We need to talk about ESO's difficulty level

MirandaSharp · June 2021

Too many are asking ZOS to reinvent the wheel or something. All needed is a difficulty setting to nerf our character so that overland content feels more difficult. The content is great and there's more than enough of it to experience in the game. No need for any vet-servers or uber loot or any extra rewards etc.. The reward is simply to be able to enjoy the quests again, like we all did when we first started.

SilverBride · June 2021

Iccotak wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I never mentioned overland zone set drops and neither did they. They requested that the story quest bosses be veteran level, be repeatable, and drop loot appropriate for their difficulty.

That is what this is really about.

Show me that quote then

This is the thread:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/549560/harder-main-story-bosses/p1

And this is the quote:

Iccotak wrote: »

Overall the point being is that this is a story boss and not a dungeon or trial, also the focus of this post is on the challenge and not monetary reward.
(EDIT#2: But maybe a mythic item tied to a specific Story Boss would be cool)

Iccotak · June 2021

Iccotak wrote: »

Overall the point being is that this is a story boss and not a dungeon or trial, also the focus of this post is on the challenge and not monetary reward.
(EDIT#2: But maybe a mythic item tied to a specific Story Boss would be cool)

@SilverBride

#1: In that quote I said its a Story Boss and should NOT be on par with a Vet Dungeon or Vet Trial
#2: That was a hard maybe about the Mythic - that even I was on the fence about. it was a throw-away idea at most

You are putting Way too much stock in that. I think it'd be perfectly fine if a Vet Story Boss just dropped purple zone gear - that's fine, and it's not going to hurt any meta.

EDIT: To reiterate what I just said

Iccotak wrote: »

The hope of the idea is that there was a bit of something for everyone and did not solely satisfy just ONE type of player. (like me who just wanted a harder boss fight) I proposed an idea that was basically designed like the rest of the game - big woop - but it certainly was not on par with Trials or even the hardest of DLC dungeons.
EDIT: also I definitely was not seeking some sneaky way to get Vet Dungeon or Vet Trial gear -- what nonsense.

Iccotak · June 2021

MirandaSharp wrote: »

Too many are asking ZOS to reinvent the wheel or something. All needed is a difficulty setting to nerf our character so that overland content feels more difficult. The content is great and there's more than enough of it to experience in the game. No need for any vet-servers or uber loot or any extra rewards etc.. The reward is simply to be able to enjoy the quests again, like we all did when we first started.

If nerfing worked then we'd just run naked - it's the mechanics that would have to be adjusted in a separate instance to be engaging.

Agenericname · June 2021

ixthUA wrote: »

I wonder how many people would do veteran dungeons if they didn't drop monster helmets? I certainly would not. Vet dungeon is just a temporary instance that ceases to exist as soon as everyone leaves it.
Devs could add extra instances of zones, but they would be deserted by majority, so what's the point of keeping them? Even those who want them will probabply feel lonely playing in ghost towns.

I do, every day. I have every monster set in the game. Ive deconstructed hundreds (not exaggerating) of Zaan's helms.

I run the random vet just about everyday. The days that I do not isnt because I chose to run a random normal, its because I did something else entirely. Everyday my guilds and groups are filled with "6 key pledge" requests. I rarely have a long wait, even when I queue random as DD. Vet dungeons are hardly a ghost town.

SilverBride · June 2021

Iccotak wrote: »

That was a hard maybe about the Mythic - that even I was on the fence about. it was a throw-away idea at most

You are putting Way too much stock in that.

I don't believe I am.

Iccotak · June 2021

(edit: to be clear)
Before

SilverBride wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

That was a hard maybe about the Mythic - that even I was on the fence about. it was a throw-away idea at most

You are putting Way too much stock in that.

I don't think I am. Not one bit.

After

SilverBride wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

That was a hard maybe about the Mythic - that even I was on the fence about. it was a throw-away idea at most

You are putting Way too much stock in that.

I don't believe I am.

Ok, don't know what else to tell ya then. This is not the "Gotcha" moment you apparently think it is

It was a throw-away, brainstorm, idea that I myself am perfectly fine with tossing. At this point, I think that purple instead of blue drops are perfectly acceptable and there doesn't need more than that.

