All Dungeons with Story Mode

phaneub17_ESO

They adjusted most of the story quests in dungeon to be skippable to the very end, there's a few that still need some interaction with NPCs but the talk with NPCs are optional for the majority. City of Ash 1 still needs you to talk to the NPC before killing the 3 area bosses or it doesn't count unfortunately, others you only need to talk to the first person at the front of the dungeon and kill the boss at the end to get credit for it.

corrosivechains

No(reasons in the comments)

spartaxoxo wrote: »

corrosivechains wrote: »

I went no with reasons though I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea. Like if it were purely a story mode with gear adjusted to that level of difficulty, then sure, go nuts...but one thing I do think a lot of the solo/single-player community in this game does also need to realize, since the argument is based on the idea of players not getting to see the content the developers designed...this content WAS designed for group play and nerfing it down to just a "story mode" is just as egregious as rushing through it is in that regard. There was effort put into designing the content for groups, just as much as there was effort put into designing it around the stories they're involved with.

The stories may have been designed for group play, but they made it next to impossible for most groups to fully hear the story. So the current group play design of the story is poorly implemented, since it's easy for even one person in a group not wanting to participate in that content to ruin it for everyone else. Beyond that, it's a bad idea to have story be made for groups to hear anyway because everyone reads at their own pace or have different reactions to different voices. One person may love a characters voice, the other may find it like nails on a chalkboard and skip that part.

Other games have realized this and implemented story modes, or put in safeguards to ensure that one person cannot make others skip the stories. So for example, they'll have a cutscene that completely takes over gameplay and then the team has to unanimously vote to skip it. The system that ZOS currently has in place is completely nonconducive to seeing group story, so I don't believe it's a real thing to take into consideration. Groups don't see the story and none of the stories are enhanced by being in a group, so that design choice is badly implemented anyway.

That's why I qualified that I'm not actually against the idea entirely, and not even opposed to some rewards for it. But there still was an effort put into the design around the idea that it would be played in groups and that IS every bit as an important bit of information as is that there was also effort put into the design of the story.

The VAST majority of videogames are and have been developed around single-player, those who want that experience already have the Lion's Share when it comes to the medium.

spartaxoxo

Yes that will be awesome!

corrosivechains wrote: »

That's why I qualified that I'm not actually against the idea entirely, and not even opposed to some rewards for it. But there still was an effort put into the design around the idea that it would be played in groups and that IS every bit as an important bit of information as is that there was also effort put into the design of the story.

The VAST majority of videogames are and have been developed around single-player, those who want that experience already have the Lion's Share when it comes to the medium.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's important information when the way they implemented it is so wildly bad at their original goal, and broken beyond repair. They can't implement solutions like the cutscene example because of the way dungeons are designed and the stories are also already not enhanced by group members, so clinging to that is just sunken cost fallacy in my own opinion.

wishlist14

Yes that will be awesome!

I voted yes because there is a definite desire for this in the eso community. I have heard many comments about wanting this outside these forums, ingame. There are even a couple of guilds that run story mode dungeons do yes the need is there.

comicfan22

Yes that will be awesome!

I would like a story mode for dungeons myself. BUT I want it repeatable with no rewards and a repeatable quest like a daily. I would love to relive choices and just be able to chill out sometimes. Give us the skill point and rewards in normal group mode but just let me zen out sometime and chill!

corrosivechains

No(reasons in the comments)

spartaxoxo wrote: »

corrosivechains wrote: »

That's why I qualified that I'm not actually against the idea entirely, and not even opposed to some rewards for it. But there still was an effort put into the design around the idea that it would be played in groups and that IS every bit as an important bit of information as is that there was also effort put into the design of the story.

The VAST majority of videogames are and have been developed around single-player, those who want that experience already have the Lion's Share when it comes to the medium.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's important information when the way they implemented it is so wildly bad at their original goal, and broken beyond repair. They can't implement solutions like the cutscene example because of the way dungeons are designed and the stories are also already not enhanced by group members, so clinging to that is just sunken cost fallacy in my own opinion.

