Overland Content Feedback Thread

RaptorRodeoGod

Kendaric wrote: »

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Have they mentioned why they're adverse on an optional slider/PvE Battle Spirit? It's clear they don't like the idea because they haven't done anything regarding it. This is too long of a thread to sift through lol.

No, their only comment regarding anything related to challenging/difficult overland was that they have no plans to change it and don't want to split the player base. Well... and that Bastion Nymic is meant as one of their answers to address the matter.

They didn't mention anything regarding a slider as a solution at all.

Thank you! I get not wanting to split the player base, that point has been made loud and clear. However, Bastion Nymics don't incentivize anyone to re-play the amazing stories that they've made in the past.

Personally, I'd love to go through Year of the Dragon again, but I've tried more than once, and it feels like a drag, since I can literally put down one AoE and kill everything in sight. I haven't done any of High Isle, and never finished Summerset either for the same reason.

I'd be curious to hear their reasoning as to why a difficulty slider for Overland specifically is a no-go. Any chance @ZOS_Kevin could give us insight we may be missing? I'm sure others would appreciate the insight as well!

spartaxoxo

I honestly feel they don't understand the slider suggestion. The one time they mentioned, they discussed how they didn't want to split the playerbase, which is not what has been requested.

TaSheen

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I honestly feel they don't understand the slider suggestion. The one time they mentioned, they discussed how they didn't want to split the playerbase, which is not what has been requested.

Yah, that was the impression I got too....

Cersenin

I really like the stories in this game. If veteran mode for dungeons exists, why not make the quests in veteran mode so I can feel the danger, excitement, and thrill when I am fighting with the NPCs and bosses?

OtarTheMad

I get wanting more difficult things in the game, it’s not my playstyle but I see why players want it. Here is the issue though, maybe someone brought this up but sorry… not reading all those pages lol.

They already did difficult overland, I get the slider suggestion but I think that’d be too hard to do. At one point back in 2014, the old ZOS devs wanted this game more group/difficult. It really got to the point where a quest boss was as hard as veteran dungeon bosses are now. Problem with that is a they also had a system in place where the only people that could help you, if they could at all, had to be at the same exact point in the quest as you. They had Adventure Zones planned which were exactly like old Craglorn and honestly… that vision failed. No one was ever in the vet zones so no one could help you on that quest boss or world boss or dolmen because they either weren’t at the same point of a quest or the zone was empty.

This model honestly almost killed this game. Craglorn was primarily used for finding people for trials or players grinding to the next VR level, that’s it. Maybe they can add more things in for players who want harder content like maybe they have a completely separate instance… example: when you hit M you’ll see for choices Winterhold (Normal), and then Winterhold (Vet). I picked Winterhold randomly signifying that it should be on a new chapter first because I just think it’d be too tedious to go through the whole game to do this, but putting it as a chapter feature and doing it from then on is easier.

grewkshd

How many people actually complete Veteran trials with, for example, 50% the size of a standard raid group...That would be a challenge would it not?
What about Veteran arenas, with only one active set? No mythics? etc
What about Endless Archive? How far can you get solo with just 3 skills? Or duo with just two skills each?
Can you and a friend beat every vet dungeon, with just 1 skill each on your bars?

I don't think those wanting more challenging content, are always that serious though, as there's a lot in the game to challenge yourself with optionally, that they do not do, like a few mentioned above.
What they usually want, is harder content that offers unique rewards, to gatekeep others from getting them.

AlterBlika

grewkshd wrote: »

I don't think those wanting more challenging content, are always that serious though, as there's a lot in the game to challenge yourself with optionally, that they do not do, like a few mentioned above.
What they usually want, is harder content that offers unique rewards, to gatekeep others from getting them.

Yes, there's plenty of challenging content already. The thing is, we don't want overland to be difficult just because of it. There's content such as quests, delves, public dungeons, etc - which just aren't worth doing when they're so easy. It's unengaging, not fun. I don't like playing a visual novel. I could only possibly enjoy these activies if I went there almost naked

SilverBride

AlterBlika wrote: »

There's content such as quests, delves, public dungeons, etc - which just aren't worth doing when they're so easy. It's unengaging, not fun.

