We need to talk about ESO's difficulty level

Mayrael

SilverBride wrote: »

VampReworkFailed wrote: »

Casuals don't keep a game alive, fun fact. They aren't the ones spending money on crown store items or expansions. They play the game for a few hours a week then leave. That's a casual player.

A casual player is not defined by how much they play, but rather how they play. I play from 3 to 5 hours a day on average, not a few hours a week, and I am definitely a casual player. I don't participate in end game content, such as veteran dungeons, trials and arenas, but rather enjoy questing, crafting and housing... that is what makes me a casual player.

I am ESO+, I buy all chapters and I buy crowns... and I am not alone. Many casuals are into housing and roleplaying and are spending a lot of money in the Crown store. What are hard core end game players buying from the Crown store?

End game players aren't gearing up to play overland. They are running veteran content for their challenges.

Yeah, and I'm in 5 guilds full of casuals and veterans who play PvP, do trials, vet dungs, etc. etc. and they all spend just as many crowns if not more (many of them have houses with trial dummies, mundus stones - a set of these alone is 52000 crowns rather more than most casuals will spend for all the time they spend with ESO, generally things that help optimize the build, most of them have amazing houses, they also do crafting) than casual players and most of these veterans would really appreciate being able to play the DLC story lines and chapters with enjoyment rather than being bored and yawning.

Besides no one wants to take anything away from casual players, we just want options for veterans to keep them playing longer so everyone has fun and not just some of us, without vets all the stuff behind harder content will be locked to casuals to - you need them to get those skins, personalities etc. etc.

It seems to me that those who don't want the optional harder gameplay are actually afraid that the status quo will change, that it will turn out that harder content (but not murderously difficult, just the kind where you have to think at least a little) is more attractive for most players or that higher difficulty will be followed by bigger rewards and they will be excluded.

I don't buy the explanation about the unprofitability, about the majority and minority, about who spends more, etc. etc. This is data that ZOS has access to, not me or you, so using it in an argument is simply an attempt to convince you that you're right on assumptions.

Sarannah

Overland should stay the same as it is now. Not everyone has experience in the game.

Besides: Overland has different difficulty levels. The main quest was made easiest, so players can't get stuck at a point where they cannot progress. While sidequests, usually do have somewhat tougher bosses compared to mainquest bosses.

SilverBride

Mayrael wrote: »

It seems to me that those who don't want the optional harder gameplay are actually afraid that the status quo will change, that it will turn out that harder content (but not murderously difficult, just the kind where you have to think at least a little) is more attractive for most players or that higher difficulty will be followed by bigger rewards and they will be excluded.

It's not that at all. I played beta and when ESO launched. The veteran levels were not fun, nor was being stuck on a quest boss for days at a time, unable to progress. Craglorn was the final straw that drove me and many others away, and I didn't come back until they got rid of that mess with One Tamriel.

They learned what their playerbase wanted, and veteran overland wasn't it. There is a reason they added more casual content like housing and antiquities and now companions. That is what their players want.

SydneyGrey

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

I have played this game since release ...

Well there you go. You've mastered the game, have the best armor, know how to maximize your DPS, and now are upset that you're killing things too easily.
I've been playing for years and I kill things easily now, too. You have to remember what it was like to be new to the game, when you were a noob and it was a struggle just to get through a delve. Not everyone has it super easy.

Iccotak

Red_Feather wrote: »

The only delves I ever had fun doing were the ones in cyrodiil. When there is a chance that something more powerful than me can walk into the room while I'm exploring it, it completely changes the dynamic of the whole thing. It doesn't have to be a pvp thing!

Anyone encounter one of those roaming imperial sewer bosses with the heartbeat? Stuff like that will very much add a sense of danger to the world without being forced on players since they can be avoided! 😯
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Coldharbour_Elite_Guard

I remember in other mmorpgs I played, like guild wars 2 and everquest, there was sometimes a patrolling named enemy that would add to the atmosphere. Just it's presence was enough to feel threatened. The knowledge that you weren't the strongest thing in the room can do that.

