Time to look at Mechanical Aquity (pvp)

StarOfElyon

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Delete cloak from the game - problem solved.
Take sorc streak and put it in the same trash bin.

They're two of the most cheesy and broken skills in the game.

Nobody should have the ability to start fights (by guaranteed first hits!) and then leave the fight when the other guy is kicking your ass. Then go back out recover ressources and health and go back in for first hit again once again.

How NBs and Sorcs even lose 1v1s is beyond me. When you choose when and how you wanna fight, something has to go seriously wrong to lose the match.

[snip] That is their only playstyle when they lack proper mitigation.

Nb and sorc aren't even top tier classes in PvP. Take a look at warden and necro's ultitity first before trying to nerf cloak and streak.

And please don't detour this to a nerf sorc thread.

[edited for baiting]

Hol up...

That's a lie. Straight up.

DrSlaughtr

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Delete cloak from the game - problem solved.
Take sorc streak and put it in the same trash bin.

They're two of the most cheesy and broken skills in the game.

Nobody should have the ability to start fights (by guaranteed first hits!) and then leave the fight when the other guy is kicking your ass. Then go back out recover ressources and health and go back in for first hit again once again.

How NBs and Sorcs even lose 1v1s is beyond me. When you choose when and how you wanna fight, something has to go seriously wrong to lose the match.

[snip] That is their only playstyle when they lack proper mitigation.

Nb and sorc aren't even top tier classes in PvP. Take a look at warden and necro's ultitity first before trying to nerf cloak and streak.

And please don't detour this to a nerf sorc thread.

[edited for baiting]

Hol up...

That's a lie. Straight up.

Well, not entirely. If we're generalizing Wardens and necros are top tier right now. NBs are not far behind thanks to Aquity. Sorcs are a close fourth.

Having said that, I'm used to shadowy/streak complaints. Anytime someone suggests to nerf anything, at some point someone will bring to those skills even though they are easily counted.

Aldoss

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Exactly how is my statement disingenuous?

You can sacrifice your spell and weapon damage all day long because you know when you crit you get +75% damage (or more). There's no drawback. There's no sacrifice.

You quoted my explanation of how it's disingenuous. There is indeed a drawback and a sacrifice - nearly everything in this game is - and when it isn't, then it does deserve to be called out and altered. This is not that case.

This thread makes it sound like people with MA are running around blessed by the holy trinity of damage, tankiness, and sustain. They are not.

The choices when it comes to crit builds are: build for crit chance and lose the access to stack massive crit dmg or build for crit damage and use a set that allows you to make use of it ~30% of your combat time.

Buff crit resist by buffing the trait itself and provide more opportunities to slot it into regular builds via 2 piece or 3 piece bonuses or hell here's an idea: jewelry impen traits?! These are suitable and appropriate changes even if MA didn't exist.

Tannus15

I've been messing around with parses for PvE with the changes to medium and light armour on PTS and acuity is potentially very strong because it allows you to mess with the standard 5/2 you're restricted to if you're running drop sets like sorrow or medusa for your crit chance.

With acuity you can run 3 or 4 medium with siroria upping your spell damage and crit damage without sacrificing too much crit chance and still reaching pen cap.

All of the OP's suggestions would destroy the set in PvE. I'm pretty sure the answer to this set being meta is to buff crit resist options, not to nerf an otherwise useful set into oblivion.

divnyi

Delay the trigger by 3 secs, reduce CD by 3 secs. Will not hit PvE but will make it hard life for the bombers and gankers.

Sandman929

I don't really have a problem with MA either. It's very strong when people who can take advantage of the uptime, and are good NBs, use it. I still get ganked plenty by people who can't kill me just because they're wearing this set. I don't think it's free kills, which is more than I can say for proc-damage sets, this is proc-opportunity, and players have to be able to use that opportunity well to make this set strong.
Even on a tankier setup, I can get nuked by someone who knows what they're doing, but that's as it should be.

BattleAxe

The thing here is most people using MA often build for maximum damage a glass cannon. In other words they are gonna deal insane dmg however they can not take damage that well either so there is that trade off. Really tho the point of issue is players want to be built for dealing damage while also being able to take damage aka everyone pretty much wants to be able to 1vX however not every player has the ability to do so.

DrSlaughtr

Aldoss wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Exactly how is my statement disingenuous?

You can sacrifice your spell and weapon damage all day long because you know when you crit you get +75% damage (or more). There's no drawback. There's no sacrifice.

You quoted my explanation of how it's disingenuous. There is indeed a drawback and a sacrifice - nearly everything in this game is - and when it isn't, then it does deserve to be called out and altered. This is not that case.

This thread makes it sound like people with MA are running around blessed by the holy trinity of damage, tankiness, and sustain. They are not.

The choices when it comes to crit builds are: build for crit chance and lose the access to stack massive crit dmg or build for crit damage and use a set that allows you to make use of it ~30% of your combat time.

Buff crit resist by buffing the trait itself and provide more opportunities to slot it into regular builds via 2 piece or 3 piece bonuses or hell here's an idea: jewelry impen traits?! These are suitable and appropriate changes even if MA didn't exist.

There's no drawback to running MA. Here's the issue.

If I want to build a crit build without MA, I have to sacrifice a lot.

For stam, you have to run Leviathan which is a pain in the ass to farm. New Moon. Kilt. One slime. Thief mundus.

My crit % is about 70% even with all that because crit %. was nerfed.

My weapon damage is like 5k buffed. I hit like a wet noodle if I don't crit.

My pen is garbage because no lover, no mace and no sharp. And no balorg.

I get my crit damage up to around 70% if kilt and focus are maxed.

I now live and die by crit. If I don't crit I do terrible damage. That's the choice I made.



Now let's go with New Moon, MA, Balorg.

My crit % is like 20% with CP.

Axe with sharp. No need for precise.

Crit damage mundus.

All that damage I get from CP for single target, direct damage, and crit damage.

My buffed weapon damage is over 6k before balorg. My pen is 8k before balorg. I'm killing people long before MA kicks in. Then it procs and I drop 5 skills and 4 to 5 LAs. No one is alive. The only sacrifice I made for this build was running an axe over a sword/mace and running shadow instead of warrior or lover. Even without MA I'm still smacking people. MA gives me an unfair advantage because I can build a full damage character and ignore crit % all together.

ZOS balanced lower crit % and higher crit damage on purpose. MA let's you forgo the penalty of the former because it ceases to matter.

Fhritz

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Exactly how is my statement disingenuous?

You can sacrifice your spell and weapon damage all day long because you know when you crit you get +75% damage (or more). There's no drawback. There's no sacrifice.

You quoted my explanation of how it's disingenuous. There is indeed a drawback and a sacrifice - nearly everything in this game is - and when it isn't, then it does deserve to be called out and altered. This is not that case.

This thread makes it sound like people with MA are running around blessed by the holy trinity of damage, tankiness, and sustain. They are not.