I find it a lot of fun to feel like the strong hero they say I am.

AlterBlika wrote: »

I don't like playing a visual novel.

I enjoy a stress free walk through the story. When I want a challenge I know where to find it.


Overland is the only part of this game that isn't tailored to be a challenge. There are normal and veteran dungeons and trials, and the last 2 new features, Bastion Nymics and the Endless Archive, are challenging. Our last and only relaxing content should be left alone.

Cersenin

SilverBride wrote: »

AlterBlika wrote: »

There's content such as quests, delves, public dungeons, etc - which just aren't worth doing when they're so easy. It's unengaging, not fun.

I find it a lot of fun to feel like the strong hero they say I am.

AlterBlika wrote: »

I don't like playing a visual novel.

I enjoy a stress free walk through the story. When I want a challenge I know where to find it.


Overland is the only part of this game that isn't tailored to be a challenge. There are normal and veteran dungeons and trials, and the last 2 new features, Bastion Nymics and the Endless Archive, are challenging. Our last and only relaxing content should be left alone.

My suggestion was to have quests in normal mode, where you can walk around and listen to the story (as it already is), and the same quests in veteran mode, where the story shines and gets its true value! I don't think that this is too difficult to achieve, and for sure, this will not affect the other players who want to get through the quests without any challenges.

LunaFlora

Cersenin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

AlterBlika wrote: »

There's content such as quests, delves, public dungeons, etc - which just aren't worth doing when they're so easy. It's unengaging, not fun.

I find it a lot of fun to feel like the strong hero they say I am.

AlterBlika wrote: »

I don't like playing a visual novel.

I enjoy a stress free walk through the story. When I want a challenge I know where to find it.


Overland is the only part of this game that isn't tailored to be a challenge. There are normal and veteran dungeons and trials, and the last 2 new features, Bastion Nymics and the Endless Archive, are challenging. Our last and only relaxing content should be left alone.

My suggestion was to have quests in normal mode, where you can walk around and listen to the story (as it already is), and the same quests in veteran mode, where the story shines and gets its true value! I don't think that this is too difficult to achieve, and for sure, this will not affect the other players who want to get through the quests without any challenges.

Cersenin wrote: »

I really like the stories in this game. If veteran mode for dungeons exists, why not make the quests in veteran mode so I can feel the danger, excitement, and thrill when I am fighting with the NPCs and bosses?

dungeons are separate instances that only people in your group can join you in.

quests are in zones anyone can be in, very few quests are in completely separate instances.
the few that are could be veteran sure.
but you're probably not just referring to those parts of quests, right?

for most people the story already shines and already gets its true value.

and how would you have veteran mode for quests without a separate veteran version of the zone?


a veteran mode of zones would split the playerbase as that would be a completely separate instance.

optional sure, but it would make finding help with overland activities like world bosses or dragons way harder.

a debuff slider is a good way to make overland more challenging without splitting the playerbase.

Cersenin

LunaFlora wrote: »

Cersenin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

AlterBlika wrote: »

There's content such as quests, delves, public dungeons, etc - which just aren't worth doing when they're so easy. It's unengaging, not fun.

I find it a lot of fun to feel like the strong hero they say I am.

AlterBlika wrote: »

I don't like playing a visual novel.

I enjoy a stress free walk through the story. When I want a challenge I know where to find it.


Overland is the only part of this game that isn't tailored to be a challenge. There are normal and veteran dungeons and trials, and the last 2 new features, Bastion Nymics and the Endless Archive, are challenging. Our last and only relaxing content should be left alone.

My suggestion was to have quests in normal mode, where you can walk around and listen to the story (as it already is), and the same quests in veteran mode, where the story shines and gets its true value! I don't think that this is too difficult to achieve, and for sure, this will not affect the other players who want to get through the quests without any challenges.