I suppose we will then. Honestly if I were a suit reading over these types of "everything should cater to soloers" threads, I'd be salivating. It definitely sends the message that there's a market for always online single player games that gamers themselves don't own, with endless possibilities for microtransactions. I think that, at least, is something we CAN agree none of us actually want in gaming.

kargen27

I wouldn't mind seeing a story mode. I think the rewards should be the same as the delves in the zone. Basically you would get overland gear not dungeon gear. I've done the stories in most dungeons because I was lucky enough to be in a guild that runs story mode groups. Still fun to go in sometimes and just roam around taking screen shots and goofing off for a while. Some dungeons are really well designed aesthetically and it is a shame more players do not enjoy that.

spartaxoxo

Yes that will be awesome!

corrosivechains wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

corrosivechains wrote: »

That's why I qualified that I'm not actually against the idea entirely, and not even opposed to some rewards for it. But there still was an effort put into the design around the idea that it would be played in groups and that IS every bit as an important bit of information as is that there was also effort put into the design of the story.

The VAST majority of videogames are and have been developed around single-player, those who want that experience already have the Lion's Share when it comes to the medium.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's important information when the way they implemented it is so wildly bad at their original goal, and broken beyond repair. They can't implement solutions like the cutscene example because of the way dungeons are designed and the stories are also already not enhanced by group members, so clinging to that is just sunken cost fallacy in my own opinion.

I suppose we will then. Honestly if I were a suit reading over these types of "everything should cater to soloers" threads, I'd be salivating. It definitely sends the message that there's a market for always online single player games that gamers themselves don't own, with endless possibilities for microtransactions. I think that, at least, is something we CAN agree none of us actually want in gaming.

Yeah, I don't want that. I am not even completely opposed to group stories in general, just not the way it's implemented here. Something like in Overwatch, the archives missions, for me is a better way to handle that. It has the aforementioned cutscene skip vote, and I think it's a breath of fresh air. A group that's seen it all a million times before doesn't have to hear it. A group that has someone that wants to see it, can see it. Although I admit sometimes I get annoyed when someone doesn't skip, lol. But that's my only own problem and not an actual design flaw.

I just don't think it's workable in this game in particular, due to the way dungeons are organized and the way loot works.

lolo_01b16_ESO

I don't care

I'd prefer to see a nightmare mode (that is noticably harder than current veteran hardmode) but if it makes more people happy, why not add more different difficulties for dungeons and raids, so everyone can play at the difficulty that he likes.

TheImperfect

Yes that will be awesome!

Yep, needs doing!

bmnoble

Yes that will be awesome!

Part of me would prefer the move the skill point reward to beating the final boss of the dungeon rather than completing the quest, having it linked to the quest almost always forces you to rush through the dialogue, just to keep up with your group.

Got no problem with a story mode think it should unlock after someone has beaten the dungeon in normal first though, as in killed the last boss not completed the quest.

Story mode should have no chests and no set drops.

Soulshine

Malthorne wrote: »

Yes please. I know that most dungeons are easily solo’d with the exception of the few with group mechanics and some DLC dungeons.

Here’s the thing about the DLC dungeons, the patch just came out and I have not seen seen any discussion about them at all. Why is that? Perhaps making them more accessible to solo oriented players could help increase engagement with the new content and sell a lot more dungeons packs/eso plus in the process.

What's there to say? They are pretty much the same as any of the others and frankly even on vet they are fairly tame compared to some other DLCs we have already seen. The HMs are fun, if you have a team that's up to it but again, like other dlc hms, not something you would want to do in a pug.

Dread Cellar was for me far more interesting that the Red Petal Bastion, but only by a degree. I was not thrilled to have to be a goat for one of the boss fights in RPB, lol. The main thing that sets them both apart from other dungeons is that they decided to add "secret bosses" which are not really secret. You complete a portal opening with your teammates to access them. There are three along the way in the dungeon. Once you have killed each of them, they will be available to help you fight the last boss, but none of this is needed, even on vet. They are nice to have for the HM.

AcadianPaladin

Yes that will be awesome!

