It's Time to Turn Cyrodiil Into a PVE Only Zone

DMuehlhausen

I think there should be more PvE stuff to do and just have it a zone where you are flagged and at risk, but no it shouldn't be completely moved to PvE.

SeaGtGruff

Given points 1 and 3 of your arguments, there currently is no great need for a PvE-only version of Cyrodiil, because a PvE-only player can pretty much already go to Cyrodiil and do PvE quests without having to get into any PvP. Oh, there are definitely a few PvE hubs where you're more likely to run into an enemy PvP player and get killed, but there are other PvE hubs where you can usually come and go without having to constantly worry about getting killed while trying to talk to a quest giver.

tomfant

We have that already, ZOS called it Blackwood. Same type of landscape, same emptiness.

Casul

The moment eso stops AvAvA pvp is the moment I quit forever. That is my and many others endgame.

Stamicka

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Given points 1 and 3 of your arguments, there currently is no great need for a PvE-only version of Cyrodiil, because a PvE-only player can pretty much already go to Cyrodiil and do PvE quests without having to get into any PvP. Oh, there are definitely a few PvE hubs where you're more likely to run into an enemy PvP player and get killed, but there are other PvE hubs where you can usually come and go without having to constantly worry about getting killed while trying to talk to a quest giver.

This is missing the point. Let’s look at the BG Queue system as an example. In a perfect world there’s a Queue for groups, a Queue for solo players, and each of those are split into Deathmatch Only or Random BG. In total that’s 4 Queues which appeal to what people want from BGs. This Queue system has never worked because the BG community is too small. There’s not enough players to spread across 4 Queues and in previous patches it resulted in players not finding any matches at all. Currently it’s not working well because you get almost all deathmatches.

The same thing would happen if a new PvP zone was added and Cyrodiil stayed as a PvP zone. Players would spread across the new zone and Cyrodiil. This would cause Cyrodiil to be even more dead, and the new zone would be poorly populated. With the current PvP population, there can’t be too many options. As a result, Cyrodiil needs to be turned into a PVE only zone in order to populate other PvP areas. It can’t stay as is because it would pull people away from whatever would replace it.

Cyrodiil is the most logical option to remove as a PvP zone because it no longer supports its original intended purpose. Like I said it’s just too empty, and it no longer holds enough players.

Kwoung

Stamicka wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Given points 1 and 3 of your arguments, there currently is no great need for a PvE-only version of Cyrodiil, because a PvE-only player can pretty much already go to Cyrodiil and do PvE quests without having to get into any PvP. Oh, there are definitely a few PvE hubs where you're more likely to run into an enemy PvP player and get killed, but there are other PvE hubs where you can usually come and go without having to constantly worry about getting killed while trying to talk to a quest giver.

This is missing the point. Let’s look at the BG Queue system as an example. In a perfect world there’s a Queue for groups, a Queue for solo players, and each of those are split into Deathmatch Only or Random BG. In total that’s 4 Queues which appeal to what people want from BGs. This Queue system has never worked because the BG community is too small. There’s not enough players to spread across 4 Queues and in previous patches it resulted in players not finding any matches at all. Currently it’s not working well because you get almost all deathmatches.

The same thing would happen if a new PvP zone was added and Cyrodiil stayed as a PvP zone. Players would spread across the new zone and Cyrodiil. This would cause Cyrodiil to be even more dead, and the new zone would be poorly populated. With the current PvP population, there can’t be too many options. As a result, Cyrodiil needs to be turned into a PVE only zone in order to populate other PvP areas. It can’t stay as is because it would pull people away from whatever would replace it.

Cyrodiil is the most logical option to remove as a PvP zone because it no longer supports its original intended purpose. Like I said it’s just too empty, and it no longer holds enough players.

Hmmm... the fairly huge fights my friends and I get into as recent as this past weekend, seem to say otherwise. 60v40v20 may not be as huge as it was when launched, but mixing it up with 120 players is still fun. I can guarantee there are many PVE zones that never have 120 players in them, maybe they should all just be converted to PVP to bring them back to life instead?

MEBengalsFan2001

I came back to ESO in late August after a year away just to play PVP. There are times where the zone is dead but there are times where it is extremely busy.

I'm curious if anyone knows how the emp ranking system works. I have two characters that I play in PVP. One is a higher rank than my primary character and I only played him until his PVP rank hit rank 3 for the month. Yet my main PVP character has over 2M AP earned but has a lower emp ranking. What is that about? My friend who plays a very different character also see this issue and his main never hits above 120 and yet he has generated millions in AP during a campaign. This is all in GH.