The choices when it comes to crit builds are: build for crit chance and lose the access to stack massive crit dmg or build for crit damage and use a set that allows you to make use of it ~30% of your combat time.

Buff crit resist by buffing the trait itself and provide more opportunities to slot it into regular builds via 2 piece or 3 piece bonuses or hell here's an idea: jewelry impen traits?! These are suitable and appropriate changes even if MA didn't exist.

There's no drawback to running MA. Here's the issue.

If I want to build a crit build without MA, I have to sacrifice a lot.

For stam, you have to run Leviathan which is a pain in the ass to farm. New Moon. Kilt. One slime. Thief mundus.

My crit % is about 70% even with all that because crit %. was nerfed.

My weapon damage is like 5k buffed. I hit like a wet noodle if I don't crit.

My pen is garbage because no lover, no mace and no sharp. And no balorg.

I get my crit damage up to around 70% if kilt and focus are maxed.

I now live and die by crit. If I don't crit I do terrible damage. That's the choice I made.



Now let's go with New Moon, MA, Balorg.

My crit % is like 20% with CP.

Axe with sharp. No need for precise.

Crit damage mundus.

All that damage I get from CP for single target, direct damage, and crit damage.

My buffed weapon damage is over 6k before balorg. My pen is 8k before balorg. I'm killing people long before MA kicks in. Then it procs and I drop 5 skills and 4 to 5 LAs. No one is alive. The only sacrifice I made for this build was running an axe over a sword/mace and running shadow instead of warrior or lover. Even without MA I'm still smacking people. MA gives me an unfair advantage because I can build a full damage character and ignore crit % all together.

ZOS balanced lower crit % and higher crit damage on purpose. MA let's you forgo the penalty of the former because it ceases to matter.

??? why do you compare a PvE build VS a PvP build. No one use leviathan or the kilt in pvp even for a crit build, kilt is trash for pvp if you don't gank, and leviathan doesn't have any good offensive stat for stam in pvp situation. You want to use balorgh + Ancient Dragonguard + NMA/Stuhn or anything crit based FOR PVP because your comparison is very dumb.

MA is balanced, it's just a L2P issue if you're annoyed by this set.

DrSlaughtr

Fhritz wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Exactly how is my statement disingenuous?

You can sacrifice your spell and weapon damage all day long because you know when you crit you get +75% damage (or more). There's no drawback. There's no sacrifice.

You quoted my explanation of how it's disingenuous. There is indeed a drawback and a sacrifice - nearly everything in this game is - and when it isn't, then it does deserve to be called out and altered. This is not that case.

This thread makes it sound like people with MA are running around blessed by the holy trinity of damage, tankiness, and sustain. They are not.

The choices when it comes to crit builds are: build for crit chance and lose the access to stack massive crit dmg or build for crit damage and use a set that allows you to make use of it ~30% of your combat time.

Buff crit resist by buffing the trait itself and provide more opportunities to slot it into regular builds via 2 piece or 3 piece bonuses or hell here's an idea: jewelry impen traits?! These are suitable and appropriate changes even if MA didn't exist.

There's no drawback to running MA. Here's the issue.

If I want to build a crit build without MA, I have to sacrifice a lot.

For stam, you have to run Leviathan which is a pain in the ass to farm. New Moon. Kilt. One slime. Thief mundus.

My crit % is about 70% even with all that because crit %. was nerfed.

My weapon damage is like 5k buffed. I hit like a wet noodle if I don't crit.

My pen is garbage because no lover, no mace and no sharp. And no balorg.

I get my crit damage up to around 70% if kilt and focus are maxed.

I now live and die by crit. If I don't crit I do terrible damage. That's the choice I made.



Now let's go with New Moon, MA, Balorg.

My crit % is like 20% with CP.

Axe with sharp. No need for precise.

Crit damage mundus.

All that damage I get from CP for single target, direct damage, and crit damage.

My buffed weapon damage is over 6k before balorg. My pen is 8k before balorg. I'm killing people long before MA kicks in. Then it procs and I drop 5 skills and 4 to 5 LAs. No one is alive. The only sacrifice I made for this build was running an axe over a sword/mace and running shadow instead of warrior or lover. Even without MA I'm still smacking people. MA gives me an unfair advantage because I can build a full damage character and ignore crit % all together.

ZOS balanced lower crit % and higher crit damage on purpose. MA let's you forgo the penalty of the former because it ceases to matter.

??? why do you compare a PvE build VS a PvP build. No one use leviathan or the kilt in pvp even for a crit build, kilt is trash for pvp if you don't gank, and leviathan doesn't have any good offensive stat for stam in pvp situation. You want to use balorgh + Ancient Dragonguard + NMA/Stuhn or anything crit based FOR PVP because your comparison is very dumb.

MA is balanced, it's just a L2P issue if you're annoyed by this set.

First off, take a breath and realize this is a forum discussion not a roast. There's no reason to personally attack anyone. Especially because you're wrong.

Secondly that is a NB pvp crit build. Kilt is easy to keep up. Lot easier than Focus.

Thirdly my point was to show all the sacrifices you have to make to get high crit % AND high crit damage.

MA isn't balanced, as I explained, because it circumvents the balance ZOS has implemented with lower crit % for higher crit damage.

neferpitou73

divnyi wrote: »

Delay the trigger by 3 secs, reduce CD by 3 secs. Will not hit PvE but will make it hard life for the bombers and gankers.

I don't want it to be a hard life for bombers and gankers. Those are perfectly viable playstyles. If I get to annoy people with my ball groups they can annoy me with their bombers.

I think the set is fine as it is. It requires skill to time and is relatively high risk, high reward. If any change is made to it it should be to revert it to it's previous state.

The only issue I have with MA right now is that crit damage is ridiculously OP right now. But that isn't the fault of the set, ball groups were running crit damage during no-proc. The "issue" with MA is the extra 1000 spell and weapon dmg ZOS gave and how it stacks with all the crit multipliers. You fix that and the problem with MA goes away.

vgabor

neferpitou73 wrote: »

The only issue I have with MA right now is that crit damage is ridiculously OP right now. But that isn't the fault of the set

Yep, the set itself is fine, the problem stems from the environment changing:
1) They nerfed crit resist into the ground. Before malacath people were running with the max 3300 crit resist, these days most people goes with about 1300-1800, which not even half of it the most times.
2) They added a crapton crit damage, so when now people crit they hit really hard.

Back in the days before malacath people wasn't using crit builds because even if you did crit the bonus damage wasn't that much to justify it, but now with the above changes the same builds that were garbage then are op now. But that not because the crit sets itself but because the crit damage buff and crit resist nerf.

If you want to fix it, you need to fix the cause not the symptoms, the crit resist from impen should go back to what it was before nerfs and the crit resist cp should get at least 50% buff to be worth slotting it, but I'd say it even could be the same like the character base crit resist. And for crit damage there I think it would be worth considering adding a crit damage debuff into battle spirit as the looks of it ZOS keep adding crit damge sources into the game and thus a simple one time fix on crit damage not going to have any long lasting effects few patch from now.

