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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861

7 years gone in a moment

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  • RevJJ
    RevJJ
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    Sirvaleen wrote: »
    Really sorry for what happened to OP.

    If his backup isn't restored somehow, it's going to frighten a lot of players once that story spreads. Just saying... better fix it heh ? ;)

    Yeah, who knows what the effect would be if a big gaming website picks up a story like this...
    GenjiraX wrote: »
    Yormula wrote: »
    Automated responses taking weeks and missing the point...

    The number of times I've had to say, "No, that's not what I reported. Please read my initial complaint again." It beggars belief. It's so frustrating that CS often don't even read the ticket properly.

    THIS is one of my biggest frustrations with the customer support for this game. You have to send a mail three times before someone actually reads what you wrote and you might get an answer to your question.

    Mistakes are made, bugs and errors happen, that’s all ok with me. The way a company deals with issues is much more important. In fact, I’m probably more likely to think positively of a company that resolved an issue in a good way than a company that never had an issue in the first place.
  • DarcyMardin
    DarcyMardin
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    What a nightmare! I am so sorry this happened to you. And I sincerely hope that all the appeals for help from ZOS employees on this thread are listened to and that something can be done.
  • kmontywrwb17_ESO
    kmontywrwb17_ESO
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    So... at some point there is going to a lawsuit over stuff like this - most likely a large class action lawsuit. The legal boundaries haven't ever really been tested AFAIK, but it's possible (maybe even likely) the ToS does not insulate companies against virtual property claims and "damage" like this. I personally can't wait until it happens as companies are far too cavalier and apathetic about this stuff.
    Edited by kmontywrwb17_ESO on June 20, 2021 8:44AM
  • Yormula
    Yormula
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    Starlight_Whisper wrote: »
    ...They did though, look at the response. Says check mail
    There's a copy-pasted "ticket is with the correct team" that I have plenty by now, nothing more.
    what_the wrote: »
    ...as in "fix an achievement issue" what's that about?...
    Meta'-achievement for one of the DLC dungeons that I was missing. Did a few runs, got them all eventually, looked at the meta - it said I didn't have completion and hardmode, which I did. After all, hard to get the speedrun one without completion, one would think.

    Now, I could re-run it, except that it would not help. As I already had completion and hardmode, they would not trigger again, and it's them and not the underlying condition that triggers the meta. You don't get meta progress for killing the boss, you get it for acquiring the relevant achievement.

    In this case removing completion and hardmode achievements from me would allow me to try again. Simple bunny-resurrection.
  • Kalik_Gold
    Kalik_Gold
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    I don’t understand why he just can’t tell them a random list of what he has done and they generate him a character with all of it done? Makes sense to me. Then give him a race and name token, and he can attempt to recreate the look.

    This can be done right?
    Main: (PvP & PvE)
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP:
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: (Specialty)
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade

    Leveling...
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer
    ======
    Passives of another race used. (RP)
    *Breton
    **Imperial




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion

  • SammyKhajit
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    This is just heartbreaking. Sorry OP and others similarly affected for all this you have to go through.
  • Alurria
    Alurria
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    @Yormula I hope you come back and keep us posted if anything is resolved for you?
  • Yormula
    Yormula
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    @Alurria Sure, although you shouldn't probably hold your breath on this one.
  • NylAR
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    Abigail wrote: »
    Wonder why everyone is surprised about dismal lack of customer support. It has always been this way -- always -- largely automated to realize a greater net profit.

    If you don't like it, vote with your checkbook and quit the game. ZOS will never change.

    Never been like that for me. I've played for 7 years and not once have I had bad customer service experience. Quite the opposite actually. I'm not going to say automated reepsones don't suck, they do, but I've never had to wait longer than a full 24hr cycle. And I've had really really big issues. Like completely losing everything on my account and having to start again from literal 0.

    I cannot speak the same about forum mods though. For the tiny amount of time I've been registered and going here on the forums I've seen mod reactions and actions that had me scratch my head in total disbelief. It's like mods aren't even human and completely ignore context or any sense of writing, take everything at face value and proceed to action based on single words that aren't even offensive or in violation of ToS to begin with in the whole sense of statements.