I think it's a fine idea. I don't care a skeever's butt what the loot policy would be since that is not why I enjoy dungeons.

The fact that I can indeed solo a fair number of non-dlc dungeons has nothing to do with story mode. I certainly didn't gain that ability until I had already run the dungeon with a group, scared to death, petrified of letting my group down and clicking anything to progress me along as fast as I could. Most of the time, I 'completed' the story but had not a clue what I had just done since staying alive not disappointing my group was my only priority. By the time I could solo the same dungeon, whatever story there was involved was ancient history and lost forever.

Also relevant is that such an option hurts no one. For anyone who would skip group running dungeons because of this, I imagine there is another player who, after running it solo and getting a feel for it, might be able to muster up the courage to try it under the scrutiny of a group. It took me a long time to enter my first dungeon and much of that was fear of the unknown.

ofalltheworlds

Yes that will be awesome!

I think it's a great idea! I would love to be able to know what the stories are for some of the DLC dungeons, and a story mode would not prevent me from running the dungeons on normal mode (I have not tried vet mode yet). I think no keys/set drops/etc would be fair, since those are incentives to do the dungeon on normal or vet difficulty. I don't see the point in there being stories to dungeons if you never get to see them - I've gotten to go through the story on some normal non-DLC dungeons but the DLC dungeons I've done I have no idea what the story was because there was no time with a group to go through it, and I wouldn't want to slow down the rest of the group by asking to take it easy. Even if I did have a group of people who wanted to do the story, I would be too anxious about taking too long to read/listen, examining the dungeon, etc. Being able to do that alone, and then go in and do the dungeon gameplay with a group, would be ideal for me, since I think already most people just do dungeons for the gameplay and don't get the stories much

Tornaad

Yes that will be awesome!

Yes!!!!! Please!

Bouldercleave

Yes that will be awesome!

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Most dungeons can be completed on normal solo (apart from the ones what require a mechanic where you need 2 people),I would only see it being story mode a good option for dlc dungeons.

Not by everybody. Granted, decent players can do most of them but I would venture to say that it's not the majority of players that can.

I would like them to remove the mechanics that prevent me from soloing the last few dungeons though. I love the challenge but to get to a point where it's not the difficulty but the mechanics stopping you is frustrating.

Tannus15

Yes that will be awesome!

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

ZeroDPS wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

We already have story mode, it's called normal. This is an MMO, it is meant to be played with others. If you really wanted to make it so a blind gibbon could run the dungeon solo to listen to the dialogue, I guess I don't care as long as there are absolutely zero loot drops, including skill points and undaunted rank.

My pushback is that if you make story mode, you remove the carrot that might incentivize some people to break out of their shell and play with others, in an MMO!!!

For you and all other players who says normal mode can be soloed. Yes I can solo even some veterans after 1000+ CP, but you cant solo with level 23 WITHOUT any CP there. So for balance we can remove some sets drop, and CLOSE story mode after doing it and completing the quest!

Guys I see many ppl in this forum that dont want new and comfortable things to be implemented, in this case we will have store mode dungeons without set drops only for questing, after doing story mode it will disappear and instead of them we can see normal/veteran in the list. So why not?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I dont subscribe to the premise that the entire game should be accessible by a level 23 player. Again, I dont care if they do it, but story mode needs to be for the story and NOTHING else. If people don't have to group to get group based loot, there is no incentive to break out of the solo bubble. Not healthy for an MMO. And honestly, if you dont do group content and avoid everything but overland combat, your gear simply doesnt matter anyway.

exactly what dungeon sets are you expecting people to "break out of their solo bubble" for?
most dungeon sets are trash. honestly diamonds victory and acuity is better than just about anything that drops in a dungeon.

the only "incentive" sets are the monster helms which only drop on vet already.

https://eso-sets.com/set/hollowfang-thirst

Sets like these. I actually agree that gear should still only drop on group level difficulty and I'm a pretty strong advocate for solo story mode! Gear farming, pledges, and the daily random bonus are the main reasons people go into group dungeons with others. So those should be protected, all the other stuff about people not getting undaunted exp are just people being overly punitive for absolutely no reason. It's just punishing people for using the mode and serves no other purpose as it doesn't protect the group content at all. If someone wants undaunted progress solo that bad, they can already level it without ever setting foot in a group. So punishing people for solo mode in that way makes absolutely no sense, it's just vindictive.