DrSlaughtr

vgabor wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

The only issue I have with MA right now is that crit damage is ridiculously OP right now. But that isn't the fault of the set

Yep, the set itself is fine, the problem stems from the environment changing:
1) They nerfed crit resist into the ground. Before malacath people were running with the max 3300 crit resist, these days most people goes with about 1300-1800, which not even half of it the most times.
2) They added a crapton crit damage, so when now people crit they hit really hard.

Back in the days before malacath people wasn't using crit builds because even if you did crit the bonus damage wasn't that much to justify it, but now with the above changes the same builds that were garbage then are op now. But that not because the crit sets itself but because the crit damage buff and crit resist nerf.

If you want to fix it, you need to fix the cause not the symptoms, the crit resist from impen should go back to what it was before nerfs and the crit resist cp should get at least 50% buff to be worth slotting it, but I'd say it even could be the same like the character base crit resist. And for crit damage there I think it would be worth considering adding a crit damage debuff into battle spirit as the looks of it ZOS keep adding crit damge sources into the game and thus a simple one time fix on crit damage not going to have any long lasting effects few patch from now.

You're treating the symptoms not the cause.

They nerfed crit chance into the ground which is why they lowered crit resistance. You crit less often so crit damage was increased.

I'm not saying it was a smart move but that's what we got. So much so they are doubling down by killing crit % on medium but INCREASING the damage.

MA is the wrench in this balance. Anyone chasing meta will run all medium with MA and maximize crit damage through the roof. Sure you could drastically increases impen but you're now punishing players who don't want to cheese the system with one problem set.

MA would still be effective for bombers if it only lasted 2 seconds. I'm not saying to do that but simply pointing out the fact it isn't necessary for any play style. Skilled bombers existed during no proc. Skilled bombers existed before the proc meta when MA was buffed last year.

If the balance of the game right now and for at least the next 3 months it's low crit % with high crit damage, you shouldn't have one set running around that ruins the balance.

ebix_

So if they are increasing TTK because of this set and nightblade bombers then I'm pretty sure they will nerf nightblade before nerfing MA. I'm glad I wont be here to see another stupid patch note but I leave this here as a prophesy and after it happened you can join the rest of us in New world .

Thrain

TheEndBringer wrote: »

MA is the wrench in this balance.

not really since your not forced to tank that damage
as i mentioned in another thread
the problem is not "op sets"
the problem is people dont react properly to it
if you stand in there like a dps dummy everything would look op then
but if you see someone getting blue and then you react with some dodgeroles, holding block, keep your heals up
theres no way hes gonna kill you then
remember its only 5 seconds - and therefore even less reliable than other 5 piece sets

and the gankers and bombers who are using it
its as it should be in my opinion
you can nuke someone out of stealth - but therefore you are extremely squishy and if they react quick and properly you will drop dead
but thats the game
its a high risk - high reward playstile

this set is fine as it is currently
stop calling for nerfs that will butcher even more sets

Tannus15

the set is fine. sure you get 100% crit, but it's with a 5 second window with a long down time. if you lean into it for your build with things like the shadow mundus then when it's on cool down you're not killing anyone.

if someone realises what build you're running then they can go full defensive for 5 seconds and then turn on you once the buff runs out and you're in trouble town.

@TheEndBringer if you're building for high crit damage with a MA setup that means for 18 seconds you are not getting any of that benefit. You're hitting like a wet noodle until the proc and then it's hammer time, but if you mess up the timing or they pre-empt it and start shielding and / or dodge rolling guess then get another 18 seconds to try and kill you.
It's not an unfair advantage, it's a 5pc set and a mundus and a medium armour buff that most of the time isn't helping you at all. Add balorg on top of that and you effectively have no monster set until ult. Yes, you hit super hard in that window, but outside of it you've basically sacraficed 2/3 of your build.

Thrain

TheEndBringer wrote: »

You can get up to 10 attacks in those 5 seconds if you're good at LA weaving. On top of that, during cooldown you're still critting at your usual rate. There's no drawback if you stack crit damage.

sry but nope
maybe you can get 10 attacks in a house at the target dummy
but in an pvp situation theres no way youre gonna make 10 attacks
its more like 3-5 (already including la weaving)
and then either your target - or you will drop dead
and thats the drawback
if you go for a build that stacks crit damage - you will be extremely squishy
thats the "high risk - high reward" playstile

on top of that it can be easily countered
dont like getting bombed? - then just dont cuddle with your alliance mates at every flag and corner
dont like getting ganked? - keep your buffs up all the time, hold block on flags - maybe push for a little bit more hp in your build
and you will see the difference

is that set op? - not even close to it
is bombing/ganking op? - no since your not an unkillable, oneshotting warrior - you sacrifice your whole build and risk alot when youre doing that - and that should be rewarded as it does currently

but i understand that calling for nerfs is easier then just learn how to deal with it

DrSlaughtr

Thrain wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

You can get up to 10 attacks in those 5 seconds if you're good at LA weaving. On top of that, during cooldown you're still critting at your usual rate. There's no drawback if you stack crit damage.

sry but nope
maybe you can get 10 attacks in a house at the target dummy
but in an pvp situation theres no way youre gonna make 10 attacks
its more like 3-5 (already including la weaving)
and then either your target - or you will drop dead
and thats the drawback
if you go for a build that stacks crit damage - you will be extremely squishy
thats the "high risk - high reward" playstile

on top of that it can be easily countered
dont like getting bombed? - then just dont cuddle with your alliance mates at every flag and corner
dont like getting ganked? - keep your buffs up all the time, hold block on flags - maybe push for a little bit more hp in your build
and you will see the difference

is that set op? - not even close to it
is bombing/ganking op? - no since your not an unkillable, oneshotting warrior - you sacrifice your whole build and risk alot when youre doing that - and that should be rewarded as it does currently

but i understand that calling for nerfs is easier then just learn how to deal with it

You must have missed at the very beginning where I said I main nightblades.

The set IS a problem and has been for sometime. We had a brief reprieve from it during no proc, and then it came back with a vengeance. Now it's going to be used to make anyone wearing medium armor a killing machine, which will then lead to more nerfs that will cause wild shifts in PVP.

"easily countered."

Sure. Based on what? Because the target turns blue? So what. You CC them to proc it. You then unload. All you need are 2 to 3 skills with the current crit damage (which is increasing on medium armor).

"Oh but you have to wait 18 seconds." 16, actually, and those 16 go by fast.

For the 20th time. ZOS lowered crit chance and gave higher crit damage as the trade off. This set ruins that balance. This set is causing the dumb changes to Battle Spirit. This set IS the problem. You adjust this set properly it can still be useful while walking back the upcoming meta shift where anyone and everyone will be using it.

Fhritz

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Exactly how is my statement disingenuous?

You can sacrifice your spell and weapon damage all day long because you know when you crit you get +75% damage (or more). There's no drawback. There's no sacrifice.