Believe it or not - I was actually thinking of what others MIGHT like included with a harder story boss encounter. To incentivize participation - because not everyone plays an activity for the exact same reasons

Thechuckage · June 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

...Crag failed because it was GROUPED OVERLAND. Group quests just dont work outside of dungeons. And, once again, no one is asking for that same failed concept. If there was ever a horse to stop beating, its that one.

And veteran overland zones failed because they either required taking a lot of time and often dying, or grouping to avoid that. They were frustrating and a roadblock to the average player completing the content.

There is not enough support to justify bringing back something that failed the first time, optional or not.

I disagree with your first assertion.

And you have no basis for your second. No a forum poll with a few respondents is hardly equal to the entire game population. Which is somewhere in the millions according to Zos. Even the most crooked politicians wouldn't try to hold up those numbers as representative.

Lauranae · June 2021

Coming back to the Eso's difficulty level, and after reading some posts and re memoring my own playtime on ESO, i think personally that we will always have a ditch between players, due to the need of high challenge for some, and what i would call quiet mode for others.

i understand both of them. I have been one of those playing 7 days raiding, asking people to be ready for challenge, having food gear and skills up to it, and always asking for more from players and from the game. A new instance had to be over the challenge of the last one, and if not, the forums were reflectign this need.
it was long ago for me but this was the same as today for those eating challenges as they would it a pizza. it was about 15 years ago in WoW, played it 2004 - 2010.

I am now a quiet one gran'Ma narrowing the 70. I still love challenge, but not the kind of challenge i expected before.
I love to try to solo things that would be done usually in group, and if i succeed, i am proud of it. If i fail, i will go back to learn what i do wrong. Be it for a world boss, or instances. Gran'ma (me)loves that for sur, but after some fights i am exhausted. i need quiet things, and running overland is fantastic.

But int hose cases i encountered a problem : gated skills. Gated instances.
I will try to explain and to not make a too large post, so i will take aside the guilds and all what they can give to a new player, as well as websites and their builds.

Lets take the case of a player who never played a game, and have to discover all.
- From lv 1 to 14 you are stuck with some skills, and this gives you the time to learn them. Great, you are building your rotation, and discovering what they can do. And its going greatly for this new player
- from lv 15 to 50 (to do it shortly) you will have to learn more and more skills, a lot of skills, and slowly you will replace some by new ones, but something is disburbing. Those skills seems great but i lost my rotation. Something is wrong. You learn that some skills are good for starting, some are execute, some are aoe, some are dot and more.
- You are trying to participate in instances, but something is wrong.

The problem is that you spend 50 levels to do what you felt good, and never had to play an instance with people of your level.
There was always a high cp bunched mad runner who would kill everything so fast that you could not even do it, then yelling at you to learn to play
but eh what! i am 50 no ? i did those 50 levels and enjoyed them no ?
no mate you are bad at it, you should start again.
What ? yes i am bad at it, and i am willing to learn.

But no one have the time or the will to share knowledge as it should be done.
Time is precious for all of us. And this is normal.

SilverBride · June 2021

Thechuckage wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

...Crag failed because it was GROUPED OVERLAND. Group quests just dont work outside of dungeons. And, once again, no one is asking for that same failed concept. If there was ever a horse to stop beating, its that one.

And veteran overland zones failed because they either required taking a lot of time and often dying, or grouping to avoid that. They were frustrating and a roadblock to the average player completing the content.

There is not enough support to justify bringing back something that failed the first time, optional or not.

I disagree with your first assertion.

And you have no basis for your second. No a forum poll with a few respondents is hardly equal to the entire game population. Which is somewhere in the millions according to Zos. Even the most crooked politicians wouldn't try to hold up those numbers as representative.

True the numbers are a rough estimation, but that goes both ways.

But you can't dispute that veteran overland was removed with One Tamriel. Why would they bring it back now?

Thechuckage · June 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

...Crag failed because it was GROUPED OVERLAND. Group quests just dont work outside of dungeons. And, once again, no one is asking for that same failed concept. If there was ever a horse to stop beating, its that one.

