Overland Content Feedback Thread

Sakiri

jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Most people aren't going to be able to FIND a slider. You overestimate the capacity of a lot of players.

Your personal lack of faith in the playerbase is not an excuse to completely ignore what could be a feature that a lot of people want. ESO is already a complex game, there's no reason to believe a configurable challenge system couldn't exist among everything else.

SilverBride wrote: »

I've supported optional debuffs and sliders as a quality of life feature for those that seek more difficulty, not because I feel that there is anything wrong with overland as it is. How much difficulty a player enjoys is a personal preference and not an indicator of a problem.

But if enough people do not enjoy the current difficulty, it is a problem for them, and it can be addressed in a way that doesn't affect your experience.

Forums are not indicative of the larger population. Vast majority of players do not come here, and I'm willing to bet the support for this in that population is low.

This is a casual game.

spartaxoxo

Forums are generally a representative sample of player sentiment. There's a large enough amount of people who want this that the devs have addressed it on multiple occasions as well as introduced new content that is catered toward providing a better experience for those who enjoy a challenge.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

Sakiri wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't want it changed. World doesn't revolve around you, or me. If they want player retention they won't change it.


Wany a challenge, go do some vet hms.

The same dungeons and trials we've been doing for years on repeat over and over? Meh.

We're asking for optional difficulty, so it won't affect you if you don't want it to.

You won't get optional. That's the problem. It'll be all or nothing without fully instancing quest bosses.

They can use a debuff slider on the player. It will allow scaling without having to do too much to the individual mobs itself. This would mean they could play on a higher difficulty in the same zone as someone at the default. We already have this as a hidden feature but with buffs for low level characters, as stated earlier in the thread.

A lot of people don't even notice they are playing next to someone on easy mode.

Most people aren't going to be able to FIND a slider. You overestimate the capacity of a lot of players.

And with these games it's all or nothing, or they incrementally expand the "feature". Blizzard does it, Daybreak does it. Square Enix does it....

Square Enix added difficulty options to the story boss instances in newer content and have sync level for content lower than the player level. You also have the relic weapon combat areas of Eureka and Bozjan Front which are harder content that I equate to IA and Bastion Nymic. So I disagree that SE has taken an all or nothing approach as they have always tried to accommodate player requests for harder content or in the case of quest bosses easier fights.

And I suggested a number of pages back to instance quest bosses and add a difficulty popup like FFXIV has, but it was shot down.

Every single one of your points is either incorrect (bozja is easy, and Eureka is only difficult in that you're competing for kills with bots), or refers to instanced content.

Scaling content like the FATE system won't work either because there's global scaling.

One Tamriel is what ruined the difficulty of the overworld. There's very little power progression in the overworld. It's easy from day one.

And I don't care/mind at all, and honestly hope it stays this way.

As I stated here previously or maybe in one of the other threads. I don't really care how ZOS accomplishes meeting the requirement as long as it is a well thought out design that requires a player to opt-in. I would opt-out as I am satisfied with the challenge level of the current overland content.

I stand by my points. You found Bozja and Eureka easy I didn't. Just as I found the quest bosses/climax instances hard and had a hard time completing some of them. The ability to have an easy mode brought things to my ability level which was great since I am more for the story than combat challenge.

We don't know what would work or not. The thread has lost sight of the reality that it is up to ZOS to take what is in this thread and distill it into a set of requirements. If they decide to do something it is ZOS that needs to build the business case and come up with a design. They might decide on a slider, some type of sync, instances or who knows what. As a result I consider all ideas on possible ways to meet the player wants on the table even if I don't agree with all of them. To date all we know for sure is they are not looking at making any changes but they might visit it the future.

SilverBride

I'm curious how many that want a more difficult overland played at launch and played through the veteran levels that were Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold, then experienced Craglorn when it was introduced.

I did... once. It was a continuous struggle just questing. A player would easily and frequently die to trash mobs, and it was not unusual to be stuck for days on a quest boss. Somehow I completed all the zones then Craglorn was introduced.

Craglorn was so difficult that a player had to be in a full group just to quest. That alone was a struggle because it was next to impossible to find a group that wanted to quest and if we did they were never all on the same step of the same quest.

I had to leave the game because I literally couldn't do anything, and I wasn't alone. A lot of players left over the difficulty.

So when I hear that overland is too easy I will do my best to protect it from turning into something like that again.