I would love if Overland had bosses like that which roamed the landscape. That is more like a group activity BUT it still adds a level of danger and risk to exploring.

If they could make the "Tougher NPC Enemies" have more mechanics that'd be nice. Have one leading a trash mob to spice things up
like I mentioned earlier

general mobs being trash makes sense - BUT there needs to be more "Bigger NPCs" who have more and do more.

Players have access to a wide array of abilities that they can execute in fast succession. Now there are companions who have access to a variety of abilities. It stands to reason that there has to be some "Tougher Enemies" - within a group of trash mobs - who have more abilities and do more damage.
I would say that the new enemy type "Ruinarchs" are getting there - they use more attacks and are faster when using them.

Some of the "Mini-Boss" encounters in the story would have been great additions to general overland content.

Like the witch Nathari from the Markarth DLC story. I think she would be a good base for a "Grand Necromancer" enemy type that you could run into every once in a while.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Nathari

Or even the Delve Boss in a delve in Blackwood, an Argonian Necromancer - these "Bosses" would actually be great for Bigger NPCs around the map.

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

I have played this game since release ...

Well there you go. You've mastered the game, have the best armor, know how to maximize your DPS, and now are upset that you're killing things too easily.
I've been playing for years and I kill things easily now, too. You have to remember what it was like to be new to the game, when you were a noob and it was a struggle just to get through a delve. Not everyone has it super easy.

Yes, it can be challenging for new players who are learning the ropes. We have all acknowledged this.

Other people would like a separate instance of Overland / Story that does not cater only to "Beginners" and actually has some challenge for those with experience. To have combat gameplay that engages our braincells.

(Keep in mind that there are new players who find it boring as well.)

Mayrael

SilverBride wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

It seems to me that those who don't want the optional harder gameplay are actually afraid that the status quo will change, that it will turn out that harder content (but not murderously difficult, just the kind where you have to think at least a little) is more attractive for most players or that higher difficulty will be followed by bigger rewards and they will be excluded.

It's not that at all. I played beta and when ESO launched. The veteran levels were not fun, nor was being stuck on a quest boss for days at a time, unable to progress. Craglorn was the final straw that drove me and many others away, and I didn't come back until they got rid of that mess with One Tamriel.

They learned what their playerbase wanted, and veteran overland wasn't it. There is a reason they added more casual content like housing and antiquities and now companions. That is what their players want.

I too have been playing since launch and TBH the days before One Tamriel are the ones I personally remember best when it comes to PvE. I loved the quests and the feeling when I managed to make my character stronger. That's what attracted me to ESO, the ability to freely build characters to fit my play style. To be honest my first encounter with vet zones was a shock, but I quickly recovered and loved vet zones for the fact that they made me think and improve my character, it gave me a great sense of satisfaction, it had that RPG vibe that ESO lacks now, which frankly has become more of a mobile game where you just have to log in everyday.

And yes it's true that you still need to keep in mind the new players, no one denies that, but the optional (here I leave room for dialogue, so that the solution is as comfortable as possible for both sides) more difficult content would not bother them in any way.

zelaminator

VampReworkFailed wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Threads like these are getting old,people just need to accept that the game wont have any harder overland content any time soon if ever.
The normal casual player is happy with the overland stuff and how it is designed,I mean I hear pretty often complains from people that some stuff is too difficult for them, mind my wild guessing but I would say 80% of the people who play eso can not even defeat one world boss on their own.

Harder overland content would make more casuals to leave the game from what Zos would not benefit at all.
And I don't think Zos would benefit either from reworking or making a harder veteran overland instance from old content, if that would ever happen it would be from the new expansions.

So because 80% of the populace cannot beat a Group Content activity on their own we should therefore stop asking ZOS to make the single player content more engaging in combat gameplay.....

yup, because 80% of people can't defeat a world boss by themselves by this person's logic that means the majority of the entire game should be baby-easy.

Even though this is an 18+ game and quite frankly if you have a hard time with overland you shouldn't be playing this video game.

it's literally the classic thing of 'oh well, I play the game to just relax and turn my brain off. So... therefore you wanting challenge doesn't matter." bruh if u wanted to turn ur brain off go watch TV.