You quoted my explanation of how it's disingenuous. There is indeed a drawback and a sacrifice - nearly everything in this game is - and when it isn't, then it does deserve to be called out and altered. This is not that case.

This thread makes it sound like people with MA are running around blessed by the holy trinity of damage, tankiness, and sustain. They are not.

The choices when it comes to crit builds are: build for crit chance and lose the access to stack massive crit dmg or build for crit damage and use a set that allows you to make use of it ~30% of your combat time.

Buff crit resist by buffing the trait itself and provide more opportunities to slot it into regular builds via 2 piece or 3 piece bonuses or hell here's an idea: jewelry impen traits?! These are suitable and appropriate changes even if MA didn't exist.

There's no drawback to running MA. Here's the issue.

If I want to build a crit build without MA, I have to sacrifice a lot.

For stam, you have to run Leviathan which is a pain in the ass to farm. New Moon. Kilt. One slime. Thief mundus.

My crit % is about 70% even with all that because crit %. was nerfed.

My weapon damage is like 5k buffed. I hit like a wet noodle if I don't crit.

My pen is garbage because no lover, no mace and no sharp. And no balorg.

I get my crit damage up to around 70% if kilt and focus are maxed.

I now live and die by crit. If I don't crit I do terrible damage. That's the choice I made.



Now let's go with New Moon, MA, Balorg.

My crit % is like 20% with CP.

Axe with sharp. No need for precise.

Crit damage mundus.

All that damage I get from CP for single target, direct damage, and crit damage.

My buffed weapon damage is over 6k before balorg. My pen is 8k before balorg. I'm killing people long before MA kicks in. Then it procs and I drop 5 skills and 4 to 5 LAs. No one is alive. The only sacrifice I made for this build was running an axe over a sword/mace and running shadow instead of warrior or lover. Even without MA I'm still smacking people. MA gives me an unfair advantage because I can build a full damage character and ignore crit % all together.

ZOS balanced lower crit % and higher crit damage on purpose. MA let's you forgo the penalty of the former because it ceases to matter.

??? why do you compare a PvE build VS a PvP build. No one use leviathan or the kilt in pvp even for a crit build, kilt is trash for pvp if you don't gank, and leviathan doesn't have any good offensive stat for stam in pvp situation. You want to use balorgh + Ancient Dragonguard + NMA/Stuhn or anything crit based FOR PVP because your comparison is very dumb.

MA is balanced, it's just a L2P issue if you're annoyed by this set.

First off, take a breath and realize this is a forum discussion not a roast. There's no reason to personally attack anyone. Especially because you're wrong.

Secondly that is a NB pvp crit build. Kilt is easy to keep up. Lot easier than Focus.

Thirdly my point was to show all the sacrifices you have to make to get high crit % AND high crit damage.

MA isn't balanced, as I explained, because it circumvents the balance ZOS has implemented with lower crit % for higher crit damage.

I main NB, and unless you want to gank kilt isn't really good since you'll lose stack faster than you'll gain stack (you need to don't take any damage for 10 sec if you want full proc, or at least 5 sec for not losing stack.) You can build full crit + damage without MA especially on a NB (NB khajiit for example have passively +20% crit damage, 10% from class and 10% from racial) and without much sacrifice, but for these sorts of build you want to use MA because it offers more burst. It doesn't mean it's op (especially when you compare it to PvE build), because it's like any set in the game : if you build around it, it'll be strong.

MA have drawback, because you only have a 5 sec windows every 16 sec (about 33% uptime), so 66% of the time you are less efficient than any PVP crit build (other than the one you are saying because it isn't optimized for PvP at all) and you can easily waste the proc

DrSlaughtr

Fhritz wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Exactly how is my statement disingenuous?

You can sacrifice your spell and weapon damage all day long because you know when you crit you get +75% damage (or more). There's no drawback. There's no sacrifice.

You quoted my explanation of how it's disingenuous. There is indeed a drawback and a sacrifice - nearly everything in this game is - and when it isn't, then it does deserve to be called out and altered. This is not that case.

This thread makes it sound like people with MA are running around blessed by the holy trinity of damage, tankiness, and sustain. They are not.

The choices when it comes to crit builds are: build for crit chance and lose the access to stack massive crit dmg or build for crit damage and use a set that allows you to make use of it ~30% of your combat time.

Buff crit resist by buffing the trait itself and provide more opportunities to slot it into regular builds via 2 piece or 3 piece bonuses or hell here's an idea: jewelry impen traits?! These are suitable and appropriate changes even if MA didn't exist.

There's no drawback to running MA. Here's the issue.

If I want to build a crit build without MA, I have to sacrifice a lot.

For stam, you have to run Leviathan which is a pain in the ass to farm. New Moon. Kilt. One slime. Thief mundus.

My crit % is about 70% even with all that because crit %. was nerfed.

My weapon damage is like 5k buffed. I hit like a wet noodle if I don't crit.

My pen is garbage because no lover, no mace and no sharp. And no balorg.

I get my crit damage up to around 70% if kilt and focus are maxed.

I now live and die by crit. If I don't crit I do terrible damage. That's the choice I made.



Now let's go with New Moon, MA, Balorg.

My crit % is like 20% with CP.

Axe with sharp. No need for precise.

Crit damage mundus.

All that damage I get from CP for single target, direct damage, and crit damage.

My buffed weapon damage is over 6k before balorg. My pen is 8k before balorg. I'm killing people long before MA kicks in. Then it procs and I drop 5 skills and 4 to 5 LAs. No one is alive. The only sacrifice I made for this build was running an axe over a sword/mace and running shadow instead of warrior or lover. Even without MA I'm still smacking people. MA gives me an unfair advantage because I can build a full damage character and ignore crit % all together.

ZOS balanced lower crit % and higher crit damage on purpose. MA let's you forgo the penalty of the former because it ceases to matter.

??? why do you compare a PvE build VS a PvP build. No one use leviathan or the kilt in pvp even for a crit build, kilt is trash for pvp if you don't gank, and leviathan doesn't have any good offensive stat for stam in pvp situation. You want to use balorgh + Ancient Dragonguard + NMA/Stuhn or anything crit based FOR PVP because your comparison is very dumb.

MA is balanced, it's just a L2P issue if you're annoyed by this set.

First off, take a breath and realize this is a forum discussion not a roast. There's no reason to personally attack anyone. Especially because you're wrong.

Secondly that is a NB pvp crit build. Kilt is easy to keep up. Lot easier than Focus.

Thirdly my point was to show all the sacrifices you have to make to get high crit % AND high crit damage.

MA isn't balanced, as I explained, because it circumvents the balance ZOS has implemented with lower crit % for higher crit damage.