Cersenin wrote: »

I really like the stories in this game. If veteran mode for dungeons exists, why not make the quests in veteran mode so I can feel the danger, excitement, and thrill when I am fighting with the NPCs and bosses?

dungeons are separate instances that only people in your group can join you in.

quests are in zones anyone can be in, very few quests are in completely separate instances.
the few that are could be veteran sure.
but you're probably not just referring to those parts of quests, right?

for most people the story already shines and already gets its true value.

and how would you have veteran mode for quests without a separate veteran version of the zone?


a veteran mode of zones would split the playerbase as that would be a completely separate instance.

optional sure, but it would make finding help with overland activities like world bosses or dragons way harder.

a debuff slider is a good way to make overland more challenging without splitting the playerbase.

A solution is to have an option when starting the quest, "normal mode" or "veteran mode", and in veteran mode, the NPCs and bosses to be hard to kill. For me, a story where you kill the last boss in three seconds is boring, the story loses its charm, it's stupid, it's like... "That's all??"

LunaFlora

Cersenin wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

Cersenin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

AlterBlika wrote: »

There's content such as quests, delves, public dungeons, etc - which just aren't worth doing when they're so easy. It's unengaging, not fun.

I find it a lot of fun to feel like the strong hero they say I am.

AlterBlika wrote: »

I don't like playing a visual novel.

I enjoy a stress free walk through the story. When I want a challenge I know where to find it.


Overland is the only part of this game that isn't tailored to be a challenge. There are normal and veteran dungeons and trials, and the last 2 new features, Bastion Nymics and the Endless Archive, are challenging. Our last and only relaxing content should be left alone.

My suggestion was to have quests in normal mode, where you can walk around and listen to the story (as it already is), and the same quests in veteran mode, where the story shines and gets its true value! I don't think that this is too difficult to achieve, and for sure, this will not affect the other players who want to get through the quests without any challenges.

Cersenin wrote: »

I really like the stories in this game. If veteran mode for dungeons exists, why not make the quests in veteran mode so I can feel the danger, excitement, and thrill when I am fighting with the NPCs and bosses?

dungeons are separate instances that only people in your group can join you in.

quests are in zones anyone can be in, very few quests are in completely separate instances.
the few that are could be veteran sure.
but you're probably not just referring to those parts of quests, right?

for most people the story already shines and already gets its true value.

and how would you have veteran mode for quests without a separate veteran version of the zone?


a veteran mode of zones would split the playerbase as that would be a completely separate instance.

optional sure, but it would make finding help with overland activities like world bosses or dragons way harder.

a debuff slider is a good way to make overland more challenging without splitting the playerbase.

A solution is to have an option when starting the quest, "normal mode" or "veteran mode", and in veteran mode, the NPCs and bosses to be hard to kill. For me, a story where you kill the last boss in three seconds is boring, the story loses its charm, it's stupid, it's like... "That's all??"

but most quest enemies aren't in a separate instance.
the majority are out and about in the zone or in a delve.

the final bosses often are in a separate instance. you probably won't be able to get a veteran mode for any other quest enemies. as zos and most players don't want the playerbase split in zones.

though i really love being able to kill bosses kinda fast because The Vestige is supposed to be powerful and the story doesn't lose its charm for me

Gray_howling_parrot

The good parts of the questing and story experience are founded in the voice acting and *some* of the stories.

The problem with ESO story telling is honestly the scaling. Because of the scaling and them striving to allow any player at any level to play through it, all of the stories in the game are compartmentalized into their zone and are between 8-16 quests so you really don't have any big "climax" or anything. You also aren't given enough time to actually care about any of the characters. Somebody dies that you met from 3 quests ago? Whoopty-doo. The other part with the scaling is that when questing, they want somebody that picked the game up 30 minutes ago to be able to do the content, so theres absolutely no danger whatsoever. You get this feeling that you're "powerful" sure, but there's never a feeling of struggle, no fear, no accomplishment when you kill the big bad.

SilverBride

Cooperharley wrote: »

You get this feeling that you're "powerful" sure, but there's never a feeling of struggle, no fear, no accomplishment when you kill the big bad.

I feel powerful because I can easily deal with these bad guys that the NPCs have come to me for help with. And I do feel a sense of accomplishment for doing so.