Tired of these people thinking the game should be made easier to cater towards *their* needs when having actual challenge and rewards are what RPGs are about.

Imagine an ESO where quests actually gave you good loot.....

Yeah, I can see that I must have been wrong.. For over 20 years I thought that RPG, Role Playing Game, meant that I could role play a character.. Really glad that we got that straightened out.. RPG really means that a game HAVE to meet a certain level of challenge to be engagin.. Glad that someone got me corrected there.. /Sarcasm

And please, don't be that person who sits and dictate who should be allowed to play the game.. as if an age gate had anything to do with difficulty, as if you should be denied this game, just because you find overland challenging..

Supertonicbaker

I would absolutely love a more challenging game to where it feels like Mannimarco can actually do me harm and not die before he even opens the first portal. Or, you know, a Daedric Prince like Molag Bal not feeling like he has a glass jaw making hos threats insanely hollow. That’s why I’m waiting for the next possible MMO like game to come out that is willing to make it a challenging world. Expecting Zos to change this game toward anything that anyone would like is a joke in and of itself (Green CP tree vs Red/Blue changes anyone?).

As is, the game is what it is. Is it mindless? Sure. But I always start this game with the mentality that my character is secretly a Daedra/Aedra who’s lost his/her memory, but not their power. It makes it funny when a quest boss is saying something like “I will end your…!” and they fall over as I casually walk up and take the stone the quest-giver needed me to get. I didn’t choose to be a force of nature, I was always this way.

amm7sb14_ESO

SilverBride wrote: »

VampReworkFailed wrote: »

Casuals don't keep a game alive, fun fact. They aren't the ones spending money on crown store items or expansions. They play the game for a few hours a week then leave. That's a casual player.

A casual player is not defined by how much they play, but rather how they play. I play from 3 to 5 hours a day on average, not a few hours a week, and I am definitely a casual player. I don't participate in end game content, such as veteran dungeons, trials and arenas, but rather enjoy questing, crafting and housing... that is what makes me a casual player.

I am ESO+, I buy all chapters and I buy crowns... and I am not alone. Many casuals are into housing and roleplaying and are spending a lot of money in the Crown store. What are hard core end game players buying from the Crown store?

End game players aren't gearing up to play overland. They are running veteran content for their challenges.

Well, I am buying motifs / style pages, mounts, character slots, outfit slots, skins, crown crates...

I buy quite a few things from the crown store as an end game player...

Strider__Roshin

I think it's great for insomnia.

zvavi

SilverBride wrote: »

What are hard core end game players buying from the Crown store?

I don't know about others but in the last year I have bought additional 4 trial dummies (up to 6), the well (ultimate regen), zaan armpack, all the 4 dlc's that came out (I don't buy expansions, but it is more stubbornness than anything, I refuse to do so till more fixes come this way). Everyone got their own thing that they like from the crown store. Heck, I am willing to bet that most endgame players are paying ESO+, have ultimate well in their house, and additionally occasionally buy cosmetics, with lots of them being more spendy and buying lots of crown crates.

End game trials is not the only thing we do. We love this game, and we would like to enjoy more aspects of it. For example, a harder difficulty option for the majority of the game that is unavailable to us (can't enjoy too anticlimactic)

Luke_Flamesword

I hate ESO difficulty balance - most content is too easy to engage or too hard for relax - for example: I almost sleep when make normal Maelstorm Arena, but in vet (because of some stupid mechanics) it was too stressfull. I had more fun doing last evening Wayrest Sewers dungeon solo on normal - it was still easy enough to relax but at least it was some fun with Bosses.

For me obvious is fact that higher overland difficulty for all player never will happen in ESO, so I don't understand why with every topic about difficulty there is so much drama about how much some players don't want it. We know it and get it and noone (or almost noone) wants to take from you easy overland. Why are you so egoistic about your approach. There are many players who wants easy and hard difficulty, so why only one of this group should be privileged? For god's sake we talk even about very, very easy solutions to implement like special buff or debuff for players working like Battle Spirit in Cyrodiil, so it's easy and almost ready to implement solution. I'm so desperate in needing any engagment in overland that I can take this debuff without any rewards for this - just for fun, when I make quests.