    /Shrug

    It's almost strange how these 2 sides are so black and white, because a month ago I'd be the one saying I've never been a witness to a better customer service team in any game (maybe except WoW back in the day) and forums took it from 9/10 to 2/10.
    Edited by NylAR on June 20, 2021 2:04PM
  • Lauranae
    Lauranae
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    NylAR wrote: »
    Abigail wrote: »
    Wonder why everyone is surprised about dismal lack of customer support. It has always been this way -- always -- largely automated to realize a greater net profit.

    If you don't like it, vote with your checkbook and quit the game. ZOS will never change.

    Never been like that for me. I've played for 7 years and not once have I had bad customer service experience. Quite the opposite actually. I'm not going to say automated reepsones suck, they do, but I've never had to wait longer than a full 24hr cycle. And I've had really really big issues. Like completely losing everything on my account and having to start again from literal 0.

    I cannot speak the same about forum mods though. For the tiny amount of time I've been registered and going here on the forums I've seen mod reactions and actions that had me scratch my head in total disbelief. It's like mods aren't even human and completely ignore context or any sense of writing, take everything at face value and proceed to action based on single words that aren't even offensive or in violation of ToS to begin with in the whole sense of statements.

    /Shrug

    It's almost strange how these 2 sides are so black and white, because a month ago I'd be the one saying I've never been a witness to a better customer service team in any game (maybe except WoW back in the day) and forums took it from 9/10 to 2/10.

    3 days ago. i was attempting a quest in SUmmerset. As soon as i entered the place i knew something was wrong. Used the help for quest, explaining point par point what i did to try to resolve, and what was the problem. i receive the famous ticket number immediatly. I open the mail corresponding and TADAA!!!! i had the basic answer, asking me to redo the same things i just did and after to report the bug.
    So i go on the forum, and before, i decide to do a search for the quest. And guess what ? the bug has been posted on Jun 1st.
    So 15 days later, the support is not even aware of that. I would have rather prefer an answer saying : we are sorry, we know that this is a bug quest, and the team is actually working on it.

    This is what i expect from a support. That they have the knowledge of what is important or not, and they should have the means to help us on the moment for some things. For that bug, we were about 14 personnes and more wanted to do it on this same evening, they could have simply move our characters down to the npc. (if this is not easy to do, then the game has something wrong because i had this happening on numerous other game, and then we could go on questing)
    Edited by Lauranae on June 20, 2021 2:03PM
    My most recent characters
    AD - Chjara NB
    -
  • Ackwalan
    Ackwalan
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    I've never understood why it takes 12 to 24 hours to get that first automated response. It's automated, why the wait?
  • magus.septim
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    The PTS gets a copy of your character by default every time they do a big release, my character was cloned to the pts about 2 months ago before the expansion for example. They should be able to restore your character AT LEAST from that point
  • magus.septim
    magus.septim
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    Login to the PTS to see the state of your character last time they cloned it
  • ectoplasmicninja
    ectoplasmicninja
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    magus.septim wrote: »
    Login to the PTS to see the state of your character last time they cloned it

    OP said the original ticket is 9 months old. We've had several PTS cycles since then.
    PC NA, CP2200+. Character creation is the true endgame.
  • magus.septim
    magus.septim
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    ectoplasmicninja wrote: »
    magus.septim wrote: »
    Login to the PTS to see the state of your character last time they cloned it

    OP said the original ticket is 9 months old. We've had several PTS cycles since then.

    Sure by my point still remains. The PTS should have a more recent copy of your character than starting from Nothing
  • ectoplasmicninja
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    How? His character didn't just get corrupted, and it was apparently corrupted all at once. So if his character was wiped 9 months ago and he hasn't played it since, how is a copy of it from 2 months ago going to be any different from what he has right now?
    PC NA, CP2200+. Character creation is the true endgame.
  • magus.septim
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    ectoplasmicninja wrote: »
    How? His character didn't just get corrupted, and it was apparently corrupted all at once. So if his character was wiped 9 months ago and he hasn't played it since, how is a copy of it from 2 months ago going to be any different from what he has right now?

    I see, I thought it was more recent. Still worth checking out anyway.
  • WildRaptorX
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    Used to always have good responses from support. With instant help and fixes. Now they take too long to reply and don’t even fix the problem and are extremely vague.

