New anti gank hack? Its Miat's!

geonsocal

Players should have to see these attacks coming with their own eyes and should be relying on their own skill and reflexes.

xylena_lazarow

EmperorIl wrote: »

So explain to me how you know someone from stealth who has not been revealed is about to heavy attack you.

I don't always know, but I use detect pots, baiting, anticipating, random luck, and ganker mistakes.

Zabagad

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

EmperorIl wrote: »

So explain to me how you know someone from stealth who has not been revealed is about to heavy attack you.

I don't always know, but I use detect pots, baiting, anticipating, random luck, and ganker mistakes.

I do that too - but, if OP is honest with us then this will not lead to this:

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

on three separate days [...] whilst looking at their map, managed to randomly throw up block the second my backstab was about to land. [...]but three times IN A ROW he has got to be cheating. I watch this man for minutes straight and he isn't just randomly blocking until I go for the backstab.

L_Nici

Miats won't warn you of incoming attacks, if the player using it is properly hidden. It will only give you a warning sound, if the enemy channeling an abillity is visible at that point.

PvP_Exploiter

ZoS fixed Miats alerting about stealthed opponents some time ago.

PvP_Exploiter

EmperorIl wrote: »

I just had a dude do this to me this morning. Attacked him from stealth while he was on siege, no one else near him. He dodged right as I went to attack him....while on siege lol. Come on now.....

Where's the video?

maxjapank

PvP_Exploiter wrote: »

EmperorIl wrote: »

I just had a dude do this to me this morning. Attacked him from stealth while he was on siege, no one else near him. He dodged right as I went to attack him....while on siege lol. Come on now.....

Where's the video?

You asked for a video in another thread. Asked for a private message. And I sent you one showing someone flying. You never replied.

PvP_Exploiter

maxjapank wrote: »

PvP_Exploiter wrote: »

EmperorIl wrote: »

I just had a dude do this to me this morning. Attacked him from stealth while he was on siege, no one else near him. He dodged right as I went to attack him....while on siege lol. Come on now.....

Where's the video?

You asked for a video in another thread. Asked for a private message. And I sent you one showing someone flying. You never replied.

Irrelevant to the topic

Tommy_The_Gun

PvP_Exploiter wrote: »

ZoS fixed Miats alerting about stealthed opponents some time ago.

I remember that Miat's used to do stuff like that (as OP has mentioned), but I also remember that ZOS fixed it by simply changing API - so that the client did not received certain informations - and thus there was no way for an addon to "know" if anything is going to happen.

Could it be possible that they tried to fix performance & reduce lag & health de-syncs and they brought it back by accident ? So maybe as a part of "optimizations" they brought back some of the API, so that there is a way to use add-on to get this kind of notifications again ? idk.

Noctus

maxjapank wrote: »

PvP_Exploiter wrote: »

EmperorIl wrote: »

I just had a dude do this to me this morning. Attacked him from stealth while he was on siege, no one else near him. He dodged right as I went to attack him....while on siege lol. Come on now.....

Where's the video?

You asked for a video in another thread. Asked for a private message. And I sent you one showing someone flying. You never replied.

irrelevant to the topic and i explained it in another thread. back in the day ppl could even spam ultimates and do anything.
zos later on made more and more things with server sided checks. this is also part why cyro has lags becouse they check anything on ur char.
now there is not much ppl can do then to abuse bugs that are in the system like jumping rly high and stuff. i think clipping through some walls is still possible too. so yeh "cheating" got reduced to that and seemingly became harder after latest updates.

as ppl stated there is simply no indicator client side that can tell u that someone about to burst u. the person had detect pots up on crucial positions like that a flag or going into another zone. u simply got outplayed.

another problem is ppl let their cloak run out the moment they use their ultimate which has a channel time even a splitsecond is enough for most ppl.

general reaction time 0.18 (some athletes 0.1) seconds dawnbreaker cast time 0.4 secs. if u decloak at +0.18 of ur attack person ur attacking will block. its a simple right click.