And no, I won't go naked, fighting monsters with bare hands, because using gear and other mechanics is core part of game and fun part of it. Also I make harder content every now and then, so I won't change CP or food every 20 minutes when I want to do something different.

I see only two viable solutions. Overland stays as it was, and there are optional debuffs to swich on/off (maybe even couple levels of difficulty) or overland is much harder with optional buff for all these who feels to weak (with active buff it will be the same expierence as today). I prefer second solution to encourage people to learn mechanics and prepare for group content, with of course very easy accessible buff for all people who don't want it. It don't take too much time from devs and don't hurt anyone, so don't see reason why it shouldn't be done.

It would be nice if we can talk in topics like this about possible solutions (which will satisfy everyone) and not about "I don't wanna, I will left the game". Also try to see that every topic about difficulty is created by different people. There so many topics because is high demand for this, so pls don't try do shout down us and don't manipulate telling that only small amount of people want it...

francesinhalover

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

The overland and quest experience in this game is a joke. It's incredibly easy to the point of ridicule. You don't even need to have any gear equipped or any skills slotted and enemies are totally trivial. Where are the stakes? The sense of danger? I've been playing Classic Burning Crusade recently and it feels like a god damn survival game compared to ESO. Is it "dark souls" hard? Of course not, but at least the threat of actually taking damage and getting killed is there.

I have heard many people use the argument "well it has to be easy to keep the barrier of entry low for new/casual players".

No it doesn't. There are plenty of other MMO's with casual audiences who set the bar higher. Guild Wars 2 for example is one of the most casual MMO's out there and the open world can still kill you and the main quest will still wreck you if you don't pay attention.

I have played this game since release and I do remember clearly that Veteran enemies used to offer a bit of a challenge. But now? I don't even want to do the story quests anymore. It's so boring and even though it's easy it feels like a slog.

The devs have taken "play how you want/just be yourself" mentally to a totally unnecessary extreme.

Id love challenge if the game didn't have 1000+ quests to do.
I just wana chill and do quests. Has for challenge if i go full dps build i can die even on stormhaven.
Idk maybe use random sets for pve if you want challenge. like going full electricity set on stam sorce and use
https://eso-sets.com/set/storm-knights-plate

Like people use endgame builds on a game mode that is meant to be played using any sets with any quality.

GW2? I legit quit that game over the pve, I was like lv 15 and i kept dying and dying. screw that game. Git gud my ass , at least on eso i can do anything at any lvl if i at least have a healing ability

Saieden

If you want overland quests to be harder, don't do them in dungeon/trial CP160 gear. Craft some low level gear, ignore sets and/or take off your warfare/fitness slottables. Literally takes 5 minutes, so there's no reason to complain about monsters dying in 5 seconds and being unkillable.

LalMirchi

Please someone, have a thought for this poor dead horse. Bludgeoned to death every week

Everstorm

Saieden wrote: »

If you want overland quests to be harder, don't do them in dungeon/trial CP160 gear. Craft some low level gear, ignore sets and/or take off your warfare/fitness slottables. Literally takes 5 minutes, so there's no reason to complain about monsters dying in 5 seconds and being unkillable.

If you want trials and dungeons to be harder there is no need for veteran difficulty. Just take of your gear, unslot your CP and do normals....
Sounds silly, eh?

CP5

Saieden wrote: »

If you want overland quests to be harder, don't do them in dungeon/trial CP160 gear. Craft some low level gear, ignore sets and/or take off your warfare/fitness slottables. Literally takes 5 minutes, so there's no reason to complain about monsters dying in 5 seconds and being unkillable.

