Crown Crates, Do You Boycott or Gamble?

Syrpynt

Yeah, probably just like others before it, but I want to see some changes on this subject.

My opinions that no one asked for, but Zenimax should know:
* I don't subscribe anymore because I am tired of getting crowns and having nothing but crates to spend them on.
* I would purchase crown-items and purchase additional crowns if items were NOT in crates more frequently.
* I don't gamble, and I never will so Zenimax is losing money from me now.
* The more I see items hidden behind a 3-tier ($ --> Crowns --> Crown Gems) currency pay-wall the more I dislike the game overall[snip]
* Keep your radiant mounts hidden behind crates, fine.
* But maybe allow for 100 gem and lower items to be purchased both/either directly from crowns or found in crates. How? Sell those items for "original prices" if they're subscribers, and 50% more crowns cost for non-subscribers so you make more money?

If you disagree, give a valid reason not: "I don't like seeing others wearing the same thing I am!" Because there are so many aesthetics now in ESO it's going to be so rare to come across more than 3 players wearing/looking the same in a single instance, other than when it just first comes out.

Polling is anonymous.

[edited for bashing]

bridgetrose

I purchase crates. Right now I have 12 of the Ayleid, 4 Dragonscale, 7 ouromboroso and 3 Wild Hunt crates. I open 1 on Monday's and 1 on Friday. I only buy 4 of the ones they bring back for a short time and the only reason I have 12 of the Ayleid is they went on sale and I bought 15 of them before they left the store. The Ouromboros crates are from the week of freebies we just had for twitch. I subscribe, so the crowns I get from that pays for some of this.

Do I expect any amazing things from the crates? No, I'm just having fun. This morning I got a pet, a crown XP scroll, and a riding lesson and some poison. I turned the poison in for gems. I thought that was great. I don't have high expectations of contests but I like presents and that's what they feel like to me. I drag it out for the fun. I'm not greedy I just enjoy the experience.

I don't look at it like gambling. I look at it like I bought myself a gift.

SkaraMinoc

Where's the option for "I don't gamble. I know exactly how much $$ it will take to buy crates and turn them into crown gems to acquire a radiant apex, and I'm okay with that"

jaws343

There's nothing wrong with gambling. I am an adult. I choose how I wish to spend my hard earned money. And sometimes that involves gambling.

xv1_me

[snip]

But yet I still sub and bought Blackwood.

I only buy crowns with gold. Yes I think about the crown seller supporting zos but idc I buy what I want. No point in hoarding gold [snip]

[edited for discussion of disciplinary action]

Alucardo

Always hated them, but every once in a while they add something to them that I just can't ignore. Also they are a good way to make a quick bit of gold, but it makes me feel like I'm selling drugs because how immoral crates are in their current form.

You should be able to outright buy the things you want with crowns, but they know people like me will spend hundreds just to get one item if I have to.
Also, the extraction to gem ratio is awful, and you can't extract everything. Why do I want this stupid furnishing when I don't even own a damn house? Why do I want a memento when 99% of my time is spent in Cyrodiil and they don't work there?
It's ridiculous.

RNGeeze

I don’t generally gamble on scratch tickets or the powerball but my big vice is in game cosmetics, sometimes I get lucky getting what I want early like two of the prior radiant apex mounts within 60 crates; then there’s the misses like last night taking 168 crates to get the two I wanted. Everyone has their own tolerance for these things, it’s nice to have options.

winterscrolls229prerb18_ESO

I "experimented" with that when i was newer.

Turns out it finished itself before leaving any mark on my personality.. mounts are generally excellent, but seem to work one per character. Since i only have 2 characters, it turned out now i have a few more excellent mounts that i love but don't use, which is a waste. Bought those for crowns.

Given how slimy zenimax are with nerfing endeavors on the second day, ill stop giving free market research because goodwill works 2 ways... but the only thing i do with crown crates now uses twitch gems as the main means of getting them. If i need to gamble to make the difference then possibly.

Id love to say more, but its just going to weaponize the crown store against you now. I guess its always been like that.

RNGeeze

winterscrolls229prerb18_ESO wrote: »

I "experimented" with that when i was newer.

Turns out it finished itself before leaving any mark on my personality.. mounts are generally excellent, but seem to work one per character. Since i only have 2 characters, it turned out now i have a few more excellent mounts that i love but don't use, which is a waste. Bought those for crowns.

Given how slimy zenimax are with nerfing endeavors on the second day, ill stop giving free market research because goodwill works 2 ways... but the only thing i do with crown crates now uses twitch gems as the main means of getting them. If i need to gamble to make the difference then possibly.

Id love to say more, but its just going to weaponize the crown store against you now. I guess its always been like that.

