Need hardmodes pleaseeee plz plz

spacefracking

Please add a hardmodes that raises the drop rewards, xp, or something and makes all of the mobs, delves, and public dungeons harder? I can solo everything in the game naked, with the exception of elsweyr dragons. Plz plz plz plz. I still do overworld stuff, but everything is either a one or a two shot, and as a result, I can't even use combos, which makes the complex, and very cool, combat system completely irrelevant. Like, on par with cyrodiil resource fights would be awesome. Those are actual fights, tho some uppity people would call them far too easy as well (and I can be flipping the flag in less than 20 seconds after doing literally thousands of them).

Whenever I try and get people to come play eso, they complain that it's too easy. [snip]

[edited for profanity bypass]

jecks33

here we go again......

Treeshka

We probably need another Craglorn but bigger and harder.

CHM228

Yeah overland contents except few things are really joke with end game character..

BohnT2

CHM228 wrote: »

Yeah overland contents except few things are really joke with end game character..

with any char, you can go afk while being attacked and the game will kick you due to inactivity before the NPCs will kill you

colossalvoids

I'd take it without anything extra tbh.

MrZeDark

I just wish they'd make a new Difficulty beyond HM in Group Dungeons and Trials.

But I also agree, you should be able to opt into harder overland content, though I think it should separate those who are and those who are not - So you dont have people on normal mode crushing a boss for you, that should otherwise be harder. This is probably the primary reason they haven't done this - as it's a lot of server power to create yet more instances of areas.

Jameson18

Treeshka wrote: »

We probably need another Craglorn but bigger and harder.

This would be epic.

CaffeinatedMayhem

The zone that got nerfed because it wasn't popular and no one would do it... you think ZOS will make more if you keep making these topics every week?

I'm going with... no.

MashmalloMan

Don't need to make a dedicated zone, there should just be an option, buff drink, a totem in town, WHATEVER so that people can play the game the way they want with some semblence of difficulty.

It would be nice to actually care about the story quest dlc's they release twice a year by allowing us to feel somewhat challenged instead of reaching the end of the main story to 2 tap the "big bad". It feels pointless. It's the equivillant or even worse of fetch quests from other mmos that require you to collect 100 fur from wolves.

If ZOS can offer +50-150% experience potions and events with double experience, loot drops, etc, then why is it so hard to believe that a self-imposed debuff for overland content akin to the single player elder scrolls games difficulty slider would be advantagous for people. Idealy it should have some sort of benefit like 10% increased loot drop or +50% exp gain, just so it's also somewhat rewarding beyond RP reasons, but nothing crazy that would destroy the in game economy (which btw, is already destroyed on PC NA).

To add to this.. it would give an actual purpose to companions.

Tannus15

i'd love to see a HM for dungeons that applies to the entire dungeon instead of just the end boss with a chance to drop gold rewards

Likewise a "veteran" setting for overland.

spacefracking

I don't want a new zone. I want the zones I like, but the mobs are difficult and require skill to kill. Cyrodiil resource guards have more health, stuns, immobilizes, snares, negates, etc., their attacks actually hit hard. The rest of the game would be a lot more fun if there was an option to turn it on, and get like, more gold or something. Not even purple drops. Just like, something to justify turning hard mode on for the average player. We have very dungeons, but there is 50x more excellently done content that is so incredibly easy that having mobs in it is about as much an impediment as the furniture.

Make all the great content in this game harder to play so I can't just run through everything, 1 shotting everything, wearing no armor. I could convince people to come play the game with me!

Darkstorne

Treeshka wrote: »

We probably need another Craglorn but bigger and harder.

Specifically designed "end game zones" are a bad idea, because the majority of players won't be interested in visiting (and therefore buying) them. Craglorn is a lesson we need to learn from.

A Potential Solution:
Look at TESV: Skyrim. Easy mobs and areas are mixed in with harder mobs and areas all the time. How many players visited that giant camp outside Whiterun and were sent flying into the sky? Okay, they died, but they quickly learned giants and mammoths are best ignored at low levels, and they should stick to wolves and bandits instead. Even bears and sabre cats were worth being extra cautious around and possibly ignoring at first. That didn't alienate a bunch of players from the game who couldn't understand level ranges etc. It made sense, it was easy to understand, and the game is still insanely popular to this day.