I main NB, and unless you want to gank kilt isn't really good since you'll lose stack faster than you'll gain stack (you need to don't take any damage for 10 sec if you want full proc, or at least 5 sec for not losing stack.) You can build full crit + damage without MA especially on a NB (NB khajiit for example have passively +20% crit damage, 10% from class and 10% from racial) and without much sacrifice, but for these sorts of build you want to use MA because it offers more burst. It doesn't mean it's op (especially when you compare it to PvE build), because it's like any set in the game : if you build around it, it'll be strong.

MA have drawback, because you only have a 5 sec windows every 16 sec (about 33% uptime), so 66% of the time you are less efficient than any PVP crit build (other than the one you are saying because it isn't optimized for PvP at all) and you can easily waste the proc

Every class can lay and wait for 16 seconds then drop everything. This is the advantage of the set. Predictability. Crit isn't supposed to be a sure thing. The more you want to crit the more you have to give up. Unless you run MA.

neferpitou73

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Exactly how is my statement disingenuous?

You can sacrifice your spell and weapon damage all day long because you know when you crit you get +75% damage (or more). There's no drawback. There's no sacrifice.

You quoted my explanation of how it's disingenuous. There is indeed a drawback and a sacrifice - nearly everything in this game is - and when it isn't, then it does deserve to be called out and altered. This is not that case.

This thread makes it sound like people with MA are running around blessed by the holy trinity of damage, tankiness, and sustain. They are not.

The choices when it comes to crit builds are: build for crit chance and lose the access to stack massive crit dmg or build for crit damage and use a set that allows you to make use of it ~30% of your combat time.

Buff crit resist by buffing the trait itself and provide more opportunities to slot it into regular builds via 2 piece or 3 piece bonuses or hell here's an idea: jewelry impen traits?! These are suitable and appropriate changes even if MA didn't exist.

There's no drawback to running MA. Here's the issue.

If I want to build a crit build without MA, I have to sacrifice a lot.

For stam, you have to run Leviathan which is a pain in the ass to farm. New Moon. Kilt. One slime. Thief mundus.

My crit % is about 70% even with all that because crit %. was nerfed.

My weapon damage is like 5k buffed. I hit like a wet noodle if I don't crit.

My pen is garbage because no lover, no mace and no sharp. And no balorg.

I get my crit damage up to around 70% if kilt and focus are maxed.

I now live and die by crit. If I don't crit I do terrible damage. That's the choice I made.



Now let's go with New Moon, MA, Balorg.

My crit % is like 20% with CP.

Axe with sharp. No need for precise.

Crit damage mundus.

All that damage I get from CP for single target, direct damage, and crit damage.

My buffed weapon damage is over 6k before balorg. My pen is 8k before balorg. I'm killing people long before MA kicks in. Then it procs and I drop 5 skills and 4 to 5 LAs. No one is alive. The only sacrifice I made for this build was running an axe over a sword/mace and running shadow instead of warrior or lover. Even without MA I'm still smacking people. MA gives me an unfair advantage because I can build a full damage character and ignore crit % all together.

ZOS balanced lower crit % and higher crit damage on purpose. MA let's you forgo the penalty of the former because it ceases to matter.

??? why do you compare a PvE build VS a PvP build. No one use leviathan or the kilt in pvp even for a crit build, kilt is trash for pvp if you don't gank, and leviathan doesn't have any good offensive stat for stam in pvp situation. You want to use balorgh + Ancient Dragonguard + NMA/Stuhn or anything crit based FOR PVP because your comparison is very dumb.

MA is balanced, it's just a L2P issue if you're annoyed by this set.

First off, take a breath and realize this is a forum discussion not a roast. There's no reason to personally attack anyone. Especially because you're wrong.

Secondly that is a NB pvp crit build. Kilt is easy to keep up. Lot easier than Focus.

Thirdly my point was to show all the sacrifices you have to make to get high crit % AND high crit damage.

MA isn't balanced, as I explained, because it circumvents the balance ZOS has implemented with lower crit % for higher crit damage.

I main NB, and unless you want to gank kilt isn't really good since you'll lose stack faster than you'll gain stack (you need to don't take any damage for 10 sec if you want full proc, or at least 5 sec for not losing stack.) You can build full crit + damage without MA especially on a NB (NB khajiit for example have passively +20% crit damage, 10% from class and 10% from racial) and without much sacrifice, but for these sorts of build you want to use MA because it offers more burst. It doesn't mean it's op (especially when you compare it to PvE build), because it's like any set in the game : if you build around it, it'll be strong.

MA have drawback, because you only have a 5 sec windows every 16 sec (about 33% uptime), so 66% of the time you are less efficient than any PVP crit build (other than the one you are saying because it isn't optimized for PvP at all) and you can easily waste the proc

Every class can lay and wait for 16 seconds then drop everything. This is the advantage of the set. Predictability. Crit isn't supposed to be a sure thing. The more you want to crit the more you have to give up. Unless you run MA.

That predictability doesn't mean anything when you're locked down in a brawl. If they survive your initial burst you better hope you can either tank whatever damage is thrown at you. Or completely outrun them.

BattleAxe

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Exactly how is my statement disingenuous?

You can sacrifice your spell and weapon damage all day long because you know when you crit you get +75% damage (or more). There's no drawback. There's no sacrifice.

You quoted my explanation of how it's disingenuous. There is indeed a drawback and a sacrifice - nearly everything in this game is - and when it isn't, then it does deserve to be called out and altered. This is not that case.

This thread makes it sound like people with MA are running around blessed by the holy trinity of damage, tankiness, and sustain. They are not.

The choices when it comes to crit builds are: build for crit chance and lose the access to stack massive crit dmg or build for crit damage and use a set that allows you to make use of it ~30% of your combat time.

Buff crit resist by buffing the trait itself and provide more opportunities to slot it into regular builds via 2 piece or 3 piece bonuses or hell here's an idea: jewelry impen traits?! These are suitable and appropriate changes even if MA didn't exist.

There's no drawback to running MA. Here's the issue.

If I want to build a crit build without MA, I have to sacrifice a lot.

For stam, you have to run Leviathan which is a pain in the ass to farm. New Moon. Kilt. One slime. Thief mundus.

My crit % is about 70% even with all that because crit %. was nerfed.

My weapon damage is like 5k buffed. I hit like a wet noodle if I don't crit.

My pen is garbage because no lover, no mace and no sharp. And no balorg.

I get my crit damage up to around 70% if kilt and focus are maxed.

I now live and die by crit. If I don't crit I do terrible damage. That's the choice I made.



Now let's go with New Moon, MA, Balorg.

My crit % is like 20% with CP.

Axe with sharp. No need for precise.

Crit damage mundus.

All that damage I get from CP for single target, direct damage, and crit damage.

My buffed weapon damage is over 6k before balorg. My pen is 8k before balorg. I'm killing people long before MA kicks in. Then it procs and I drop 5 skills and 4 to 5 LAs. No one is alive. The only sacrifice I made for this build was running an axe over a sword/mace and running shadow instead of warrior or lover. Even without MA I'm still smacking people. MA gives me an unfair advantage because I can build a full damage character and ignore crit % all together.