Muizer

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Forums are generally a representative sample of player sentiment. There's a large enough amount of people who want this that the devs have addressed it on multiple occasions as well as introduced new content that is catered toward providing a better experience for those who enjoy a challenge.

There was a poll not too long ago about how many CP people have and it was quite clear that low CP players are underrepresented. I can't find it now, for some reason, but here's one from 2020 that shows the same

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/512400/how-many-champion-points-do-you-have/p1

It is my experience that forum populations represent perhaps not necessarily the most fanatic players, but certainly long term players are overrepresented.

spartaxoxo

Muizer wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Forums are generally a representative sample of player sentiment. There's a large enough amount of people who want this that the devs have addressed it on multiple occasions as well as introduced new content that is catered toward providing a better experience for those who enjoy a challenge.

There was a poll not too long ago about how many CP people have and it was quite clear that low CP players are underrepresented. I can't find it now, for some reason, but here's one from 2020 that shows the same

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/512400/how-many-champion-points-do-you-have/p1

It is my experience that forum populations represent perhaps not necessarily the most fanatic players, but certainly long term players are overrepresented.

Sure, it does tend to skew towards less casual. So casual concerns are less represented than they should be and vet overrepresented. But it still tends to be pretty representative of the playerbase as a whole.


Edit
That's the reason they exist in the first place

Elsonso

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Forums are generally a representative sample of player sentiment. There's a large enough amount of people who want this that the devs have addressed it on multiple occasions as well as introduced new content that is catered toward providing a better experience for those who enjoy a challenge.

I do not believe that this is as true as people here in the forum think it is.

Silentverge

There is an easy solution to the overland content being too easy. Make a difficulty slider that you can change at any time per player. It wont affect other players at all except you are self nerfed. Just like Skyrim has, make it something like this...

Normal difficulty: base game difficulty
Hard: 200% enemy damage, -100% player damage
Harder: 300% enemy damage, -150% player damage
Very Hard: 400% enemy damage, -200% player damage
Nightmare: 800% enemy damage, -400% player damage

Nightmare would basically require a group of players at all times in over world.

No need for an AI overhaul or anything fancy like that, just don't make them HP sponges! Nobody likes that!

The issue of other players on Normal mode joining in and doing tons of damage with a player on a harder difficulty? Oh well, it is what it is. I don't see that as a huge issue. Joining a group with multiple players on diffirent difficulties? Just average out the damage and spread it amongst the players in said group. It would work.

Also, make a survival mode just like Skyrim and Fallout have. You have a hunger and thirst meter, weather affects your stats ect ect...

A survival ESO that is difficult? That would most likely make this my favorite MMORPG of all time!

It's definately do-able and doesn't seem like a ton of work to implement. For balancing? Who cares? It's an extra mode for those that want a challenge.

Iv'e tried getting my friends to play ESO throughout the years and they all have quit very shortly after playing and they all said the same thing. It's too easy and boring. Sure, it gets harder late game, but none of them want to even get to late game in the first place.

ZOS make it happen please, for the love of Talos!

disky

Muizer wrote: »

IMHO more challenging content would have to be added as extra encounters. Encounters with enemies that spawn near the player and attack immediately and that get harder the more of them you survive. And they would be 'opt in' or quest based in their own right. They could be assassins, daedra or who knows what. Surely there must be enough evil-doers in Tamriel to want to put out a contract on the 'Saviour of Nirn'.

That's a cool idea, but it's yet another one of those "let's try to appease people who want overland challenge by swerving left into something they never actually asked for" non-solutions. Forgive me but it's just not what anyone here is asking for. And as for your comment about changing the scope of encounters by adding more/different monsters, that's exactly what we're all trying to avoid. I don't want to create a situation in which players need to be separated by instance because they want a challenge. The only way to make it happen is by modifying buffs and debuffs on current monster spawns and I'm fine with that.

disky

Kendaric wrote: »

I think we have ignored the most important question so far... what are people willing to give up for a harder overland version?

Implementing it in whatever form requires resources, which in turn are a finite and therefore not available for other content. Though I do support an optional harder version, that support has limits. I'd be unwilling to give up a chapter, new skill line or class or a DLC story zone for it.
What I'd be willing to give up is dungeon DLC, as we have enough dungeons in game.

