jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »I also don't want to force people to engage in adjusting their builds or consumables just to experience a higher level of challenge.
SilverBride wrote: »jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »I also don't want to force people to engage in adjusting their builds or consumables just to experience a higher level of challenge.
We already do that now.
Players don't just enter a Trial or other challenging content without getting the gear sets and adjusting their skills to be able to meet the challenge. The only difference is this gear and debuff foods would be increasing the challenge rather than just meeting it, because that is the desired effect.
A week or two? Not going to happen. Updating large and complex software, even with an update small in scope, takes more time (and planning) than that, and involves more than just a few software engineers.Silentverge wrote: »If I were in charge of creating the difficulty for ESO right now this is exactly what I would do:
Make a slider in the gameplay options menu for "Overworld Difficulty" have 5 different difficulties that you could change at anytime. Exactly like skyrim. All the slider would do is give you a debuff, less damage output and more damage taken respectively for all damage (even fall damage)
Boom done. and then put it on the PTS and tweek it as needed. This could literally be done in like a week or two tops.
A week or two? Not going to happen. Updating large and complex software, even with an update small in scope, takes more time (and planning) than that, and involves more than just a few software engineers.Silentverge wrote: »If I were in charge of creating the difficulty for ESO right now this is exactly what I would do:
Make a slider in the gameplay options menu for "Overworld Difficulty" have 5 different difficulties that you could change at anytime. Exactly like skyrim. All the slider would do is give you a debuff, less damage output and more damage taken respectively for all damage (even fall damage)
Boom done. and then put it on the PTS and tweek it as needed. This could literally be done in like a week or two tops.
jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »The difference is that people create builds to become more effective in their role/develop a style that suits their character. No one wants to create builds that do nothing but punish them, it's not fun or interesting. Challenge is fun for those who enjoy it, but we still want to engage with builds because they're a big part of what makes the game enjoyable to play and they add flavor to a character.
If you're going to create punishing gear then there has to be a benefit which makes it worthwhile, and once you've gotten to that point, you're going to have to start balancing against a whole host of builds when you could have instead utilized the global debuff code that already exists in the game for dungeons and PvP. To be honest, "cursed" gear sounds like it could be a cool idea, but not as an alternative to a proper challenge mode for overland, in my opinion.
SilverBride wrote: »What about a debuff food with different levels? Similar to the ambrosia we have now for gaining experience. So the player could choose just how much difficulty they want.
spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »What about a debuff food with different levels? Similar to the ambrosia we have now for gaining experience. So the player could choose just how much difficulty they want.
I'd be cool with that as long as it stacks with the food I can already eat. So, I could eat a crown meal AND that food, for example.
SilverBride wrote: »What about a debuff food with different levels? Similar to the ambrosia we have now for gaining experience. So the player could choose just how much difficulty they want.
FlopsyPrince wrote: »A thread I made on Harrowstorms was closed because of this never-ending thread?
That was disappointing since Harrowstorms definitely need tweaking and will not get any attention in the same arguments here.
Tuning something specific to make it doable by lesser participants is a different issue, at least in general. Tuning all of overland is very different than tuning a single item in 2 zones.
valenwood_vegan wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »A thread I made on Harrowstorms was closed because of this never-ending thread?
That was disappointing since Harrowstorms definitely need tweaking and will not get any attention in the same arguments here.
Tuning something specific to make it doable by lesser participants is a different issue, at least in general. Tuning all of overland is very different than tuning a single item in 2 zones.
No one in this thread can help you with what some moderator decided to do, but maybe you could add to the discussion by saying what it was that you wanted with harrowstorms?
ZOS_Hadeostry wrote: »https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8020639/#Comment_8020639
(I am not sure how to include the content from another thread.) Referencing it for anyone who wants to find what I wrote there. Not intending to cause problems if this is not allowed.
SilverBride wrote: »It's not punishing if it is giving the player the challenge they are looking for and aren't likely to get any other way.
SilverBride wrote: »This is what I don't understand.
Players create builds for participating in challenging content. Because of this their characters become stronger and more powerful. This in turn makes the less challenging story content of overland easier for them.
These players prefer to have more of a challenge while questing in overland but do not wish to remove one of the elements that is making overland easier for them.
Also, are all these characters not playing through overland until they have fully leveled and geared up? Is no one playing through the story at lower levels?
SilverBride wrote: »This is what I don't understand.
Players create builds for participating in challenging content. Because of this their characters become stronger and more powerful. This in turn makes the less challenging story content of overland easier for them.
These players prefer to have more of a challenge while questing in overland but do not wish to remove one of the elements that is making overland easier for them.
Also, are all these characters not playing through overland until they have fully leveled and geared up? Is no one playing through the story at lower levels?
Silentverge wrote: »I think what people want is to be able to play the overworld at higher lvls with decent gear and still have a challenge instead of having to handycap themselves.
Playing through the story from level 1 with no champion points enabled or any other tricks is still free of challenge, and I can confirm this because I've been doing it for the past few days.SilverBride wrote: »This is what I don't understand.