ZOS balanced lower crit % and higher crit damage on purpose. MA let's you forgo the penalty of the former because it ceases to matter.

??? why do you compare a PvE build VS a PvP build. No one use leviathan or the kilt in pvp even for a crit build, kilt is trash for pvp if you don't gank, and leviathan doesn't have any good offensive stat for stam in pvp situation. You want to use balorgh + Ancient Dragonguard + NMA/Stuhn or anything crit based FOR PVP because your comparison is very dumb.

MA is balanced, it's just a L2P issue if you're annoyed by this set.

First off, take a breath and realize this is a forum discussion not a roast. There's no reason to personally attack anyone. Especially because you're wrong.

Secondly that is a NB pvp crit build. Kilt is easy to keep up. Lot easier than Focus.

Thirdly my point was to show all the sacrifices you have to make to get high crit % AND high crit damage.

MA isn't balanced, as I explained, because it circumvents the balance ZOS has implemented with lower crit % for higher crit damage.

Nightblade PvP crit build? When your original statement said, “ For stam, you have to run Leviathan which is a pain in the ass to farm. New Moon. Kilt. One slime. Thief mundus.” no where does this specify nightblade just saying. Now to be more specific what traits are being ran on the body? If divines sure this build might crit like a truck but it will not stand toe to toe with any decent player.

MA is a good set for what it does which is fine. To say it’s overperforming is a tad over exaggerating. If you build to maximize the potential of MA then you are setting your character up to get destroyed since maximizing the potential would mean becoming a glass canon. Basically if a player survives that burst rush the MA user either has to bug out or hope that player doesn’t have a burst ready of their own. Easiest counter a

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Exactly how is my statement disingenuous?

You can sacrifice your spell and weapon damage all day long because you know when you crit you get +75% damage (or more). There's no drawback. There's no sacrifice.

You quoted my explanation of how it's disingenuous. There is indeed a drawback and a sacrifice - nearly everything in this game is - and when it isn't, then it does deserve to be called out and altered. This is not that case.

This thread makes it sound like people with MA are running around blessed by the holy trinity of damage, tankiness, and sustain. They are not.

The choices when it comes to crit builds are: build for crit chance and lose the access to stack massive crit dmg or build for crit damage and use a set that allows you to make use of it ~30% of your combat time.

Buff crit resist by buffing the trait itself and provide more opportunities to slot it into regular builds via 2 piece or 3 piece bonuses or hell here's an idea: jewelry impen traits?! These are suitable and appropriate changes even if MA didn't exist.

There's no drawback to running MA. Here's the issue.

If I want to build a crit build without MA, I have to sacrifice a lot.

For stam, you have to run Leviathan which is a pain in the ass to farm. New Moon. Kilt. One slime. Thief mundus.

My crit % is about 70% even with all that because crit %. was nerfed.

My weapon damage is like 5k buffed. I hit like a wet noodle if I don't crit.

My pen is garbage because no lover, no mace and no sharp. And no balorg.

I get my crit damage up to around 70% if kilt and focus are maxed.

I now live and die by crit. If I don't crit I do terrible damage. That's the choice I made.



Now let's go with New Moon, MA, Balorg.

My crit % is like 20% with CP.

Axe with sharp. No need for precise.

Crit damage mundus.

All that damage I get from CP for single target, direct damage, and crit damage.

My buffed weapon damage is over 6k before balorg. My pen is 8k before balorg. I'm killing people long before MA kicks in. Then it procs and I drop 5 skills and 4 to 5 LAs. No one is alive. The only sacrifice I made for this build was running an axe over a sword/mace and running shadow instead of warrior or lover. Even without MA I'm still smacking people. MA gives me an unfair advantage because I can build a full damage character and ignore crit % all together.

ZOS balanced lower crit % and higher crit damage on purpose. MA let's you forgo the penalty of the former because it ceases to matter.

??? why do you compare a PvE build VS a PvP build. No one use leviathan or the kilt in pvp even for a crit build, kilt is trash for pvp if you don't gank, and leviathan doesn't have any good offensive stat for stam in pvp situation. You want to use balorgh + Ancient Dragonguard + NMA/Stuhn or anything crit based FOR PVP because your comparison is very dumb.

MA is balanced, it's just a L2P issue if you're annoyed by this set.

First off, take a breath and realize this is a forum discussion not a roast. There's no reason to personally attack anyone. Especially because you're wrong.

Secondly that is a NB pvp crit build. Kilt is easy to keep up. Lot easier than Focus.

Thirdly my point was to show all the sacrifices you have to make to get high crit % AND high crit damage.

MA isn't balanced, as I explained, because it circumvents the balance ZOS has implemented with lower crit % for higher crit damage.

I main NB, and unless you want to gank kilt isn't really good since you'll lose stack faster than you'll gain stack (you need to don't take any damage for 10 sec if you want full proc, or at least 5 sec for not losing stack.) You can build full crit + damage without MA especially on a NB (NB khajiit for example have passively +20% crit damage, 10% from class and 10% from racial) and without much sacrifice, but for these sorts of build you want to use MA because it offers more burst. It doesn't mean it's op (especially when you compare it to PvE build), because it's like any set in the game : if you build around it, it'll be strong.

MA have drawback, because you only have a 5 sec windows every 16 sec (about 33% uptime), so 66% of the time you are less efficient than any PVP crit build (other than the one you are saying because it isn't optimized for PvP at all) and you can easily waste the proc

Every class can lay and wait for 16 seconds then drop everything. This is the advantage of the set. Predictability. Crit isn't supposed to be a sure thing. The more you want to crit the more you have to give up. Unless you run MA.

Yes you give up a lot firstly that is survivability so yes sure you might hit like a ballistic missile but it’s made of glass and will be easy broken.

DrSlaughtr

BattleAxe wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Exactly how is my statement disingenuous?

You can sacrifice your spell and weapon damage all day long because you know when you crit you get +75% damage (or more). There's no drawback. There's no sacrifice.

You quoted my explanation of how it's disingenuous. There is indeed a drawback and a sacrifice - nearly everything in this game is - and when it isn't, then it does deserve to be called out and altered. This is not that case.

This thread makes it sound like people with MA are running around blessed by the holy trinity of damage, tankiness, and sustain. They are not.

The choices when it comes to crit builds are: build for crit chance and lose the access to stack massive crit dmg or build for crit damage and use a set that allows you to make use of it ~30% of your combat time.

Buff crit resist by buffing the trait itself and provide more opportunities to slot it into regular builds via 2 piece or 3 piece bonuses or hell here's an idea: jewelry impen traits?! These are suitable and appropriate changes even if MA didn't exist.

There's no drawback to running MA. Here's the issue.

If I want to build a crit build without MA, I have to sacrifice a lot.

For stam, you have to run Leviathan which is a pain in the ass to farm. New Moon. Kilt. One slime. Thief mundus.

My crit % is about 70% even with all that because crit %. was nerfed.