ZOS might want to try designing zones like that - where most of a map and content is still accessible to new players and levelling alts, but there are certain dungeons and areas that are balanced for solo play with end-game gear, not only providing a challenge but also a reason to keep revisiting maps at high levels to clear up content that you skirted around before because your character wasn't a demi-god yet, and getting your revenge on the giant that kicked your ass last time you visited



EDIT: The other advantage of this solution is it doesn't remove that powerful feeling of progression you have from steamrolling the majority of enemies you come across (hey, you put in the time, you earned that feeling). Bandits and wolves will still melt around you. It's the enemies who should be able to stand toe-to-toe with you that will be able to do so. You get your hard-mode content and still feel like a powerhouse at the same time.

rauyran

How much do you want it? If ZOS made a super hard paid DLC would you buy it?

rauyran

Darkstorne wrote: »

Look at TESV: Skyrim. Easy mobs and areas are mixed in with harder mobs and areas all the time.

This doesn't work in multiplayer games. There will always be a higher level player who will be killing the tougher mob.

Darkstorne

rauyran wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

Look at TESV: Skyrim. Easy mobs and areas are mixed in with harder mobs and areas all the time.

This doesn't work in multiplayer games. There will always be a higher level player who will be killing the tougher mob.

And that's a problem... why?

tomofhyrule

Darkstorne wrote: »

ZOS might want to try designing zones like that - where most of a map and content is still accessible to new players and levelling alts, but there are certain dungeons and areas that are balanced for solo play with end-game gear, not only providing a challenge but also a reason to keep revisiting maps at high levels to clear up content that you skirted around before because your character wasn't a demi-god yet, and getting your revenge on the giant that kicked your ass last time you visited

EDIT: The other advantage of this solution is it doesn't remove that powerful feeling of progression you have from steamrolling the majority of enemies you come across (hey, you put in the time, you earned that feeling). Bandits and wolves will still melt around you. It's the enemies who should be able to stand toe-to-toe with you that will be able to do so. You get your hard-mode content and still feel like a powerhouse at the same time.

Ooh, that's a good idea. Maybe they could design each zone and the respective story to be pretty easy for total newbies, but then they could have a few boss-like creatures around the world that would be a bit harder to kill as a new player. That way once you can solo it, you really get that feeling of accomplishment. They might also put in special dungeons or something where you get loads more mobs and a few of those bosses, where you're meant to go in as a group, and then you can go back later go get your revenge. I'd even like it if in DLC zones, these bosses maybe even ended up on the harder side with some mechanics too. Heck, put in a second one of these dungeons for fun!

...you know, kind of like the WBs and the Public Dungeons that we already have...

Seriously, I get the whole 'feeling of accomplishment' thing. When I soloed my first WB, it felt great - especially since I play a tank with the associated tank-level DPS. Now even bosses in the group dungeons that gave me problems when I was first starting out are nothing, and it feels incredible - I remember I used to get one-shot by the first boss in nMoS, and yesterday I went in there with just me and Bastian and cleared it... even though I was in my full 0 DPS Yol gear set against the three wyresses.

The thing that most of these perpetual threads (see also 'we need Deathmatch only BG queue!' and 'we need to exclude DLCs in random normals!') miss is that yes, this does give you the option to do something while leaving the normal state alone, but this is still at the expense of other players. Imagine if everyone who wanted to go to the 'hardmode overland' instance did so. Now imagine a new player who just ported into normal Northern Elsweyr when there isn't an event going on. If all of the pros left, how will this lonely newbie take down the south dragon? Is anyone going to help out? Is anyone even around?

So what does this person do? They either go into the vet instance since that's where all the people are, get killed by every random Hackwing, and then come complain about the difficulty on the forums. Or they quit playing. Or they don't even bother going to vet overland, they just see a dead zone and quit the game outright. Fact is, taking the vets out to their own 'special' zone will just raise the barrier to entry for a new player, which means that fewer new players will want to join in, so the game will just have only its population... which will dwindle over time.

One of the things that made ESO so accessible is that new players can get help from vets and learn from them if need be. We're not forcing people to get one-shot by wasps over and over until they ragequit anymore. Sure, it's still tough to get a WB down in a less active zone (loads of people are in Vvardenfell, but so few of them will answer a /z 'LFM at Wuyuvus'), but at least new players have a chance of getting help.

Of course, the only thing ZOS could easily do is raise the damage the enemies do and reduce the damage they take - so basically making the enemies damage sponges. People with a low damage build (so, people who play supports) would have a tougher time, and that would just push everyone to play DDs, which isn't really helping either the 'play as you want' idea or the 'people don't like playing supports since it takes longer' idea. If you want to add mechanics, or improve the AI, or do anything other than make them into sponges, that'll take time. And money. And that means they have to focus on that instead of making new content. So that means there will be fewer people to come in for a newbie boom, but they're still expected to make the same level content. So that means the vet stuff will cost more. And does that mean that the 'hardmode overland' is a free DLC? Then who's paying for the labor there? Or is hardmode a new chapter? And how many, since that's a lot of zones already in the game?

