PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

tomofhyrule

remosito wrote: »

out of curiosity: how are achieves like black market mogul, kill x beasties of type y. heal x in groups handled in the merge?

- they are summed up,
- highest is taken,
- first char logged in is taken even if later char has more


just to know if I have to prethink order of character loads post patch..

Based on what we’ve seen, the credit goes to the character with the earliest date on the achieve.

For the accumulation ones, it’ll add the numbers together as you log into them, and credit goes to the character who gets the last one in. If A has 95, B has 7, and C has 84 for a 100-thing achieve and you log in in the order A, B, C, then credit goes to B since that’s the one that crossed the mark.

FantasticFreddie

Very disappointed to see the update today that not only are they ramming AWA through, it is for "performance issues".

Well, remove a huge chunk of the replayability from the game and people will leave in droves.
I've lost 3 people from one trial team, and 4 from another. We are barely holding things together. I guess lowering the number of players will help fix the servers? Maybe that's their logic.

nightstrike

CP5 wrote: »

And performance is their key reason for it, regardless of what issues it may introduce.

They say that, but they say a lot of things that aren't entirely true.

The reality is that if achievements of characters are affecting their database, the problem is the database, not the achievements. They need a better DB designer.

nightstrike

Zezin wrote: »

It's coming this patch then, they just posted it in the website.

Edit: here's the link https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/61715

"This change also creates a whole new world of opportunities for your account and characters."

Exactly how does it do this? Near as I can tell, it only removes opportunity.

RaddlemanNumber7

Not logging in on 17 of my characters is starting to look more and more like the fun option.

Balthors

Post to delete

maximusrex45

Csleia wrote: »

typical response in this thread from someone who likes the change:
"this is great i dont have to play on alts anymore or do anything twice"

Link back to 5 unique posters that said this. Bet you can't.

etchedpixels

nightstrike wrote: »

Zezin wrote: »

It's coming this patch then, they just posted it in the website.

Edit: here's the link https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/61715

"This change also creates a whole new world of opportunities for your account and characters."

Exactly how does it do this? Near as I can tell, it only removes opportunity.

And introduces a vast load of unfixed bugs which no doubt won't get fixed in a hurry because we apparently all want a new card game more. Half of the people I played with have already left for Lost Ark. I guess theree will be a lot more following.

tomofhyrule

Well, I’m disappointed. I’d have hoped that—if performance issues were the goal—that they might have started with limiting things like glowy, particle-effect intense, hi-res texture mounts… but I guess limiting replayability for storytelling fans was eating up most of the compute cycles. Maybe if we’re lucky they’ll at least set a few more things to the character side so we don’t lose Melina or the Giant Cheese, but I think what we see is what we’re getting.

Ah well. My excitement for High Isle is almost gone. Maybe it’ll come back, but I know a bug-eyed ghost deer isn’t going to make me jump for early access anymore. Maybe they’ll announce something later that’ll catch my eye, but who knows.

At least I started this game trying to get all achievements on my main before I decided to branch out. I’ve really only got my main and a brand new baby secondary I’m running through his story, and then a bunch of rando alts I just used to farm dailies for motifs. At least I have warning to delete all of my randos so they don’t affect my achieves in any way. I’ll remake them to reserve the names for when I eventually get around to setting up their stories, but I’ll just have them live right at the tutorial exit so no achieves for them.

I wish we could have gotten a dev to address some of our concerns, but I’ve always seen the PTS as a way to retake screenshots I missed during my game rather than do major testing. Guess that is mostly what it is.

At this point, I just hope it goes smoothly. I’d hate for them to have to bring down the servers to manually fix achievement after this goes live if there is a story-breaking bug we haven’t caught (or worse, do a rollback after people have farmed the new dungeons). And I got hit with a major bug on both of the past two updates, so here’s hoping I can avoid going 3 for 3.

Mephit

This whole thread was a complete waste of everyone’s time, cos ZOS didn’t pay the slightest attention to it.

Suddenly this is for performance? They must think we are all stupid.

Just delete the thread ffs

nightstrike

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

Hey folks,

We have removed a few posts from this thread that were off topic and risked derailing the conversation. Thank you for your understanding.

Ryan, you censored an on topic post for being off topic, then you censored my post imploring you to stop censoring valid posts and deal with the problem. Hiding these issues won't fix them. Please stop censoring complaints you don't like. They are no less important. Clearly this is a divisive feature. Deal with that division, and you won't have to engage in censorship.

wolfie1.0.