My weapon damage is like 5k buffed. I hit like a wet noodle if I don't crit.

My pen is garbage because no lover, no mace and no sharp. And no balorg.

I get my crit damage up to around 70% if kilt and focus are maxed.

I now live and die by crit. If I don't crit I do terrible damage. That's the choice I made.



Now let's go with New Moon, MA, Balorg.

My crit % is like 20% with CP.

Axe with sharp. No need for precise.

Crit damage mundus.

All that damage I get from CP for single target, direct damage, and crit damage.

My buffed weapon damage is over 6k before balorg. My pen is 8k before balorg. I'm killing people long before MA kicks in. Then it procs and I drop 5 skills and 4 to 5 LAs. No one is alive. The only sacrifice I made for this build was running an axe over a sword/mace and running shadow instead of warrior or lover. Even without MA I'm still smacking people. MA gives me an unfair advantage because I can build a full damage character and ignore crit % all together.

ZOS balanced lower crit % and higher crit damage on purpose. MA let's you forgo the penalty of the former because it ceases to matter.

??? why do you compare a PvE build VS a PvP build. No one use leviathan or the kilt in pvp even for a crit build, kilt is trash for pvp if you don't gank, and leviathan doesn't have any good offensive stat for stam in pvp situation. You want to use balorgh + Ancient Dragonguard + NMA/Stuhn or anything crit based FOR PVP because your comparison is very dumb.

MA is balanced, it's just a L2P issue if you're annoyed by this set.

First off, take a breath and realize this is a forum discussion not a roast. There's no reason to personally attack anyone. Especially because you're wrong.

Secondly that is a NB pvp crit build. Kilt is easy to keep up. Lot easier than Focus.

Thirdly my point was to show all the sacrifices you have to make to get high crit % AND high crit damage.

MA isn't balanced, as I explained, because it circumvents the balance ZOS has implemented with lower crit % for higher crit damage.

Nightblade PvP crit build? When your original statement said, “ For stam, you have to run Leviathan which is a pain in the ass to farm. New Moon. Kilt. One slime. Thief mundus.” no where does this specify nightblade just saying. Now to be more specific what traits are being ran on the body? If divines sure this build might crit like a truck but it will not stand toe to toe with any decent player.

MA is a good set for what it does which is fine. To say it’s overperforming is a tad over exaggerating. If you build to maximize the potential of MA then you are setting your character up to get destroyed since maximizing the potential would mean becoming a glass canon. Basically if a player survives that burst rush the MA user either has to bug out or hope that player doesn’t have a burst ready of their own. Easiest counter a

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Exactly how is my statement disingenuous?

You can sacrifice your spell and weapon damage all day long because you know when you crit you get +75% damage (or more). There's no drawback. There's no sacrifice.

You quoted my explanation of how it's disingenuous. There is indeed a drawback and a sacrifice - nearly everything in this game is - and when it isn't, then it does deserve to be called out and altered. This is not that case.

This thread makes it sound like people with MA are running around blessed by the holy trinity of damage, tankiness, and sustain. They are not.

The choices when it comes to crit builds are: build for crit chance and lose the access to stack massive crit dmg or build for crit damage and use a set that allows you to make use of it ~30% of your combat time.

Buff crit resist by buffing the trait itself and provide more opportunities to slot it into regular builds via 2 piece or 3 piece bonuses or hell here's an idea: jewelry impen traits?! These are suitable and appropriate changes even if MA didn't exist.

There's no drawback to running MA. Here's the issue.

If I want to build a crit build without MA, I have to sacrifice a lot.

For stam, you have to run Leviathan which is a pain in the ass to farm. New Moon. Kilt. One slime. Thief mundus.

My crit % is about 70% even with all that because crit %. was nerfed.

My weapon damage is like 5k buffed. I hit like a wet noodle if I don't crit.

My pen is garbage because no lover, no mace and no sharp. And no balorg.

I get my crit damage up to around 70% if kilt and focus are maxed.

I now live and die by crit. If I don't crit I do terrible damage. That's the choice I made.



Now let's go with New Moon, MA, Balorg.

My crit % is like 20% with CP.

Axe with sharp. No need for precise.

Crit damage mundus.

All that damage I get from CP for single target, direct damage, and crit damage.

My buffed weapon damage is over 6k before balorg. My pen is 8k before balorg. I'm killing people long before MA kicks in. Then it procs and I drop 5 skills and 4 to 5 LAs. No one is alive. The only sacrifice I made for this build was running an axe over a sword/mace and running shadow instead of warrior or lover. Even without MA I'm still smacking people. MA gives me an unfair advantage because I can build a full damage character and ignore crit % all together.

ZOS balanced lower crit % and higher crit damage on purpose. MA let's you forgo the penalty of the former because it ceases to matter.

??? why do you compare a PvE build VS a PvP build. No one use leviathan or the kilt in pvp even for a crit build, kilt is trash for pvp if you don't gank, and leviathan doesn't have any good offensive stat for stam in pvp situation. You want to use balorgh + Ancient Dragonguard + NMA/Stuhn or anything crit based FOR PVP because your comparison is very dumb.

MA is balanced, it's just a L2P issue if you're annoyed by this set.

First off, take a breath and realize this is a forum discussion not a roast. There's no reason to personally attack anyone. Especially because you're wrong.

Secondly that is a NB pvp crit build. Kilt is easy to keep up. Lot easier than Focus.

Thirdly my point was to show all the sacrifices you have to make to get high crit % AND high crit damage.

MA isn't balanced, as I explained, because it circumvents the balance ZOS has implemented with lower crit % for higher crit damage.

I main NB, and unless you want to gank kilt isn't really good since you'll lose stack faster than you'll gain stack (you need to don't take any damage for 10 sec if you want full proc, or at least 5 sec for not losing stack.) You can build full crit + damage without MA especially on a NB (NB khajiit for example have passively +20% crit damage, 10% from class and 10% from racial) and without much sacrifice, but for these sorts of build you want to use MA because it offers more burst. It doesn't mean it's op (especially when you compare it to PvE build), because it's like any set in the game : if you build around it, it'll be strong.

MA have drawback, because you only have a 5 sec windows every 16 sec (about 33% uptime), so 66% of the time you are less efficient than any PVP crit build (other than the one you are saying because it isn't optimized for PvP at all) and you can easily waste the proc

Every class can lay and wait for 16 seconds then drop everything. This is the advantage of the set. Predictability. Crit isn't supposed to be a sure thing. The more you want to crit the more you have to give up. Unless you run MA.

Yes you give up a lot firstly that is survivability so yes sure you might hit like a ballistic missile but it’s made of glass and will be easy broken.

Had you read the entire thread you would have seen we were talking about NBs at that point. Not my fault you assumed otherwise.

Yes, divines... what do you think it would run? Try getting that high of crit % under this patch without divines and thief. It's impossible.

