So we have to have global achievements because....

FluffWit

The servers can't handle tracking all our different characters achievements.

Which begs the question.... why on earth did you sell me TEN extra character slots if the servers couldn't handle it?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

SammyKhajit

An excellent question, but one which will not be answered.

Xarc

Maybe for you to play different classes / races ?

ApoAlaia

A better question would be:

Now that achievements are account-wide thus doing away with this particular database hurdle, may I please have another 10 character slots?

tonyblack

I was under the impression the main reason was to advance their mantra “play the way you want”, performance just a bonus. How having more characters contradict AwA? If anything it actually allows you to play characters you want to play with (or have to because your group need that specific class) while still progressing towards certain goal. It would be more viable than ever to play on different characters next patch.

Kesstryl

If they would decouple NPC reactions as you pass by from world saving achievements and set them to flag from quest completion, then I could play the way I want. Right now, your level 3 alt will be hailed the savior of Tamriel everywhere before you even start a single thing because those NPC reactions are achievement tied. It breaks immersion and causes confusion in the narrative for alt characters. Also certain achievement only quests are blocked on alts. They will only be able to be done once ever. One example, Count Ravenwatch's epilogue in Markarth. You will never talk to him again, ever. They need to fix these things, then some of us who came here for an Elder Scrolls experience (who played previous TES games) can still play the way we want. Until then, it kills immersion and the way I can replay an alt. So I agree, my extra characters were a waste of money.

Had I known that my alts would be ripped of their souls so that the entire game world is seeing me the player and not Reynild the hero of the Greymoor stories, Kesstryl the Vestige who stopped the Planemeld, Talks With Trees the argonian who helped a god regain his powers in Vvardenfell, Varla the dark elf who saved Sotha Sil in Clockwork City, etc etc, then immersion is destroyed and the 4th wall has been broken cripplingly in an RPG (a.k.a ROLE PLAYING GAME).

Flameweaver1951

I don’t play the game to get achievements, if I get them that’s good, but it’s no the “be all, end all” as far as I’m concerned. However, if global achievements stop any of my characters from fully completing a quest line, then that’s “bad, very very bad” and needs to be fixed.

tmbrinks

Flameweaver1951 wrote: »

I don’t play the game to get achievements, if I get them that’s good, but it’s no the “be all, end all” as far as I’m concerned. However, if global achievements stop any of my characters from fully completing a quest line, then that’s “bad, very very bad” and needs to be fixed.

There are a few quests that are broken (I think they're mostly the epilogue quests that are at the ends of the "year long stories" that require the achievements from both the chapter and the DLC to unlock)

However, your brand new level 3 character can enter a story zone, be hailed as the hero who saved them.... and then do the questline to save them.

LesserCircle

We have to have global achievements because it's a good quality if life improvement.

I understand where most people come from, some use achievements to track progress and other treat each character as it's own thing. But the vast majority of players if you ask in polls are in favour of this change.

I can't use or play alts because I feel like I'm just losing my time as my main character should be the one getting those achievements, this change will solve that completely.

Also I see achievements as something being done by me not my characters.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

LesserCircle wrote: »

We have to have global achievements because it's a good quality if life improvement.

I understand where most people come from, some use achievements to track progress and other treat each character as it's own thing. But the vast majority of players if you ask in polls are in favour of this change.

I can't use or play alts because I feel like I'm just losing my time as my main character should be the one getting those achievements, this change will solve that completely.

Also I see achievements as something being done by me not my characters.

Well this poll says different.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/598740/should-zos-delay-account-wide-achievements-until-june/p1

This is not about just achievements.
Our "Alt" identities are being wiped.
Besides achievements, it about NPC dialogs, dungeons and delvs marked as completed, some even locked out to alts, zone maps completely filled as explored even with LV3 toon, quest lines broken or unavailable, and so much more.
This is NOT a good QoL for everyone.

Jim_Pipp

FluffWit wrote: »

The servers can't handle tracking all our different characters achievements.

Which begs the question.... why on earth did you sell me TEN extra character slots if the servers couldn't handle it?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I always imagined ESO would keep growing as long as it was profitable, but if they are so desperate for server space that they have to remove a roleplay element the game was designed around... I wonder how many more expansions the ESO servers can take?... I'm not against optional AWA, but lot's of people liked the current system, many more dislike the new implementation, and I'm not sure a healthy game would make these desperate changes.

IsharaMeradin

I'm taking this as an opportunity to take stock of my characters and remove any that I do not play with, that I never could get a good grasp of their class, or only had to take advantage of various events back when I had more time to play. And in return, they're being replaced only by the exact number needed to hold on to the materials that cannot go into the craft bag until the next ESO+ trial.

This leaves me with two characters who I enjoy playing with and who I want to see as the achievement earners for my account. And yes, I will loose some progress on achievements or loose some altogether. But I am okay with that.

AcadianPaladin

I'm a fan of account wide stuff as it suits my playstyle.