I will never understand how struggling is enjoyable for some.

pecheckler

Implement veteran mode overland content already. Overland content is too easy!!

ImmortalCX

AlterBlika wrote: »

grewkshd wrote: »

I don't think those wanting more challenging content, are always that serious though, as there's a lot in the game to challenge yourself with optionally, that they do not do, like a few mentioned above.
What they usually want, is harder content that offers unique rewards, to gatekeep others from getting them.

Yes, there's plenty of challenging content already. The thing is, we don't want overland to be difficult just because of it. There's content such as quests, delves, public dungeons, etc - which just aren't worth doing when they're so easy. It's unengaging, not fun. I don't like playing a visual novel. I could only possibly enjoy these activies if I went there almost naked

This has nothing to do with gatekeeping. Its about replay value, for me.

If I'm leveling up a new character, I want that feeling of being weak and building up my strength. Being able to go new places that I couldn't before.

The system wouldn't have to be linear and hard gating. There would still be plenty to do in beginner zones, or mid-level zones. Or, if they want to go to the harder zones, they would need to maintain the buff by resting frequently so the world stays leveled. But every once in a while, a low level character would get the feeling, "I probably shouldn't be here."

colossalvoids

SilverBride wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

You get this feeling that you're "powerful" sure, but there's never a feeling of struggle, no fear, no accomplishment when you kill the big bad.

I feel powerful because I can easily deal with these bad guys that the NPCs have come to me for help with. And I do feel a sense of accomplishment for doing so.

I will never understand how struggling is enjoyable for some.

And we don't feel that accomplishment, that's the point. Not everyone enjoys visual novel style of pay in elder scrolls universe.

And you don't need to understand us either, it's a request to make the game mode suitable for people who want this thing, not for ones who adamantly against it and want to have their overland for themselves without any change.

When something minor as EA is not inclusive enough it's fine, as it's suited for a certain audience who enjoys certain style of play (arenas to be exact) but when major chunk of released content, the main attraction is plain boring for a lot of folks it's not really a fine situation that can be just left alone and not being spoken about. People not only quit because difficulty, they quit because the game is too easy for them. And no amount of instanced content would cure a bad quest design or unengaging combat intertwined in that formula.

It's designed around ability to be quick, easily completed and being understandable right out of tutorial gate and not around enjoyment, fun or any of those abstract metrics that differ from person to person. You're having fun, others don't, so that would be a good idea to start making the main attraction actually attractive for other side of spectrum. It's an investment that should start sooner or later if they want to retain and gain players, it's just a matter of time if they're willing to stay afloat long term.

LunaFlora

ImmortalCX wrote: »

AlterBlika wrote: »

grewkshd wrote: »

I don't think those wanting more challenging content, are always that serious though, as there's a lot in the game to challenge yourself with optionally, that they do not do, like a few mentioned above.
What they usually want, is harder content that offers unique rewards, to gatekeep others from getting them.

Yes, there's plenty of challenging content already. The thing is, we don't want overland to be difficult just because of it. There's content such as quests, delves, public dungeons, etc - which just aren't worth doing when they're so easy. It's unengaging, not fun. I don't like playing a visual novel. I could only possibly enjoy these activies if I went there almost naked

This has nothing to do with gatekeeping. Its about replay value, for me.

If I'm leveling up a new character, I want that feeling of being weak and building up my strength. Being able to go new places that I couldn't before.

The system wouldn't have to be linear and hard gating. There would still be plenty to do in beginner zones, or mid-level zones. Or, if they want to go to the harder zones, they would need to maintain the buff by resting frequently so the world stays leveled. But every once in a while, a low level character would get the feeling, "I probably shouldn't be here."

yea i don't think zos wants a player to get the feeling in any zone "i probably shouldn't be here."
nor do most players.

it would be pretty awful if the next chapter zone had overland monsters that a brand new player couldn't manage to defeat and felt "i probably shouldn't be here.",
why would you want that?


making specific zones harder than others would exclude people (and probably cause people to refund chapters) and veteran mode for zones would split the playerbase.

a debuff slider is completely personal and does not affect anyone but you.
you get debuffs so monsters are harder and everyone else is unaffected unless they also choose to struggle with debuffs.

spartaxoxo

colossalvoids wrote: »

When something minor as EA is not inclusive enough it's fine, as it's suited for a certain audience who enjoys certain style of play (arenas to be exact) but when major chunk of released content, the main attraction is plain boring for a lot of folks it's not really a fine situation that can be just left alone and not being spoken about.