Notice that there isn't a place we can comment on what they put out?

Zezin

nightstrike wrote: »

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

Hey folks,

We have removed a few posts from this thread that were off topic and risked derailing the conversation. Thank you for your understanding.

Ryan, you censored an on topic post for being off topic, then you censored my post imploring you to stop censoring valid posts and deal with the problem. Hiding these issues won't fix them. Please stop censoring complaints you don't like. They are no less important. Clearly this is a divisive feature. Deal with that division, and you won't have to engage in censorship.

He censored both sides tho hahaha

nightstrike

Mephit wrote: »

This whole thread was a complete waste of everyone’s time, cos ZOS didn’t pay the slightest attention to it.

Suddenly this is for performance? They must think we are all stupid.

Just delete the thread ffs

I would hope that nobody is stupid enough to fall for their silliness as the reason. Reduced loading times? Really? I don't buy it one bit.

Zezin

Could it possibly be that the cards for the card game are handled like achievements so that's why they want it implemented now?

Marcusorion1

I suspect the announcement was written previously and had little revision - if any - based on the current feedback except possibly the attention directed to logging in on each character. Consolidating achievement data to presumably a single file across all characters would in theory reduce the size of the database as stated.

I am always leary when claims include the word "may" ( may reduce loading screen times ) as it is non committal. Same as with the use of words that send most to the dictionary : "performant" - just to help save a few clicks, it means efficient.

I am happy about the Museum collection changes and looking forward to a proper Q & A in the near future regarding the multitude of concerns expressed in this and other threads on the matter.

Wolfpaw

Zezin wrote: »

It's coming this patch then, they just posted it in the website.

Edit: here's the link https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/61715

Good to see this should help improve performance a little.

tomofhyrule

Zezin wrote: »

Could it possibly be that the cards for the card game are handled like achievements so that's why they want it implemented now?

I’m sure that’s exactly what it is.

It further highlights the issues with the lack of a character-based database in addition to an account-based one, but it seems this is how they fixed it.

Again, I can only hope that it is as fixed as possible.

Maybe when I get home I can look through to see which achievements are ones that are story-relevant and should stay on the character side…

silvereyes

nightstrike wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

And performance is their key reason for it, regardless of what issues it may introduce.

They say that, but they say a lot of things that aren't entirely true.

The reality is that if achievements of characters are affecting their database, the problem is the database, not the achievements. They need a better DB designer.

Agreed.

I just don't understand their fixation with storage, of all things. If they are worried about index size, there's this little thing called partitioning that I think they may want to look into. It will make them a lot more scalable than just deleting data.

Saieden

nightstrike wrote: »

Mephit wrote: »

This whole thread was a complete waste of everyone’s time, cos ZOS didn’t pay the slightest attention to it.

Suddenly this is for performance? They must think we are all stupid.

Just delete the thread ffs

I would hope that nobody is stupid enough to fall for their silliness as the reason. Reduced loading times? Really? I don't buy it one bit.

Save achievement data client-side with a checksumed cache. It's so pathetically simple.

proprio.meb16_ESO

Ok, awa wont be posticipated...
But then all broken content must be addressed before it goes live... the fix of museum stuff is welcome but it's one of many... or will zos release broken content and fix it on the way?

What about delve completion issue, random encounters, elseweyr two queens and other stuff (should recover one of the numerous lists that have been made in these 62 pages).

Saieden

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Zezin wrote: »

It's coming this patch then, they just posted it in the website.

Edit: here's the link https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/61715

Good to see this should help improve performance a little.

The only performance improvement will be the droves years-long players leaving the game.

snoopyuob14_ESO

This is one of the things I've wanted most for the longest time! I'm so happy!

IldaraFathryon

Not sure which stage of grief this is going to correspond to, but is there/are there any addons we can install prior to release of the update that might preserve some of the functionality in terms of character-based achievement logging even after the real ones are merged?

Zezin

proprio.meb16_ESO wrote: »

Ok, awa wont be posticipated...
But then all broken content must be addressed before it goes live... the fix of museum stuff is welcome but it's one of many... or will zos release broken content and fix it on the way?

What about delve completion issue, random encounters, elseweyr two queens and other stuff (should recover one of the numerous lists that have been made in these 62 pages).

Wouldn't be the first time.