For what it’s worth they didn’t nerf endeavor’s as they never said the daily rewards were static; on pts they varied quite a bit so this feels par for the course. The seal prices on the other hand will need some adjusting before they find the sweet spot.

Danikat

There's no answer for me. I don't buy crown crates because I don't buy anything where I don't know in advance what I'm getting. I also don't subscribe but for entirely unrelated reasons, it's not some sort of protest, the subscription model just doesn't work for me.

But yes I would spend a lot more if the legendary and lower tier items were available in the crown store as direct purchases, and used to spend a lot more before most of the items started going into crates instead of the crown store. I don't care about apex and radiant apex mounts, there's been maybe 3 or 4 in total I'd consider buying and I probably wouldn't have bought all of them. But there's often one or two things in the lower tiers I'd buy if they were available directly.

That's another factor: the crates are probably fine if you want all or most of the stuff, but if you only want a couple of items, which would normally cost between 300 and 3000 crowns depending on what they are, the prospect of buying an unknown number of crates to get them as drops or get enough useless duplicates to build up crowns is decidedly unappealing.

TheImperfect

None of the above. I don't boycott them but I rarely buy them because I don't have enough money for everything. I like houses and furnishings and all sorts of other things so I can't just buy everything, don't have an infinite bank balance unfortunately.

Fischblut

I purchase Crown Crates, and don't have a problem with gambling.

Some seasons, I open lot of crates crates cause I like too many items there.



Other seasons, I open not as many crates.



Sometimes I open just some crates. And sometimes I skip whole seasons cause nothing interests me enough

In Iron Atronach season, I like only Black Forge Iron Senche and few more cheap items. So I already wait for the next season I dislike Jester's theme, but I am always curious about new mounts.

what_the

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Where's the option for "I don't gamble. I know exactly how much $$ it will take to buy crates and turn them into crown gems to acquire a radiant apex, and I'm okay with that"

I'm going with this one also....

Gaebriel0410

I never gamble IRL, as I don't feel like throwing money down a drain for a miniscule chance of getting more than I put in.

I usually buy one 15-pack of crates when they come out, unless there's really only one or two things I like, in which case I use gems instead, or buy a smaller pack. I have excellent self control when it comes to stuff like this, and I know exactly what it'll cost me.

I'd never chase apex mounts let alone radiants, since I prefer realistic mounts that fit with the game's setting. Sure the flashy ones do too, but I think most of those are too one of a kind for the average Tamriel adventurer to ride, and it would look terrible with my outfits! Some do look very pretty, but it would just feel weird with my characters.

Of course due to Murphy's law, this means I have a bunch of apex mounts, one or two radiants even, which is kind of a shame as I never use them and I wish i could give them away to friends who do like them.

I'm not a fan of loot crates in general, but they're a bit of a guilty pleasure fun, in moderation.
Though I'd much rather see them fill their store for once, instead of 75% of the stuff always being unavailable until the moons align. Time limited stuff doesn't pressure me, so sadly that means I often just have to wait if I want to buy anything.

I'm still convinced they're missing a huge opportunity to milk us roleplayers, by not putting all the fashion in the store permanently.

tomofhyrule

I subscribe. I'm here for the lore and story, the combat and everything else is secondary. And a sub is cheaper than buying all of the DLCs anyway, especially when you take the bonus crowns into account. And I'll find a use for those since I love cosmetics.

I don't like gambling. Seems like a waste, to be perfectly honest. If I want something, I'd rather pay a bit more and get what I want instead of paying less and having a chance to be disappointed.

In ESO, I get that the crates are a huge moneymaker so of course they went with those. At least here, unlike in many other places, they do have a way to get what you want if the crates don't favor you... even if Gems are not exactly that consumer friendly, at least it means that even a crate full of trash will still be getting me closer to what I want.

For the seasons that have a lot of stuff I want, that means I can splurge since I'll be happy with a lot of the stuff. For seasons that I'm not impressed by, I usually pick up a few things with gems and that's it - maybe I'll go for a pack when it's on the expiration sale, but specifically then for gems only.

I'll say that the Ayleid crates were pretty boring for me, so the only ones I bought were the pack a few hours before they left. I got my gems, a bunch of trash face markings that'll never see the light of day, and that was that. The Iron Atro crates... those are awesome, and I already picked up a bunch of those. Still lots of trash, but I did manage the polymorph so I'm happy, and I know I'll be spending some gems or seals on more of that.

I do wish that ZOS would put more things in the actual store though, and maybe rotate some things. There are a lot of things I'd love to get (I'm a sucker for hairstyles) that haven't been in the store for over three and a half years now if at all, and I'd spend way more on hairstyles and personalities then on the chance to get sparklepony-I-don't-care-about #57.