Noctus

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Now idk maybe this is ok with a lot of you, but in my eyes this is no different then wall hacking in an fps. Gives the player intel and knowledge that they otherwise would have not been able to have. Lets take ganking out of the picture because lots of you hate us. If you try to heavy attack someone using this addon from behind or in a situation they would have a hard time seeing, this addon will notify the user of your attack. This effects us all, not just gankers. Zos please look into this and fix the holes in your game that are allowing this addon and maybe even others to give unfair advantages to players who use them.

id still say u got outplayed but yes. im with u on this one ppl shouldnt have indicators like that. i personally dont use it but its rly tempting seeing twitch streamers using it.

let me explain.

if i use a skill which is not in the field of view of the person im about to attack he shouldnt know what im about to do.
when i make an effort to get into the back of ppl and use an angle from which they can hardly see me like on top of some structure i should be rewarded for positioning. this would also give bow builds a bit more relevance for other classes than just nighblade and sorc.

something rly annoying is that ppl have indicator for caluurion and crippling grasp, assassins will. especially the last one even casted from stealth will give enemy a notification. since the attack itself breaks ur stealth and the travel time gives the person enough time to dodge or block.

EmperorIl

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

EmperorIl wrote: »

So explain to me how you know someone from stealth who has not been revealed is about to heavy attack you.

I don't always know, but I use detect pots, baiting, anticipating, random luck, and ganker mistakes.

All active ways to counter stealth and very effective. I have no issue with this, but it is NOT at all what we are talking about.

Joy_Division

Kordai wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

There's claiming you're this experienced ganker and that the likely reason you fIled is because someone probably has a cheat program and then there is providing a video that shows what you claim

Not everybody records themselves playing constantly. I played on an older computer that struggled to do both. Now I play on a laptop with limited memory. While I do record some things, typically I don't record whole sessions. I'm sorry I don't have the money to spare on a hobby to show you videos that would never prove anything.

Say I show you a video of somebody using incap 8 times in a row? Is it cheating? No because with luck you can do that without cheating. If the OP did record and has a video of somebody randomly blocking a stealthed hit, is it cheating? No because it is completely possible to do it without cheating. If I'm in stealth and somebody is constantly chasing me without the use of a detect pot/sentry/CP/camo hunter, is it cheating? No because they might just be that lucky. If somebody crits 1000 times in a row, is it cheating? No because it can happen without it. Nothing will ever be definitive even with video proof.

A lot more people cheat than some people think, and less than others think. It's really not that complicated to understand.

Do people want to cheat: Yes
Is it easy to cheat: Yes

To not get get caught is harder, but as said here, it isn’t that easy to tell. Which means that it is easier than many other games to not get caught.

Take aimbots. When somebody is first killed by an aimbot is it obvious? Not always. When they see the other persons screen on kill cam? Tends to be a lot more obvious. So the person getting killed by the aimbot recording themself would never prove anything without killcam. And god know there are a lot of people using aimbots.

Shadowplay, so old i doubt it's even called that, worked fine on my old laptop.

Do videos definitely prove something? No. Do they allow objective observers to make a judgement call while considering all the particulars better than a wall of text? 1000%.

Ultimately because they cant prove anything, people probably wont get banned. But they do raise awareness on both the players part and the devs. It took ZOS a long time (too long) to take action on the Miat add on, but they eventually did so because of the proliferarion of video evidence that gave the critics very strong claims. I distinctly remember Zos making changes on the PTS because of videos people provided. In the beginning of the CP system, Rich Lambert specifically cited a video of a single player soloing Molag Bol as the reason for changes.

And even if zos cant ban people, the rest of the community can be aware of which players somehow magically are consistently able to incap 10 times in a row. There were two players on PC NA infamous for their ability to consistently have 96% damage mitigation. They didn't get banned, but thabjs to the numerous and consistent videos we all knew just to avoid these players and not give them the time of day.

Amottica

I would suggest reporting it and providing what you think is happening. If something nefarious is truly occurring then I think that would go a lot farther than our speculation about what happened.

PvP_Exploiter

Joy_Division wrote: »

Kordai wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

There's claiming you're this experienced ganker and that the likely reason you fIled is because someone probably has a cheat program and then there is providing a video that shows what you claim

Not everybody records themselves playing constantly. I played on an older computer that struggled to do both. Now I play on a laptop with limited memory. While I do record some things, typically I don't record whole sessions. I'm sorry I don't have the money to spare on a hobby to show you videos that would never prove anything.

Say I show you a video of somebody using incap 8 times in a row? Is it cheating? No because with luck you can do that without cheating. If the OP did record and has a video of somebody randomly blocking a stealthed hit, is it cheating? No because it is completely possible to do it without cheating. If I'm in stealth and somebody is constantly chasing me without the use of a detect pot/sentry/CP/camo hunter, is it cheating? No because they might just be that lucky. If somebody crits 1000 times in a row, is it cheating? No because it can happen without it. Nothing will ever be definitive even with video proof.

