defensive set beyond Pariah?

Rhaegar75

So, it seems that Pariah has become very popular again and I must admit that I am using it too and like it.

I was wondering what has happened to other sets that seem to have disappeared: Crest? Battalion Defender? Brass?

Obviously lots of Health rec based sets are no longer helpful due to the changes to battle spirit but I am curious with regards to what people think about other defensive sets...I'm considering reviving my Crest stuff myself for my DK

Alucardo

There's also armor master. I used to use that a while ago on a magblade dark cloak build.

Vizirith

Remember that crest scales with max health and that you need 44k health to get the same healing from before blackwood, along with the harder proc condition (blocking exactly every 4 secs vs doing nothing) makes it sub par.

Armor master lasts for 10 secs and requires running an armor ability. So you need 5 pieces in whatever main armor you wear but also it needs to be used every 10 secs for max effectiveness. So running elude morph is less useful due to the 40 sec duration. Personally I can only see the use if you can't get pariah, or absolutely need to have the defensive set back barred.

Rhaegar75

Vizirith wrote: »

Remember that crest scales with max health and that you need 44k health to get the same healing from before blackwood, along with the harder proc condition (blocking exactly every 4 secs vs doing nothing) makes it sub par.

Armor master lasts for 10 secs and requires running an armor ability. So you need 5 pieces in whatever main armor you wear but also it needs to be used every 10 secs for max effectiveness. So running elude morph is less useful due to the 40 sec duration. Personally I can only see the use if you can't get pariah, or absolutely need to have the defensive set back barred.

that's exactly my problem...variety seems to be limited.

Vizirith

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Vizirith wrote: »

Remember that crest scales with max health and that you need 44k health to get the same healing from before blackwood, along with the harder proc condition (blocking exactly every 4 secs vs doing nothing) makes it sub par.

Armor master lasts for 10 secs and requires running an armor ability. So you need 5 pieces in whatever main armor you wear but also it needs to be used every 10 secs for max effectiveness. So running elude morph is less useful due to the 40 sec duration. Personally I can only see the use if you can't get pariah, or absolutely need to have the defensive set back barred.

that's exactly my problem...variety seems to be limited.

Yes, hence why pariah is so common now.

Lughlongarm

This meta is all about burst mitigation and Pariah is generally superior to other mitigation sets it also synergizes wonderfully with the vamp undead passive.

But as already mentioned armor master is still being played in builds that want 5+ medium armor + mythic jewelry.

Ironblood is also being used in builds that have ways to paly around the snare, like streak for sorcs for example.

Trinotops

Impreg is a solid choice with crit damage being so high. Back bar Daedric Trickery is another good choice if you don't mind the RNG aspect of it.

DrSlaughtr

Ancient dragon gets overlooked a lot.

YandereGirlfriend

Armor Master is fantastic since you can back-bar it.

Buffer of the Swift is nice for Magicka builds since the 10% mitigation translates into ~6600 Armor that cannot be Penetrated.

The defensive utility of Ancient Dragonguard isn't overwhelming but if you use it as a damage set in tandem with another defensive set you will be quite durable when the proc condition is met.

Speed is a compelling alternative to raw Resists and mitigation and stacking 3 Swift with a source of Major Expedition will allow you to simply avoid a lot of incoming damage.

fred4

I use Juggernaut on my back bar as a magblade. The long cooldown is workable on that class, since you have relative control over engaging and disengaging from a fight. The set has a few problems, though. Regardless of your health, 30% is quite a low proc threshold. Burst hits so hard that it may never activate. It fares rather better against high pressure from, say, a templar, than it does against very high burst. Some nightblades and stamsorc gankers hit right through it. The set does not activate. On the other hand it frequently activates for no reason, particularly from NPC attacks in IC. On balance, while it is a bit unreliable, it's hard to beat 20K resistances while it's active, unless of course you are facing Corrosive Armor or Onslaught. I've tried Blessed Armor in the past, but you'd be surprised how people don't necessarily hit you when you tap the block button. The problem with Blessed is that it does not synergise with speed builds. Blocking and waiting for the set to activate slows you.

JayKwellen

Daedric trickery is also popular now too. It can be back barred by most classes, and while it leaves you more vulnerable to burst (mostly in the beginning of fights and from NBs) once it gets up and running it adds a ton of tankiness.

I've also started seeing more people (solo players at least) back barring specters eye. I'm trying it myself right now even and actually kinda like it. I don't have a way to reliably proc trickery on my back bar, and I don't want to break the bank on pariah, so specter was the play. I like that the buff carries over to the front bar so if I get caught out by AoE burst while I'm on the front bar I still get the mitigation, which is the big downside of back-barring sets like pariah. Armor Master could do this too, but then I'd have to run a ward which I don't have space for on my bars.