That fails for the same reason old gold/silver/craglorn failed. Just health/damage buffing enemies (by either strengthening them or weakening the player) doesn't make fights more engaging. That post I made writing up what some of the enemies do, the vast majority of overland mobs are designed to waste their own time. Lengthening those fights doesn't change that, and when I'm leveling new characters I'm just as quick to stack and burn mobs down because knowledge of how to play the game is a vastly stronger tool than gear or cp. As much as I would love to experience eso for the first time again I can't, I just wish there would at least be some overland that respected the fact that I learned how to play.

BlueRaven

Everstorm wrote: »

Saieden wrote: »

If you want overland quests to be harder, don't do them in dungeon/trial CP160 gear. Craft some low level gear, ignore sets and/or take off your warfare/fitness slottables. Literally takes 5 minutes, so there's no reason to complain about monsters dying in 5 seconds and being unkillable.

If you want trials and dungeons to be harder there is no need for veteran difficulty. Just take of your gear, unslot your CP and do normals....
Sounds silly, eh?

But limiting you gear would make the trials harder…

If you are asking for something more then npcs hitting harder or having more hp, I would like to remind you that zos is limited to a thing called a budget. A budget limits what they can buy, how many people they can hire, and the time they have to do all of this.

Now let’s pretend for a second they do decide come out with a “vet server” because some random person decided to “gift” them with millions of dollars so this can be feasible (sarcasm).

At what level of difficulty is the “vet server” aimed at? Yours? Someone who is way better at the game? Someone who is better then average but still well below you?

Two of those options are no good. So what now? A “vet vet server”, a “semi vet server”?

And what if that one does not hit the difficulty sweet spot for you.

A “semi vet vet server”? A “semi vet semi server”..,?

Saieden

Everstorm wrote: »

Saieden wrote: »

If you want overland quests to be harder, don't do them in dungeon/trial CP160 gear. Craft some low level gear, ignore sets and/or take off your warfare/fitness slottables. Literally takes 5 minutes, so there's no reason to complain about monsters dying in 5 seconds and being unkillable.

If you want trials and dungeons to be harder there is no need for veteran difficulty. Just take of your gear, unslot your CP and do normals....
Sounds silly, eh?

You can do overland content without gear/CP... if you want.
You can do normal dungeons and trials without gear/CP... if you want.
You can do veteran dungeons and trials without gear/CP... if you want.
You can do [insert any content here] without gear/CP... if you want.

That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

CP5

BlueRaven wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Saieden wrote: »

If you want overland quests to be harder, don't do them in dungeon/trial CP160 gear. Craft some low level gear, ignore sets and/or take off your warfare/fitness slottables. Literally takes 5 minutes, so there's no reason to complain about monsters dying in 5 seconds and being unkillable.

If you want trials and dungeons to be harder there is no need for veteran difficulty. Just take of your gear, unslot your CP and do normals....
Sounds silly, eh?

But limiting you gear would make the trials harder…

If you are asking for something more then npcs hitting harder or having more hp, I would like to remind you that zos is limited to a thing called a budget. A budget limits what they can buy, how many people they can hire, and the time they have to do all of this.

Now let’s pretend for a second they do decide come out with a “vet server” because some random person decided to “gift” them with millions of dollars so this can be feasible (sarcasm).

At what level of difficulty is the “vet server” aimed at? Yours? Someone who is way better at the game? Someone who is better then average but still well below you?

Two of those options are no good. So what now? A “vet vet server”, a “semi vet server”?

And what if that one does not hit the difficulty sweet spot for you.

A “semi vet vet server”? A “semi vet semi server”..,?

Not server, instance. You know, the tech they already have and used to differentiate between bronze/silver/gold? Just make 2 versions, vet and normal, and have mobs in the vet instance do things like, having a shorter cooldown on their abilities, being durable enough to cast their abilities, having actual roles so that different mobs act differently. You guys are acting like 1.) evil vets want to take away your overland (when we instead want it to be an option added on), and 2.) that zos is some small indie company that can't use stuff they already have to make content they've already made more engaging.

