So we have to have global achievements because....

tmbrinks

vsrs_au wrote: »

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this new system guarantee that the only way you can ever play an alt character from scratch is to delete all your characters, then create and play the alt? Doesn't this make account-wide achievements a bit pointless?

If I've misunderstood, I'm happy to be corrected on this.

You'll be able to do (most of) the quests still, but many NPCs will interact with you like you've already accomplished them (with their interactions and random voice lines)

And then only if you delete the main character before ever logging into the alt character... otherwise they'll instantly get all the achievements your main has.

redspecter23

vsrs_au wrote: »

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this new system guarantee that the only way you can ever play an alt character from scratch is to delete all your characters, then create and play the alt? Doesn't this make account-wide achievements a bit pointless?

If I've misunderstood, I'm happy to be corrected on this.

The achievements should be locked to the account even if you delete all your characters. The achievements should still remain. Whether or not that's pointless depends on how you look at it.

Sylvermynx

Y'know, I already don't even see (or hear) the fluff lines about what my characters have done. I have dialog off, subtitles on, but I actually cannot recall the last time I saw a subtitle pertaining to the game's MQ, or any of the Cadwell quests I did on my mains - or really any quest lines I've completed on alts I play all the time. I don't know if that means I never get close enough to any NPCs for them to say anything, or if I simply filter it out.

dzugarueb17_ESO

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Y'know, I already don't even see (or hear) the fluff lines about what my characters have done. I have dialog off, subtitles on, but I actually cannot recall the last time I saw a subtitle pertaining to the game's MQ, or any of the Cadwell quests I did on my mains - or really any quest lines I've completed on alts I play all the time. I don't know if that means I never get close enough to any NPCs for them to say anything, or if I simply filter it out.

So why do we have those interactions at all? Lets scrap that, anyway its bugged now. And while we're at there, why even have voiceovers? Personally I read so fast they have time to say maybe two words before I click [E].

Agenericname

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Y'know, I already don't even see (or hear) the fluff lines about what my characters have done. I have dialog off, subtitles on, but I actually cannot recall the last time I saw a subtitle pertaining to the game's MQ, or any of the Cadwell quests I did on my mains - or really any quest lines I've completed on alts I play all the time. I don't know if that means I never get close enough to any NPCs for them to say anything, or if I simply filter it out.

It may be because you have voice off. Im not sure how the subtitles work. I hear them quite a bit. "So, youre the one that saved the queen? You don't look like much."

I started during Morrowind. Until somewhere around level 30 I thought it was where the game started. It wasnt until later that I realized it wasnt, made an alt, and started it in order. I recently made a new character with a friend. We got to Auridon and they picked up every quest they saw with a story icon. You can imagine how that went. We quit and went back to our mains.

ZOS does a lot of things well, a coherent story isnt one of them. A lot of people arent really happy about how this implementation is rolling out, Im one of them, I'll miss the "make the story make sense" mini game.

Sylvermynx

Agenericname wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Y'know, I already don't even see (or hear) the fluff lines about what my characters have done. I have dialog off, subtitles on, but I actually cannot recall the last time I saw a subtitle pertaining to the game's MQ, or any of the Cadwell quests I did on my mains - or really any quest lines I've completed on alts I play all the time. I don't know if that means I never get close enough to any NPCs for them to say anything, or if I simply filter it out.

It may be because you have voice off. Im not sure how the subtitles work. I hear them quite a bit. "So, youre the one that saved the queen? You don't look like much."

I started during Morrowind. Until somewhere around level 30 I thought it was where the game started. It wasnt until later that I realized it wasnt, made an alt, and started it in order. I recently made a new character with a friend. We got to Auridon and they picked up every quest they saw with a story icon. You can imagine how that went. We quit and went back to our mains.

ZOS does a lot of things well, a coherent story isnt one of them. A lot of people arent really happy about how this implementation is rolling out, Im one of them, I'll miss the "make the story make sense" mini game.

Perhaps that sort of "minor voiceover" isn't subtitled. Works for me if so, I just dislike VA to the point I can't stand it being on.