Endless Archive is a major chunk of content. It is not minor at all. It was deemed a large enough deal to kill the release of not 1 but 2 dlc. This includes an entire story zone.

Whether questing or the entire rest of the game is major is a matter of preference, tbh. There are more quests numerically, but they are one and done content. They take up only a few hours. Meanwhile, end game content is generally meant to be repeated. So it takes up a lot more time.

I spend much more of time in repeatable content than questing, tbh, at least in terms of real gameplay.

colossalvoids

spartaxoxo wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

When something minor as EA is not inclusive enough it's fine, as it's suited for a certain audience who enjoys certain style of play (arenas to be exact) but when major chunk of released content, the main attraction is plain boring for a lot of folks it's not really a fine situation that can be just left alone and not being spoken about.

Endless Archive is a major chunk of content. It is not minor at all. It was deemed a large enough deal to kill the release of not 1 but 2 dlc. This includes an entire story zone.

Whether questing or the entire rest of the game is major is a matter of preference, tbh. There are more quests numerically, but they are one and done content. They take up only a few hours. Meanwhile, end game content is generally meant to be repeated. So it takes up a lot more time.

I spend much more of time in repeatable content than questing, tbh, at least in terms of real gameplay.

Surely it's a perception thing, to someone BRP was a major chunk of content compared to Murkmire, or dungeons compared to Overland zones, but I'd doubt many operate from the same point of view, being an elder scrolls game. Might be wrong though. To me whole Overland or even one chapter zone is way significant thing compared to EA, which is an extended arena with little to no lore for me personally. And it's surely not up the scale of any previous release, hence the base game implementation.

As far as I'm aware nothing was "killed" for it, content is planned years ahead and we have no mines of what potentially was killed off. We also have no idea why other teams weren't involved much this year apart from the chapter release and will be able to guess at the very least after next jubilee year of ESO, which might be the reason by itself.

Anyways it doesn't help people asking for something to be done in overland zones, as the "main" experience isn't altered in any way.

spartaxoxo

colossalvoids wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

When something minor as EA is not inclusive enough it's fine, as it's suited for a certain audience who enjoys certain style of play (arenas to be exact) but when major chunk of released content, the main attraction is plain boring for a lot of folks it's not really a fine situation that can be just left alone and not being spoken about.

Endless Archive is a major chunk of content. It is not minor at all. It was deemed a large enough deal to kill the release of not 1 but 2 dlc. This includes an entire story zone.

Whether questing or the entire rest of the game is major is a matter of preference, tbh. There are more quests numerically, but they are one and done content. They take up only a few hours. Meanwhile, end game content is generally meant to be repeated. So it takes up a lot more time.

I spend much more of time in repeatable content than questing, tbh, at least in terms of real gameplay.

Surely it's a perception thing, to someone BRP was a major chunk of content compared to Murkmire, or dungeons compared to Overland zones, but I'd doubt many operate from the same point of view, being an elder scrolls game. Might be wrong though. To me whole Overland or even one chapter zone is way significant thing compared to EA, which is an extended arena with little to no lore for me personally. And it's surely not up the scale of any previous release, hence the base game implementation.

As far as I'm aware nothing was "killed" for it, content is planned years ahead and we have no mines of what potentially was killed off. We also have no idea why other teams weren't involved much this year apart from the chapter release and will be able to guess at the very least after next jubilee year of ESO, which might be the reason by itself.

They told us they killed off those DLCs to focus on giving us systems and qol. Their goal was to shift away from quests being so much of the new release content to having more major systems in place too. Endless Archive is the first major system under this new content goal.