There's actually a lot of defensive options out there and creative back-bar defensive set combos that can be made. Pariah is just popular because it's the most straight forward. It's always there, always ready for you, always does the same thing. Simple, reliable, effective. It's basically the Kevlar security blanket of defensive sets.

taugrim

When Blackwood launched, I had to re-think my sets.

PRE-BLACKWOOD
Pre-Blackwood, I was running:

• Merciless Charge
• Syvarra's Scales
• Malacath's Band of Brutality
• Seventh Legion Brute or Fortified Brass backbarred
• 1-pc Swarm Mother (as a stat stick)

BLACKWOOD
With Blackwood, the amount of burst damage has increased significantly, partly due to players moving away from proc sets due to the scaling.

I was running Fortified Brass on both bars for a while, and it definitely helped with survivability in a 5-medium / 2-heavy split. That said, a week ago I tried out Mark of the Pariah, and Mark of the Pariah noticeably out-performed Fortified Brass, especially when it matters (health < 50%). The main issue with Mark of the Pariah is the acquisition cost, as I only run 2 armor pieces (chest + legs), so I had to pick up a mix of jewelry (1 ring) plus weapons.

I tried pairing New Moon Acolyte with Fortified Brass, but in BGs the sustain was painful, even when I frontbarred New Moon Acolyte so that my buffs and heals were not taxed 5%.

I have also picked up Engine Guardian to help with sustain (it's gameable) and for avoidance to single-target attacks.

Another set I started running in Blackwood is Titanborn Strength, due to the boosts to pen and weapon damage as health drops. Titanborn Strength synergizes very strongly with Mark of the Pariah, as the latter provides some durability as you get low on health. I'm still trying to get the right traits on the right pieces (I prefer Well-Fitted on armor and Infused on jewelry), but regardless TBS + Pariah works great.

So I'm running 5-5-2 in Blackwood whereas I was running 5-5-1-1 in pre-Blackwood.

relentless_turnip

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Ancient dragon gets overlooked a lot.

Yes I use this on my stamsorc. It doesn't need tons of mitigation as you have other means. It also gives you as much WD as briarheart. So it's very decent IMO. I am pairing this with stuhns ATM

MrMazurski

Currently, only pariah can guarantee you any protection (and Fortified Brass).
The rest of the heavy sets do not give you any additional defense, only punish you for the heavy set you wear. do not give you a chance to survive in the current high burst dmg meta.

taugrim wrote: »

This weekend I may try out Titanborn Strength, due to the boosts to pen and weapon damage as health drops. On paper, Titanborn Strength should pair up nicely with Mark of the Pariah, as the latter provides some durability as you get low on health. The main issue is I'd have to reconstruct or transmute to Well-Fitted on 3 armor pieces and transmute 2 jewelry pieces to Infused.

Yea, i too wanna test Titanborn Strength on ma StamDK.
Pariah - chest, legs, jewelry
Titanborn Strength - 2h sword, waist, hands, boots,
balrogh monster set. (medium)

I play an orc so I can easily pair it with the Warrior mundus for more dmg.
I want to give up penetration, as Titanborn + balrogh should give me enough of it. That is why I am focusing on the damage

Lughlongarm

Forgot some additional options.

Gaze of Sithis+ Mighty Chudan - Can work great for a setup with 2 offensive sets+ weapon set.

For magicka

Robes of the Hist doesn't have scale, so any build can benefit.
Grace of Gloom - Can be good on some magicka setups. Hard to get access to major evasion as magicka.
Robes of Transmutation - More suited to a healer but very fitted to current meta.
Wizard's Riposte - More suited to a healer but very fitted to current meta.

Joy_Division

A popular bonus in defensive sets was health recovery and with ZOS's change last patch, all those sets have become inefficient and effectively obsolete. Also, a number of proc defensive sets that people got way used to providing them with large boons without building for them have either got outright nerfed or now just don;t scale very well. So it's not surprising that Pariah, which has always been really good, has been rediscovered.

I think for this meta, block is not as good as in the past so sets like Crest and Battalion Defender have lost some value. Damage and burst are so high, I've found avoiding damage (and thus building for speed) or using a set I can backbar (Clever Alch for instance) to have better value.

An older set that may be better now than it was it the past is Steadfast Hero. Was talking with someone who noted it can be backbarred and the first two lines of armor bonus are always active. No way it matches Pariah, but for people who don;t want to drop a fortune getting jewelry, might be worth a try.

DrSlaughtr

relentless_turnip wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Ancient dragon gets overlooked a lot.