    Think I’m one more unresolved bug away from washing my hands with eso.
    Edited by WildRaptorX on June 21, 2021 5:12AM
  • CSose
    CSose
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    Good luck with your issue.

    I feel like ZOS had been 'phoning it in' for about a year before the pandemic hit. Depending on how much you've invested into the game your last resort might be to seek a refund if they don't resolve your issue.
  • pamichic
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    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_Adrikoth @ZOS_AntonioP can any of you help???

    I would be absolutely devastated. This is not acceptable and they should have a better answer for you.

    I'm very sorry OP 😔
  • Vanathil
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    HedgehogFeet wrote: »
    Who is Brad & what happened with his ex? Is he a character in the game?

    OP This is so sad I hope this thread stays visible & they give you some kind of decent resolution

    Here's Brad's wife, later it became a meme:
    https://youtu.be/vZlmUG00OrI

    OP, I truly hope that after this thread, calling out this disaster, the situation will be resolved in urgent matter. It's really sad that even after 9 months it's still unresolved, it fills me with disbelief towards the company.
  • Casdha
    Casdha
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    Yormula wrote: »
    Starlight_Whisper wrote: »
    ...They did though, look at the response. Says check mail
    There's a copy-pasted "ticket is with the correct team" that I have plenty by now, nothing more.
    what_the wrote: »
    ...as in "fix an achievement issue" what's that about?...
    Meta'-achievement for one of the DLC dungeons that I was missing. Did a few runs, got them all eventually, looked at the meta - it said I didn't have completion and hardmode, which I did. After all, hard to get the speedrun one without completion, one would think.

    Now, I could re-run it, except that it would not help. As I already had completion and hardmode, they would not trigger again, and it's them and not the underlying condition that triggers the meta. You don't get meta progress for killing the boss, you get it for acquiring the relevant achievement.

    In this case removing completion and hardmode achievements from me would allow me to try again. Simple bunny-resurrection.

    I think you hit on a larger underlying issue. I have had several group dungeons (normal, not hard) that I have completed clear their completion status on the map after a version update. (some it has happened to more than once). how can I have the trophy hanging up in my home if it hasn't been completed?

    edit: I always chalked it up to they must have changed or added something to the dungeon.
    Edited by Casdha on June 20, 2021 3:33PM
    Proud member of the Psijic Order - The first wave - The 0.016%

  • RupzSkooma
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    Offline game > Online game.
    Especially when certain offline games receives a long time support. I so wish TES V Skyrim would have received Paradox like support and I wouldn’t have to worry about these things.
    Sad story.
    Edited by RupzSkooma on June 20, 2021 6:01PM
    Elder Kings II is a Role Playing Elder Scrolls mod for Crusader Kings III.
    FudgeMuppet: The New Elder Scrolls Game I've Been Secretly Playing
    EK II (1.12.5V)
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    Yormula wrote: »
    Starlight_Whisper wrote: »
    ...They did though, look at the response. Says check mail
    There's a copy-pasted "ticket is with the correct team" that I have plenty by now, nothing more.
    what_the wrote: »
    ...as in "fix an achievement issue" what's that about?...
    Meta'-achievement for one of the DLC dungeons that I was missing. Did a few runs, got them all eventually, looked at the meta - it said I didn't have completion and hardmode, which I did. After all, hard to get the speedrun one without completion, one would think.

    Now, I could re-run it, except that it would not help. As I already had completion and hardmode, they would not trigger again, and it's them and not the underlying condition that triggers the meta. You don't get meta progress for killing the boss, you get it for acquiring the relevant achievement.

    In this case removing completion and hardmode achievements from me would allow me to try again. Simple bunny-resurrection.

    This suggests there was an underlying corruption to your account data from before you first contacted support.

    I remember a conversation I had with Finn a couple years ago, where I asked about whether they planned to alter the previous trifecta awards (like Worm Wizard or Blackmarrow Necromancer) to be awarded for vet completion (so, this was probably ahead of either the 2019 Q1 or Q3 dungeon releases.) The issue he explained was that when you start changing existing achievements, you risk of database corruption.

    I'm also not entirely certain it's possible, even with bracket commands, to safely add or remove achievements. So, asking customer support to remove the achievement was probably a bad idea from the start, though you had no way of knowing that. It also leads to the distinct possibility that every issue since then has been a direct result of failsafes kicking in with your account, possibly things that customer support didn't even know about.