Now that we have hundreds and hundreds (and hundreds!) of hours of questing content, enough for four or five regular RPGs, we are hearing from our new players that the sheer number of zones and stories and characters is intimidating. And, on the other hand, our veteran players consistently tell us that they would like more content that isn't played through just once—they would like more content they can enjoy for years; content that utilizes our already existing zones to add new things to do, and most importantly, introduces some new gameplay.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/63363

Also Endless Archive isn't the only time this will happen. For an undetermined amount of time, story dlc will no longer be a thing. Instead, we'll get large tent pole systems. So, expect another large system next year as well.

So, below is the 2023 content cadence. Please note that the first half of the year remains essentially unchanged, but the second half of the year now has an update devoted to addressing issues/quality of life improvements and an update devoted to a large new tentpole system.

Looking back at ESO's evolution since 2014, you can see that we often shake things up, try new things, and make changes as needed. So, we will assess how this new cadence is received—both by the development team and in the community. If we have to make more adjustments, we will.

Anyway back to this point....

colossalvoids wrote: »

Anyways it doesn't help people asking for something to be done in overland zones, as the "main" experience isn't altered in any way.

It depends on what is requested. I do support a challenge banner and slider ala LOTRO, as I don't believe those negatively effect anyone else's experience.

joergino

spartaxoxo wrote: »

[
Also Endless Archive isn't the only time this will happen. For an undetermined amount of time, story dlc will no longer be a thing. Instead, we'll get large tent pole systems. So, expect another large system next year as well.

(...)

Endless Archive is the first major system under this new content goal.

But this Endless Archive isn't a system at all, even less a "large tent pole system". It is just yet another absolutely horrible arena. There is nothing "major" about it either. Apart from it being a major pain, perhaps.

I guess I have to live with all new content apart from the new area quests not being made for me. I know I wrote this earlier, but the miserable archive experience actually brought me close to actually uninstalling this piece of software. I guess it could be somewhat tolerable if all my friends hadn't been driven off by all the bad decisions taken in the last two or three years.

spartaxoxo

joergino wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

[
Also Endless Archive isn't the only time this will happen. For an undetermined amount of time, story dlc will no longer be a thing. Instead, we'll get large tent pole systems. So, expect another large system next year as well.

(...)

Endless Archive is the first major system under this new content goal.

But this Endless Archive isn't a system at all, even less a "large tent pole system". It is just yet another absolutely horrible arena. There is nothing "major" about it either. Apart from it being a major pain, perhaps.

I guess I have to live with all new content apart from the new area quests not being made for me. I know I wrote this earlier, but the miserable archive experience actually brought me close to actually uninstalling this piece of software. I guess it could be somewhat tolerable if all my friends hadn't been drive off by all the bad decisions taken in the last two or three years.

I would consider it a system, even if system didn't just mean repeatable. It has level of variety that regular arenas just don't. It has own currency. Etc. etc. I think I'll be using it a lot, even though I don't think it's quite perfect yet.

I really like EA. I'm sorry that you didn't enjoy your time with it. I hope next year brings something you would enjoy. I see no reason we can't at least have a debuff slider to make Overland more inclusive for more types of players.

Maitsukas

joergino wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

[
Also Endless Archive isn't the only time this will happen. For an undetermined amount of time, story dlc will no longer be a thing. Instead, we'll get large tent pole systems. So, expect another large system next year as well.

(...)

Endless Archive is the first major system under this new content goal.

But this Endless Archive isn't a system at all, even less a "large tent pole system". It is just yet another absolutely horrible arena. There is nothing "major" about it either. Apart from it being a major pain, perhaps.

I guess I have to live with all new content apart from the new area quests not being made for me. I know I wrote this earlier, but the miserable archive experience actually brought me close to actually uninstalling this piece of software. I guess it could be somewhat tolerable if all my friends hadn't been drive off by all the bad decisions taken in the last two or three years.

Pretty sure it was mentioned that EA would have more Class Sets in the future. And this is just a guess, but they may even add more Cycle Bosses to the current 65+ in there.

joergino

Maitsukas wrote: »

Pretty sure it was mentioned that EA would have more Class Sets in the future. And this is just a guess, but they may even add more Cycle Bosses to the current 65+ in there.