I too started in MW, but I'd read the forum for about 6 months prior to starting the game, plus I looked stuff up on google, so yeah, got off the boat in Seyda Neen (and boy THAT was a rush of nostalgia for TES III!), picked up some odds and ends, got the two Vivec wayshrines and headed for Davon's Watch (first character was Dunmer NB - had to turn her into a crafter until I got somewhat better at the game, like 2 years later.... I bought Summerset right away for jewelry crafting, and made my mains Redguard wardens ASAP....)

kargen27

EdmondDontes wrote: »

...because those are the achievements the player has earned. Toons are just tools the player is using to get those achievements. Achievements are player/account based not toon based.

I think this is a much more sensible way to do it.

You can't earn the achievement without the character and the character can't earn the achievement without you. It was/is a team effort. Your other characters shouldn't be rewarded for things they did not help achieve.

Of course that will all go away with the change. Now no character will earn an achievement. Sure you will see the name of the character that finished the last little bit but they didn't earn it.
Would have been better if ZoS just removed all achievements and been done with it.

Sylvermynx

kargen27 wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

...because those are the achievements the player has earned. Toons are just tools the player is using to get those achievements. Achievements are player/account based not toon based.

I think this is a much more sensible way to do it.

You can't earn the achievement without the character and the character can't earn the achievement without you. It was/is a team effort. Your other characters shouldn't be rewarded for things they did not help achieve.

Of course that will all go away with the change. Now no character will earn an achievement. Sure you will see the name of the character that finished the last little bit but they didn't earn it.
Would have been better if ZoS just removed all achievements and been done with it.

This is true. I've never had any use for achievements - silly kindergarten gold star stuff. I'm not fussed with this because I have ZERO use for achievements, and I don't track stuff on my 60 alts using that metric. I do understand that those who are unhappy in the extreme about this have "right" on their side - but it doesn't seem that ZOS is budging here.

Very sad.

kargen27

Sylvermynx wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

...because those are the achievements the player has earned. Toons are just tools the player is using to get those achievements. Achievements are player/account based not toon based.

I think this is a much more sensible way to do it.

You can't earn the achievement without the character and the character can't earn the achievement without you. It was/is a team effort. Your other characters shouldn't be rewarded for things they did not help achieve.

Of course that will all go away with the change. Now no character will earn an achievement. Sure you will see the name of the character that finished the last little bit but they didn't earn it.
Would have been better if ZoS just removed all achievements and been done with it.

This is true. I've never had any use for achievements - silly kindergarten gold star stuff. I'm not fussed with this because I have ZERO use for achievements, and I don't track stuff on my 60 alts using that metric. I do understand that those who are unhappy in the extreme about this have "right" on their side - but it doesn't seem that ZOS is budging here.

Very sad.

I used it as a way to do something different for a while. Going for master fisher on another character takes me to zones I might not have been in a while. If I got home early and had an hour or so to kill before a progression group gets started I could hop on an alt for a while and maybe do something I hadn't done in a while. Getting the achievements isn't something I would grind really. Just sometimes when I had nothing in particular in mind I would log onto an alternate character and pick an achievement to work on. Not that I care a lot about the achievement it to me is a bit more fun with a goal to chase even if I don't chase it seriously.
I did want to finish the trophy achievements on my main as I have been chasing those off and on since day one. I have three left where I need one trophy and one where I need two trophies. When the change happens as soon as I log into alternate characters the achievements will be considered done and will be shown as finished by a character that happened to find the one item needed.
I'm guessing I will get over it fairly quick but for now I keep hoping they somehow allow both. And if it does help with performance then all will be forgiven.

Sylvermynx

kargen27 wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

...because those are the achievements the player has earned. Toons are just tools the player is using to get those achievements. Achievements are player/account based not toon based.

I think this is a much more sensible way to do it.

You can't earn the achievement without the character and the character can't earn the achievement without you. It was/is a team effort. Your other characters shouldn't be rewarded for things they did not help achieve.

Of course that will all go away with the change. Now no character will earn an achievement. Sure you will see the name of the character that finished the last little bit but they didn't earn it.
Would have been better if ZoS just removed all achievements and been done with it.