But allowing people to get keys, do the daily random, or get gear does undermine 99% of the reason people do groups for dungeons.

... that's a healer set. Why would a solo player want a healer set? anyone who already does group content would still prefer to farm gear on normal because they know people who do group stuff and you get 4 times the drops. it's super easy and quick. if i'm after ... umm ... a worm ice staff i guess for my tank then i still want to take 3 friends with me for extra drops if possible. call it a humble brag if you want, but i can easily solo vet VoM, nevermind normal, but it's just better to take whoever is around.

you're not going to have a drop off of players who want to farm gear, you're just going to have more people doing the content who also might feel confident enough to try normal group since they know the dungeon now.

Hapexamendios

For me a story mode should be just that - story only

No quest
No skill point
No random completion
No dungeon completion
No undaunted credit
No battles
No drops

You get the story only and that's it. You want anything else, do it on normal or vet.

spartaxoxo

Yes that will be awesome!

Tannus15 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

ZeroDPS wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

We already have story mode, it's called normal. This is an MMO, it is meant to be played with others. If you really wanted to make it so a blind gibbon could run the dungeon solo to listen to the dialogue, I guess I don't care as long as there are absolutely zero loot drops, including skill points and undaunted rank.

My pushback is that if you make story mode, you remove the carrot that might incentivize some people to break out of their shell and play with others, in an MMO!!!

For you and all other players who says normal mode can be soloed. Yes I can solo even some veterans after 1000+ CP, but you cant solo with level 23 WITHOUT any CP there. So for balance we can remove some sets drop, and CLOSE story mode after doing it and completing the quest!

Guys I see many ppl in this forum that dont want new and comfortable things to be implemented, in this case we will have store mode dungeons without set drops only for questing, after doing story mode it will disappear and instead of them we can see normal/veteran in the list. So why not?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I dont subscribe to the premise that the entire game should be accessible by a level 23 player. Again, I dont care if they do it, but story mode needs to be for the story and NOTHING else. If people don't have to group to get group based loot, there is no incentive to break out of the solo bubble. Not healthy for an MMO. And honestly, if you dont do group content and avoid everything but overland combat, your gear simply doesnt matter anyway.

exactly what dungeon sets are you expecting people to "break out of their solo bubble" for?
most dungeon sets are trash. honestly diamonds victory and acuity is better than just about anything that drops in a dungeon.

the only "incentive" sets are the monster helms which only drop on vet already.

https://eso-sets.com/set/hollowfang-thirst

Sets like these. I actually agree that gear should still only drop on group level difficulty and I'm a pretty strong advocate for solo story mode! Gear farming, pledges, and the daily random bonus are the main reasons people go into group dungeons with others. So those should be protected, all the other stuff about people not getting undaunted exp are just people being overly punitive for absolutely no reason. It's just punishing people for using the mode and serves no other purpose as it doesn't protect the group content at all. If someone wants undaunted progress solo that bad, they can already level it without ever setting foot in a group. So punishing people for solo mode in that way makes absolutely no sense, it's just vindictive.

But allowing people to get keys, do the daily random, or get gear does undermine 99% of the reason people do groups for dungeons.

... that's a healer set. Why would a solo player want a healer set? anyone who already does group content would still prefer to farm gear on normal because they know people who do group stuff and you get 4 times the drops. it's super easy and quick. if i'm after ... umm ... a worm ice staff i guess for my tank then i still want to take 3 friends with me for extra drops if possible. call it a humble brag if you want, but i can easily solo vet VoM, nevermind normal, but it's just better to take whoever is around.

you're not going to have a drop off of players who want to farm gear, you're just going to have more people doing the content who also might feel confident enough to try normal group since they know the dungeon now.