A lot more people cheat than some people think, and less than others think. It's really not that complicated to understand.

Do people want to cheat: Yes
Is it easy to cheat: Yes

To not get get caught is harder, but as said here, it isn’t that easy to tell. Which means that it is easier than many other games to not get caught.

Take aimbots. When somebody is first killed by an aimbot is it obvious? Not always. When they see the other persons screen on kill cam? Tends to be a lot more obvious. So the person getting killed by the aimbot recording themself would never prove anything without killcam. And god know there are a lot of people using aimbots.

Shadowplay, so old i doubt it's even called that, worked fine on my old laptop.

Do videos definitely prove something? No. Do they allow objective observers to make a judgement call while considering all the particulars better than a wall of text? 1000%.

Ultimately because they cant prove anything, people probably wont get banned. But they do raise awareness on both the players part and the devs. It took ZOS a long time (too long) to take action on the Miat add on, but they eventually did so because of the proliferarion of video evidence that gave the critics very strong claims. I distinctly remember Zos making changes on the PTS because of videos people provided. In the beginning of the CP system, Rich Lambert specifically cited a video of a single player soloing Molag Bol as the reason for changes.

And even if zos cant ban people, the rest of the community can be aware of which players somehow magically are consistently able to incap 10 times in a row. There were two players on PC NA infamous for their ability to consistently have 96% damage mitigation. They didn't get banned, but thabjs to the numerous and consistent videos we all knew just to avoid these players and not give them the time of day.

A forum post without any evidence is useless, and only creates theories with no end. The only people who could potentially see what happening in the OPs scenario is ZoS by checking server logs or something. No one here can actually help to say what might have happened, or if it is suspicious, as we have nothing.

Kordai

Joy_Division wrote: »

Kordai wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

There's claiming you're this experienced ganker and that the likely reason you fIled is because someone probably has a cheat program and then there is providing a video that shows what you claim

Not everybody records themselves playing constantly. I played on an older computer that struggled to do both. Now I play on a laptop with limited memory. While I do record some things, typically I don't record whole sessions. I'm sorry I don't have the money to spare on a hobby to show you videos that would never prove anything.

Say I show you a video of somebody using incap 8 times in a row? Is it cheating? No because with luck you can do that without cheating. If the OP did record and has a video of somebody randomly blocking a stealthed hit, is it cheating? No because it is completely possible to do it without cheating. If I'm in stealth and somebody is constantly chasing me without the use of a detect pot/sentry/CP/camo hunter, is it cheating? No because they might just be that lucky. If somebody crits 1000 times in a row, is it cheating? No because it can happen without it. Nothing will ever be definitive even with video proof.

A lot more people cheat than some people think, and less than others think. It's really not that complicated to understand.

Do people want to cheat: Yes
Is it easy to cheat: Yes

To not get get caught is harder, but as said here, it isn’t that easy to tell. Which means that it is easier than many other games to not get caught.

Take aimbots. When somebody is first killed by an aimbot is it obvious? Not always. When they see the other persons screen on kill cam? Tends to be a lot more obvious. So the person getting killed by the aimbot recording themself would never prove anything without killcam. And god know there are a lot of people using aimbots.

Shadowplay, so old i doubt it's even called that, worked fine on my old laptop.

Do videos definitely prove something? No. Do they allow objective observers to make a judgement call while considering all the particulars better than a wall of text? 1000%.

Ultimately because they cant prove anything, people probably wont get banned. But they do raise awareness on both the players part and the devs. It took ZOS a long time (too long) to take action on the Miat add on, but they eventually did so because of the proliferarion of video evidence that gave the critics very strong claims. I distinctly remember Zos making changes on the PTS because of videos people provided. In the beginning of the CP system, Rich Lambert specifically cited a video of a single player soloing Molag Bol as the reason for changes.

And even if zos cant ban people, the rest of the community can be aware of which players somehow magically are consistently able to incap 10 times in a row. There were two players on PC NA infamous for their ability to consistently have 96% damage mitigation. They didn't get banned, but thabjs to the numerous and consistent videos we all knew just to avoid these players and not give them the time of day.

Okay I never heard of it, but I’ll check it out, thanks. Althought it’s pretty ironic that it’s also a song by Joy Division, did that have anything to do with you choosing that name?

As the other person already said, nobody in this thread with or without video can make any definitive statements nor should we. This is purely between zos, the OP and the other player. This is obviously not the method for reporting any suspicions, nor should it be. Video evidence is definitely more helpful to submit a ticket online to zos for them to investigate, but I doubt most people record themselves consistently.