    Realistically, the only option to salvage your character would, probably, be to have a developer (an actual developer, not a CS rep) hand configure a custom template for you, for that character. But, when you're looking at an achievement score over 30k, that would be a lot of work.
  • Yormula
    Yormula
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    starkerealm wrote: »
    This suggests there was an underlying corruption to your account data from before you first contacted support.

    ...The issue he explained was that when you start changing existing achievements, you risk of database corruption...

    ...Realistically, the only option to salvage your character would, probably, be to have a developer (an actual developer, not a CS rep) hand configure a custom template for you, for that character...
    I do not dispute that there might have been valid causes that made the problem unavoidable. Neither do I dispute that the character (or, hell, whole account) might not be realistically salvageable at this point.

    Process management, however... There are at least 4 ways to approach the situation that would not have lead to where I am now.

    1. In an ideal world - not have the underlying technical issue. Nothing is perfect, though, so scratch that.

    2. Making a backup before any intervention. It could be technically not possible, yet the implications of this sub-scenario are frightening.

    3. Admitting an impasse. At day 1, or week 1, or, hell, even month 1. "We cannot do that, these are the options that we could do". Mistakes happen, it's the readiness to face them and try to fix them that matters. Mind you, if your assumption is correct, fixing would involve installing an additional failsafe that would at least prevent character burns for other players in similar future cases.

    4. Cutting costs. Banning the whole account for "ToS violation" that "cannot be disclosed" immediately after the incident, followed by a forum ban. Wouldn't make me happy, obviously, but at least would show integrity in pursuing efficiency in the business-model.


    This here, on the other hand - and we're getting back to my original point - is just plain inefficiency. It hurts the players, it hurts the company, it hurts the game. Lose-lose.
  • Vicinia
    Vicinia
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    I'm really sorry this happened to you.

    They can absolutely give you your character back, but they choose not to. How do I know this? I have deleted a character and had them brought back in their entirety. I wasn't even subbed or regularly playing at the time.

    This is a case of they don't give a damn and this is pretty disturbing.
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    Yormula wrote: »
    starkerealm wrote: »
    This suggests there was an underlying corruption to your account data from before you first contacted support.

    ...The issue he explained was that when you start changing existing achievements, you risk of database corruption...

    ...Realistically, the only option to salvage your character would, probably, be to have a developer (an actual developer, not a CS rep) hand configure a custom template for you, for that character...
    I do not dispute that there might have been valid causes that made the problem unavoidable. Neither do I dispute that the character (or, hell, whole account) might not be realistically salvageable at this point.

    Process management, however... There are at least 4 ways to approach the situation that would not have lead to where I am now.

    1. In an ideal world - not have the underlying technical issue. Nothing is perfect, though, so scratch that.

    "If the problem didn't exist, a solution wouldn't be necessary." Which, yeah, that's technically true.
    Yormula wrote: »
    2. Making a backup before any intervention. It could be technically not possible, yet the implications of this sub-scenario are frightening.

    Backups do exist. I'm certain of that. However, it's entirely possible that restoring from a backup is not an option for a CS rep. There's also a related issue where it's likely that, by now, even the oldest backups of your account are already corrupted.

    With the millions of accounts, and close to a million active players, it seems unlikely to me that they retain extensive iterative backups going back years.

    There's also a problem. If you're restoring a pre-corruption backup, that would probably roll your entire account back. If the corruption occurred as the result of an achievement breaking in 2020, you're talking about potentially being reverted to pre-pandemic version of your account.

    If the undetected corruption that led to this issue dates back further, it's possible the data was corrupted as far back as Q4 2018 (as Q1 2019 saw the move away from trifecta achievements being tied to the billboard rewards), meaning you'd lose two and a half years of character advancement if they had the capability to load back that far. (Granted, that would probably be preferable to what you've experienced, but still.)

    That's part of why I suspect that restoring an account from a backup is something that the rank and file CS reps do not have the authority to do. Rolling someone's account back would have significant exploit risks (with item duping), but more significantly, would be incredibly destructive to the account.