But I also feel that it's my choice how to spend my money. If people don't like it, they don't need to buy it or sub, but I'm going to choose to do what I want based on my situation.

whitecrow

I don't have a problem with gambling. Everything in moderation.

Back in the day I used to buy one 4-pack per season, just to see what I got. After a while I had enough gems to get any lower-cost items I still wanted. I don't go in with hopes of getting an apex mount, although I have gotten four or five. I'm happy with a nice outfit or pet or cosmetic.
Eventually I even had 400 gems to buy the New Moon Wolf mount I really wanted.

Since they started the monster arms (which I think are 2300 or so) I've always tried to leave enough in case I see a set I want (I've got four now). So I'll wait to buy crates until I have 4000 or more crowns saved up. I don't spend the frequently so it only takes a few months.

I think the only crates I bought repeatedly were the recent Ayleid crates because I really wanted the Tree of Life markings. Ended up buying with gems.

DarcyMardin

My problem with gambling is that I think it’s stupid to expect luck to be on your side when everybody knows that the house always wins.

I am fine with spending crowns directly on items that I want…I have spent quite a bit of real money in this game over the years to acquire houses, costumes, the occasional pet or hairstyle. But I won’t throw money away on loot boxes in this or any other game.

Elsonso

I have no issue with subscription games, and subscribe to ESO Plus.

I have never purchased a Crown Crate, outside of bundles, nor have I even opened one on the Live servers. I currently have a few hundred Crown Crates, mainly the ones that come with watching Twitch. Last time I bothered to count, which I think was more than a year ago, I had 300 of them across 4 accounts and all 6 megaservers. All unopened.

I have no problem with gambling. I just don't think that ZOS should have done them.

KaGaOri

How I deal with crates:

1) Buy couple crown packs when on sale.
2) When create season arrives, pick stuff I wan't, count down how many gems / opened crates it will take (+ scratch out stuff if it's too many) aaand WAIT. Wait and wait and wait ... all the way to the last week that crown season is on and gets discounted. Then buy enough crates to get must-have items.
3) Profit.

bridgetrose

KaGaOri wrote: »

How I deal with crates:

1) Buy couple crown packs when on sale.
2) When create season arrives, pick stuff I wan't, count down how many gems / opened crates it will take (+ scratch out stuff if it's too many) aaand WAIT. Wait and wait and wait ... all the way to the last week that crown season is on and gets discounted. Then buy enough crates to get must-have items.
3) Profit.

How do you know how many gems you'll get out of a crate? Is it that predictable?

Syrpynt

Hey everyone, I am appreciating both sides of responses. The poll so far is proving my point. Even if the crate users vs non-crate supporters is 50/50, or like this small polling population sample shows -- 60/40 (repsectively), They are LOSING money by not putting some items for direct purchase. Even if the real population research is 80/20, they are losing 20% of sales due to not making crate items up for direct purchase.

I suggest that the Marketing team review their formula for the crown store if they want additional purchases and customers.

To reinforce my statements: I'm not suggesting get rid of crates, but I am stating to make more direct purchase options again. Even 50/50 or use the subscriber discount method I described in my first post.

Thank you.

Elsonso

Syrpynt wrote: »

Hey everyone, I am appreciating both sides of responses. The poll so far is proving my point. Even if the crate users vs non-crate supporters is 50/50, or like this small polling population sample shows -- 60/40 (repsectively), They are LOSING money by not putting some items for direct purchase

Honestly, the poll does not say that, and cannot say that.

If all they had to do to increase revenue was allow people to purchase directly, the eCommerce people would be all over that like flesh flies on a corpse.

I want them to end the Crown Crates and put all that stuff into the Crown Store for direct purchase. My reasons are not because I think it will generate more revenue. I actually think it will generate less revenue. I really don't care about their revenue. I just think that loot boxes are wrong for studios to use in games that aren't about loot boxes.

Hanokihs

So am I the only one who uses the poisons, tri-pots, and various scrolls/books from the crates? Because it really helps with raising my alts, and saves me time or gold having to harvest resources to get the in-game versions of these things. They're just as good as anything anyone can craft, and I've almost gotten enough riding skill books to max out all 18 of my characters. The chance at the super rare rewards is just a bonus - and now that literally everything can (once again) be bought for gems, I don't even mind pulling duplicates because I know it'll save me money later in a crown season I hate most of the items for.

I also disagree with the prevailing implication around here that only whales can afford to buy a lot of crates. There are probably very few people who spend multiple thousands every time - pretty sure everyone else is just using their standard entertainment budget because they forego some other hobbies. If you don't eat out, don't go to movies, don't drink, don't do any drugs, and/or don't have a bunch of subscriptions like Hulu/Netflix/Crunchyroll, then you'll put those couple hundred bucks toward video games and digital cosmetics instead. Don't underestimate the amount of people who squirrel away thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of crowns during the sales, and spend them in the interim.