You're not giving up survivability. There are khajiit stam wardens right now on live wearing MA and Pariah and they are smoking people. They are about to add a large crit damage buff to medium armor at the expense of crit %. That drawback won't matter because anyone and everyone will flock to MA. Read the patch notes to see what I'm talking about.

DrSlaughtr

Players: "MA isn't overpowered or overperforming."

Also players: "YOU WILL PRY MY MECHANICAL AQUITY OUT OF MY COLD DEAD HANDS."

mikey_reach

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Players: "MA isn't overpowered or overperforming."

Also players: "YOU WILL PRY MY MECHANICAL AQUITY OUT OF MY COLD DEAD HANDS."

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Players: "MA isn't overpowered or overperforming."

Also players: "YOU WILL PRY MY MECHANICAL AQUITY OUT OF MY COLD DEAD HANDS."

I actually admit i fall in this category, i did give my explanation why i dont think its the set that is overpowered so i wont rewrite it here.Really ive only use it on bomber and ssorc but i have always used it on them because they are niche builds. The set when from being on niche to being all around useful like my dragurkin/acuity flurry ssorc build and bomber to being used on alot more builds. Set wasnt buffed so its not the set that is overpowered its just much more efficient this meta and the way its looking since hybirds are looking like meta of course hybrid sets will rise in efficiency. But that is because of game changes that will also go for sets like balorgh,clever,stuhns,etc. Chances are the enemy that kills us using acuity is also using the other set ive mentioned in conjunction or maybe not full damage and use a hybrid defense like pariah. An example of what an actual overpowered set looks like is the first iteration of sloads, no matter the meta how much crit resist or defense you had this set was the set to run on all builds even tanks and healers to the point where if enough players applied it on you and you didnt have cleanse you would pretty much watch yourself die without any counter.

neferpitou73

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Players: "MA isn't overpowered or overperforming."

Also players: "YOU WILL PRY MY MECHANICAL AQUITY OUT OF MY COLD DEAD HANDS."

I don't use it on anything besides my trolly BG templar, so I don't have any skin in the game with it. I was just trying to explain why I don't think it's OP

WrathOfInnos

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Players: "MA isn't overpowered or overperforming."

Also players: "YOU WILL PRY MY MECHANICAL AQUITY OUT OF MY COLD DEAD HANDS."

Yes, both of those statements are valid when a set is fun and balanced.

Tannus15

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Players: "MA isn't overpowered or overperforming."

Also players: "YOU WILL PRY MY MECHANICAL AQUITY OUT OF MY COLD DEAD HANDS."

Can also be read as "don't arbitrarily nerf my build and a decent set into oblivion for no good reason"

I also like master destro staff. if someone was "nerf master destro!" i'd be all "what? no!". it has nothing to do with it over performing or not.

Thrain

TheEndBringer wrote: »

You must have missed at the very beginning where I said I main nightblades.

aaaand?
you can correct me if im wrong but i kinda got the feeling you main stamblade - that kind of snipe spamming, zerging stamblade

TheEndBringer wrote: »

"easily countered."
Sure. Based on what? Because the target turns blue? So what. You CC them to proc it. You then unload. All you need are 2 to 3 skills with the current crit damage (which is increasing on medium armor).

based on "counterplay"
because the target turns blue - means its your time to react
like i said its only 5 seconds
and if you cant dodgerole, heal, block for 5 seconds then you might need to adjust your build a bit

and if youre talking about getting nuked out of stealth
you can make it very hard for gankers to kill you just with a slightly different playstile
- if youre taking flags - hold block all the time
- if youre siegeing - keep your buffs up all the time
- maybe go for a bit more hp
- dont cuddle with your faction mates to prevent yourself from being bombed
- since you pointed out that you main nightblade it should be no problem for you to play more stealthed, so just get some detection pots and wait for the ganker to kill one of your mates

ganker/bomber are not only extremely squishy - they have literally no recource management at all
so if you sip that detection pot as soon as you see them even a wet fart can kill them
they dont have the recources to respond properly - which is the next drawback btw

TheEndBringer wrote: »

"Oh but you have to wait 18 seconds." 16, actually, and those 16 go by fast.

know what else goes by fast? - a 5 sec long time window for burst
and besides that as someone else already mentioned before - 16 seconds in an pvp situation is an eternity
if you cant burst someone down in that 16 seconds then its not mechanical to blame

TheEndBringer wrote: »

For the 20th time. ZOS lowered crit chance and gave higher crit damage as the trade off. This set ruins that balance. This set is causing the dumb changes to Battle Spirit. This set IS the problem. You adjust this set properly it can still be useful while walking back the upcoming meta shift where anyone and everyone will be using it.

ok
i checked how much it actually is
for a 5/1/1 build its around 5% crit chance - which is like having 1 pc of slimecraw or not...so.....
i wouldnt call that "breaks the balance" but oke

i also made a build now just to see what is possible
it ended up with
27k hp
18k mag
36k stam
3k stamreg
6k+ wpm dmg
and more than 50% crit chance (already including the pts changes)
ive build this on an kahjiit nightblade - stacked for crit damage
you could easily go for even more wpn dmg or crit
and youre calling mechanical op?
at the end this would be way stronger than mechanical could ever be
besides that even without mechanical its possible to oneshot people out of stealth

im not trying to offend you but to me it just seems like youre tired of getting ganked/bombed and instead of solving the "l2p issue" you just wanna get rid of that playstile

like i said the set is fine as it is

divnyi

neferpitou73 wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Delay the trigger by 3 secs, reduce CD by 3 secs. Will not hit PvE but will make it hard life for the bombers and gankers.

I don't want it to be a hard life for bombers and gankers. Those are perfectly viable playstyles. If I get to annoy people with my ball groups they can annoy me with their bombers.

I think the set is fine as it is. It requires skill to time and is relatively high risk, high reward. If any change is made to it it should be to revert it to it's previous state.

The only issue I have with MA right now is that crit damage is ridiculously OP right now. But that isn't the fault of the set, ball groups were running crit damage during no-proc. The "issue" with MA is the extra 1000 spell and weapon dmg ZOS gave and how it stacks with all the crit multipliers. You fix that and the problem with MA goes away.

I don't like MA as bombing meta. Previously people run bunch of different things to combo with VD, now it is one set, so strong in burst that even stambombers use it.

Besides, you can still proc it 3 secs before with some LA and go in. Just bit more telegraphed.

I run MA on 2 chars btw, it's not like I won't take a hit. But lets not put a blind eye on the fact that this set is the best burst set for NBs, if you aim for one big burst. I use it on snipeblade too, allows burst down up to 24k without any chance of retaliation, up to ~28k in 3 GCD with bombard finish (so no dodge).

MA is kinda ok when we talk about PvE. When we talk about game mode where DPS doesn't matter, and only burst matter, MA is S tier. And it's not only because "crit damage is too high" (which is only true for CP), it is because trigger is way easier now - I'm using MA since they changed the trigger, it was always good since then. It got huge attention now that other burst sets got nerf bat with proc set scaling.