Yep, Another Achievement Poll: Please READ CAREFULLY!

Kesstryl · February 2022

BOTH (Share Titles and More): I want an account-wide view and per-character achievement tracking. Reduce grind by having everything tied to achievements be account-wide (titles, furnishing shopping, etc.) Please don't erase any per-character data and please allow it to still be tracked going forward.

I'm ok for others playing how they want, let me play how I want and keep all the progress on my individual characters. And don't assign random characters as achieving those achievements, let me pick which character to display as having achieved it. The more info we are gettting from PTS, the messier this is getting. I don't want my individual character achievements taken away from me. I'd be fine with a global achievement tab, but don't take away what we already have.

peacenote · February 2022

BOTH (Share Titles and More): I want an account-wide view and per-character achievement tracking. Reduce grind by having everything tied to achievements be account-wide (titles, furnishing shopping, etc.) Please don't erase any per-character data and please allow it to still be tracked going forward.

Dalsinthus wrote: »

The options are way too convoluted and confusing, there is no question that the poll options address, and there’s loaded language in the options like having achievements “obliterated”. All of this makes it hard to infer much from this poll. It’s still interesting information but I sat this one out because the poll is not well constructed. Sorry op, I appreciate what you are trying to do here, I just disagree with the approach.

No need to be sorry! If you want to make a better one I'll be impressed and happily vote in it.

I honestly was not trying to make anything loaded. I was trying to make it clear that this isn't a "I want this or I don't" binary issue.

As far as the word obliterate, it's a strong word but I think it is accurate. People have posted, in threads other than this one, that they want the game to act like it knows it is one person behind all the characters, and that they don't want to have to re-do achievements, and they would not be happy with a solution that leaves the per character data. If that isn't wanting to obliterate per character data, I don't know what is. I literally saw someone post that they wanted the "achieved by" line removed from ZOS's current solution. I tried to properly represent that view because I do understand where folks are coming from with that. Some people who want account-wide achieves want a global view added on, and some want ONLY an account-wide view. Those are two very different things. People who want the -per character view erased are folks who don't want to be able to produce screenshots showing which character did what. They want to feel like an achievement is done for the account, never to be repeated again, if it was completed once.

What I've seen, roughly, is four stances × 2 paths for feelings about titles as cosmetic plus an "other" and an "I don't care." I tried to represent all of these while incorporating the results of the choice, particularly when it came to data deletion. Plus an "I want title sharing only" option because I think it is different to actively want an achievement outcome vs. only caring about titles but not caring at all about the achievement outcome.

The four stances are:

Some folks don't want achievements to change at all.
Some folks want to see an added view of account-wide achievements while preserving their character specific data.
Some folks like the hybrid view that ZOS is proposing.
Some folks want ONLY account data.

It's important to split out each view into preserving or sharing titles, because it significantly informs which stances could co-exist if ZOS tries to change what they released on PTS to appeal to more viewpoints.

Anyway, I tried.

Delgent wrote: »

I chose Account ONLY, but if you give me a class change token, I'd be perfectly happy with leaving it the way it is.

As soon as the server opened, I rolled up my Templar. Now, almost 8 years later, I'm so sick of the Templar, but I play it chasing achievements. Then I'll play an alt for a bit, find some Motifs, have to put them in the bank so my Templar can see if he knows them...think about the fact that I'm wasting time on my alt and should be playing the Templar since there's so much he hasn't done yet...get frustrated, log off and play something else.

I still love ESO, but I don't like Templar play anymore. I guess if I can't have a class change token, then just lump everything together under Account, and I can play my alts to my hearts content without feeling like I'm wasting my time at some level. That's my frustration, I know many don't have this hangup...I do.

Your story really resonates with me, actually. I'm lucky enough to still love playing Templar, which was my first and main character always... but I love healing on the class. I much prefer to DPS on my sorc and my favorite tank is my necro tank. If healers ever fully get edged out of content... you know, I'd probably just quit, lol. I remember the moment I accidentally learned a really expensive motif on one of my alts. I was really, really upset.

My understanding is that what's on PTS doesn't apply to motifs, so it doesn't really address your perspective. Or others who have similar stories. And it IS a good argument for pure account wide everything. It's actually why, although for many years I sided with the folks who wanted to preserve titles, I do think at this point they should be shared. Motifs, too. "Passing around the motifs" is also a mini-game that I do not enjoy. It makes little sense at this point that motifs are character-specific when styles are account-wide.

Reading through everyone's stories has made me realize that I really don't care about forcing my characters to each earn the things specifically anymore. All I really want is the history... to be able to smile when I see my sorc did something in 2016, and to get a pop up when I do it later on my necro. But having to "swap" to my crafter to transmute or learn a motif or make a piece of furniture... is that really still necessary?

It almost makes me think, more and more, that ZOS really didn't understand what a lot of people wanted when they were asking for less grind and account-wide achievements. Because in many ways we're losing the history and keeping the grind, which is the WORST of both worlds...

silvereyes · February 2022

BOTH (Share Titles and More): I want an account-wide view and per-character achievement tracking. Reduce grind by having everything tied to achievements be account-wide (titles, furnishing shopping, etc.) Please don't erase any per-character data and please allow it to still be tracked going forward.

peacenote wrote: »

Because in many ways we're losing the history and keeping the grind, which is the WORST of both worlds...

This exactly. But of course, ZOS wants to keep those grinds. Mount training, Skyshard unlocks, motifs, skill line unlocks, research scrolls ... they make a bunch of money from that stuff.

Kelinmiriel · February 2022

BOTH (Share Titles and More): I want an account-wide view and per-character achievement tracking. Reduce grind by having everything tied to achievements be account-wide (titles, furnishing shopping, etc.) Please don't erase any per-character data and please allow it to still be tracked going forward.

What I'm honestly most concerned about at this point, is that it's way too broken to be fixed in time, and needs to be delayed. Also, that there is so little benefit to much of what has been combined, and so much that is being lost and can never be retrieved - which also means, can never be properly fixed after it goes live.

Do people who've "always wanted this" realize that they'll have to be doing more grinding in most cases, not less?

We used to get additional xp and skill line increases for doing things the first time on each character, which helped level each new one. For discovering new things. For earning new achievements. Some of those things just aren't going to be possible any more. Even the ones that might be possible, will be difficult to figure out which haven't been done yet on that character, because some of the zone guide is attached to achievements.

All of things I've heard people complain about most as being "too grindy", aren't included anyway, and some will be worse.

Lore books/Mages Guild Skill Line
Psijic skill line
Antiquities (will be slightly worse; achievements helped level this)
Sky shards
Skill points
Mount training
Undaunted skill line (has been restructured so dungeon achievements won't count anymore)
Crafting motifs (motif achievements will be account-wide, but crafting the different styles isn't)

Many people leveled their Undaunted skill line before by just running a lot of different dungeons, or doing pledges, or doing randoms. Now they will be encouraged to do Bolgrul's delve quests, which most of them will find a lot more grindy.

If I was doing this, AND it would really help the database (which I don't believe for a moment, and I've been programming since 1976) - I would roll it out gradually, in a way that would be carefully thought out and could be tested, and was non-destructive, so any issues could be addressed. Data can be destroyed/removed later. After it's gone, it cannot be re-created - especially when new information is being generated in the meantime that's never even saved in the first place.

I would do it like that because there are some things that could benefit from being account-wide, and be more sensible and less grindy. Monster trophies, for example (although increasing the drop rate for these would also help.)