This wouldn't change anything. Still only an arena

TaSheen

As a long-time player of not only single player games but MMOs, I've come to the realization that there will always be someone feeling "left out, overlooked, spitefully ignored".

It's one of those things - we may play in fantasy worlds, but the real world is very much involved - because game developers make games IN the real world, and it's just a given that not everything game devs produce is going to make absolutely everyone happy.

Personally, the entire Greymoor year was nothing I cared about as far as quest content, and I still don't. I don't go there much - antiquities, because THAT was the only thing (other than the Alpine Gallery) that I have any use for. But then there was Blackwood and High Isle, so I got stuff I loved again. Now we had Necrom, and while I really have no use for anything Dunmeri, the inclusion of Mora and Apocrypha worked for me.

No game can ever be all things to everyone who plays it. It's usually a really good idea to take the stuff one doesn't appreciate as at the very least keeping people (others who DO like it) in the world, and just hang on until something more to one's taste is released.

Or like many people I know, go find something else to play when one is bummed about current content. Lots of people take breaks....

Braffin

@TaSheen I wholeheartedly agree. Playing in a shared world also means making compromises, so players of various type get the playground they enjoy.

That's why it's especially baffling to see some of the biggest opponents of any changes to overland difficulty demanding nerfs for EA, which was specifically made as challenging content for all those unsatisfied with overland.

That's rather selfish and greedy behaviour and imo the biggest issue this community has.

TaSheen

@Braffin - I know, it's kind of unsettling in a way. Now, I'm not really interested in mega-difficult overland, but I did finally get to the point (now this is going to sound weird to a LOT of people) after U35 (yes, the despised U35....) that if they want to up the difficulty in overland some, it's fine with me.

U35, despised as it may be by many, gave me the opportunity to rework my setups for at least my wardens and sorcs (the classes I play most - that is, pet classes, as with my satellite mega ping having the pets is really key to my enjoyment of the game). I added some armor with wards, and twiddled with regen options, and right now, I'm getting ready to take a CP 360+ back through Blackwood and see if it won't be less of a slog when I get her to Vandacia (where my first dozen tries at him - um - left me dead and not really wanting to go back....)

And after that, assuming it goes better this time, I'm going to take her to High Isle and see how the Ascendant Magus fight goes.... These boss fights are a problem for me because of satellite lag - by the time I see the prompt to use the NPC "extras" they're no longer available. So sometimes it's REALLY hard to stay alive.

But I'm nothing if not stubborn so.... we'll see. In any case, I really don't care any more what they do with overland. I'll figure it out.

spartaxoxo

Braffin wrote: »

That's why it's especially baffling to see some of the biggest opponents of any changes to overland difficulty demanding nerfs for EA, which was specifically made as challenging content for all those unsatisfied with overland.

Most everyone agrees that something should be done to make the game more enjoyable for vet players (which they are not), and they also want the early arcs for their own enjoyment.

Wanting both changed is pretty consistent philosophy in terms of inclusion.

It's like there's more than one way to cook an egg. Hating omelets is not the same thing as refusing to cook eggs. You can poach them, scramble them, etc.

Same difference between overland difficulty. Not wanting a separate instance is NOT the same thing as wanting nothing to be done.

Braffin

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

That's why it's especially baffling to see some of the biggest opponents of any changes to overland difficulty demanding nerfs for EA, which was specifically made as challenging content for all those unsatisfied with overland.

Most everyone agrees that something should be done to make the game more enjoyable for vet players (which they are not), and they also want the early arcs for their own enjoyment.

Wanting both changed is pretty consistent philosophy in terms of inclusion.

It's like there's more than one way to cook an egg. Hating omelets is not the same thing as refusing to cook eggs. You can poach them, scramble them, etc.

Same difference between overland difficulty. Not wanting a separate instance is NOT the same thing as wanting nothing to be done.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. That's not what I see when reading the corresponding threads.

I won't cite anyone tho, as that would most probably get snipped anyways.