Elsonso

Hanokihs wrote: »

So am I the only one who uses the poisons, tri-pots, and various scrolls/books from the crates?

From Crates? No. From Daily Rewards? Yes.

I use the poisons to make sure that ZOS still offers the option to delete them.

I use the free Crown Chicken DInner and Tri-Pots on all characters that are lower than Level 50 so that I don't have to craft food for them.

whitecrow

Hanokihs wrote: »

So am I the only one who uses the poisons, tri-pots, and various scrolls/books from the crates?

To me there's no need. They give us tons of that stuff in the daily rewards. I have around 8 stacks of the tri-stat potions and several of the poisons (which I should just delete because I never use them) as well.

Syrpynt

Elsonso wrote: »

Honestly, the poll does not say that, and cannot say that.

If all they had to do to increase revenue was allow people to purchase directly, the eCommerce people would be all over that like flesh flies on a corpse.

I want them to end the Crown Crates and put all that stuff into the Crown Store for direct purchase. My reasons are not because I think it will generate more revenue. I actually think it will generate less revenue. I really don't care about their revenue. I just think that loot boxes are wrong for studios to use in games that aren't about loot boxes.

If people boycott crates, and don't subscribe because of that, then they are losing money. This forum is a small group that cares what happens in-game. But I don't see the few boycotting crates being the only ones in the entire population. I doubt they are the only 17 players (at the time of this comment).

It's still nearly 40% of the poll so far.

And the eCommerce people don't know that because they've never done that. They haven't ever had half of the items in crates for that season available for direct purchase. They're just following the same crate-rewards system of other games.

RNGeeze

I’m sure they have people crunching the numbers that say it’s good for business. If less people buy crates due to their random nature maybe the ones that do offset it enough for the same reason. It’s a business like any other so if they had data proving otherwise I don’t see why they wouldn’t have shifted to an all crowns store unless they felt having no rng involved diminishes the higher tier rewards.

Elsonso

Syrpynt wrote: »

And the eCommerce people don't know that because they've never done that. They haven't ever had half of the items in crates for that season available for direct purchase. They're just following the same crate-rewards system of other games.

I oppose Crown Crates. I was a founding member of PAWS. I take almost every occasion to speak up against them. However, I do this in the knowledge that the eCommerce people are, for the most part, right. They are right about Crown Crates. They are right about limited time offers. They are right about expensive Crown mounts, items, and houses. We will see about Seals. My objections aren't that they are doing things wrong, but that they are too wed to the methods of psychological manipulation that are at the core of it all.

In my mind, it is better to take a hit to revenue than to exploit your customers for financial gain through the use of gambling and FOMO techniques.

Our interests are aligned, but I think you are underestimating the people who are doing this.

bridgetrose

Hanokihs wrote: »

I also disagree with the prevailing implication around here that only whales can afford to buy a lot of crates. There are probably very few people who spend multiple thousands every time - pretty sure everyone else is just using their standard entertainment budget because they forego some other hobbies. If you don't eat out, don't go to movies, don't drink, don't do any drugs, and/or don't have a bunch of subscriptions like Hulu/Netflix/Crunchyroll, then you'll put those couple hundred bucks toward video games and digital cosmetics instead. Don't underestimate the amount of people who squirrel away thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of crowns during the sales, and spend them in the interim.

When I realized how much I like and play this game and how little anyone around watches Netflix ect I canceled 40.00 worth of stuff that was just eating money for nothing and now I'll apply some of that to buying crowns. This is me exactly.

Jaimeh

Direct sale would be the golden solution, and to go one step further, direct sale without time exclusive restraints. Especially for houses, which are ridiculously expensive and only available for a few days. And from a design point of view, they are just reskins of existing assets in some cases, so there's no justification for the prices and time limits. As for the crates, if the legislation didn't force them, we weouldn't even have Seals of Endeavours. It's a convoluted system, which became increasingly aggressive over time with radiant apex, then gems, then gem exclusives, etc... At least we have crown gifting, so we can get crates this way. I personally buy them each season, with gold if I have it, because I like the items, but I never do it with the intent of getting a particular something, which I think is key. If you do it because of enjoying the opening process and be pleased with whatever happens, it's much better than doing it because you want to drop a given mount. The latter way is dangerous for people with gambling addiction, and the reason why crates are predatory to these players.

Michae

Where's my option?
"I subscribe, I spend my Crowns on housing and stuff, and I buy 2-3 Crate packs a season for gold. I don't care about mounts, I'm after emotes and costumes."