Longer answer: My characters actually 'are' each other. I've been playing the same little wood elf since 2007 (Oblivion at that time), through Skyrim and into ESO. She mastered time travel long ago so chronology/era-hopping is of no concern to her. She wakes up in the morning and decides whether to grab her staves or bows and moves among the differing versions of herself (magplar, magsorc, bowsorc, magward…) as easily as she changes hairstyles or costumes. Each version of her looks identical and has only minimal different modifiers to her base name (Buffy). So the more account-wide stuff the better and more consistent things are.

EdmondDontes

...because those are the achievements the player has earned. Toons are just tools the player is using to get those achievements. Achievements are player/account based not toon based.

I think this is a much more sensible way to do it.

DreamsUnderStars

FluffWit wrote: »

The servers can't handle tracking all our different characters achievements.

Which begs the question.... why on earth did you sell me TEN extra character slots if the servers couldn't handle it?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

For the same reason they sell skyshard completes and other such "convenience" items?

Also because achievements don't need to be character based. If we cleared a veteran trial or whatever then why shouldn't we get the bragging rights on all our characters? It's not like the characters do the content without any input from us.

redspecter23

FluffWit wrote: »

The servers can't handle tracking all our different characters achievements.

Which begs the question.... why on earth did you sell me TEN extra character slots if the servers couldn't handle it?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

This is exactly the reason they won't sell us anymore currently. Because they can't sell us anymore slots and they are unwilling to explore class change, that means we aren't getting any new classes until they fix this issue, which they are trying to do.

The issue isn't necessarily that the server can't handle it now. It's that it can't handle any future changes or updates. If you want more character slots or classes later on, ZOS has determined this is the way to allow it.

Many people were quite upset that there wasn't a new class announced this year. This might be the back end work that is required before that can happen and may be the reason why a new class has been put off for so long.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

EdmondDontes wrote: »

...because those are the achievements the player has earned. Toons are just tools the player is using to get those achievements. Achievements are player/account based not toon based.

I think this is a much more sensible way to do it.

But what is not sensible is NPC dialogs not replying correctly, zone maps markers all filled in, quest line broke or unplayable, NPC's not appearing, double NPC queens appearing on throne, my lawful/good templar now greeted as mass murderer.
Many of use DO play toons as individuals and they have different personalities and goals.
Destroying replayability is not a "sensible" way to move forward.
Just my 2 drakes.
Huzzah!

deleted221106-002999

FluffWit wrote: »

Which begs the question.... why on earth did you sell me TEN extra character slots if the servers couldn't handle it?

You could ask for a refund on any of those slots not yet used.

If I continue at all post-character apocalyspe then any extra drones will be craft mules.

Even with the recent mayhem event I'd usually check a newer character's achievements to see what they're missing but this time around - meh - there was just no point.

Araneae6537

In other MMORPGs one can have as many or more characters. Achievements are accountwide, with meta achievements (completing every variation of an encounter, complete on every class, etc.) and rewards as well. Each character also has their progression through stories and maps tracked and little dopamine dings and pop-ups for exploring and completing things anew. There are also tons of items, materials, currencies, etc. and an ever expanding map and new systems are added… And at least one game does this without any sub or even sales beyond expansions…

I was happy to pay for ESO+ as well as chapters/expansions because I thought that’s why we got regular additions of content in dungeons and zones and systems… Now I’m told my character’s souls must be sacrificed? For… it doesn’t even matter to me for what. No, just no.

Kiralyn2000

LesserCircle wrote: »

I can't use or play alts because I feel like I'm just losing my time as my main character should be the one getting those achievements, this change will solve that completely.

And others will have less desire to play alts because they aren't separate.

Hard to reconcile the two viewpoints.

peacenote

LesserCircle wrote: »

We have to have global achievements because it's a good quality if life improvement.

I understand where most people come from, some use achievements to track progress and other treat each character as it's own thing. But the vast majority of players if you ask in polls are in favour of this change.

I can't use or play alts because I feel like I'm just losing my time as my main character should be the one getting those achievements, this change will solve that completely.

Also I see achievements as something being done by me not my characters.

I feel urged to clarify that yes, the vast majority of players want the ability to globally track which achievements have been "done" per account, and another big majority want account wide titles which is incorrectly being viewed as inseparable from AwA to obtain ... including the folks who want to retain character progress and have the game world NPCs acknowledge characters accurately based on whether they have completed quests or not! I don't think the people who want these things fixed are anti-AwA in most cases; achievements and character progress should be decoupled and character progress should be easier to follow outside of achievements. I want to know that I've completed hard mode dungeon xyz from an achievement standpoint. I also want to know if I've been in dungeon xyz on character abc based on how I'm progressing in the story line for a particular character. We should be able to do both! That data doesn't have to live in the achievement table. So, stating or showing data that most people are in favor of AwA doesn't negate that many people also want character tracking. Most polls aren't nuanced enough to ask about these options; they simply ask about AwA and of course most people say yes. There are a lot less people in favor of the current implementation on PTS, especially if you split them into "I 100% love it!" and "It has flaws and I'd rather they be fixed but I can live with it."