As for bars of population, it should simply tell us how many of our faction is on and provide bars for the other factions.

Kwoung

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

I came back to ESO in late August after a year away just to play PVP. There are times where the zone is dead but there are times where it is extremely busy.

I'm curious if anyone knows how the emp ranking system works. I have two characters that I play in PVP. One is a higher rank than my primary character and I only played him until his PVP rank hit rank 3 for the month. Yet my main PVP character has over 2M AP earned but has a lower emp ranking. What is that about? My friend who plays a very different character also see this issue and his main never hits above 120 and yet he has generated millions in AP during a campaign. This is all in GH.

As for bars of population, it should simply tell us how many of our faction is on and provide bars for the other factions.

If you are on PC, get one or two of the Alliance Point trackers that are available, so you can see what you actually earned. Also keep in mind, that if you are using AP boosting items like the Coldavian War Tortes, that extra AP only counts for your overall alliance rank (Legate, Volunteer, etc...) not towards your monthly Emperor rank, so it can get pretty confusing. Lastly, the ranks are not calculated on the fly, I am not sure if it is with the hourly tick or daily, since I haven't paid attention, but checking the next day would be a more valid gauge of where you are at. Other than that, yeah, it could easily be bugged.

Call_of_Red_Mountain

It's time for Cyrodiil rework (as pvp zone) and new pvp content (small dlc).

I miss Cyro from Oblivion tho. But we can't play it again. Different games, teams and even eras in TES lore.

Jaraal

Bucky_13 wrote: »

No. It's still the most fun way of doing PvP, despite the brutal performance issues.

Imagine how good it could be if everything worked correctly and the population caps weren't so low!

I think they should lease the zone (the concept, actually) to a separate company that can actually fix the issues, and settle for a percentage of the profit based royalty payment.

Sallymen

No. It's not.

Urzigurumash

Indigogo wrote: »

All I know is I will fight the war in cyrodiil till the servers are shut off.
If that means I spend my day mudballing filthy yellows as they try and steal fish from my waters, so be it.

Spoken like a true purple, won't feed the hungry even during peacetime.

BalticBlues

The Emperor in 2022


Cyrodiil is oooooold.
Grandpa and grandma still play this stuff?
Then let them have it - Rock'n'Roll Emperors forever.

kargen27

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Only the smallest portion of an already tiny group of players actually goes to Cyrodiil to fight other players.

You forgot to mention that of these players, the majority of them are tryhards that are only interested in stomping disorganized randoms, not fighting other tryhards.

You must only go there for an event when you have players that want to PvP but aren't willing to get good at it camp quest areas to jump PvE players. They take the frustration of them getting killed all year long out for a week on people just trying to do a quest.

Most the year you have players engaging with other players at keeps and chokepoints for what is left of large battles and to advance the map.
You have really missed out on PvP if the above really is how you see PvP in Cyrodiil.

spacefracking

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

i have to take issue with the statement highlighted. there are 18 delves in cyrodiil, more than any other map, and they have multiple bosses making them more like public dungeons. there are also several pve quest hubs.

It's worth noting that cyrodiil is much, much larger than any other zone in the game. There's a reason why the riding speed passive is from an alliance war skill line

kargen27

Stamicka wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Given points 1 and 3 of your arguments, there currently is no great need for a PvE-only version of Cyrodiil, because a PvE-only player can pretty much already go to Cyrodiil and do PvE quests without having to get into any PvP. Oh, there are definitely a few PvE hubs where you're more likely to run into an enemy PvP player and get killed, but there are other PvE hubs where you can usually come and go without having to constantly worry about getting killed while trying to talk to a quest giver.

This is missing the point. Let’s look at the BG Queue system as an example. In a perfect world there’s a Queue for groups, a Queue for solo players, and each of those are split into Deathmatch Only or Random BG. In total that’s 4 Queues which appeal to what people want from BGs. This Queue system has never worked because the BG community is too small. There’s not enough players to spread across 4 Queues and in previous patches it resulted in players not finding any matches at all. Currently it’s not working well because you get almost all deathmatches.

The same thing would happen if a new PvP zone was added and Cyrodiil stayed as a PvP zone. Players would spread across the new zone and Cyrodiil. This would cause Cyrodiil to be even more dead, and the new zone would be poorly populated. With the current PvP population, there can’t be too many options. As a result, Cyrodiil needs to be turned into a PVE only zone in order to populate other PvP areas. It can’t stay as is because it would pull people away from whatever would replace it.