In short: adding a hardmode overland could make some players very happy. It could also make it so new players are left to languish in the normal zone, end up quitting, and thereby reduce the number of players in the game overall because anyone who could help is now in a different zone. And adding mechanics to established stuff means less stuff they add in later content, which could spell less money for the game to run.

Darkstorne

tomofhyrule wrote: »

...you know, kind of like the WBs and the Public Dungeons that we already have...

Yeah, I guess you could make that argument. I think something in-between the difficulty of regular overland mobs and world bosses is what I'd argue for, since WBs and public dungeons are designed for groups so still out of reach for many CP160+ players relaxing for an evening's solo play session. But I totally agree with your sentiment that WBs are a fantastic option for people seeking that end-game solo challenge, and they certainly prove that there's nothing wrong with having harder content in maps alongside easy content.

hafgood

And how is this mythical hard mode going to be paid for? You are talking hours and hours of work per zone, 6 world bosses, 6 delve bosses, public dungeon bosses, all mobs, plus quests.

Where is the money coming from to pay for all this?

Each boss wpuld need revisiting with new mechs added to them because just giving them more health wouldn't be enough.

And how do you set the mode? Do you have different instances for each mode?

And why better drops? Surely the reward is the harder content so drops should be no better than on normal, yes dungeons and trials give better rewards but all that happens is those who are more powerful become even more powerful. Soon we get the cry of hard mode isn't hard enough, we need God mode. And then that won't be enough.

And all this has to be paid for.

Where is the money coming from? It could maybe be done from the normal monies Zos gets if all development over and above new chapters / dlc is paused for a number of years. Maybe.

the1andonlyskwex

These threads always lose me when someone suggests that the new "hard mode" also drop better loot. This time it happened in the OP.

If hard mode drops better loot, everyone (including new players and people who like things the way they are) will feel forced/obligated to enable it, because normal mode will feel like a waste of time in comparison.

Also, anyone who claims to be one-shotting stuff while running around naked is either lying, only attacking "critters" (which is effectively lying), or playing a low level alt (because of how level scaling works). The difference in damage between no gear and purple gear is something like a factor of 3, and I know that in all purple gear most overland mobs are in the 2-6 shot range.

code65536

If you want hard content, you should be running dungeons, trials, or arenas.

Hard content doesn't work in the overland. Why not? Because there is no way to control the encounters.

For example, look at dragons. They're extremely hard if you're solo. But during the event, you're scrambling to just hit it with something before it dies. Not only is the overland visited by players spanning a wide range of skill levels, but there is no way to control how players encounter enemies. Balance something for a solo player, and it will become a joke if other nearby players join in. Balance it for a group of 4, and it can still become a joke (Dragons during the event) while frustrating solo players (Dragons during off-hours outside the event).

This is why the truly hard (and interesting) PvE fights will always be relegated to controlled instances.

spacefracking

Darkstorne wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

We probably need another Craglorn but bigger and harder.

Specifically designed "end game zones" are a bad idea, because the majority of players won't be interested in visiting (and therefore buying) them. Craglorn is a lesson we need to learn from.

A Potential Solution:
Look at TESV: Skyrim. Easy mobs and areas are mixed in with harder mobs and areas all the time. How many players visited that giant camp outside Whiterun and were sent flying into the sky? Okay, they died, but they quickly learned giants and mammoths are best ignored at low levels, and they should stick to wolves and bandits instead. Even bears and sabre cats were worth being extra cautious around and possibly ignoring at first. That didn't alienate a bunch of players from the game who couldn't understand level ranges etc. It made sense, it was easy to understand, and the game is still insanely popular to this day.



ZOS might want to try designing zones like that - where most of a map and content is still accessible to new players and levelling alts, but there are certain dungeons and areas that are balanced for solo play with end-game gear, not only providing a challenge but also a reason to keep revisiting maps at high levels to clear up content that you skirted around before because your character wasn't a demi-god yet, and getting your revenge on the giant that kicked your ass last time you visited



EDIT: The other advantage of this solution is it doesn't remove that powerful feeling of progression you have from steamrolling the majority of enemies you come across (hey, you put in the time, you earned that feeling). Bandits and wolves will still melt around you. It's the enemies who should be able to stand toe-to-toe with you that will be able to do so. You get your hard-mode content and still feel like a powerhouse at the same time.

I like level scaling, and customizing zones would take so much work it's a non starter. Creating a mitigation modifier on mobs/players already exists in places like cyrodiil, and creating a loot table modifier also already exists (chest drop quality improvement champion points, vet dungeons, gold drop amount etc). The feature seems like a no brainer, and would breathe a ton of life back into this massive volume of content, and give me something to tell to the haters who say eso is too easy (which tbh, overland is annoying easy. I want to actually use the combat skills I've developed by pvp-ing and soloing group content.)