Considering the fact that I've avoided playing most of the overland story content because I don't find it entertaining or satisfying, I'd give up quite a bit. It would mean I'd finally get to do the thing I've wanted to do for years.

disky

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm curious how many that want a more difficult overland played at launch and played through the veteran levels that were Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold, then experienced Craglorn when it was introduced.

I did... once. It was a continuous struggle just questing. A player would easily and frequently die to trash mobs, and it was not unusual to be stuck for days on a quest boss. Somehow I completed all the zones then Craglorn was introduced.

Craglorn was so difficult that a player had to be in a full group just to quest. That alone was a struggle because it was next to impossible to find a group that wanted to quest and if we did they were never all on the same step of the same quest.

I had to leave the game because I literally couldn't do anything, and I wasn't alone. A lot of players left over the difficulty.

So when I hear that overland is too easy I will do my best to protect it from turning into something like that again.

Again, I personally have no interest in preventing you from enjoying the game as it is now. I just want to be able to enjoy it in my own way. And I'm certain that if a system were created that allowed us both to play together anyone else who wanted a different kind of challenge implementation would be completely fine with it.

disky

Silentverge wrote: »

There is an easy solution to the overland content being too easy. Make a difficulty slider that you can change at any time per player. It wont affect other players at all except you are self nerfed. Just like Skyrim has, make it something like this...

I don't want to fall into the "it's easy!" trap, but I agree, it doesn't seem like a handicap system would be too hard to implement. I'm sure there's a lot to consider though, for as complex a game as ESO is, with all of its gear and build variety. Anyway, I'd be more than happy to test it.

Silentverge

jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »

Silentverge wrote: »

There is an easy solution to the overland content being too easy. Make a difficulty slider that you can change at any time per player. It wont affect other players at all except you are self nerfed. Just like Skyrim has, make it something like this...

I don't want to fall into the "it's easy!" trap, but I agree, it doesn't seem like a handicap system would be too hard to implement. I'm sure there's a lot to consider though, for as complex a game as ESO is, with all of its gear and build variety. Anyway, I'd be more than happy to test it.

Well, the easiest and least time/resource consuming option IMO. Instead of changing every enemy AI in the overworld or making a veteran difficulty and splitting the player base or something like that.

RaptorRodeoGod

SilverBride wrote: »

Why not a slider or debuff for ALL content? Why is overland being targeted?

They could even make new achievements for using harder difficulty sliders in old content. Brand it as a new system

Kendaric

jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »

Considering the fact that I've avoided playing most of the overland story content because I don't find it entertaining or satisfying, I'd give up quite a bit. It would mean I'd finally get to do the thing I've wanted to do for years.

That's a pretty vague answer though.

Would you be willing to have no new chapter/content for a year? No PvP improvements (not that we had any )? No dungeon DLC? Depending on what it takes to implement a harder overland version that may very well be the price we'd all have to pay. Think about it and what it would mean for ESO as a business. It's not a decision ZOS will or should make lightly, regardless of how much a segment of the player base may want it.
And even if they'd end up doing it, there will be the question of "Will enough people use it?"...

Muizer

jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »

That's a cool idea, but it's yet another one of those "let's try to appease people who want overland challenge by swerving left into something they never actually asked for" non-solutions. Forgive me but it's just not what anyone here is asking for. And as for your comment about changing the scope of encounters by adding more/different monsters, that's exactly what we're all trying to avoid. I don't want to create a situation in which players need to be separated by instance because they want a challenge. The only way to make it happen is by modifying buffs and debuffs on current monster spawns and I'm fine with that.

I'm baffled. This is a complete misrepresentation of what I said. Did you quote the wrong post?

Silentverge

i love the people on here saying "the majority doesn't want harder difficulty!" yet theyr'e posting on a thread that had to be made in one place because so many people have been asking for a harder difficulty. lmao

SilverBride

Silentverge wrote: »

i love the people on here saying "the majority doesn't want harder difficulty!" yet theyr'e posting on a thread that had to be made in one place because so many people have been asking for a harder difficulty. lmao

That's not why they made this thread. The original post explains it.

Silentverge

SilverBride wrote: »

Silentverge wrote: »

i love the people on here saying "the majority doesn't want harder difficulty!" yet theyr'e posting on a thread that had to be made in one place because so many people have been asking for a harder difficulty. lmao

That's not why they made this thread. The original post explains it.