Cyrodiil is the most logical option to remove as a PvP zone because it no longer supports its original intended purpose. Like I said it’s just too empty, and it no longer holds enough players.

There was a mass exodus during the Dark Convergence debacle and the drop of a new game added to that exodus. Players are coming back though and during peak hours we are getting back to a population locked campaign. Players will continue to return. If ZoS figures out the performance issues players will return to Cyrodiil en masse. If you want to PvE take advantage of the less popular campaign.
People who enjoy PvP play that Cyrodiil brings might not be interested in battlegrounds at all. Getting rid of Cyrodiil doesn't automatically mean those players will go to battlegrounds or be happy dueling. it would be like saying we are going to take away vet trials because not enough players are doing public dungeons.

TequilaFire

You know I really wish ZOS would spin up a separate instance of PvE Cyro for all that want it, it wouldn't have to be long as it would be dead in a week.
And let them have the rewards you don't get much on those quests anyway.
Just leave battle spirit in place so they don't face roll it.
Make it an event or something would be another idea.

JJOtterBear

Yes, I agree we need a PvE Cyrodiil/IC. with quests, story and lore. but also keep the PVP version, and keep pvp rewards out of the PvE version.

saying no to a PvE Cyro/Ic because pvp'ers want to kill pve'ers for easy telvar is not a valid argument.

kargen27

JJOtterBear wrote: »

Yes, I agree we need a PvE Cyrodiil/IC. with quests, story and lore. but also keep the PVP version, and keep pvp rewards out of the PvE version.

saying no to a PvE Cyro/Ic because pvp'ers want to kill pve'ers for easy telvar is not a valid argument.

Very few if any make that argument. That is usually an argument invented by those that want a PvE Cyrodiil. PvP types are happy fighting other PvP types and honestly don't need the telvar nor the AP.

SkaraMinoc

Raideen wrote: »

RVRVR has never really worked well, I am not sure why game companies keep trying to make it a thing. It worked in DAOC and thats it.

What do you mean RvRvR has never really worked well? It's the best part of GW2.

Cyrodiil would work if it wasn't a running simulator. Map needs to be smaller. Too much empty space.

Grandchamp1989

Personly I find Cyro to be a riding simulator...

When there is epic sieges it is by far the most enjoyable.. But the wait between those.......
Just riding......

mikemacon

Cyrodiil (Grey Host) is usually pop locked for all three alliances during primetime Xbox-NA.

It's hardly empty, dead, or even dying.

Anecdotally you may know or have heard of people who have left...but the reality is that it's still as populated as ever.

I'm going to vote a hard "no".

EmperorIl

Stamicka wrote: »

As the title says, I think it's time to shut down the PvP aspect of Cyrodiil. Below are 5 reasons that support this change.

1. The Population Is Constantly Reduced
Cyrodiil is a huge map that was originally made to hold over 1000 players. The current population cap is unknown, but even at 2-3 bars of population there is very little action on the map. The map is too large to support Cyrodiil's low capacity. At most you will see 2 or 3 fights doing on at once. It is not uncommon to go 10+ minutes without seeing another enemy player in areas where you would expect to them. This problem seems to be at it's worst in the current patch.

2. The Performance Is Bad No Matter What
Almost anyone would agree that the game works very poorly in Cyrodiil. We have seen tests for No-CP, AOE cooldowns, and No Procs. In all cases, Cyrodiil always lags. Even today, Gray Host lagged with red at 3 bars, Blue at 1 bar, and yellow at 2 bars. Even below maximum capacity, Cyrodiil has poor performance. Playing a fast paced game with skill delay ruins the most enjoyable aspect of the game.

3. The Player Base Has Changed
The ESO player base has shifted towards a casual crowd that has no interest in PvP. Out of the 3 Veteran Campaigns during prime time, typically only one will be filled, one will have a few bars, and one will be completely empty. This reflects a very small PvP community, especially considering that the population cap is likely the lowest it has ever been. On top of this, many people in Cyrodiil are only interested in transmute crystals. There's also a fairly large portion of Cyrodiil players that prefer to play the map rather than have any contact with enemy players. Only the smallest portion of an already tiny group of players actually goes to Cyrodiil to fight other players. Lastly, the under 50 campaign seems to remain empty which suggests that there's not an influx of newer players that want to get into PvP.

4. There Are Other PvP Options
The removal of Cyrodiil as a PvP zone may bring more players into BGs, or Imperial City. It also gives Zenimax a chance to make something completely new. The emptiness and poor performance of Cyrodiil may turn away potential PvPers. Maybe the PvP community could grow if people had a better first experience in PvP.