Players create builds for participating in challenging content. Because of this their characters become stronger and more powerful. This in turn makes the less challenging story content of overland easier for them.
These players prefer to have more of a challenge while questing in overland but do not wish to remove one of the elements that is making overland easier for them.
Also, are all these characters not playing through overland until they have fully leveled and geared up? Is no one playing through the story at lower levels?
It's not about being over-leveled, because enemies are scaled to player level. It's that, from Level 1 onward, the player is already incredibly powerful and they only become stronger over time. For a lot of people this is fine, they want to feel superhuman, but others don't. ZOS could address this by translating their challenge ideas from instanced PvE content and PvP, which already have debuffs and vet modes, into overland. Or they can do something else, but the point is the overland game doesn't ever meet the needs of players who prefer a challenge whether they're Level 1 or CP3600.Four_Fingers wrote: »Seriously they go and do things like grind Skyreach to hit max level in a couple days, then have a problem with being over leveled when they do overland quests. #facepalm
The content in Glenumbra hasn't changed since the last time I was there, which was years ago, but it is easier. Why? I think that the Arcanist is way over power, and I am way over skill.
jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »Playing through the story from level 1 with no champion points enabled or any other tricks is still free of challenge, and I can confirm this because I've been doing it for the past few days.SilverBride wrote: »This is what I don't understand.
Players create builds for participating in challenging content. Because of this their characters become stronger and more powerful. This in turn makes the less challenging story content of overland easier for them.
These players prefer to have more of a challenge while questing in overland but do not wish to remove one of the elements that is making overland easier for them.
Also, are all these characters not playing through overland until they have fully leveled and geared up? Is no one playing through the story at lower levels?
Players create builds because yes, becoming stronger is satisfying, but the right combinations of gear can also help improve quality of life or add flair to a character. I'm building an ice-focused Warden right now and I've been looking up sets with cool ice effects because I want to see them when I'm playing. It's more complex than number go up, but even if it were only that, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to engage in theorycrafting and improving your character while also experiencing challenge every step of the way. If your build can help to move you through it just a little bit more effectively or efficiently, that can be really satisfying.
Telling players that they just need to stop building strong characters is not a solution. The game should be able to meet its players' ability to overcome its challenges, and in other venues like instanced content, it does. There's no reason it can't do it in overland as well, as we have already agreed. By adding vet modes to instanced PvE content, ZOS has shown that they understand a desire to be challenged exists in the community and they simply need to extend their efforts to address those players' needs into the overland game.
jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »Telling players that they just need to stop building strong characters is not a solution.
jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »It's not about being over-leveled, because enemies are scaled to player level. It's that, from Level 1 onward, the player is already incredibly powerful and they only become stronger over time. For a lot of people this is fine, they want to feel superhuman, but others don't. ZOS could address this by translating their challenge ideas from instanced PvE content and PvP, which already have debuffs and vet modes, into overland. Or they can do something else, but the point is the overland game doesn't ever meet the needs of players who prefer a challenge whether they're Level 1 or CP3600.Four_Fingers wrote: »Seriously they go and do things like grind Skyreach to hit max level in a couple days, then have a problem with being over leveled when they do overland quests. #facepalm
jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »It's not about being over-leveled, because enemies are scaled to player level. It's that, from Level 1 onward, the player is already incredibly powerful and they only become stronger over time. For a lot of people this is fine, they want to feel superhuman, but others don't. ZOS could address this by translating their challenge ideas from instanced PvE content and PvP, which already have debuffs and vet modes, into overland. Or they can do something else, but the point is the overland game doesn't ever meet the needs of players who prefer a challenge whether they're Level 1 or CP3600.Four_Fingers wrote: »Seriously they go and do things like grind Skyreach to hit max level in a couple days, then have a problem with being over leveled when they do overland quests. #facepalm
Mobs aren't scaled to the player's level, they are static level 50 CP 160. It's the player that gets scaled scaled up if they're below that and there's the root of the problem as far as new characters are concerned. Since the game can't know how you'll place your attributes, they all get scaled up and thereby lead to the ridiculously powerful characters.
In addition, there's the problem of players having extensive knowledge and experience in playing the game as @Elsonso mentioned in his post. This is an issue ZOS won't be able to work around, even if they decide to create an optional harder overland.
They could, of course, do an extensive rework of virtually every mob in the game to have improved and new mechanics, but such a rework would have to be mandatory and you can bet that ESO would see a mass exodus of players.
So, even with a difficulty slider/toggle I doubt you'd be satisfied for long. Simply because you're too experienced (and probably too well equipped) to find a real challenge in overland content.
SilverBride wrote: »jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »Telling players that they just need to stop building strong characters is not a solution.
I never told anyone to stop building strong characters. Players need to become stronger and more powerful for doing end game content.
I am just saying gear appropriately for the content you are doing.
Players wouldn't go into a trial in trash gear with no good skills slotted, so they shouldn't go into overland questing in trial gear and expect it to be a challenge.
Players change their gear and builds all the time to fit the content they are participating in. This is what the armory station is for. Why is it any different to have an overland gear set and build?