OP: "Hi All. We have seen the multitude of threads related to Overland Content..."


Edit: It seems the reason for this thread is twofold.

1) Like I said, there was a "multitude" of posts regarding harder difficulty.

2) Because people were crying about it.

and secret option 3) I think the OP hinted towards making a harder difficulty in the future.

Silentverge

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm curious how many that want a more difficult overland played at launch and played through the veteran levels that were Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold, then experienced Craglorn when it was introduced.

I did... once. It was a continuous struggle just questing. A player would easily and frequently die to trash mobs, and it was not unusual to be stuck for days on a quest boss. Somehow I completed all the zones then Craglorn was introduced.

Craglorn was so difficult that a player had to be in a full group just to quest. That alone was a struggle because it was next to impossible to find a group that wanted to quest and if we did they were never all on the same step of the same quest.

I had to leave the game because I literally couldn't do anything, and I wasn't alone. A lot of players left over the difficulty.

So when I hear that overland is too easy I will do my best to protect it from turning into something like that again.

I remember that, I personally enjoyed Cadwell's difficulty and did it with friends. I will agree that it was mostly too hard of content for most but that was like a 10/10 of difficulty when it should have been a 7 or 8 out of 10. Then they went and made overworld difficulty a -3/10. What I and others would like to see is a slider from -3-12 difficulty. Then everyone's happy.

disky

Kendaric wrote: »

jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »

Considering the fact that I've avoided playing most of the overland story content because I don't find it entertaining or satisfying, I'd give up quite a bit. It would mean I'd finally get to do the thing I've wanted to do for years.

That's a pretty vague answer though.

Would you be willing to have no new chapter/content for a year? No PvP improvements (not that we had any )? No dungeon DLC? Depending on what it takes to implement a harder overland version that may very well be the price we'd all have to pay. Think about it and what it would mean for ESO as a business. It's not a decision ZOS will or should make lightly, regardless of how much a segment of the player base may want it.
And even if they'd end up doing it, there will be the question of "Will enough people use it?"...

I really don't think it would require as many resources as either of those, but I would give them both up, because I'm not particularly interested in either anyway. Others might have different motivations but I really would like to play the story content in a way that feels satisfying.

SilverBride

Silentverge wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

That's not why they made this thread. The original post explains it.

OP: "Hi All. We have seen the multitude of threads related to Overland Content..."


Edit: It seems the reason for this thread is twofold.

1) Like I said, there was a "multitude" of posts regarding harder difficulty.

2) Because people were crying about it.

and secret option 3) I think the OP hinted towards making a harder difficulty in the future.

There would be a thread started asking for a veteran overland.
The thread would very quickly devolve and get closed.
Within the week another would pop up, all by the same small handful of posters.
This happened so often that posters would make comments about a week having gone by already when they saw a new thread.
It was doing nothing but creating a bad experience for many posters, so this thread was created to keep the discussion in one place.

There was no crying from anyone.

disky

Muizer wrote: »

jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »

That's a cool idea, but it's yet another one of those "let's try to appease people who want overland challenge by swerving left into something they never actually asked for" non-solutions. Forgive me but it's just not what anyone here is asking for. And as for your comment about changing the scope of encounters by adding more/different monsters, that's exactly what we're all trying to avoid. I don't want to create a situation in which players need to be separated by instance because they want a challenge. The only way to make it happen is by modifying buffs and debuffs on current monster spawns and I'm fine with that.

I'm baffled. This is a complete misrepresentation of what I said. Did you quote the wrong post?

Your post suggested a way to create challenge in overland that doesn't have anything to do with a "vet mode"/challenge mode/handicap system, which ZOS have tried multiple times and isn't what people in this thread are asking for. I like your idea, but it's just another attempt at giving people alternatives rather than making the current content more challenging to play.

disky

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Why not a slider or debuff for ALL content? Why is overland being targeted?

They could even make new achievements for using harder difficulty sliders in old content. Brand it as a new system

While I'm reluctant to show any interest in a reward system for increasing the challenge (because I don't want anyone to cry foul) I do think a base difficulty level with a difficulty scale would be a great idea, for everything but PvP, obviously.

Silentverge

SilverBride wrote: »

Silentverge wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

That's not why they made this thread. The original post explains it.

OP: "Hi All. We have seen the multitude of threads related to Overland Content..."


