X so Warden doesn't need more X.

But it's not just about fitting everything into the Square Hole, it's about distinct choices.

Warden is supposed to excel in Frost Damage but ultimately there's really only 1 Frost Damage Skill in their skill tree that is ever used.

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I think in that lies the issue, there are tools that do X so Warden doesn't need more X.

But it's not just about fitting everything into the Square Hole, it's about distinct choices.

Warden is supposed to excel in Frost Damage but ultimately there's really only 1 Frost Damage Skill in their skill tree that is ever used.

Yeah, wardens being referred to as "the masters of ice" in the pts notes was a bit frustrating. I wish our DPS kit really reflected that because 1 DPS skill and 2 passives really doesn't make the class feel like the "master of ice" i don't really think being a bit better than other classes at something makes it a master when it's own representation isn't very much.

SEINTDARKNES

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I think in that lies the issue, there are tools that do X so Warden doesn't need more X.

But it's not just about fitting everything into the Square Hole, it's about distinct choices.

Warden is supposed to excel in Frost Damage but ultimately there's really only 1 Frost Damage Skill in their skill tree that is ever used.

Yeah that's the same problem i see, we get some options and some indirect buffs but for example those same buffs to frost damage necros can use it too, we need more identity inside the class and we need more options to make frostdens a thing with in the options warden class give.

ESO_Nightingale

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I think in that lies the issue, there are tools that do X so Warden doesn't need more X.

But it's not just about fitting everything into the Square Hole, it's about distinct choices.

Warden is supposed to excel in Frost Damage but ultimately there's really only 1 Frost Damage Skill in their skill tree that is ever used.

Yeah that's the same problem i see, we get some options and some indirect buffs but for example those same buffs to frost damage necros can use it too, we need more identity inside the class and we need more options to make frostdens a thing with in the options warden class give.

i wonder if they'll touch frozen retreat, probably not seeing as the problems we've been bringing up are mainly with the skills that were actually changed.

Mr_Stach

I really wish we could see some data on Ability Usage for the Winters Embrace line for the general public. Then possibly we could see how much people do or don't use skills like Frozen Gate across the different activities.

SEINTDARKNES

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I really wish we could see some data on Ability Usage for the Winters Embrace line for the general public. Then possibly we could see how much people do or don't use skills like Frozen Gate across the different activities.

That's a really nice way to see if a skill is used or not if not why not? And make some buffs to these skills.

For example I don't think a lot of people use expansive frost because you don't need a big area of effect, at worse you will cast the hability 1 more time so i don't see the point on using expansive frost.

Mr_Stach

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

For example I don't think a lot of people use expansive frost because you don't need a big area of effect, at worse you will cast the hability 1 more time so i don't see the point on using expansive frost.

You don't want to bark up that tree, I've had so many healers crucify me over suggesting reworking Expansive Frost Cloak, but if they say just gave the range to Ice Fortress and made the other morph something interesting like being melee'd while cloak is active chills the attacker and reduces their movement speed by 30% , I'd be down for that

SEINTDARKNES

Mr_Stach wrote: »

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

For example I don't think a lot of people use expansive frost because you don't need a big area of effect, at worse you will cast the hability 1 more time so i don't see the point on using expansive frost.

You don't want to bark up that tree, I've had so many healers crucify me over suggesting reworking Expansive Frost Cloak, but if they say just gave the range to Ice Fortress and made the other morph something interesting like being melee'd while cloak is active chills the attacker and reduces their movement speed by 30% , I'd be down for that

It's curious because ice fortress have enough range to make it work in any trial or dungeon but you say maybe just make ice fortress have more range and change expansive frost.

Necrotech_Master

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

auz wrote: »

I wonder why they didn't show the chucking bird spammable in the clip?

Why would you use that spammable when it's insanely slow, and the proc condition for off balance makes no sense?

i would agree with this, ive tried using the bird and it just feels super slow and kludgy (kind of like elemental weapon from the psijic line, tried it and didnt like it)

i definitely plan on replacing icy conjurer on my mag warden with whorl of the depths, while icy conjurer is good for single target dmg, it only affects 1 target and if that target dies early its on cooldown for a long time

Icy Conj isn't the greatest set for pve. Would definitely recommend swapping to whorl when you get the chance. Solid set especially now that it procs even if the enemy dies. Only issue is the st DoT is really really weak. But that is mostly offset by the whirlpool ripping shreds off anything that walks in it.

that was the plan, icy conjurer is not bad, its decent dmg compared to the few other ice themed sets that are out there (i used to use winterborn but that felt way too weak after the scaling changes)

icy conjurer still currently adds on avg 3000-4000 dps (without crits), but only against the target it procs on, and because it procs on minor debuff application, you can passively proc it with the vines that apply minor lifesteal on enemies that hit you (as well as working with the rest of my gear because it can also proc ice furnace too, which adds another 1100 dmg per tick and occasional burning status effect)

the whorl of depths definitely looks a lot better by comparison (as it also has the minor slayer buff too in addition to the dmg)

Vaoh

Oh yes we remember, the Morrowind trailer guy casting frost mage spells which do not exist on the Warden class

It was a super hype chapter though. Back then it was nothing but excitement for chapters

Mr_Stach

Watching over the entire video, it only thing that actually made it to the abilities was the Bear. We didn't get the Frost Bolt thing or the Big Ice Shell Move, that would have actually been a cool ability. You might be able to argue the big AoE Frost Blast was an Amped up Northern Storm, but still there was some missed potential for sure