Who says that solo players would be the only one using story mode? If story mode was an easier place to get group gear, I'd farm solo mode because it would be quicker than making my own group. I already do that with normal mode after I get my jewelry in any dungeon I farm, since it's often faster than trying to get something together for Vet.

Story would just be for anyone who wants to hear the story. I'd use it to hear the story just to not have to slow down some group for 30 minutes while I listen to the voice acted dialogue, and still do group content.

DreamyLu

Yes that will be awesome!

A big yes from my side!

As is now, I don't touch dungeons. If there would be a story mode allowing solo, I would start with this game content.

For me personally, main two advantages would be:
- Being at own snail speed without bothering anyone.
- Not bothering about a specific class and set up (bearing consequences of cause).

spartaxoxo

Yes that will be awesome!

Hapexamendios wrote: »

For me a story mode should be just that - story only

No quest
No skill point
No random completion
No dungeon completion
No undaunted credit
No battles
No drops

You get the story only and that's it. You want anything else, do it on normal or vet.

No battles? This so way over the top. I have never seen a story mode that demanded people play an entire different genre of game.

Olauron

Yes that will be awesome!

Tannus15 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

ZeroDPS wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

We already have story mode, it's called normal. This is an MMO, it is meant to be played with others. If you really wanted to make it so a blind gibbon could run the dungeon solo to listen to the dialogue, I guess I don't care as long as there are absolutely zero loot drops, including skill points and undaunted rank.

My pushback is that if you make story mode, you remove the carrot that might incentivize some people to break out of their shell and play with others, in an MMO!!!

For you and all other players who says normal mode can be soloed. Yes I can solo even some veterans after 1000+ CP, but you cant solo with level 23 WITHOUT any CP there. So for balance we can remove some sets drop, and CLOSE story mode after doing it and completing the quest!

Guys I see many ppl in this forum that dont want new and comfortable things to be implemented, in this case we will have store mode dungeons without set drops only for questing, after doing story mode it will disappear and instead of them we can see normal/veteran in the list. So why not?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I dont subscribe to the premise that the entire game should be accessible by a level 23 player. Again, I dont care if they do it, but story mode needs to be for the story and NOTHING else. If people don't have to group to get group based loot, there is no incentive to break out of the solo bubble. Not healthy for an MMO. And honestly, if you dont do group content and avoid everything but overland combat, your gear simply doesnt matter anyway.

exactly what dungeon sets are you expecting people to "break out of their solo bubble" for?
most dungeon sets are trash. honestly diamonds victory and acuity is better than just about anything that drops in a dungeon.

the only "incentive" sets are the monster helms which only drop on vet already.

https://eso-sets.com/set/hollowfang-thirst

Sets like these. I actually agree that gear should still only drop on group level difficulty and I'm a pretty strong advocate for solo story mode! Gear farming, pledges, and the daily random bonus are the main reasons people go into group dungeons with others. So those should be protected, all the other stuff about people not getting undaunted exp are just people being overly punitive for absolutely no reason. It's just punishing people for using the mode and serves no other purpose as it doesn't protect the group content at all. If someone wants undaunted progress solo that bad, they can already level it without ever setting foot in a group. So punishing people for solo mode in that way makes absolutely no sense, it's just vindictive.

But allowing people to get keys, do the daily random, or get gear does undermine 99% of the reason people do groups for dungeons.

... that's a healer set. Why would a solo player want a healer set?

For reasons. My overland solo khajiit healer wears Trinimac's Valor + Vestment of Olorime + Infernal Guardian. My overland solo altmer dd wears Galerion's Revenge + Mantle of Siroria + Earthgore. These sets enhance my own characters as well. These sets look great when doing quests, delves, dolmens or geysers. Most importantly, these sets mirror the characters.

DarcyMardin

Yes that will be awesome!

If only. I’ve been asking for this for years. And the speed running situation is worse than ever since the random dungeon crystal pack reward was added.

Biro123

Yes that will be awesome!

Wow. This community..

People ask for an OPTIONAL. easier mode for dungeons and everyone is 'Only if u get no lootl'

People ask for OPTIONAL hard mod overland and everyone is 'Only if you don't get more loot!'