And veteran overland zones failed because they either required taking a lot of time and often dying, or grouping to avoid that. They were frustrating and a roadblock to the average player completing the content.

There is not enough support to justify bringing back something that failed the first time, optional or not.

I disagree with your first assertion.

And you have no basis for your second. No a forum poll with a few respondents is hardly equal to the entire game population. Which is somewhere in the millions according to Zos. Even the most crooked politicians wouldn't try to hold up those numbers as representative.

True the numbers are a rough estimation, but that goes both ways.

But you can't dispute that veteran overland was removed with One Tamriel. Why would they bring it back now?

Along with Vet (player ) levels. There are multiple variables at play here and can hardly be boiled down to just "Vet overland was bad" CP, new sets, new base stats for players are just a few.

Who has asked for old Crag back? No one. Many of the detractors seem it has to be current or ol Crag only. That is untrue and a false dichotomy.

SilverBride · June 2021

Thechuckage wrote: »

Who has asked for old Crag back? No one. Many of the detractors seem it has to be current or ol Crag only. That is untrue and a false dichotomy.

I never once said anyone did.

amm7sb14_ESO · June 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

That was a hard maybe about the Mythic - that even I was on the fence about. it was a throw-away idea at most

You are putting Way too much stock in that.

I don't believe I am.

Translation: You created a thought in your head to fuel your bad faith argument, and you're not letting go of it no matter how much it's disproven.

Iccotak · June 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

...Crag failed because it was GROUPED OVERLAND. Group quests just dont work outside of dungeons. And, once again, no one is asking for that same failed concept. If there was ever a horse to stop beating, its that one.

And veteran overland zones failed because they either required taking a lot of time and often dying, or grouping to avoid that. They were frustrating and a roadblock to the average player completing the content.

There is not enough support to justify bringing back something that failed the first time, optional or not.

I disagree with your first assertion.

And you have no basis for your second. No a forum poll with a few respondents is hardly equal to the entire game population. Which is somewhere in the millions according to Zos. Even the most crooked politicians wouldn't try to hold up those numbers as representative.

True the numbers are a rough estimation, but that goes both ways.

But you can't dispute that veteran overland was removed with One Tamriel. Why would they bring it back now?

No one arguing for the idea has made claims about the number of supporters; we've said we would like to see a change and frequently see others who would like to see a change as well.

The "Veteran Overland" that you talk about is very different from what others have proposed.

For the most part, people are not asking for another forced grouping of Craglorn - or for things to go back to "Leveled Zones" where the player base was split 9 separate ways with Veteran Levels that were very unbalanced.

What people have asked is for one separate instance that has enemies with adjusted mechanics, speed, and react time as well as "Tougher NPCs" who are actually tougher. They asked for for a separate instance where there is some level of risk when exploring a zone for a solo player that has above beginner level skills.

Because right now all the zones are designed with a "Very New Beginner" in mind - or in classic TES terms; "Novice".

It would be great if there was a separate difficulty setting like "Expert" aside from "Novice"

MirandaSharp · June 2021

Iccotak wrote: »

If nerfing worked then we'd just run naked - it's the mechanics that would have to be adjusted in a separate instance to be engaging.

Isn't that what we already do? -What experienced player dons his trial gear when he goes overland questing? Running naked doesn't solve the problem as we can still just press a skill and they all die. Only way to enjoy it now is to create a new level 1 character, run naked through the quest and bare knuckle the enemies to death. Actually I think a lot of experienced players wanting to enjoy the overland questing in new chapters do exactly that.

No need for any new mechanics. Just like soloing vet dungeons(same mechanics) are more challenging than soloing those on normal, which proves that the concept works! Just make a difficulty setting to let us nerf our character enough to make overland questing fun again, please..

Psiion · June 2021

Greetings all,

After review it seems this thread is mostly consisting of non-constructive Baiting and as such, we have closed it down. While we understand everyone has opinions they would like to express, and disagreements are natural, Baiting is against the Forum's Community Rules as stated below:

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