Edit: It seems the reason for this thread is twofold.

1) Like I said, there was a "multitude" of posts regarding harder difficulty.

2) Because people were crying about it.

and secret option 3) I think the OP hinted towards making a harder difficulty in the future.

There would be a thread started asking for a veteran overland.
The thread would very quickly devolve and get closed.
Within the week another would pop up, all by the same small handful of posters.
This happened so often that posters would make comments about a week having gone by already when they saw a new thread.
It was doing nothing but creating a bad experience for many posters, so this thread was created to keep the discussion in one place.

There was no crying from anyone.

People have been asking for harder overland content for years now. A lot of people. It is definately not a small group lol. If ZOS ever does add it, I guarantee a ton of new and returning players will start playing the game. I know about 5 or 6 of my friends that would return right now if they added it tomorrow.

Sakiri

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm curious how many that want a more difficult overland played at launch and played through the veteran levels that were Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold, then experienced Craglorn when it was introduced.

I did... once. It was a continuous struggle just questing. A player would easily and frequently die to trash mobs, and it was not unusual to be stuck for days on a quest boss. Somehow I completed all the zones then Craglorn was introduced.

Craglorn was so difficult that a player had to be in a full group just to quest. That alone was a struggle because it was next to impossible to find a group that wanted to quest and if we did they were never all on the same step of the same quest.

I had to leave the game because I literally couldn't do anything, and I wasn't alone. A lot of players left over the difficulty.

So when I hear that overland is too easy I will do my best to protect it from turning into something like that again.

Same.

Thats why I quit in the first place back in the first year.

Sakiri

So, suppose they add a slider.

What happens when someone with it off hits your mobs? Do they suddenly get screwed by a bullet sponge? Does the challenge monger's settings take over?

I just don't see it working. At all.

And obviously some of you don't want to do the stories bad enough or you'd do them regardless of difficulty. In no mmo ever have I played overland content for a challenge.

LunaFlora

Sakiri wrote: »

So, suppose they add a slider.

What happens when someone with it off hits your mobs? Do they suddenly get screwed by a bullet sponge? Does the challenge monger's settings take over?

I just don't see it working. At all.

And obviously some of you don't want to do the stories bad enough or you'd do them regardless of difficulty. In no mmo ever have I played overland content for a challenge.

i don't see that working either, but i see a debuff difficulty slider working just fine.

a debuff difficulty slider would just give you debuffs like Major Maim so you take more damage.

edit: major maim reduces your damage done.
Major Vulnerability increases damage taken.

Kendaric

LunaFlora wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

So, suppose they add a slider.

What happens when someone with it off hits your mobs? Do they suddenly get screwed by a bullet sponge? Does the challenge monger's settings take over?

I just don't see it working. At all.

And obviously some of you don't want to do the stories bad enough or you'd do them regardless of difficulty. In no mmo ever have I played overland content for a challenge.

i don't see that working either, but i see a debuff difficulty slider working just fine.

a debuff difficulty slider would just give you debuffs like Major Maim so you take more damage.

edit: major maim reduces your damage done.
Major Vulnerability increases damage taken.

Yes, that is exactly how a difficulty slider would work in a MMORPG. It would have to be more granular than just minor and major debuffs, but essentially that's how it works. It's basically just a question of what you want to call it

A difficulty slider like in TES single-player games that would amplify critter hitpoints and resistances/armor wouldn't work for obvious reasons

ADarklore

I see the same arguments continuing over and over and over again, just in a complete circle. The problem is, NO ONE can agree on what 'harder overland content' would actually be. Some want a slider, some want better rewards for doing harder, some want just a debuff, some want a complete enemy AI change for harder, etc, etc. If those who want harder content cannot even agree on what that actually means, ZOS is not going to devote scant resources to create something that may only appease a fraction of those who want harder content. Thus, leaving it as is, is their best option because at least people know what they have and won't create the, "but I wanted this" type of reaction when people didn't get the harder content type that they wanted.

Furthermore, considering the age of the game engine, which ZOS has said many many times is the reason why they cannot do certain things, I doubt creating a slider or forcing the game to switch enemies back and forth between normal/harder content players... would even be possible on this engine. It took them three years just to find the resources to add the Arcanist class, people just need to accept that the game is what it is, and either play it that way, or move on. Because I cannot see overland content ever getting changes because of the resource problem its already facing.