Old miats was very obvious and could be very easily demonstrated. That was a very very different case than most of the things we’d see now, I doubt anything of questionable “cheating” would ever be as widespread or documented as that.

Your mentioning of videos about 2 notable players with questionable means is interesting. The videos showing the players is in violation of tos but I guess maybe people were able to figure it out without naming them. In another similar thread zos was removing most specific talk of means.

I’m just always surprised that so many people blindly deny the existence of cheaters when we know that they exist. I guess they just think all the people that zos bans for cheating is a big conspiracy.

marius_buys

Something to consider
1 He may have slotted Radiant Magelight that prevents the stun from stealth
2 He may have block on a keybind thats almost automatic when reacting
3 He may be on a lower server ping than you
4 He may have an anti stealth setup that reveals you before your close enough like Wood Elf, Sentry, Way of the Air

Best would be to record the gank and slowmow it

divnyi

marius_buys wrote: »

2 He may have block on a keybind thats almost automatic when reacting

Can't react to heavy attack stun from stealth.

Other than that, I agree that ppl should record. Winkey+Alt+G, people, it's not that hard. Set up for 2 minutes so you have plenty of time to remember and click.

NerfSeige

Don’t use game bar, use shadow play or the amd equivalent so you can record after it happens like on consoles.

divnyi

NerfSeige wrote: »

Don’t use game bar, use shadow play or the amd equivalent so you can record after it happens like on consoles.

Whats wrong with game bar? You can record post-factum too.

geonsocal

PvP_Exploiter wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Kordai wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

There's claiming you're this experienced ganker and that the likely reason you fIled is because someone probably has a cheat program and then there is providing a video that shows what you claim

Not everybody records themselves playing constantly. I played on an older computer that struggled to do both. Now I play on a laptop with limited memory. While I do record some things, typically I don't record whole sessions. I'm sorry I don't have the money to spare on a hobby to show you videos that would never prove anything.

Say I show you a video of somebody using incap 8 times in a row? Is it cheating? No because with luck you can do that without cheating. If the OP did record and has a video of somebody randomly blocking a stealthed hit, is it cheating? No because it is completely possible to do it without cheating. If I'm in stealth and somebody is constantly chasing me without the use of a detect pot/sentry/CP/camo hunter, is it cheating? No because they might just be that lucky. If somebody crits 1000 times in a row, is it cheating? No because it can happen without it. Nothing will ever be definitive even with video proof.

A lot more people cheat than some people think, and less than others think. It's really not that complicated to understand.

Do people want to cheat: Yes
Is it easy to cheat: Yes

To not get get caught is harder, but as said here, it isn’t that easy to tell. Which means that it is easier than many other games to not get caught.

Take aimbots. When somebody is first killed by an aimbot is it obvious? Not always. When they see the other persons screen on kill cam? Tends to be a lot more obvious. So the person getting killed by the aimbot recording themself would never prove anything without killcam. And god know there are a lot of people using aimbots.

Shadowplay, so old i doubt it's even called that, worked fine on my old laptop.

Do videos definitely prove something? No. Do they allow objective observers to make a judgement call while considering all the particulars better than a wall of text? 1000%.

Ultimately because they cant prove anything, people probably wont get banned. But they do raise awareness on both the players part and the devs. It took ZOS a long time (too long) to take action on the Miat add on, but they eventually did so because of the proliferarion of video evidence that gave the critics very strong claims. I distinctly remember Zos making changes on the PTS because of videos people provided. In the beginning of the CP system, Rich Lambert specifically cited a video of a single player soloing Molag Bol as the reason for changes.

And even if zos cant ban people, the rest of the community can be aware of which players somehow magically are consistently able to incap 10 times in a row. There were two players on PC NA infamous for their ability to consistently have 96% damage mitigation. They didn't get banned, but thabjs to the numerous and consistent videos we all knew just to avoid these players and not give them the time of day.

No one here can actually help to say what might have happened, or if it is suspicious, as we have nothing.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

I am pretty sure addons play a huge part of this. Now that I am read up on what Miat's can all do things make a lot more sense. Explains why its so rare to run into these people with that sixth sense and why its not even always good players.