Anyway, this topic will be closed very quickly if we keep gong down that path, but to answer the OP's question I suspect that ZOS didn't have or didn't do advanced data modeling/load testing and provided the character slots before the growth occurred and the space/performance issues from this particular area of the game became apparent. I remember when I spent a bunch of money to install 128MB of RAM on my home built desktop computer; it seemed like a lot of memory at the time.

Araneae6537

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

LesserCircle wrote: »

I can't use or play alts because I feel like I'm just losing my time as my main character should be the one getting those achievements, this change will solve that completely.

And others will have less desire to play alts because they aren't separate.

Hard to reconcile the two viewpoints.

Every other game that I know of tracks both, so why not?

Amottica

FluffWit wrote: »

The servers can't handle tracking all our different characters achievements.

Which begs the question.... why on earth did you sell me TEN extra character slots if the servers couldn't handle it?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

This is not the case and Zenimax has not said it was.

What is the case is with account-based achievements the server will have less information to track which would reduce the server load. That is far from "the servers can't handle" this.

Just keeping it in the correct perspective.

CombatCoati

LesserCircle wrote: »

We have to have global achievements because it's a good quality if life improvement.

I understand where most people come from, some use achievements to track progress and other treat each character as it's own thing. But the vast majority of players if you ask in polls are in favour of this change.

I can't use or play alts because I feel like I'm just losing my time as my main character should be the one getting those achievements, this change will solve that completely.

Also I see achievements as something being done by me not my characters.

The thing is, not only players use(d) achievements to track things, the game itself did, with nothing else but the achievements in place to store many things, including dolmens, delves, world bosses, museum quest items and more. And that is the problem, not the introduction of AWA per se.

See, almost nobody in the AWA feedback thread in the PTS forum is against AWAs (in fact I can't remember seeing anyone in all the more 2.400 posts, but I might have missed something). It's just the way they are going to be implemented with loosing many ways to track per character progress that me and many others dislike (apart from some still existing bugs).

deleted221106-002999

Amottica wrote: »

FluffWit wrote: »

The servers can't handle tracking all our different characters achievements.

Which begs the question.... why on earth did you sell me TEN extra character slots if the servers couldn't handle it?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

This is not the case and Zenimax has not said it was.

What is the case is with account-based achievements the server will have less information to track which would reduce the server load. That is far from "the servers can't handle" this.

Just keeping it in the correct perspective.

From: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7529878#Comment_7529878

(bolded section for clarity by me)

nightstrike wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Essentially the game is a database. Our characters are constantly requesting information from the server for various things which include our inventory when we look at it and our achievements for times we look at it or other things that require achievements.

By reducing how much information that queries go through it reduces the load on the server which in effect improves performance.

That's not how databases work, and that's not how achievements are implemented. First, they are loaded when you login and updated with events, not every time you open the window. Second, it is infinitesimal compared to all the other data that moves around (hello guild sales!)

On the database side, there are cache layers, multiple indexes, backend optimizers, different kinds of optimized views... there are so many facets to a good database design that simply deleting a few records is like throwing a pebble into the ocean. And any database like this will be monotonically increasing, so this is, at best, a pebble thrown into an ocean that's rising (hi, melting ice caps!)

Just keeping it in the correct perspective.

spartaxoxo

Amottica wrote: »

FluffWit wrote: »

The servers can't handle tracking all our different characters achievements.

Which begs the question.... why on earth did you sell me TEN extra character slots if the servers couldn't handle it?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

This is not the case and Zenimax has not said it was.

What is the case is with account-based achievements the server will have less information to track which would reduce the server load. That is far from "the servers can't handle" this.

Just keeping it in the correct perspective.

They said they had to do it to keep the servers performant as they continue to add new ones. So I do think the servers can't handle it.

Gaebriel0410

Account wide achievements is a great QoL improvement. I think the server performance is more like a bonus on top of that, though I don't expect it to be actually significant.

I love making new characters and I don't feel at all as if their 'personality gets wiped'. They're my characters, that can't be wiped by something as arbitrary as consolidatng achievements.

Tornaad

So we have to have global achievements because ... in the 8 or so years since the game has been released it has naturally become much bigger and more complex than it started, and that is one of many things they are doing to try to make it run better as they go through and optimize how it runs.

Araneae6537

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

Account wide achievements is a great QoL improvement. I think the server performance is more like a bonus on top of that, though I don't expect it to be actually significant.

I love making new characters and I don't feel at all as if their 'personality gets wiped'. They're my characters, that can't be wiped by something as arbitrary as consolidatng achievements.

But as far as the world of Tamriel is concerned — it won’t matter where your character has been and the choices they made as all will be treated the same. And for me at least, I enjoy evolving my characters’ stories with what they do and the interactions they have in the world. That is what RPGs have always been for me, from tabletop to single-player to MMO, a collaborative story-creating first and foremost.

Lazarus_Rising

i welcome it so much. I despise the current system so i never wanted to switch of my main because of it. Now i rather want to play other characters actually

Beilin_Balreis_Colcan

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this new system guarantee that the only way you can ever play an alt character from scratch is to delete all your characters, then create and play the alt? Doesn't this make account-wide achievements a bit pointless?

If I've misunderstood, I'm happy to be corrected on this.