Yes I use this on my stamsorc. It doesn't need tons of mitigation as you have other means. It also gives you as much WD as briarheart. So it's very decent IMO. I am pairing this with stuhns ATM

I run it with seventh legion and malacath on my stamden.

divnyi

Aetherial Ascension + Snow Threaders.

Dagoth_Rac

Joy_Division wrote: »

An older set that may be better now than it was it the past is Steadfast Hero. Was talking with someone who noted it can be backbarred and the first two lines of armor bonus are always active. No way it matches Pariah, but for people who don;t want to drop a fortune getting jewelry, might be worth a try.

I hate that like 95% of zones have dolmens or a dolmen-like features (geyser, dragon, harrowstorm, etc.) making jewelry possible to farm. But then a handful of zones do not, making certain sets like Pariah and Bright-Throat much harder to farm than other overland sets.

divnyi

https://youtu.be/AiCZwzuEwVU

And I roll Battalion Defender - obviously, in permablock shell. Yeah, permablock is still here

divnyi

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

An older set that may be better now than it was it the past is Steadfast Hero. Was talking with someone who noted it can be backbarred and the first two lines of armor bonus are always active. No way it matches Pariah, but for people who don;t want to drop a fortune getting jewelry, might be worth a try.

I hate that like 95% of zones have dolmens or a dolmen-like features (geyser, dragon, harrowstorm, etc.) making jewelry possible to farm. But then a handful of zones do not, making certain sets like Pariah and Bright-Throat much harder to farm than other overland sets.

That's still not heavy syvarra level of grind.

Stx

Buffer of the swift is my favorite due to how much penetration people are running. Armor Master is another good one if you are using an armor skill in your build. Nocturnal favor is still pretty good backbar for keeping your health high.

milllaurie

Trial by fire. Shhhh.

Kaysha

milllaurie wrote: »

Trial by fire. Shhhh.

That´s a cool hint. Thanks!

Spurius_Lucilius

milllaurie wrote: »

Trial by fire. Shhhh.

I wonder, does it have a good uptime? On paper it doesn’t seem very good because elemental status effect is a very specific proc condition. I can see it have 100% uptime when you are fighting a MagDk, but it seems to be pretty much useless against stamina toons because it says “elemental” status effect...

vesselwiththepestle

I think poison and disease are elemental status effect, too? Might be very strong on classes without purge. I will test Trial by Fire instead of Pariah on my Stam dk. Very interesting suggestion, @milllaurie !

Spurius_Lucilius

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I think poison and disease are elemental status effect, too? Might be very strong on classes without purge. I will test Trial by Fire instead of Pariah on my Stam dk. Very interesting suggestion, @milllaurie !

If you decide to craft this set, can you test it with duels to verify the proc condition? If you could do that, it would be very helpful!

Zabagad

Spurius_Lucilius wrote: »

milllaurie wrote: »

Trial by fire. Shhhh.

I wonder, does it have a good uptime? On paper it doesn’t seem very good because elemental status effect is a very specific proc condition. I can see it have 100% uptime when you are fighting a MagDk, but it seems to be pretty much useless against stamina toons because it says “elemental” status effect...

At least it must work if you get one of the 49710 days of xxx effects

gariondavey

Zabagad wrote: »

Spurius_Lucilius wrote: »

milllaurie wrote: »

Trial by fire. Shhhh.

I wonder, does it have a good uptime? On paper it doesn’t seem very good because elemental status effect is a very specific proc condition. I can see it have 100% uptime when you are fighting a MagDk, but it seems to be pretty much useless against stamina toons because it says “elemental” status effect...

At least it must work if you get one of the 49710 days of xxx effects

Lmao

Andre_Noir

Spurius_Lucilius wrote: »

milllaurie wrote: »

Trial by fire. Shhhh.

On paper it doesn’t seem very good because elemental status effect is a very specific proc condition.

The trick is that physical status effects are elemental too. So poisoned, bleed, disease count

ThePianist

Pariah is mediocre. Yes you can get 40k+ armor but did everyone forget the max resistance cap in pvp? Also this set doesn’t reduce damage taken from crits ie the bombers running around Cyrodiil. You also don’t gain reduced damage from executes. Once your hp gets below a certain level, execute damage is still execute damage. Unless you’re in mist form or holding block, then that’s another story.

I still think Mazzatun and Juggernaut are still the best defensive sets, hands down. And both sets are one of the last few pre buff sets.

These two sets are literally a reincarnation skill. I don’t know if you guys have ever played the old dota 1. Skeleton King had this skill called reincarnation. You thought you bursted him down but nope, he came back to life.