MirandaSharp

Just please let me nerf my character with a difficulty setting, by for example cutting all stats in half or something. No need to make complicated changes to the game itself, just gimp my character to be weak enough that I actually have to hit more than once to kill something... Overland questing is so easy that even naked and no CP it's stupidly easy. Just press one skill and the big bad boss dies... The worst thing is there is so much great content in this game with amazing stories and lore, but I just can't enjoy it on a levelled character. Only way is to start a new character and basically run naked at level 1 and bare knuckle the enemies...

MirandaSharp

Saieden wrote: »

If you want overland quests to be harder, don't do them in dungeon/trial CP160 gear. Craft some low level gear, ignore sets and/or take off your warfare/fitness slottables. Literally takes 5 minutes, so there's no reason to complain about monsters dying in 5 seconds and being unkillable.

Ok, I'm naked and no CP then press a skill and they all die. How did that help anyone? Don't you think people have already tried this by using dressing room etc?

Alurria

CP5 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Saieden wrote: »

If you want overland quests to be harder, don't do them in dungeon/trial CP160 gear. Craft some low level gear, ignore sets and/or take off your warfare/fitness slottables. Literally takes 5 minutes, so there's no reason to complain about monsters dying in 5 seconds and being unkillable.

If you want trials and dungeons to be harder there is no need for veteran difficulty. Just take of your gear, unslot your CP and do normals....
Sounds silly, eh?

But limiting you gear would make the trials harder…

If you are asking for something more then npcs hitting harder or having more hp, I would like to remind you that zos is limited to a thing called a budget. A budget limits what they can buy, how many people they can hire, and the time they have to do all of this.

Now let’s pretend for a second they do decide come out with a “vet server” because some random person decided to “gift” them with millions of dollars so this can be feasible (sarcasm).

At what level of difficulty is the “vet server” aimed at? Yours? Someone who is way better at the game? Someone who is better then average but still well below you?

Two of those options are no good. So what now? A “vet vet server”, a “semi vet server”?

And what if that one does not hit the difficulty sweet spot for you.

A “semi vet vet server”? A “semi vet semi server”..,?

Not server, instance. You know, the tech they already have and used to differentiate between bronze/silver/gold? Just make 2 versions, vet and normal, and have mobs in the vet instance do things like, having a shorter cooldown on their abilities, being durable enough to cast their abilities, having actual roles so that different mobs act differently. You guys are acting like 1.) evil vets want to take away your overland (when we instead want it to be an option added on), and 2.) that zos is some small indie company that can't use stuff they already have to make content they've already made more engaging.

Will this vet instance involve better rewards?

eKsDee

SilverBride wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Nobody asking for this feature is being unreasonable

There is nothing reasonable about expecting ZoS to spend the time and resources to completely change ESO into something it isn't to please a few players.

And yet you're fine with the game going from a more challenging experience where faction mattered, that reflected the fact that the ESO dev team was originally lead by some peeps from DAoC and their vision was for ESO to follow in DAoC's footsteps as an AvAvA PvP game, to a casual experience where PvP is almost completely neglected, instanced PvE has been put on the backburner with little to no true innovation in years (one shot mechanics are not innovation), and overland PvE that literally puts you to sleep is the norm? That's fine, but merely bumping the difficulty up a tad so overland PvE is no longer the boring, monotonous slog that is now is supposedly the worst thing in the world?

At this point, I've just accepted that ESO will never return to what it once was, and I've just sat on the sidelines and read these threads while laughing at the ridiculous counterpoints -- that are repeated ad nauseum, by the way, while you criticise those like the OP for constantly repeating the same topic -- people are bringing against fair suggestions like a basic opt-in difficulty increase that scales the player. But I had to comment at the sheer hypocrisy that's being displayed here.

No, you don't get to claim "there is nothing reasonable about expecting ZoS to spend the time and resources to completely change ESO into something it isn't to please a few players." when your very gameplay experience was caused by the very thing you're critiquing. The original design goal of ESO was to mirror DAoC, numerous DAoC developers moved to ESO early on, and one of them even became ESO's very own game director, Matt Firor. This much is evident when you consider the fact that PvP was the end game content of ESO on launch, dungeons were nothing like they were now, and trials didn't even exist. ESO as you know it today is literally a byproduct of ZoS changing the game into something it wasn't.