Parasaurolophus

Stop equating new players with casuals. Many are disappointed when, after a couple of months of playing, they discover that all of Tamriel is a large starting area. Yes, there are dungeons and trials, but this is group content and you can only launch this content if you find other willing players.

CaffeinatedMayhem

BrownChicken wrote: »

Stop equating new players with casuals. Many are disappointed when, after a couple of months of playing, they discover that all of Tamriel is a large starting area. Yes, there are dungeons and trials, but this is group content and you can only launch this content if you find other willing players.

Incorrect, you can enter and create any group instance as a solo player. You want really hard? Go solo a vet DLC dungeon, there are some where mechanics permit. Go see how far you can get in a trial solo.

ESO has not made it's popularity on being a super hard "traditional" MMO - it is extremely unlikely ZOS will change that to suit a small group of vocal players. It's pretty obvious the current model is working, so maybe explore some of the ways that DO exist for you to modify your own game difficulty.

Parasaurolophus

Incorrect, you can enter and create any group instance as a solo player. You want really hard? Go solo a vet DLC dungeon, there are some where mechanics permit. Go see how far you can get in a trial solo.

Sounds like a mockery ... Why? Group should remain group, solo should be solo. I just want the overland and questing to be more than a walking / dialogue simulator. I want to play more in ECO, I want to travel around the location and perform interesting and useful tasks. Alas, all overland zones are simply dead, coming to life only during events.

ESO has not made it's popularity on being a super hard "traditional" MMO - it is extremely unlikely ZOS will change that to suit a small group of vocal players. It's pretty obvious the current model is working, so maybe explore some of the ways that DO exist for you to modify your own game difficulty.

Eso began to gain popularity with the release of the first DLC`s. IC was a very interesting and popular area at the start. Only after some time began to appear complaints about pvp in IC. Orsinium has already taken this path, the same casual one. The dailys first appeared there. I got tired of zerg bosses and doing quests for delves pretty quickly. I then thought that we already have 15 exactly the same zones as Orsinium, why do we need one more?

kojou

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

The zone that got nerfed because it wasn't popular and no one would do it... you think ZOS will make more if you keep making these topics every week?

I'm going with... no.

The zone became unpopular because it was hard (even a simple wasp took effort to kill), and there was no reward that made it worth dealing with.

There was a time when Anomolies (and certain bosses) in Craglorn were very popular because they gave a lot of XP, but at that time the developers were stamping out high XP rated content because... reasons, so Craglorn became a place that didn't give more XP than anywhere else, was harder, and the sets were boring and not good for any content (Martial Knowledge was not even good for forcing healers to wear at the time).

The thing is, players will group up and do hard content if there is a incentive to do so (look at dragons during the Elsweyr event). There was just no incentive in Craglorn that made anything worth doing more than once and the story wasn't really compelling enough to repeat either.

Ishtarknows

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

If hard mode drops better loot, everyone (including new players and people who like things the way they are) will feel forced/obligated to enable it, because normal mode will feel like a waste of time in comparison.

Well it's certainly not been the case for arenas. More and more of the newer players joining our trials guild are only doing nMA/ nVH for their staff etc and it certainly shows in their performance when they get into a vet trial, but that aside. I doubt the casuals will be bothered about the vet overland should we get one.

Recapitated

There's plenty of challenging solo content in the game but no reason to do it, no story rails to guide you to it, or it's a grind for a chance at RNG rewards. World bosses and arenas mainly. I should be able to get a decent -- maybe not optimal but decent -- chunk of XP being immersed in the game's story, otherwise there's a tradeoff between being able to participate in the game's group content and quests.

What was there to gain by going to old Craglorn?

SodanTok

code65536 wrote: »

If you want hard content, you should be running dungeons, trials, or arenas.

Hard content doesn't work in the overland. Why not? Because there is no way to control the encounters.

For example, look at dragons. They're extremely hard if you're solo. But during the event, you're scrambling to just hit it with something before it dies. Not only is the overland visited by players spanning a wide range of skill levels, but there is no way to control how players encounter enemies. Balance something for a solo player, and it will become a joke if other nearby players join in. Balance it for a group of 4, and it can still become a joke (Dragons during the event) while frustrating solo players (Dragons during off-hours outside the event).

This is why the truly hard (and interesting) PvE fights will always be relegated to controlled instances.

Scaling difficulty by number of players participating exists. Certain unnamed game about wars and guilds does this along with hard (in terms of ESO) overland.

Its pretty obvious eso is the way it is for sake of getting literally anyone inside and make them spend on pretty skins or paid QoL. If there was will there would be way long time ago to make overland difficulty target the average player not the lowest one.

stefj68

still think the best hard mode challenge is to do world boss naked!

WaltherCarraway

magDK stage IV vamp 5 light