Alternatively though I was doing some experiments with another nb. Basically he wanted to see if it was even possible to break free and escape my burst, but in the process we discovered a huge bug. He tells me that he can hear my character grunting and making noise while I am cloaking and sneaking. Apparently even just swinging at the air with a LA is sometimes audible to people you are about ready to gank. Now I never noticed this before because I almost never get ganked as a ganker, so idk if this is a new issue or an existing one. Old or new though zos needs to fix this pronto. Your character doesn't grunt every single time he swings and even when he does its not always audible to your opponent, so its adding an unpredictable level of RNG to sneaking.

gariondavey

This is definitely a thing. I was in cloak + sneak, went to gank a dude with a dw heavy attack, and he dodge rolled. He had no idea where I was, but I repeated this a few more times over 10 or so minutes.

Every. Time. Like clockwork. Dodge roll just before my heavy would connect. I was always invisible, but it didn't matter.

milllaurie

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

I am pretty sure addons play a huge part of this. Now that I am read up on what Miat's can all do things make a lot more sense. Explains why its so rare to run into these people with that sixth sense and why its not even always good players.

Alternatively though I was doing some experiments with another nb. Basically he wanted to see if it was even possible to break free and escape my burst, but in the process we discovered a huge bug. He tells me that he can hear my character grunting and making noise while I am cloaking and sneaking. Apparently even just swinging at the air with a LA is sometimes audible to people you are about ready to gank. Now I never noticed this before because I almost never get ganked as a ganker, so idk if this is a new issue or an existing one. Old or new though zos needs to fix this pronto. Your character doesn't grunt every single time he swings and even when he does its not always audible to your opponent, so its adding an unpredictable level of RNG to sneaking.

Yes, grunts and stuff are audible. Also common nb buffs like rally, merciless etc are very easy to hear even if they are stealthed.
Edit: it is not a bug buddy, the skill grants you invisibility, not inaudibility. 😉

PvP_Exploiter

gariondavey wrote: »

This is definitely a thing. I was in cloak + sneak, went to gank a dude with a dw heavy attack, and he dodge rolled. He had no idea where I was, but I repeated this a few more times over 10 or so minutes.

Every. Time. Like clockwork. Dodge roll just before my heavy would connect. I was always invisible, but it didn't matter.

Video?

EF321

I had Miat's installed for quite some time for it's cool UI improvements.
Much like addon page says, attack notification feature does NOT work.

The only thing I get is sound que when negative effect is applied to me (which without addons you can see visually on your character and icon on (de)buff bar too).

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We've had to remove a few non-constructive and baiting comments. Please remember that while it’s alright to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable on our forums. We know people will not always agree and many of you will share different opinions, but please remember that being rude to your fellow community members is against our forum rules and not in the spirit of our game. Please be sure to keep our Community Rules in mind when posting on our forums.

Thank you for your understanding.

etchedpixels

At least in PvE space if you are grouped with someone and duelling there are addons that will entirely accidentally show stealthed characters positions on screen. However as far as I am aware it only works if you are grouped so won't work in PvP. It was reported as an exploit anyway just in case there were ways to use it.

spacefracking wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the fancy new games with anti cheat stuff going on are able to do what they do by creating like, an artificial protected memory block in system memory.

PC hardware doesn't usefully support anything so sophisticated (yet), and the stuff that was in progress when I left a large chip company was aimed at cloud not gaming. Well designed modern games actually use a rather more sophisticated approach - the simply don't send the information to the other users client. That creates its own challenges - for example if I don't know Fred is in the bushes then my client can't preload his skin before he pops out.

All anit-cheat ultimately turns into stadia type systems.

cinematograph

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Alright let me preface by saying I am no newbie and I have ganked 1000s of people since beta, so I know game sense from cheating.

One time I would say he got lucky(because this does happen), two times I would say really lucky, but three times IN A ROW he has got to be cheating.

I doubt reporting will do anything and since gankers are universally hated I doubt anyone will care, but this is cheating and you should care.

I am just running out of new people to gank, so this new kid on the block coming in and thwarting all my attempts is very tempting. Can't get reactions from people that I have killed dozens of times already because they are used to it. That and failing a gank is often times more frustrating then dying, so I really want to get this dude.

I was so close to killing him today....I don't even care if hes cheating now its just a challenge. A TRUE TEST OF MY BATTLE PROWESS. I have proven today that he can bleed and now I know he can be killed.

I am going to have to create a new build with no reliance on heavy attack and this cheating son of a gun is going down.

this is beautiful btw!

xylena_lazarow

cinematograph wrote: »

[snip]

I have fought @cinematograph plenty of times and have never seen any signs of cheating. Good fights btw.

[edited to remove quote]