Kesstryl

Dear ZOS

Well, since this is a done deal, let me add more feedback. ZOS, you had weeks of internal testing to figure out where achievements would affect quests and how NPCs react to our characters. From the bugs seen with quests and NPC reactions to alts who've never done the story lines in those zones, I can't believe you didn't fix these obvious issues BEFORE rolling it to PTS. The hamfisted way of merging achievements but not untying NPC reactions and quests from those achievements has ruined this game for those of us who come here for the stories and the role play. I've already made my case clear in a previous, quite long comment about how this destroys the way I play. The least you could have done was figure out a way to untie NPC reactions and quests from achievements and implement an alternative way to have those things tied to our characters.

Ok, you finally admitted this was for performance and not some magnanimous gift to players out of feedback and goodwill. I can accept losses to keep the game healthy. I will NEVER accept a shoddy implementation that destroys immersion and how the world of Tamriel reacts to my alts. If you can't (or won't) fix those things, I'm out. I'm done. I spent a lot of money over these 8 years on your game through subs, crown buying, invested a lot of that into housing, outfits, pets, etc. You will not have my money anymore. I don't pay to play a product that is so badly done that it destroys what the RPG world of Elder Scrolls is and makes it as immersive as the next generic MMOG that everyone plays through once and then forgets.

I've put up with a lot of changes I didn't like over the years from you. When nerfs wrecked my progression groups, I always thought to myself, well, there's always this beautiful world and great quests to play through again, they can't ever wreck role play. OMG I was so wrong! You managed to wreck that too. Good job on that, I don't think I've ever heard of a game that nerfed role play before. You get the achievement for that!

You have two weeks to fix this, that's how long my now cancelled sub lasts. I will not subject my characters to living in a world where NPCs have this amnesia plague about who they are and what they've done. This literally has caused such anxiety that I feel literally sick to my stomach about it. This game was my escape from the real world, a place to suspend my disbelief and live another life through my characters so I could feel better when I returned to the real world again. I'll have to find that somewhere else now, and trust me, I certainly will if this isn't fixed, and that place will get my hard earned money that I work hard for so I can escape for a little while in my off time. I get the sense that you don't take role players as seriously as score pushers and PvPers, or you would have fixed these things before letting this crap hit PTS. That disrespect also makes me sick to my stomach. Your game doesn't deserve the title of Elder Scrolls. I've never seen this IP so mismanaged.

KMarble

Ishtarknows wrote: »

KMarble wrote: »

AWA showcases, IMO, that ZOS prefer to cater to a type of player whose only interest is "end game" no matter how they get there (but, if possible, with the least amount of no effort.

I disagree. Obviously it depends on what your own endgame looks like, but I'd say endgame players want to achieve titles on more than one character and the kudos comes from having more than one Godslayer/ Planesbreaker/ Gryphonheart/ Former Emperor/ 5* General/ Grand Master Crafter/ Master Thief/ Bane of the Gold Coast/ Tamriel Hero etc
Rather than the extremely casual view of "I've done it once so I don't need to do it again". It's the casual people this change caters to.

The people I've spoken to about this are generally neutral or positive when they hear about it first, but when they hear how it's being implemented are generally baffled and unhappy.
Some things should be kept character specific, like titles. Some classes and roles are just easier to complete content on while some are significantly harder and personally, I'm sad any new characters I make won't be able to earn their own arena and trial titles while they're still sub50.
Initially I hoped we'd get a new, additional feature, kind of like the Xbox game achievements where major achievements are collated and give an account overview rather than this ridiculous venture to appease the casuals.

I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. I didn't say that all end game players are like that. Heck! I know a lot of them who are actually the opposite of the type of player I mentioned in the post you quoted.

The fact is that there are players who just want the easy mode to end game. If they didn't exist, no one would be selling carries on zone chat.

Arthtur

Of course it will help performance... Soooo many ppl will stop playing that we will have better performance for 100 percent. /s

Its funny tho how achievements are the problem when we have all those mementos, mounts, tatoos etc. from the Store. Oh right they get money for those....

Also what happend to new servers? Are They worse than old ones so that's the reason u have to delete characters achievements?

But the most funny thing will be when Gina will say something on Twitter. Because communication is important... /s
Im rly glad that after soo many posts the only thing we get is "we dont care about u at all". This will make leaving for a lot of ppl easier.

Balthors

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emilyhyoyeon

WiseSky wrote: »

Ohh God...

Are you saying my level 2 Character will be Greeted as if they Traversed and adventured the whole Tamriel by the NPCs...

What is the point of making a new Character then?

Yeah I personally don't mind the achievements themselves being on every character, but I don't want the achievements to in this way affect characters that didn't get them. Same with museum quests. I really want them to put AWA on hold for now.