    I'm not aware of any cases where Customer Support rolled back an account (though it's entirely possible that this is a routine solution which simply isn't public, because no one's wanted to get into that discussion.
    Yormula wrote: »
    3. Admitting an impasse. At day 1, or week 1, or, hell, even month 1. "We cannot do that, these are the options that we could do". Mistakes happen, it's the readiness to face them and try to fix them that matters. Mind you, if your assumption is correct, fixing would involve installing an additional failsafe that would at least prevent character burns for other players in similar future cases.

    So, two things:

    I might have been unclear; when I was speculating about a failsafe, I meant some kind of data integrity check at login which (ideally) prevents logging into a corrupted character or account. I don't know that a system like that exists in ESO.

    I didn't mean codding a new failsafe to prevent this. And there is a point where it's possible the original data corruption is an extremely rare event.

    I don't know, but I suspect that the rep who logged in on your account was seriously breaking the rules in an attempt to help. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they're no longer with the company as a result. (Of course it could have been the same one that transferred leadership of one of my guilds to a complete rando, that took weeks to sort out.)

    It sounds like the, "we can provide a limited template," is probably the best they're allowed to do, though at this point, I suspect your entire account may be derped up, and it may be simpler to have them clone your account and nuke the original. (Again I don't know.)

    I suspect the looping is just bureaucracy at its finest with a succession of people going, "I dunno, let's make it someone else's problem."
    Yormula wrote: »
    4. Cutting costs. Banning the whole account for "ToS violation" that "cannot be disclosed" immediately after the incident, followed by a forum ban. Wouldn't make me happy, obviously, but at least would show integrity in pursuing efficiency in the business-model.

    This here, on the other hand - and we're getting back to my original point - is just plain inefficiency. It hurts the players, it hurts the company, it hurts the game. Lose-lose.

    Yeah, it's a messy situation. I am sympathetic. It's not 7 years old, but I had a login glitch in Outriders recently that temporarily nuked my account. I logged in to the forced character creation menu, and on clearing through that found all my characters were gone. Now, the account partially recovered, but my beta era Pyromancer is gone (replaced by the level 1 character I rolled up to get to the menu), and one of my low level Devastators is gone. Customer support hasn't screwed me over yet, but the Outriders subreddit did decide to shadowban me rather than letting me put feelers out to see if this is widespread with the most recent patch or a one off.
  • Lauranae
    Lauranae
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    Unfortunatly this kind of problem is not new. In april 2014, a lot players lost bank slots, bank items, skills points and achievements. I remember because i was one of those. And the terrible answer we get at this time made me leave the game.

    Anyone who has been impacted by this issue can continue to play. Character rollbacks will not be needed (nor is it possible).
    Jessica Folsom
    Senior Community Manager (English) - The Elder Scrolls Online

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/77461/missing-bank-items-bank-slots-amp-skill-points/p1

    its sad that knowing this happened they did not put in place some kind of security

    Edited by Lauranae on June 20, 2021 11:24PM
    My most recent characters
    AD - Chjara NB
    -
  • ectoplasmicninja
    ectoplasmicninja
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    Lauranae wrote: »
    Unfortunatly this kind of problem is not new. In april 2014, a lot players lost bank slots, bank items, skills points and achievements. I remember because i was one of those. And the terrible answer we get at this time made me leave the game.

    Anyone who has been impacted by this issue can continue to play. Character rollbacks will not be needed (nor is it possible).
    Jessica Folsom
    Senior Community Manager (English) - The Elder Scrolls Online

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/77461/missing-bank-items-bank-slots-amp-skill-points/p1

    its sad that knowing this happened they did not put in place some kind of security

    It is sad that problems like this are still happening, but her answer in the context of the thread is fine. People were asking if they should stop playing their affected characters or if ZOS would need to do a server rollback, and that was her reply - no, you can keep playing, we can fix this problem without having to do a rollback, and we can't do a rollback anyway.

    Whether that statement turned out to be entirely correct is another story, and who knows why a rollback wasn't possible. But that thread was a wild ride, it looks like launch was extremely rough. I've only been playing since 2017 so I wasn't here pre One Tamriel.
    PC NA, CP2200+. Character creation is the true endgame.
  • Alurria
    Alurria
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    Well here's hoping Monday brings a better answer.
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