Nobody is asking for something of that scale to happen again, but you know that of course, it's been repeated to you so many times that you have to know about it at this point. Which leads me to my question to you, why is it that you're so against something as fair as a basic opt-in difficulty increase that scales the player? Most of the resources are already there in the game -- Battle Spirit already does 2/3's of what this new difficulty increase would need to do, they just need to tie the values to some flag on the player that states what difficulty they want to play with -- and it won't affect you in the slightest, so why are you so against something as fair as this? The only reason I can think of is you somehow don't want players to get something like this out of some anti-elitist spite, but I surely hope that's not it. So, why is it?

BlueRaven

CP5 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Saieden wrote: »

If you want overland quests to be harder, don't do them in dungeon/trial CP160 gear. Craft some low level gear, ignore sets and/or take off your warfare/fitness slottables. Literally takes 5 minutes, so there's no reason to complain about monsters dying in 5 seconds and being unkillable.

If you want trials and dungeons to be harder there is no need for veteran difficulty. Just take of your gear, unslot your CP and do normals....
Sounds silly, eh?

But limiting you gear would make the trials harder…

If you are asking for something more then npcs hitting harder or having more hp, I would like to remind you that zos is limited to a thing called a budget. A budget limits what they can buy, how many people they can hire, and the time they have to do all of this.

Now let’s pretend for a second they do decide come out with a “vet server” because some random person decided to “gift” them with millions of dollars so this can be feasible (sarcasm).

At what level of difficulty is the “vet server” aimed at? Yours? Someone who is way better at the game? Someone who is better then average but still well below you?

Two of those options are no good. So what now? A “vet vet server”, a “semi vet server”?

And what if that one does not hit the difficulty sweet spot for you.

A “semi vet vet server”? A “semi vet semi server”..,?

Not server, instance. You know, the tech they already have and used to differentiate between bronze/silver/gold? Just make 2 versions, vet and normal, and have mobs in the vet instance do things like, having a shorter cooldown on their abilities, being durable enough to cast their abilities, having actual roles so that different mobs act differently. You guys are acting like 1.) evil vets want to take away your overland (when we instead want it to be an option added on), and 2.) that zos is some small indie company that can't use stuff they already have to make content they've already made more engaging.

And they have infinite room to put new instances up on their current servers? You are literally asking them to double the servers storage space, and amount of shards…

And what if they do all of that and the overland is still too easy for you for some reason. What then?

I used to be in multiple trial groups, but they collapsed because of the constant tanking and healing nerfs caused many of the players to leave. (Yes, can you believe it? Making the game harder actually turned away people. Who would have guessed?)
So I have done the Greymoor trial a grand total of one time. And I have no prospects of doing the new Blackwood trial. And that is fine. My guild officer duties take up a lot of time anyway.

Now I could come on to these forums and demand that dungeons and trials to be made easier so I can easily do them solo for the story. (I am paying for four dungeons and a trial every year that are useless to me now.) But I don’t, because I understand not everything in the game needs to be catered to me. People have different interests and skill levels and I leave their “toys” alone.

Taking away the budget from other players is by your example “evil” and that is exactly what people are asking for with these vet servers. The time to do this, the manpower, server costs, all have to be budgeted for. And that means someone else has to lose something for them to get what they want. And even then there is no guarantee that people will use it if the “fit” is not right. (“Hey all, we here at zos spent a lot of money and made vet servers! Too bad they are way too hard for everyone except .001% of the player base. But hey, it only cost a year or two of development. The rest of you can wait that long until new content is released, right? Please note: Since we now have to do two versions of the content from now on, all future content will be much smaller then what we do now.”)

It really seems like people think all zos has to do is press a button and all of this just happens. (“Here is the enemies fight smarter button. Here is the more abilities button. Here is the button that magically comes up with new sounds and dialogue that go with these new abilities. Done!”)

So tell me, what gets cut to pay for this vet server? What teams get reassigned? What you are adding means something else gets taken away. So what is the plan?