What is it guys? Should loot be based on challenge or not? Why are people so terrified of there being more difficulty options in this game?
Are you guys seriously saying that spending 30 mins in a story-mode dungeon should give 0 loot? Do you get 0 loot doing 30mins overland?


And what about group play? This is exactly the same argument on PVP events.. Why are ZOS forcing me to do X that I don't like?
Ah, but you might like it if you tried it.
Dude, I've been playing this game for over 5 years and have tried all content, stop trying to push me into stuff I have done and KNOW I don't like.

If love a solo mode for dungeons. I hate group content. I hate that I miss out on so much of the stories, and I hate more than anything that all these DLCs that I keep paying for with my sub include content that I'll never play.

And quite frankly so many of these comments just come a cross as 'If you don't do dungeons, you don't matter'. Its like we're 2nd class citizens, some kind of underclass who has to be stamped on and kept in their place, for fear of their enjoyment somehow, ever so slightly impinging on the all so important ruling class.

divnyi

Yes that will be awesome!

I'd go for some "memory board" with all the dungeons and trials instead of separate difficulty.
Something like teleporting to a place where you can listen to all the dialogues in correct places, but with no monsters.

It will eliminate two problems:
1. Properly setting up the difficulty
2. Property setting up the rewards

And yes, absolutely yes, I'd love such an option. You can solo dungeons on normal, but you can't listen to dialogues on the chars that already did the dungeon. And best way to level up is to RND, so you skip dungeon dialogues again and again.

Viyvos

Yes that will be awesome!

That would be great.

ZeroDPS

Yes that will be awesome!

@ZOS_GinaBruno Hey Gina pls take a look to this thread it seems many people like the idea, could you give us info if this may be implemented, because we really want to do those quests and understand what is happening in every dungeon. Thanks Gina!

cyberjanet

Yes that will be awesome!

Back in the day, there were stories to the dungeons. Remember Spindleclutch, where the party you were with turned on you the same way that their party turned on them, leading to the need to actually do the dungeon with them? That story has been cut out completely, as though it never existed.

I don't like to do dungeons for the sake of doing a dungeon. I like to know why I'm there. I still haven't figured out why I went to Castle Thorn to steal all the stuff and kill the owner. Can anyone tell me? How did I end up in the Stone Garden, or Imperial City Prison, or City of Ash even. At least there were some notes from Tharaya to get me to Volenfell.

Though I play in a guild that encourages going slow to listen to the quest and get as much of the story as ZoS is willing to share, I think most of the time now there isn't even a story, and the bits there you can miss if you died (you can't hear conversation when you're dead) or someone is talking some mechanic over the storyline and you miss it. I certainly can't solo those dungeons, and I'm certainly never going to run them with Hostile PUGs (and all PUGs are hostile imo) so you can shout this is an MMO all you like, not gonna do it. It's also an mmoRPG - and the RPG is missing almost entirely now.

That said, I did post a while ago that I would like to see expanded options for story mode: killing every foe in the dungeon, finding every chat and every heavy sack, and speaking to every NPC to get every bit of the story before the dungeon is considered finished.

Tornaad

Yes that will be awesome!

Hapexamendios wrote: »

For me a story mode should be just that - story only

No quest
No skill point
No random completion
No dungeon completion
No undaunted credit
No battles
No drops

You get the story only and that's it. You want anything else, do it on normal or vet.

I'm fine with that.

Vaoh

Yes that will be awesome!

Imo:

• Story Mode:
- Public Dungeon level difficulty
- No monster helms drops
- Does not complete undaunted pledges
- New achievement for completing the dungeon on Story Mode, which auto-completes for beating the dungeon on any other difficulty.

• Normal:
- No changes.

• Veteran:
- No changes.

• Master:
- Healing Done/Shields reduced by 60%
- Damage Done reduced by 30%
- All bosses must be killed, or else last boss is enraged.
- Always two keys for pledges
- Experience gain is doubled
- Boss drops are doubled
- Gold Jewelry for killing last boss on Hard Mode
- New achievement for completing the dungeon on Master, and maybe new titles