5. Cyrodiil is Old
Cyrodiil has been in the game since 2014 yet it has seen very few changes. PvPers could use something new and exciting.

I say all of this as someone who has great memories in Cyrodiil. Unfortunately time has not been kind to this zone and its time for something new.

I only play this game for cyro and I'm sure I am not the only one. Shut it down and I never play again. Cyro needs a revamp for sure, but you have enough PvE content....leave Cyro alone.

Stamicka

mikemacon wrote: »

Cyrodiil (Grey Host) is usually pop locked for all three alliances during primetime Xbox-NA.

It's hardly empty, dead, or even dying.

Anecdotally you may know or have heard of people who have left...but the reality is that it's still as populated as ever.

I'm going to vote a hard "no".

Sorry but those of us that have been around long enough know that not even a pop locked Cyrodiil is populated. Like I’ve said the population cap has been reduced by a huge amount. Even then, it’s only pop locked for a few hours a day. Consider that in 2015 there were multiple filled campaigns with a much higher population cap. The PvP community is only a fraction of what it once was.

When you go to Cyrodiil, which parts of the map do you find enemy players? It’s usually the same spots around the emperor ring. The map is too large to support such a small amount of players and it would be better if it was completely replaced by something smaller that has better performance.

Nanfoodle

This would be the the last nail in the coffin that would have me leave this game. My hope is that MS puts this game on a real server farm and we PvP players get back the game we love.

Charlotte_Loreley

No, thank you! PVP zones with PVE content are exciting and interesting.
Can we, as a community of gamers, stop dividing games into demographics? I thought we were past the whole segregation thing.

drsalvation

I don't think Cyrodiil should be removed from PvP.
BUT I do think we need a PvE Campaign in Cyrodiil, one where you "canonically" work with your alliance for the throne, where you could do sieges... or join the imperials and help defend Cyrodiil (I desperately want to be an imperial that's an actual imperial and not just by race), even if the map is smaller, but having an actual story campaign attached to liberating outposts and towns, and allowing Cyrodiil to recover from the war (even tho the war is not over...)
But I guess it's impossible since games as a service need excuses to continue public events (like the dolmen anchors).

AuraStorm43

You wanna shut down the only large scale PVP the game has? When it actually works its pretty fun

Seems pretty toxic to wanna shut down one of the few places we have to pvp

AuraStorm43

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

I came back to ESO in late August after a year away just to play PVP. There are times where the zone is dead but there are times where it is extremely busy.

I'm curious if anyone knows how the emp ranking system works. I have two characters that I play in PVP. One is a higher rank than my primary character and I only played him until his PVP rank hit rank 3 for the month. Yet my main PVP character has over 2M AP earned but has a lower emp ranking. What is that about? My friend who plays a very different character also see this issue and his main never hits above 120 and yet he has generated millions in AP during a campaign. This is all in GH.

As for bars of population, it should simply tell us how many of our faction is on and provide bars for the other factions.

They won’t do that cuz it’d show how much smaller the player population caps are nowadays

kargen27

Stamicka wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

Cyrodiil (Grey Host) is usually pop locked for all three alliances during primetime Xbox-NA.

It's hardly empty, dead, or even dying.

Anecdotally you may know or have heard of people who have left...but the reality is that it's still as populated as ever.

I'm going to vote a hard "no".

Sorry but those of us that have been around long enough know that not even a pop locked Cyrodiil is populated. Like I’ve said the population cap has been reduced by a huge amount. Even then, it’s only pop locked for a few hours a day. Consider that in 2015 there were multiple filled campaigns with a much higher population cap. The PvP community is only a fraction of what it once was.

When you go to Cyrodiil, which parts of the map do you find enemy players? It’s usually the same spots around the emperor ring. The map is too large to support such a small amount of players and it would be better if it was completely replaced by something smaller that has better performance.

The map is large for a reason. It adds to strategy when trying to control the map. Same as having chokepoints between keeps. There are natural places where battles tend to take place. The design worked great when the map was more populated and still works well now. If you find your faction is outnumbered you can cut off an enemy keep and the distance comes into play. A small zone would create even more of a zerg fest than what we have now.

What Cyrodiil needs, really the only thing it needs, is a performance upgrade. I know ZoS has been working towards improving performance. I'm hoping eventually they will. Until then just don't get heavy handed on the changes for changes sake and let the PvP crowd enjoy what they do have.