Alurria

I particularly love it when they say 'but they already had instance before one tramiel' well guess what those resources have been realocated. That particular partition is gone one to store other aspects of the game. It just reminds me of someone who wants a mcrib sandwich when they are not in season from Mc Donald's. 'well you had them 6 months ago I want one now' really?! Amazing how a couple dozen people on this forum pushing an agenda will claim hundreds of thousands of players want this. They continue to exaggerate how easy the game is while telling the rest of us we are selfish when they are guilty of the same thing. I don't want it because it's not needed. I would rather they fix bugs like the block bug or ranged bug. I would rather they work on making companions AI better or improve the drop rate on leads or any number of things that will improve the game for everyone, NOT a small minority of players who think they are playing a action game as opposed to a STORY game. Role Playing Game not Mortal Combat.

Dagre2

who plays elder scrolls games for difficulty? even FO4 survival wasn't difficult, it was tedious. I enjoyed it quite a bit but it doesn't change that the only thing it did was make everything take longer. cranking the difficulty in either series only made the really early game somewhat difficult if you tried to play the same as on default setting, but once you had a half decent build started it was always overkill.

I don't play TES or FO when i want to scratch my difficulty itch, that's what other games are for, some of which are quite well done.

Abigail

VampReworkFailed wrote: »

Casuals don't keep a game alive, fun fact. They aren't the ones spending money on crown store items or expansions. They play the game for a few hours a week then leave. That's a casual player.

Source, please. What utter meadow muffin.

Dagre2

Alurria wrote: »

I particularly love it when they say 'but they already had instance before one tramiel' well guess what those resources have been realocated. That particular partition is gone one to store other aspects of the game. It just reminds me of someone who wants a mcrib sandwich when they are not in season from Mc Donald's. 'well you had them 6 months ago I want one now' really?! Amazing how a couple dozen people on this forum pushing an agenda will claim hundreds of thousands of players want this. They continue to exaggerate how easy the game is while telling the rest of us we are selfish when they are guilty of the same thing. I don't want it because it's not needed. I would rather they fix bugs like the block bug or ranged bug. I would rather they work on making companions AI better or improve the drop rate on leads or any number of things that will improve the game for everyone, NOT a small minority of players who think they are playing a action game as opposed to a STORY game. Role Playing Game not Mortal Combat.

wow released numbers many years ago, during cata launch on ghostcrawlers(a dev) blog. showing that over half of players only did solo content. add in that they added LFR(super easy raid mode) down the road and its become the most popular version(and most hated by 'hardcore' players) of raiding for the general playerbase and i'd say that people actually want the opposite that some people on here are claiming.

Alurria

Dagre2 wrote: »

Alurria wrote: »

I particularly love it when they say 'but they already had instance before one tramiel' well guess what those resources have been realocated. That particular partition is gone one to store other aspects of the game. It just reminds me of someone who wants a mcrib sandwich when they are not in season from Mc Donald's. 'well you had them 6 months ago I want one now' really?! Amazing how a couple dozen people on this forum pushing an agenda will claim hundreds of thousands of players want this. They continue to exaggerate how easy the game is while telling the rest of us we are selfish when they are guilty of the same thing. I don't want it because it's not needed. I would rather they fix bugs like the block bug or ranged bug. I would rather they work on making companions AI better or improve the drop rate on leads or any number of things that will improve the game for everyone, NOT a small minority of players who think they are playing a action game as opposed to a STORY game. Role Playing Game not Mortal Combat.

wow released numbers many years ago, during cata launch on ghostcrawlers(a dev) blog. showing that over half of players only did solo content. add in that they added LFR(super easy raid mode) down the road and its become the most popular version of raiding for the general playerbase and i'd say that people actually want the opposite that some people on here are claiming.

I know who Ghostcrawler is and I never like him, he changed and nerfed a lot in wow. Guess what this game isn't? Yeah this is not WoW so why bring that into the equation. I left wow for this game because of the nerfs and guess who lead the pack in nerfs ghostcrawler. THIS is NOT WoW