This is true. I've never had any use for achievements - silly kindergarten gold star stuff. I'm not fussed with this because I have ZERO use for achievements, and I don't track stuff on my 60 alts using that metric. I do understand that those who are unhappy in the extreme about this have "right" on their side - but it doesn't seem that ZOS is budging here.

Very sad.

I used it as a way to do something different for a while. Going for master fisher on another character takes me to zones I might not have been in a while. If I got home early and had an hour or so to kill before a progression group gets started I could hop on an alt for a while and maybe do something I hadn't done in a while. Getting the achievements isn't something I would grind really. Just sometimes when I had nothing in particular in mind I would log onto an alternate character and pick an achievement to work on. Not that I care a lot about the achievement it to me is a bit more fun with a goal to chase even if I don't chase it seriously.
I did want to finish the trophy achievements on my main as I have been chasing those off and on since day one. I have three left where I need one trophy and one where I need two trophies. When the change happens as soon as I log into alternate characters the achievements will be considered done and will be shown as finished by a character that happened to find the one item needed.
I'm guessing I will get over it fairly quick but for now I keep hoping they somehow allow both. And if it does help with performance then all will be forgiven.

Yeah, if it can fix performance issues for those who have them, that's a very good thing (I don't have performance issues, outside of satellite lag - which isn't fixable unless I decide to immolate myself on the altar of "live in a city" - and I can guarantee you that's not going to happen any time soon).

And as said, I really don't have any personal thing with this - I don't pay any attention to achievements, and every alt on my accounts is someone I know to the bone, and I know what each of them has done, and where I left each of them when I log onto them again (even if it's been quite a while).

Because I have that sort of mind for games. I know others are not so blessed, so yes, I'm very sorry that ZOS has gone all heavy handed in the name of "it's going to fix performance". It might - but I'm not particularly sanguine about that.

Amottica

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

FluffWit wrote: »

The servers can't handle tracking all our different characters achievements.

Which begs the question.... why on earth did you sell me TEN extra character slots if the servers couldn't handle it?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

This is not the case and Zenimax has not said it was.

What is the case is with account-based achievements the server will have less information to track which would reduce the server load. That is far from "the servers can't handle" this.

Just keeping it in the correct perspective.

From: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7529878#Comment_7529878

(bolded section for clarity by me)

nightstrike wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Essentially the game is a database. Our characters are constantly requesting information from the server for various things which include our inventory when we look at it and our achievements for times we look at it or other things that require achievements.

By reducing how much information that queries go through it reduces the load on the server which in effect improves performance.

That's not how databases work, and that's not how achievements are implemented. First, they are loaded when you login and updated with events, not every time you open the window. Second, it is infinitesimal compared to all the other data that moves around (hello guild sales!)

On the database side, there are cache layers, multiple indexes, backend optimizers, different kinds of optimized views... there are so many facets to a good database design that simply deleting a few records is like throwing a pebble into the ocean. And any database like this will be monotonically increasing, so this is, at best, a pebble thrown into an ocean that's rising (hi, melting ice caps!)

Just keeping it in the correct perspective.

The first sentence that is bolded may or may not be correct. It is a good guess. Regardless, none of it suggests my statement is incorrect. It could not since my statement is 100% accurate.

Once again, Zenimax has not stated the servers cannot handle the character-based achievements which is the premise of this thread. That is the correct perspective.

newtinmpls

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

I always imagined ESO would keep growing as long as it was profitable,.

Maybe they are starting to see a downturn

Monte_Cristo

ApoAlaia wrote: »

A better question would be:

Now that achievements are account-wide thus doing away with this particular database hurdle, may I please have another 10 character slots?

Yes please.

SerafinaWaterstar

They are doing this as it <may> have a slight improvement on the performance of the database.

If that really is the case (I personally think its PR justification after the fact) then players should be much more concerned about the company’s ability to use databases and database management.

Think on it - this is removing a quite small (in comparison) data demand - but with new dlcs & chapters incoming, they will be adding more back - what gets nuked next?

Psiion

Greetings,

As there is already an official Feedback thread, we've gone ahead and closed this thread to consolidate feedback to one place for the team to review. If anyone would like to continue discussion, or leave feedback on the upcoming Account Wide Achievements please feel free to do so on the thread here.